VESC 6.0 Update

chuttney1

100 W
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
243
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Taken from electric-skateboard.builders/t/vedders-vesc-6-0/3813/134

[youtube]1iwN5LGGM80[/youtube]


From user JTAG on electric-skateboard builders, "Qoute from the VESC godfather himself:
"Hopefully everything will be ready in the first quarter of 2017, including reliable and well-tested hardware. I will try to arrange beta testing this year, because that will be very helpful. With the release of the VESC6 I want to decrease the failure rate to a minimum and offer warranty for the hardware by default, while making all software much easier to use. It should also become easier to make contributions to the code with a better structure and clear procedures and guidelines. I also want to set up a solid framework for the VESC open source project, which does not really exist now."

This is almost ready everyone. Get ready for an increase in reliability rate with GUI update and plenty of fixes in firmware for VESC.
 
Taken from Vedder's forum

I understand that waiting is frustrating, but I'm really trying my best with everything. Currently I'm also working on a website dedicated for the VESC project where I'm putting all the information about the plans of the project:

http://vesc-project.com/

If you don't log in it is empty, but there is a lot of content already including forums and other structure that will become visible once I enable registrations. The website is made with drupal and it was quite a learning curve to go through drupal 8, get stuck, go back to drupal 7, installing 170 modules and all drupal admin tools, making automatic backup scripts of the site and databases.

Firmware

Regarding all the software, I'm trying to make the firmware as portable as possible to make it run on almost any hardware by creating a hardware configuration file so that more VESC-compatible hardware can be made. 99% if the work and value of the VESC really is the software, and the hardware just is a fraction of that work. Everyone who makes ESCs today could make VESC-compatible hardware, so there is huge potential for getting a big variety of power levels and form factors of the VESC if the software can manage it - and this is what I'm trying to achieve. Half a year ago my ambitions were far from this high, but that has changed.

VESC Tool

VESC Tool has also been a huge amount of work, and last year when I said that I will release some the new firmware I had not even started working on VESC Tool. Now it has close to 200 files of source code, everything is modular so that development is easier and more people can get involved. Also, the core functionality with the configuration abstraction and communication interfaces can be built without widgets to make a mobile version from the same code base possible - which is the next plan. I have also set up build scripts to make a statically linked version that runs on every linux distro, and the same script also makes a windows build using mxe. The builds of VESC Tool include firmware for all the supported hardwares, and when connecting VESC Tool will figure out which hardware is connected to minimize the risk of mistakes. I have also made setup wizards for the motor and input in VESC Tool, and let friends try them while taking note where they get stuck and fixed that.

VESC 6 hardware and Trampaboards

As I have mentioned the software is really the big challenge, but I have also been working together with trampaboards to get the VESC6 hardware ready. I have been doing the PCB and Frank from trampa has made the case and a rubber seal for the case and cables. I have visited Frank in Berlin many times recently (and he has visited me) and we sat together and worked on the design. A week ago Frank visited Taiwan to talk with manufacturers, and soon when I can find a time to take a week off from my job we will try to visit them together for starting the production.

I must say that trampa have much more experience than me in general about how to manufacture products, bring them to market, deal with production, deal with regulations etc, and I have no idea about many of these things. We also tried to figure out how to make an income from the project while keeping it open and how to make solid foundation. The trademark is one of those things and helps people identifying me and my work (every major open project such as Linux, Mozilla, Gnome have trademarks), and I had no idea about that. My relation with trampa is that I run the VESC Project and trademarks in my name and they will make and sell the "original" hardware that we design together and share the profits. The VESC hardware will not generate a lot of profit after covering all costs (including some of the prototyping and trademark costs that tramps has taken for now since I don't have a lot of money), but hopefully it will be enough to buy some new equipment and parts for further development. I'm hoping that involving other manufacturers and getting a big variety of hardware to the market eventually will bring a bit of income though. How to structure this and how it will work is something that I'm putting together on the website, so I will not go into detail here.

Release of recent developments

I see many speculations, and I understand why. I do not have any contract with tramps or anything like that which prevents me from releasing things, I just want to polish things more and set up a structure because I cannot deal with the input from everyone at the same time. Releasing everything now or a few months ago would have caused more chaos than I already have, and I simply cannot handle that by myself right now. There are a couple of reasons for that:

* I haven't finished the structure with how to support all hardware yet. Many times I have gone through all hardware files and done refactoring as I'm adding new options such as DRV8301 support, DRV8313 support, support for all combinations of 2 and three low-side, phase and high-side shunts, permanent nrf support, support for sampling in V0 and V7 for phase shunts when running FOC etc. Having other people work on their hardware and brake things for them all the time would just give me more stress at this point, and it would frustrate them as well since I wouldn't be able to help them too much. That's why I want to have a lot more structure about coding style, hardware configs, how to contribute, development etc before releasing everything and diving into more chaos.

* There are already several people I'm working with regarding the new developments, and they give me feedback. There is also more hardware than just the VESC 6 hardware in development (for example, one of them is a custom small controller from danish aviation systems) which is very different from the VESC 6.

* The new firmware and VESC Tool had many regressions at first that broke things, and fixing them has also taken some effort. Several people with VESC 4 and VESC 6 help me test this already with the new firmware and VESC Tool.

* The structure in VESC Tool has also changed forth and back with refactoring before I was happy with it.

After this major restructuring of the project I plan to work with everything public on github so that others can contribute and not go and hide with the software for months, but for now I ask everyone to be patient. All of this work, all the emails and posts I haven't answered, my full time job and everything going on recently has given me a lot of stress. Please be patient. I promise, there will be huge updates for sure.

VESC6 Beta Program

I have promised things several times and not lived up to it, but that is mostly because my ambition changed and I wanted to take things further. Anyway, as I mentioned, trampaboards and me have made a lot of progress on the design and in around a week or two we want to order the first beta batch of VESC6. I will make a separate post about this and send some emails to people I know are interested, but now we are looking for people who are interested in giving the VESC6 a try. This beta batch will be more expensive to manufacture than the final version because of quantity, and we are selling them for a lower price, so there is no warranty and things will not be as polished as the final version, but it will be orders of magnitude better than everything that is around with the VESC4 today. In this batch you will get:

* A ready-assembled VESC6 in an aluminium case with cover and cables.

* VESC-Tool with the latest firmware and features.

* For now the VESCs will be shipped without a rubber seal for the cables and cover since the mold for it takes more time, but once it is ready we will ship it to you.

The price for this beta VESC is 175 GPB. If you are interested send me an email, and once we have set it up on the trampasite I will send you a link with a code where you can make the order and enter your shipping details. Please let me know as fast as possible, because we will try to place the order within one week. After that it should take around two weeks until the VESCs are manufactured and then we will ship them.

The final release

After making this beta order I will finish the vesc-project website and enter all information about the plans for the project, how to contribute and so on while getting feedback from the beta testers. Then the final release of the firmware source code, the VESC Tool source code, a new reference design similar to the VESC6, and a readily-compiled VESC Tool for Linux and Windows including support for the VESC4 will be made at the same time as the new VESC6 hardware becomes available for purchase. Then the VESC6 production will require much less attention by me since trampa handles that, and I can focus on helping others who are interested in making vesc-project-supported hardware in different form factors get started. This release will be around one month after everyone who has ordered beta VESCs has received them and has started testing them.


This is a long post, but I hope that it makes things a bit more clear. Thanks for supporting me, and sorry for being so bad at communication. When I have less stress I will do my best to interact more with the community, but for now I ask everyone to be patient.
 
VESC 6 Beta testers wanted now.

Postby Trampa » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:18 pm
Hi into the Endless shere!

We are currently looking fore some more BETA testers for the new official VESC 6.4.
Its time to get the beast out to you guys. This is the official VESC 6.4 by Trampa and Benjamin Vedder!
Originally we wanted to limit the total beta group to 50. Now we ordered some more to fulfill min. quantities for some parts.
We will do a very attractive price for the beta testers.

If you didn't follow the latest news, here is an update what has happened:

http://vedder.se/forums/viewtopic.php?f ... =280#p3544

You may also want to visit Benjamins video channel on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/BenjaminsRobotics

How do I register?

Just send me a PM with your name and mail + quantity (1or 2)
I will drop you on a list and will get back to you via mail.

Please also register at www.trampaboards.com you will need to purchase from there.

The price for BETA II will be announced tomorrow.

Frank from Trampa
 
Hi everyone,
Ted and I just did the maths for the extended Beta VESCs.
We can offer you a twin set @ 195GPBP per VESC 6.
A single is 220GBP per VESC 6 at his stage.

We really would like to be able to sell it cheaper but we also want to offer the you the real deal quality wise.
This is the best deal we can strike at the moment.

The first Beta testers got a 175 GBP deal, which was a miscalculation from our side. So everyone who purchased a BETA VESC 6 earlier was very very lucky.

Beta Testers are welcome and should send me a PM wit name, mail and quantity required.

Frank
 
This is the last call for BEAT II. We will close the list in 24 hours.
Anyone interested should send me a PM with name and email. I'll drop you on the BETA II list.

Price is 195 GBp per vesc for two
220 GBP for a single.
prices include Britisch VAT, which is not applicable if you purchase from outside Europe.

Frank
 
The beta and discount is over you can purchase directly from trampa

http://www.trampaboards.com
 
silviasol said:
$300! Where are the gerber files and bom? I can make my own.

Nothing is release yet for VESC 6.0. A lot of drama went down about how Trampa has first grabs, but most of it was Vedder's decision. So yeah, the Beta phase is over and we're all just waiting for the release.
 
I 100% support Ben not releasing gerber files to keep it away from greedy chinese jerk companies and wanabee's using cheap chinese factories hoarding out a bunch of disposable vesc's like the crap that came out with vesc 4.0# era. The motor controllers and other memory chip are all going to be fake coming out of china. Now with these more expensive surface mount fet's what will they come up with? Probably why trampa has them for $300, they had to go with a legit manufacturer to make them.
What would be really cool is if Ben would sell just the bare boards. That would be really cool for us DIYers who can solder it ourselves and save $200+ and keep his project to himself, he deserves the money for all the work put into it.
 
Hi,

Back to technical Questions

- Does the VESC6 have a onboard antispark-protection (if so does it have remote on/off pins ?)
- how many Farad do the capacitators have ?


and now some other Questions again:

- when/will? the new bldc-tool software be free for downloading, will it be compatible to the "old" vescs ?
- will the price of the VESC dop anyhow soon or will it stay around 300€ per pcs ?

greets

Gernot
 
notger said:
Hi,

Back to technical Questions

- Does the VESC6 have a onboard antispark-protection (if so does it have remote on/off pins ?)
- how many Farad do the capacitators have ?


and now some other Questions again:

- when/will? the new bldc-tool software be free for downloading, will it be compatible to the "old" vescs ?
- will the price of the VESC dop anyhow soon or will it stay around 300€ per pcs ?

greets

Gernot

To answer your questions.
1. Not much has been stated about an anti-spark circuit integrated into VESC 6.0, still waiting for updated information. I believe it does not have an anti-spark circuit.
2. About 2000 μF is fine though not stated. This hasn't changed from those who make it using 3 capacitors, but more so providing a buffer to incoming current rush to VESC associated with long wires from the battery.
3. New VESC software is compatible with the old VESC from testers posting on electric-skateboard.builders
4.Pricing is supposed to drop as more people produce it, but there are features that will probably not be needed if you make your own.
 
chuttney1 said:
1. Not much has been stated about an anti-spark circuit integrated into VESC 6.0, still waiting for updated information. I believe it does not have an anti-spark circuit.
2. About 2000 μF is fine though not stated. This hasn't changed from those who make it using 3 capacitors, but more so providing a buffer to incoming current rush to VESC associated with long wires from the battery.
3. New VESC software is compatible with the old VESC from testers posting on electric-skateboard.builders
4.Pricing is supposed to drop as more people produce it, but there are features that will probably not be needed if you make your own.

Whow thanks, some new questions came up for me:

to 1: is the any helpful site where all the new features/changes of the VESC6 are listed ?

to 2: i think i read the VESC6 is rated 60A continuous so lets say with 10s around 2500Watt cont. is there a rule of thumbs about the precharge-caps (expl.: 2000Watts cont =best= 2000uF) or is there a upper limit of uF wich is totally useless (expl.: 5000uF ?) (i guess that question also applies to the old VESCS and other ESCS)

to3: i think Trampa-Frank told me that the new bldc-tool is not published now cause its sill in beta state, on the other side i read that beta-testing is finished ? so is there any release alredy for us old VESC-owners ? cuase right now just people who buy from Trampa get access to the VESC-project.com website.

to4: thats also something that is not clear to me: Trampa or Vedder made a trademark out of "VESC", ???but that does not mean that new developements are "closed-source" (Probably not "totally" open anymore i guess)

greets

and thanks

Gernot
 
notger said:
to 2: i think i read the VESC6 is rated 60A continuous so lets say with 10s around 2500Watt cont. is there a rule of thumbs about the precharge-caps (expl.: 2000Watts cont =best= 2000uF) or is there a upper limit of uF wich is totally useless (expl.: 5000uF ?) (i guess that question also applies to the old VESCS and other ESCS)

It depends on the length and gauge of the supply lines coming from the battery. The lower the inductance, the better it is.
For the caps: the more the better :)
optimal would be a combination of low ESR electrolytic caps with ceramic (X5R, X7R types) for the high frequency filtering.

about te antispark: i don't know if it has it or not, but for this application the XT90s connectors should work well.
 
madin88 said:
about te antispark: i don't know if it has it or not, but for this application the XT90s connectors should work well.

ah madin88 did not know that you are into e-skateboarding too, or are you thinking on using them in e-bike-setups ?

Sure the XT90s take quite some "sparkling" but I'm alos thinking about potential damage on the VESCs electronics.


And another Question: (sry)

Any Idea if there are (major) changes on the VESC if its finally released ?
cause I'm allready thinking of looking vor used VESC6 but not sure if i wanna buy beta stage VESCs wich might bet major improvements in a few weeks/month ??

greets notger
 
notger said:
ah madin88 did not know that you are into e-skateboarding too, or are you thinking on using them in e-bike-setups ?

Sure the XT90s take quite some "sparkling" but I'm alos thinking about potential damage on the VESCs electronics.

Yes i was looking at the vesc 6 for e-bike applicatoins. The FOC with high torque at take off in sensorless mode, and all it's other features awaken interest to me :)

If you do not like the XT90s, you could build your own antispark circuit (with on/off switch) or look for buyable things like this:

https://lunacycle.com/remote-on-off-solid-state-switch/
 
madin88 said:
If you do not like the XT90s, you could build your own antispark circuit (with on/off switch) or look for buyable things like this:

Don't missunderstand me, i like and use the XT90s alot, i just think and read that a "slow" precharge is more healty (for ESCS electronic and probably alos the caps) than a sparky precharge with plugs that can stand that. ??? am i wrong at that point.

and i already use a compareable precharge PCB (two of vedders antispark PCB in parallel), but installing those is always a pain in the ass spacewise, cause if its needed i think it should be implemented in the ESCs anyway so we do not habe to add another think between battery and ESC.
 
notger said:
Don't missunderstand me, i like and use the XT90s alot, i just think and read that a "slow" precharge is more healty (for ESCS electronic and probably alos the caps) than a sparky precharge with plugs that can stand that. ??? am i wrong at that point

a slow precharge is exactly what the inbuilt resistor does. thats why they called XT90s antispark ;)
 
madin88 said:
a slow precharge is exactly what the inbuilt resistor does. thats why they called XT90s antispark ;)

Shame on me, i just found out about the "real" XT90s antispark with the inbuilt resistors.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=63210#p1048110

i always thought they call them antispark, cuase their bullet tips take the sparks quite well.
I was not aware that they precharge !!!!

thanks for that insight !!!

gernot
 
When the Gerber Files are released, i will order PCBs from pcbway.com and offer them here and on ebay at my cost.
 
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