1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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mistercrash   10 kW

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by mistercrash » Aug 30 2017 10:09am

No need to remove the pin from the swing arm to remove the wheel.
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EddySPalm   10 W

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Aug 30 2017 12:14pm

SlowCo wrote:If you want to slide the wheel into the swing arm dropouts surely the pin should be bolted to the swing arm afterwards and removable to be able to get the wheel assembly out later?
I think a little clever dimensioning can accommodate for inserting the motor at a slight angle, but I sure have to make sure :D

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Aug 31 2017 2:44am

Got to work a few hours on the scoot last night. Battery pack is so close to being completely welded, and the controller room is turning out great! The plywood is ready to be laquered and eventually get some holes drilled/have some threaded inserts inserted, for mounting of the controller :D Also took some more measurements of motor and brake assembly so I can continue modelling on the swingarm.
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EddySPalm   10 W

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Aug 31 2017 8:59am

As I approach finalizing my battery pack I am going to need a charger! Can anyone please recommend me a 10-20A charger, preferably with adjustable voltage?

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wineboyrider   100 MW

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by wineboyrider » Sep 01 2017 10:50pm

Meanwell HLG series.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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EddySPalm   10 W

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Sep 04 2017 2:41am

LED driver, interesting!! I can't find any in the HLG series that supplies more than 50-something volts though, maybe I should look through another series?

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wineboyrider   100 MW

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by wineboyrider » Sep 04 2017 9:40am

http://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/ ... d=hlg-600h
Use them in series for higher voltage.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by wineboyrider » Sep 04 2017 9:41am

I actually use 2 24v meanwells to charge 12s lipo at 10.8 amps .
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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marcexec   1 kW

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by marcexec » Sep 06 2017 3:47am

I'm using 2x USP-500-48 (PFC).
Note that they need a current limiting circuit or will break.
Last edited by marcexec on Sep 07 2017 4:20am, edited 1 time in total.
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whereswally606   100 kW

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by whereswally606 » Sep 07 2017 1:50am

I like the Minghe bst dcdc, they do up to 80v and 15A. Are current limited and have a digital screen for £15 you need a DC power supply then to supply it. There are even 20a,30a and 50a dcdc with current limiting which are fairly cheap but they don't have a display so you need a separate volt and ammeter to set them up via the trim pots. I like the idea that you can carry an emergency power supply (a light one) but have the beefy ones either end of your commute. Stash a few at friends houses. I'd other server power supplies.

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EddySPalm   10 W

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Sep 07 2017 3:28am

wineboyrider wrote:Good tip
marcexec wrote:Good tip
whereswally606 wrote:Yet another good tip
Thank you, I'll look into this too. I was hoping to find something IP67/68 rated, as it will be mounted inside the left rear "bubble" of the chassis (I'm out of room underneath the seat).

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marcexec   1 kW

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by marcexec » Sep 07 2017 4:26am

EddySPalm wrote:I just paid my way out of any fiddly brake set-ups: Found a company who sells hydraulic conversion brake pedal especially made for my Vespa! Includes a cast aluminium brake pedal with brake switch and master cylinder. All I need now is to run my brake hose back to the disc brake.

Image
Eddy, as I just went through this myself, you might want to consider triggering regen only from the rear brake. I solved this with a Schottky diode.
Let me know if you'd like a diagram.
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
All the gear, all the time!

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EddySPalm   10 W

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Sep 07 2017 5:17am

marcexec wrote:
EddySPalm wrote:I just paid my way out of any fiddly brake set-ups: Found a company who sells hydraulic conversion brake pedal especially made for my Vespa! Includes a cast aluminium brake pedal with brake switch and master cylinder. All I need now is to run my brake hose back to the disc brake.

Image
Eddy, as I just went through this myself, you might want to consider triggering regen only from the rear brake. I solved this with a Schottky diode.
Let me know if you'd like a diagram.
Hey, thanks markexec! I was acutally thinking of using the "activate regen upon throttle release" function to begin with. Do you have any pros and/or cons with regards to this? I can only image what the different options will be like, as I've yet to try any of them...

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EddySPalm   10 W

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Sep 07 2017 5:20am

My rear brake is hereby converted:
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I finally have a tire for my motor:
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2017-09-07 12.03.01.jpg
And I officially have a 60V battery pack (welding all done):
2017-09-06 21.24.50.jpg
Slow and steady wins the race 8)

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marcexec   1 kW

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by marcexec » Sep 08 2017 5:09am

Shiny equipment there mate. :D

My thinking is that I want to be able to control the rear brake independently from the front, thus the disconnect.
With the weight in the hub (potential) rear braking force will be stronger than before, so I want strong regen to help the smaller rear caliper. See my thread for some pics.
As mentioned, the cable throttle on the clutch lever might be used to adjust. The Kelly has a few options to play with.

I don't think I'd want much "engine braking" on throttle release, coasting is more efficient. I can always "kick it off" with a light press on the rear brake. Added benefit is that the brake lights light up on regen for safety.

Hope that makes sense :)
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
All the gear, all the time!

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EddySPalm   10 W

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Sep 12 2017 7:03am

marcexec wrote:Shiny equipment there mate. :D

My thinking is that I want to be able to control the rear brake independently from the front, thus the disconnect.
With the weight in the hub (potential) rear braking force will be stronger than before, so I want strong regen to help the smaller rear caliper. See my thread for some pics.
As mentioned, the cable throttle on the clutch lever might be used to adjust. The Kelly has a few options to play with.

I don't think I'd want much "engine braking" on throttle release, coasting is more efficient. I can always "kick it off" with a light press on the rear brake. Added benefit is that the brake lights light up on regen for safety.

Hope that makes sense :)
Wait, are you saying the enormous rear brake that came with the motor might not be sufficient? It's like 10" in diameter :O

Yeah, I like the idea of using the cable lever as a "3rd" brake, that would be incredibly cool. I just bought a cable operated 0-5V hall effect sensor (for the throttle), maybe I should have gone for two...

I wish this all made a little more sense than it does at the moment, you're saying you want to control the rear brake independently of the front. Did you have one common pedal for front and rear? Sorry that I haven't pressed your links yet, maybe if I read through yopur posts I would have understood more.

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wineboyrider   100 MW

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by wineboyrider » Sep 12 2017 7:19am

Are you going to use regen?
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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EddySPalm   10 W

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Sep 13 2017 1:15pm

wineboyrider wrote:Are you going to use regen?
Yes, in one way or another...

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marcexec   1 kW

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by marcexec » Sep 13 2017 4:14pm

EddySPalm wrote:[..]
I wish this all made a little more sense than it does at the moment, you're saying you want to control the rear brake independently of the front. Did you have one common pedal for front and rear? Sorry that I haven't pressed your links yet, maybe if I read through yopur posts I would have understood more.
No, I just want to have to have control, i.e. no regen on the rear wheel when I press the front brake.
Keep in mind that the regen is electrically activated from the 12V circuit, i.e. the brake light, thus the diode.
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
All the gear, all the time!

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EddySPalm   10 W

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Sep 14 2017 5:47am

marcexec wrote: Keep in mind that the regen is electrically activated from the 12V circuit, i.e. the brake light, thus the diode.
The wiring diagram for KEB72601 says different? It says to use 5V from the controllers' 5V output. I'm not branching in on my 12V (or actually 6V) system anywhere except that everything 12V will be powered from 60V-12V DC-DC converter.

For the record I will be converting the 6V system to 12V now that the scooter no longer has its old ignition system any longer.

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marcexec   1 kW

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by marcexec » Sep 14 2017 8:59am

Kellys work best fully isolated, so I'm using a relay to trigger the 5V from the 12V brake input.
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
All the gear, all the time!

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EddySPalm   10 W

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Sep 14 2017 1:05pm

marcexec wrote:Kellys work best fully isolated, so I'm using a relay to trigger the 5V from the 12V brake input.
Sounds like a very good solution for you! I was planning on using a separate switch, as I have so much room to fit it around the brake pedal :) Thanks for your input! I do appreciate it, it's just that sometimes my knowledge just doesn't cut it :lol:

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EddySPalm   10 W

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Sep 20 2017 2:39pm

- Cable actuated throttle came in, and looking good! With some soldering I should actually be able to use a standard Vespa throttle cable on this one.
- "Ignition" switch came in. Now sadly I have to find out where to drill a hole through my lovely untouched Vespa. I could make it work with a bolted bracket somewhere under the seat though, but would it be as slick?
- charger on its way. Opted for a Supower 8A (67.2) one.
- Found a good solution for mounting the cycle analyst. Pictures to come once its done.
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marcexec   1 kW

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by marcexec » Sep 20 2017 5:10pm

Glad that what I found works out for you!
One note on the connectors, I use the waterproof ones liberally (on the car as well). I think they are Tyco knockoffs. 15 sets are less than $7.
Flat pliers work, but long term you'd want a crimp tool, I have something similar to these.
Edit: in 1 and 2 pins as well, of course.
Instructions:
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
All the gear, all the time!

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EddySPalm   10 W

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Re: 1970 Vespa 50s electrification project

Post by EddySPalm » Sep 21 2017 3:18pm

marcexec wrote:Glad that what I found works out for you!
Me too! And I completely forgot to thank you :roll:

It looks like a really solid piece of kit. the casing is cool; injection molded with no respect to wall thicknesses whatsoever, still not a single sink mark or warp. What material might this be?

Today I sourced the rest of the materials I need for the swingarm, and it's all free up until now. I will get one of the machnists at work to cut and machine the stock, with the exception of the part where the square section meets the tube, I gotta go to a friends' shop for that one. That same friend will tack it together for me while I'm there to double check the fit, and then finally I will take the tack welded assembly for final welding at yet another machine shop. That's how it's gotta be when the skills and machines you need to complete the job is not all together :lol:

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