LightningRods mid drive kit
- Thread starter spinningmagnets
- Start date
gman1971
10 kW
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2015
- Messages
- 976
Ddt said:
Please, for respect to LR's thread, any Cyclone questions you should probably be posted @ the Cyclone thread, or you can always PM me.
To answer the Q:
I don't know the information but I can probably ask some people to find out. In the meantime, although not an answer, this Youtube member owns and runs the motor on his fat eBike: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi-s0UEt-yqJTWlwAUQ8Abw/videos
G.
I may have pushed the small block too hard on my mountain trek last weekend. When I opened the motor to replace the halls, I noticed some burnt windings. How bad does this look to you all? Should I just hit it with some high temp laquer? I think I may need the big block.
LightningRods
1 MW
I'm finishing up the orders from the busy season in North America and Europe. I plan to get into working with the new motors once things slow down. I'm looking at several motors.
Here is what I'm working on right now. This is an 11 gauge stainless steel sprocket with stainless steel spacers that have the Shimano freehub spline cut in their center. The assembly bolts onto a standard Shimano freehub. This is for users who want to run more power than a bicycle sprocket can handle. A 1/2" x 1/4" single run chain will run on these .1196" thick sprockets. Run with the single stage drives this 48t sprocket creates a two stage reduction. If you run a 20s battery you should have a top speed of over 40 mph.
The number of spacers that are put on the inside and outside of the sprocket can be swapped to align the rear sprocket with the chainwheel.
For people who prefer a thread on flanged freewheel like an ACS or White Industries I also make sprockets with the five bolt freewheel pattern.
Here is what I'm working on right now. This is an 11 gauge stainless steel sprocket with stainless steel spacers that have the Shimano freehub spline cut in their center. The assembly bolts onto a standard Shimano freehub. This is for users who want to run more power than a bicycle sprocket can handle. A 1/2" x 1/4" single run chain will run on these .1196" thick sprockets. Run with the single stage drives this 48t sprocket creates a two stage reduction. If you run a 20s battery you should have a top speed of over 40 mph.
The number of spacers that are put on the inside and outside of the sprocket can be swapped to align the rear sprocket with the chainwheel.
For people who prefer a thread on flanged freewheel like an ACS or White Industries I also make sprockets with the five bolt freewheel pattern.
gman1971
10 kW
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2015
- Messages
- 976
Hey Mike, could you make that in 50T to be used like the Wolftooth 49T? except in steel? I would be willing to purchase a couple of those.
Thanks.
G.
Thanks.
G.
LightningRods said:I'm finishing up the orders from the busy season in North America and Europe. I plan to get into working with the new motors once things slow down. I'm looking at several motors.
Here is what I'm working on right now. This is an 11 gauge stainless steel sprocket with stainless steel spacers that have the Shimano freehub spline cut in their center. The assembly bolts onto a standard Shimano freehub. This is for users who want to run more power than a bicycle sprocket can handle. A 1/2" x 1/4" single run chain will run on these .1196" thick sprockets. Run with the single stage drives this 48t sprocket creates a two stage reduction. If you run a 20s battery you should have a top speed of over 40 mph.
The number of spacers that are put on the inside and outside of the sprocket can be swapped to align the rear sprocket with the chainwheel.
For people who prefer a thread on flanged freewheel like an ACS or White Industries I also make sprockets with the five bolt freewheel pattern.
izeman
1 GW
nice parts mike, but i would suggest using bolts instead of screws to minimize play and have an more exact fit. screws are not made to transfer shearing force.
LightningRods
1 MW
Excellent suggestion. These are grade 1O.9 M5 socket flat head bolts.
izeman
1 GW
the screws probably will hold just fine. for a prototype it's ok. if you go in "mass" production you still can change itLightningRods said:
i'd change it to the type of bolts they use on the crank to fix the gears. bolts just a tiny bit shorter than the parts they need to clamp, an inner thread and flat head screws.
speedmd
10 MW
All you need is a few dowel pins that go through the entire stack minus the furthest inner plate which can have just a c-bore. The cassette outer locking nut can keep them in place. Keep the toys coming! cheers
LightningRods
1 MW
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm glad that there is some interest in this design.
izeman
1 GW
sure. this is great. while looking at the pictures again i noticed that it would make sense to change the single discs for a single thick one. why? as the slots don't line up exactly, they won't evenly put stress on the hub.LightningRods said:
LightningRods
1 MW
The problem is the manufacturing process. How are you going to cut a perfectly straight splined bore that's 25mm deep? Laser or water jet is not straight or clean at that depth. Plus the stacked spacers allow side to side alignment with the chainwheel.
speedmd
10 MW
You could extrude it. You would still need to broach it if you wanted a precise fit. Your design is a perfect part for a stamping. They could knock them out for pennies.
LightningRods
1 MW
That's true. I always expect the tooling on broaching and extruding to be prohibitive. Maybe it's not. I'll see what I can find out.
I also thought about sand casting but I'm not sure the spline would be accurate enough. Die casting would be good but I know the dies are pricey.
I'm waffling on whether the spacers need to be stainless steel or not. Stainless laser cuts better than aluminum and is stronger but heavier and harder to countersink for the flatheads. There is so much surface area I'm thinking that aluminum is probably strong enough.
I also thought about sand casting but I'm not sure the spline would be accurate enough. Die casting would be good but I know the dies are pricey.
I'm waffling on whether the spacers need to be stainless steel or not. Stainless laser cuts better than aluminum and is stronger but heavier and harder to countersink for the flatheads. There is so much surface area I'm thinking that aluminum is probably strong enough.
ions82
100 W
LightningRods said:
I also think aluminum would be strong enough since there is a stack of spacers all bolted together. If you go with Al, you might want to get them anodized in case the
end user puts them on a bare aluminum cassette body (as to prevent galling of like materials.) Then again, a thin layer of grease upon install would probably work just as well. Maybe cut the spacers out of 7075. That's some strong stuff.
If one were using a hub with a steel cassette body, do you think that the cog with just regular (round ID) spacers being pressed by the lock ring would be sufficient? Or, would the force of the drive system just spin the cog on the cassette body (shearing either the cog teeth or the CB)?
LightningRods
1 MW
I'm sure that other people will have different opinions but I'd like to spread the force that the sprocket places on the freehub over the widest possible area. I've seen steel sprockets cut into steel freehubs before. And that's with 8 or more thin sprockets all sharing the load. One sprocket would be even more prone to mauling the splines on the freehub.
I found an aluminum extrusion company that looks pretty great. I'm going to contact them and see what the price point would be on going with anodized, extruded aluminum.
I found an aluminum extrusion company that looks pretty great. I'm going to contact them and see what the price point would be on going with anodized, extruded aluminum.
speedmd
10 MW
You would buy lengths of raw custom extrusion. 6061T6 or T651. Die could run 1 -1.5K with a initial trial run of few pounds of material. The variability in extrusion would prevent you from having a good snug reliable fit on the spline unfortunately unless you get real lucky on it. You would need to saw it, or part it on a lathe into shims of what ever thickness you wish, machine any details, Broach the center, de-burr - tumble them and then anodize them. You could look for stock thick walled tube extrusions shapes that you could machine- broach center detail into. Either way the custom center broach - op will be pricey. You could get a slightly sloppy but workable fit with the raw extrusion if you allow for a bit of clearance (.008 -.012 inches). My experience with them, if shooting for anything within .005 on this size part, will get into tight fit issues over a run of product in most cases.
If you go with thin shims only, you could punch them out also. Punching is reasonably good at holding dimensions from some vendors so you may be able to eliminate broaching on the thinner shims. Only worry is the burr on the far side of the punch direction, which may be a stacking concern and need additional finishing.
If you go with thin shims only, you could punch them out also. Punching is reasonably good at holding dimensions from some vendors so you may be able to eliminate broaching on the thinner shims. Only worry is the burr on the far side of the punch direction, which may be a stacking concern and need additional finishing.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Mike,
With all the work and cost that would be needed to make those parts work with a shimano freehub body,
Perhaps just design your own freehub body/ with help of others here on E.S. if need be , to made out of steel , with larger splines / larger spline inerface with the spacers.
You might not even then need spacers, design the parts so as to not have to have all those individual spacers ?
Wouldn't that be much stronger anyway ?
Using the working part of the Shimano Freehub , just making / designing your own outer body.
( You could even go as far as to make a stronger set of cogs as well in the future so that the more powerful motors can still use multiple
cogs on the back , for those of us that live in areas of hills and even mountains that have multiple degrees of slope.
With all the work and cost that would be needed to make those parts work with a shimano freehub body,
Perhaps just design your own freehub body/ with help of others here on E.S. if need be , to made out of steel , with larger splines / larger spline inerface with the spacers.
You might not even then need spacers, design the parts so as to not have to have all those individual spacers ?
Wouldn't that be much stronger anyway ?
Using the working part of the Shimano Freehub , just making / designing your own outer body.
( You could even go as far as to make a stronger set of cogs as well in the future so that the more powerful motors can still use multiple
cogs on the back , for those of us that live in areas of hills and even mountains that have multiple degrees of slope.
zlagger
10 W
Hey Mike, I can machine you some. Send me a drawing of what you want.
LightningRods said:
Ecyclist
1 kW
izeman
1 GW
whatever you call them in english. in german a bolt has no thread. a screw does.
and no i didn't think about shoulder bolts, but it would work as well of course.
i was talking about a unthreaded bolt on the outside but with an inner thread. that way you have a solid surface over the whole distance that can transfer shear forces.
and no i didn't think about shoulder bolts, but it would work as well of course.
i was talking about a unthreaded bolt on the outside but with an inner thread. that way you have a solid surface over the whole distance that can transfer shear forces.
Ecyclist
1 kW
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John Bozi
100 kW
guys his sprocket and spacers are built tougher than any off the shelf bicycle component could ever withstand.
dt swiss is the toughest I found and ran and it also shat itself at the end. If I had to run the system again I still would run dt swiss for a fw. dont think there is tougher.
for those spacers if its stainless you want to cut the weight seriously... I ran stuff identical to Mike's design. If I had to get it recut it would be much more agressive for ss.
Its ridiculously tough and heavy.
If anyone wants my designs let me know.... pm
always trying to help the com.
dt swiss is the toughest I found and ran and it also shat itself at the end. If I had to run the system again I still would run dt swiss for a fw. dont think there is tougher.
for those spacers if its stainless you want to cut the weight seriously... I ran stuff identical to Mike's design. If I had to get it recut it would be much more agressive for ss.
Its ridiculously tough and heavy.
If anyone wants my designs let me know.... pm
always trying to help the com.
