2009 IZIP Express

[nomad85]

It doesn't take much space or time to put one together(I put mine together in my bedroom). If it were my money I would pick up a nine continents or ezee kit and the battery of your choice from ebikes.ca they have a warranty and a good rep, pop that on a steel frame you like and you should be good to go for about $1500, maybe a bit more or less. I would also get a torque arm from hipowercycles, thats the best one I have used. If you want more battery ping has good stuff, but it does require more patience, he has a 1 year warranty and does honor it.
http://ebikes.ca/store/store_nc.php

This would beat most complete bikes currently offered hands down. If you still go the ready to ride route let us know how it works
either way good luck!(not trying to pressure you or anything )

[Russell]

Jerome,

Do you presently own an ebike? If you do then what about it don't you like or would you like to see improved? I guess what I'm saying is I see you are looking at all kinds of ebikes but can't seem to settle on one or the other. Perhaps you need to list the attributes you absolutely want and those you desire and then see which ebikes offered for sale are the closest to meeting those parameters.

Personally I don’t think any pre-made bike would satisfy me. Due to low volume those bikes are almost always one-size-fits-all which invariably means the frame is a compromise. I can see not wanting to do a full custom build but you still might want to look at the kit approach. The big advantage imo to a kit is you can fit it to a bike which you already own and which you enjoy riding. A well designed kit can be installed quickly and easily or you can even have someone do it for you. You can also customize a kit so it’s just the way you want it, which is the route I took.


-R

[nomad85]

If you go back a bit he has a post about a complicated decision matrix, so I think he knows what he wants

[Russell]

If you go back a bit he has a post about a complicated decision matrix, so I think he knows what he wants

I dunno, he's posted about at least 5 ebikes that I know of and has settled on none so far


-R

[Jerome Daoust]

Jerome, Do you presently own an ebike? If you do then what about it don't you like or would you like to see improved? Perhaps you need to list the attributes you absolutely want and those you desire and then see which ebikes offered for sale are the closest to meeting those parameters.

Hi Russell,
I have a pair of eZee Quando II's.
I agree to establishing desired parameters: Comparative study.
I'm in no rush to buy, waiting to test ride an IZIP Express for myself, then will try other option if that fails to satify me.
I prefer to avoid kits at this time.
Thanks for thinking of me and trying to help.

[Russell]

Hi Russell,
I have a pair of eZee Quando II's.

Well I certainly can see why you are looking for something else

I agree to establishing desired parameters: Comparative study..

Geez Jerome, overthink stuff much? Just kidding, I tend to do the same thing only with pen and paper and not on a speadsheet. It certainly looks like you have the research well in hand!

I'm in no rush to buy, waiting to test ride an IZIP Express for myself, then will try other option if that fails to satify me.
I prefer to avoid kits at this time.

I look forward to seeing which bike you choose, and of course a very detailed test report on it

-R

[Jerome Daoust]

Exerpt from this bachelor thesis...

The Dolphin iZip express, best rated in the E-Bike test of the consumer
magazine “Kassensturz”, has been sold successfully in Switzerland for several years. Developer Dolphin
E-Bikes GmbH has now found a distribution partner in the USA. The E-Bike company iZip has agreed to
finance a redesign of the Dolphin iZip express. The aim of our Bachelor-Thesis was to design a fully
digital battery management system and motor controller unit.

So this ebike has been around in a previous form for a few years.

[Miles]

Yes.

[Jerome Daoust]

Dated August 29, 2008...
Rated ‘Very Good’ by ExtraEnergy. For the "Sport" category (For those who like it fast and sporty Pedelecs that are faster than 25km/h) they write...

ExtraEnergy tested five pedelecs in the ‘fast class’ and all of them received a commendation: Biketec S-Flyer, Heinzmann estelle Sport, IZIP Express, and BionX add-on kit PL2 50HL all received a ‘Very Good’ while the OHM Sport XS700 scored a ‘Good’.

Test Results for the category and Specific report on the Express

[Jerome Daoust]

Trying to get a status on where to get a test ride, I got this reply...

Unfortunately at this time we do not have this model available. It is still in the production phase and we do not have either size available for purchase. We anticipate having these bikes in-stock this summer and our website, http://www.izipusa.com , will indicate once they are available for purchase.

At the moment IZIP's webpage on the Express says "Available April 2009".

But I get the feeling dealers are gathering them prior to the official sale date, because of this reply I got on January 21 from TheSuperKids.com saying they have the bikes in boxes and ready for shipment.

[Jerome Daoust]

Today, I got a chance to talk with Larry Pizzi, president of Currie Technologies.
He is helping me arrange for a test ride soon.
That's nice of him to get out of his way to make this happen.

[Miles]

Today, I got a chance to talk with Larry Pizzi, president of Currie Technologies.
He is helping me arrange for a test ride soon.

I'm looking forward to your report.

[Jerome Daoust]

Thanks to Larry Pizzi (President of Curie Technologies) I got to test a pre-production bike today.
First a quote...

This bike is 1st designed for transportation, 2nd for recreation.

Weather conditions on March 7, 2009 in Santa Monica, California at 11am: 63 F, Sunny, light (< 5mph) SW wind.
A few impressions...

1. The pre-production bike I tested had the Currie Tech EVO drive which will be available in the Fall of 2009 (the hollow axle has a QR). Before that, it comes with Shimano's version (discontinued production) of the EVO drive and that axle does not have a QR.
2. The pre-production bike I tested had an analog controller which can create a "kickback" of the pedals, but this is being replaced by a digital controller that is currently holding up the availability of this model. The digital controller will offer more programming flexibility. All customers will get this new digital controller.
3. Tested the medium size and it felt like the right size for my 5'10" height.
4. Cruise speed. I was getting about 19 mph (GPS measured) with light-moderate pedal assistance. Average value from up/down wind runs.
5. Max burst speed: I was getting about 25 mph (GPS measured) with maximum pedal assistance and highest boost mode. Average value from up/down wind runs.
6. Noise level. Revealed to be noisier than a geared hub motor. I would rate it at the same level of noise as a 2008 Optibike 800Li (Gold motor).
7. Did not measure the grade (tested a steep one). It does climb hills nicely, thanks to its 750 W motor.
8. Disappointed with uneven power delivery: Motor power directly responds to pedal pressure, does not even it out around a pedal crank rotation. This is very obvious when starting from a stop or a low cadence. Girlfriend had a quick go on the bike and reported the same feeling.
9. In low gears with a solid push on pedals, the pedal crank spins without inducing a corresponding rear wheel rotation. It feels like a slip with loss of the rider's energy. This seems to disappear with higher gears or with a higher cadence, probably because of reduced torque sent to the rear wheel from the rider.
10. From the website I thought it had a suspension post, but there was none on the bike I rode. The seat on the bike was hard, and along with the lack of rear suspension, it gives a rigid (rough) ride.
11. Front suspension: I estimated the travel to be 1.5" (4 cm). One can adjust damping only (not sag or spring rate).
12. Front brake: The Avid BB7 is a mechanical disk brake.
13. Rear brake is rim type.
14. Overall bike construction seemed good.
15. With the lowest seat post height adjustment, I could have both my feet flat on the ground. I am 5'10".
16. No headlight or tail light in the USA but wiring is available for one under the motor. European models will use this for their front/rear lights.
17. Come with a rear rack.
18. Battery is easily removable. It can be locked onto the frame.
19. Good side stand.

For more details/comments see my ebike comparison Excel worksheet, by hovering your mouse pointer over the cells with red corners in the "Express" column (N).

Related discussion on TidalForce forum.

Again big thanks to Larry Pizzi and Curie Technologies for enabling this test ride and answering my questions,
Jerome

[Miles]

Jerome,

Thanks for that.

I'm surprised it's so noisy. Is the hub/differential contributing much to the noise?

I assume it's just belt drive from the motor to the hub/differential (no motor gearing)?

The smoothing of the output from the crank sensor does seem to be critical.... I'm planning to design a crank sensor system with help from friends in a mechatronics company and sorting this will be vital.....

[Jerome Daoust]

Is the hub/differential contributing much to the noise?
I assume it's just belt drive from the motor to the hub/differential (no motor gearing)?

I doubt the rear wheel hub/differential is contributing to the noise, which I think comes directly from the motor area.
I do not know if there is gearing between the motor and the belt.

[Reid Welch]

I got a floor glimpse of the Giant DX (?) ebike at Mack Cycle here in South Miami today.
I will go back and take some photos if they'll permit me to do that.

Lifting the front (hub motor) wheel and giving it a manual spin shows that it freewheels very nicely,
BUT, its freewheel is a ratchet and pawl and is very noisy when coasting: sounds as loud as the playing cards
we used to clothspin to our bike spokes when we were kids. I'd find that feature annoying, anti-stealth.

The bike is a whole lot of engineering despite the front hub motor. I don't know that it would like to be thrashed hard
off road, etc, and it looks so expensive (and it is pricey) that I'd be shy to leave it locked at a public bike rack;
it looks too nice to be left alone.

Next to the Giant was a Schwinn ebike, even more costly, about three grand.

I think I will stick with my bulletproof eZee wheeled 200 dollar steel cruiser bike;
it goes 20mph too, and does not turn heads toward thoughts of "I'm gonna steal that bike".

Pictures of these premium bikes to come here to this thread soon.
I know of no other bike shops in the area that carry any ebikes at all.

Somehow we need to get our LBSs interested in stocking ebikes, and affordable ones at that.
Kudos to Mack Cycle for at least taking the plunge and offering two high end ebikes, at least.

[donob08]

Miles
I'm not about to spend $3000 for an ebike, but I have to say I'm impressed. This epicyclic differential is the same technology used in the Toyota Prius Hybid. In that case they are combining gas engine and electric motor input. Here we're combining LEG engine and electric motor input.
For sure it's an effective way to use 2 sources of energy in each case. I guess I will have to wait for hi tech to become cheaper.

I have trouble wrapping my brain around what happens to the electric motor's torque contribution when the rider shifts the derailleur. Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differenti ... cal_device)#Epicyclic_differential has an interesting discussion of how Epicyclic_differentials work.

Some time when I'm bored I'm going to understand this.

Don

- The ratio between the motor and its input to the differential is fixed.

- The ratio between the pedals and their input to the differential can be varied by the derailleur gears.

- the sum outputted from the differential to the wheel hub is variable.

- Therefore the ratio between the motor and the part of the wheel that consists of hub, spokes, rim and tyre, is variable.

Any better?

[Miles]

Hi Don,

You might also be interested in this:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 58&start=0
http://groups.google.com/group/nohassel ... ions?hl=en

[RTLSHIP]

This ebike has no stealth. right off the bat, people can tell it's an ebike. For that kind of money you would think that Currie could build something that looks like a regular bike.
The range is obviously good, but I can't believe they want that much money for this bike. A nice ekit and lifepo4 pack can be bought for under $1000. I doubt many of these IZIP Express will sell at that price, especially to those who are ebike knowledgeble. Nice bike, overpriced.

[Miles]

http://www.currietech.com/currie-techno ... c-bike.php

User manual for 2010 IZIP Express
http://www.currietech.com/pdf/expressman.pdf

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Jerome,

Do you presently own an ebike? If you do then what about it don't you like or would you like to see improved? I guess what I'm saying is I see you are looking at all kinds of ebikes but can't seem to settle on one or the other. Perhaps you need to list the attributes you absolutely want and those you desire and then see which ebikes offered for sale are the closest to meeting those parameters.

If you go back a bit he has a post about a complicated decision matrix, so I think he knows what he wants

I dunno, he's posted about at least 5 ebikes that I know of and has settled on none so far

Jerome diligently input all the various ebike parameters into his spredsheet.
after careful massaging of the formulas, the bottom corner 99zz cell spit out the answer he wanted to see.
then he bought accordingly.

wake me when the e-revolution has arrived.

CrazyJ.jpg (11.06 KiB) Viewed 5522 times

[georgefromvt]

I like the higher torque thanks to "Evo-drive". Too bad it doesn't come in a step thru style, my aging baby boomer body finds straddling traditional mens style bike cumbersome. Also not sure why the back brake is v style rather than a more reliable disc brake. I'm 200 lbs, don't trust the v brakes. Just my two cents

[Green Machine]

SO i got to ride the izip express recently. After reading this thread i am more confused than ever what is going on with the planetary drive in the back and whether the motor gearing is a fixed ratio or not. After reading this thread i am still confused.

The currie people told me the motor was single gear, and the planetary drive was a way of combining power between rider and motor. What i felt from my test ride and my conversation is that the planetary rear hub blends rider and motor input into one single output...so basically the rider is able to pedal assist while motoring.

Because the bike has no throttle (it uses cadence sensor only) if you are not in the right gear you cannot get the motor going when climbing hills.

One strange thing i felt is when I was pedaling with power off, then i switched on the power, I noticed the the bike became harder to pedal. I could not tell if this was from the gearing changing or from some kind of friction caused by the motor kicking in.

[Miles]

Well.... it's a fixed ratio in the sense that there nothing to change.

The effective gear ratio for the pedals is significantly lower with the motor off - that's what you're experiencing. If you use the motor all the time, this feature could be a positive. If you want to use the motor intermittently it's a nuisance and the reason I lost interest in this system...

[wildharemtbkr]

I got to ride the express at interbike yesterday, along with a bunch of others. The bike was really weird, you pedal and the motor kicks in and it felt like high gear! On the short track anything higher than the lowest gear was to much. It made quite a wirring sound also, about the same as an ego kit. In low it packed quite a punch of the line! It was still a lot of fun, the whole day was allot of fun! Some of the newest bikes are pretty dang cool.