new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

I just did a quick search, and what I gather is that titanium is not as strong as high-grade steel. I used a couple stainless steel bolts (because that's all I could find at Lowes with a countersunk head), so you'll probably be ok using titanium but I don't see any reason to use titanium.

http://faqload.com/faqs/bicycle-components/bolt-tuning-replacing-heavy-steel-bolts-with-titanium-aluminum-and-carbon-fiber

http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/ti-bolts-where-where-not-use-them-705263.html#post8048011

progrock said:
I appreciate the info on titanium... and to be clear, if I were to get titanium bolts, it would be Grade 5 titanium, which I'm pretty sure is considerably stronger than steel alloys (tho could be wrong)...
 
I thought about "upgrading" to the Kelly controller but when I searched about the subject, all I found were people with problems. It would be nice if someone figured it out. I also thought about getting the 60A Bluetooth programmable controller but shunt-modding the stock controller is so easy (Gman is at 90A), and I can limit the current with a Cycle Analyst, so I went with the tried and true stock 40A controller again. However, one reason I might get the Bluetooth model is if I can make the throttle respond more quickly.

wsntme said:
...I too have the kelly controller for the cyclone and i couldn't figure out how to get the power out of it, always felt weak.....so i went back to the $40 stock one.
 
That's pretty cool that you found that video. If you don't want to send power into it like that, I imagine you could just connect the wires across the shunt to do the same thing.

On my board, I just added some solder to a few key areas (the traces to the transistors and a few other areas). You can tell where I added solder because it's shiny.

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progrock said:
Hey robocam, I actually wasn't even looking for this at the time, but just stumbled upon a very relevant video. It's a short video describing a technique to measure/calculate the shunt resistance on a controller, in order to calibrate a CA. It's pretty hilarious that I just stumbled upon this when looking up something unrelated.... on top of that, I literally just received an iCharger i purchased a few days ago, was unaware of the "foam cutting" feature... but apparently I have exactly what I need to do this, and it solves one of my current problems with the install (and pretty happy I don't need to use an external shunt to calibrate my CA correctly... now I can add the 6 pin connector, and be good to go).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okpFsoHNE7I

I will say, it seems bit weird/sketchy to pump 10amps through the controller "backwards"... seems like it could be dangerous... but it seems like this guy does it to every controller he makes/sells, and doesn't seem to cause any problems for him.

Also, I know you guys said not to waste my time upgrading the main capacitors on the controller, that the stock ones will suffice... but considering I'm already modding the controller (removed about half of the wires/connectors already... also gonna bridge the 3 speed directly on the controller, since I removed the connect, just need to confirm whether it is the blue or pink wire that needs to go to ground... as well as add the 6 pin CA wires/connector)... and while the stock capacitors apparently will function with a 20s pack, I've heard that when capacitors are ran near their peak V, they tend to leak, among other negative effects. I added a few 100v capacitors to an order from Arrow (they are only ~$1.50 a piece, so not very expensive)... I ordered 2 different (tho similar) capacitors. Both are 470uF 100V, just one is considered "Low ESR" while the other is a more or less standard capacitor. From what I understand, the Low ESR Capacitors should be preferred in this situation.... but if I got that wrong, I have the others that'll do the job (Can anyone confirm that the Low ESR ones are the better choice here?). The other benefit to the Low ESR capacitors, is they have a significantly higher lifetime, speced at 8000h... while I believe the other ones were 2000h (which seemed to be by far the most common lifetime rating). I figure for $5, and a few extra minutes of my time... it's worth upgrading the capacitors before something potentially goes wrong. I'm also debating on beefing up the main traces on the board with some bare solid copper wire I have (as shown in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JIXnt6bn0Q&t=215s )... I know it's not really necessary, but seems like it might not be a bad idea.
 

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flat tire said:
In other news I finally got this thing working sensorless with my powervelocity. It's working great and there's plenty of torque even from a dead stop.
Any changes/modifications needed for that? How is the takeoff from stop? How is upper half of RPM, no sputtering/smooth as lower end RPM?
 
Yeah, of course I know I it's a quick test to see which wires to bridge on the 3 speed.... BUT, I was a little trigger happy, removing every wire I don't plan on using... which included the 3 speed wires. I figured it shouldn't be too hard to confirm which is the correct wire, I am leaning towards Pink and Black (ie. simply attaching a wire to bridge where the pink wire used to be attached to any open ground pin, rather than have an unnecessary connector... which just makes things harder to test... hoping my first try is correct). BTW, my Pink wire was connected to the board's #19 thru hole (assuming the boards are at least numbered the same... which is more likely true than having the same color wires).

While I was cleaning up my controller, in case I ever needed to bring a connector back, I made a reference of ever single connector/wire's PCB attachment points. I figure someone MAY find this useful in the future, so might as well post my values (in no particular order)

Cyclone 3000w 40A Bluetooth Stock Controller Wiring (reference):

1) Power
  • Red: VB+
  • Black: VB-

2) Phase
  • Green: '#' A
  • Yellow: '#' B
  • Blue: '#' C

3) Main Motor Connector
  • Yellow: #8 - HA
  • Blue: #10 - HC
  • Green: #9 - HB
  • Red (Power Switch): #18 [][][][x]
  • Yellow+Green (Hall Sensor): #4.3B [][][x][]
  • Black (Hall Sensor): GND
  • Red: (doesn't go to controller)

** The #18 [][][][x] means this wire was connected to the 4th of 4 of the #18 connection holes (though it may or may not matter which spot is used, but probably safer to keep it consistent)

4) Bluetooth
  • Red: *The first leg, just right of #17 (not a hole)
  • Green: #21
  • Yellow: #22
  • Black: GND

5) Throttle
  • Green: #13
  • Red: #4.3A [][x]
  • Black: GND

6) Manual Cruise
  • Purple+White: #26/20
  • Black: GND

7) Low Brake (both)
  • Grey: #11
  • Black: GND

8) 3 Speed
  • Pink: #19
  • Blue: #17
  • Black: GND

**Bridging #19 (Pink) to GND (Black) should set controller to full power mode, without the need of a 3 speed switch

9) PAS
  • Green #7
  • Red: #4.3B [][][][x]
  • Black: GND

10) PAS ON/OFF
  • Black (Female): #27
  • Black (Male): GND

11) Reverse
  • Brown: #23
  • Black: GND

***Some colors may vary (I will try to add the actual connector order/orientation later to help identify correct pins with different color wires)

Can anyone with stock Cyclone 40A controller help confirm that my numbers are indeed correct on your controller.
 
Thanks for the good info, I've not been able to get into the cont via Bluetooth. Not that I really even bothered past the first few tries. My kits still installed, cont's been stored. Riding hub motor. Too many looks and gazes my way. Another reason is I like 36V, but on Cyclone its not fast enough, on 4T hub its good. Going 2wd + actually pedaling if I want to hill climb. The hills around here, very short, a cpl rare hills are very steep and very short.
 
minimum said:
flat tire said:
In other news I finally got this thing working sensorless with my powervelocity. It's working great and there's plenty of torque even from a dead stop.
Any changes/modifications needed for that? How is the takeoff from stop? How is upper half of RPM, no sputtering/smooth as lower end RPM?

Take off from a stop is super smooth and powerful, did surprise me a little. Feels no different from running sensored. Haven't ridden it too much but did run it to max rpm in lower gear and it feels like it's working perfectly the whole way up.
 
Thank you so much for testing that! I did figure out my Kelly controller has a small connector for a 3 way switch. I think that will increase my RPM as it is only in the middle setting when disconnected. I thought something didn't seem right.

wsntme said:
I ran your test on my bike with cyclone 3000, stock 40amp controller, and 18s LiPo. To limit full throttle speed to 25 my gearing was; 14t motor, 44/44t lunatic crank, 28t rear cog. Plugging that into your supplied calculator gives me around 635rpm motor speed. I too have the kelly controller for the cyclone and i couldn't figure out how to get the power out of it, always felt weak.....so i went back to the $40 stock one.

Scott76308 said:
I have my new Cyclone installed with a Luna 72v battery and Luna's 72v Kelly controller wired and programmed for the Cyclone and Luna thumb throttle with voltage gauge on it. Based off of my Calculations it is spinning about 450 rpm, full throttle at 25mph. I have had the bike to 32 but based my calculations off of what gear it is in to top out at 25 to reduce wind resistance/max speed variations etc.
Can anyone please help compare their rpm! I spent hours going through all these posts and thought my motor would spin 600-700rpm based off others speeds and gearing. Here is a killer speed calculator, all you have to do is put in all gearing and tire info and guess different rpms until the speed comes close to what you do in that gear. If you put it in a gear that would cause you to top out at 25mph that would be even better for comparison sake.

https://www.electricscooterparts.com/motor-jackshaft-wheel-gear-ratio.html

PS my 72v battery was about 79v 14t-motor driving 47t, 48t inner ring driving 20t on the cassette turning a 26.5 tire and it tops out about 25mph which came to 450 rpm.

Any insight or info anyone can give is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
 
If you get it working at the higher power level, please let me (us) know how you did it!
I messed with the connection that should be for the 3way switch, trying different combinations of shorted wires. I did find a pair that seemed to give much more power, but it would just shut down after a short application of power....then it would not work again until I disconnected and reconnected power to the controller. It did not flash any codes or change LED colors at all....never figured it out.

Scott76308 said:
Thank you so much for testing that! I did figure out my Kelly controller has a small connector for a 3 way switch. I think that will increase my RPM as it is only in the middle setting when disconnected. I thought something didn't seem right.

wsntme said:
I ran your test on my bike with cyclone 3000, stock 40amp controller, and 18s LiPo. To limit full throttle speed to 25 my gearing was; 14t motor, 44/44t lunatic crank, 28t rear cog. Plugging that into your supplied calculator gives me around 635rpm motor speed. I too have the kelly controller for the cyclone and i couldn't figure out how to get the power out of it, always felt weak.....so i went back to the $40 stock one.

Scott76308 said:
I have my new Cyclone installed with a Luna 72v battery and Luna's 72v Kelly controller wired and programmed for the Cyclone and Luna thumb throttle with voltage gauge on it. Based off of my Calculations it is spinning about 450 rpm, full throttle at 25mph. I have had the bike to 32 but based my calculations off of what gear it is in to top out at 25 to reduce wind resistance/max speed variations etc.
Can anyone please help compare their rpm! I spent hours going through all these posts and thought my motor would spin 600-700rpm based off others speeds and gearing. Here is a killer speed calculator, all you have to do is put in all gearing and tire info and guess different rpms until the speed comes close to what you do in that gear. If you put it in a gear that would cause you to top out at 25mph that would be even better for comparison sake.

https://www.electricscooterparts.com/motor-jackshaft-wheel-gear-ratio.html

PS my 72v battery was about 79v 14t-motor driving 47t, 48t inner ring driving 20t on the cassette turning a 26.5 tire and it tops out about 25mph which came to 450 rpm.

Any insight or info anyone can give is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
 
Robocam, is that the back side of a stock 40A controller? If so... wow mine looks different. Aside from everythign having numbers on mine instead of letters identifying each connection (letters does seem a little easier if they make sense.... but I have mine mapped out to the numbers, as I posted above, so god enough for me). One thing I find drastically different is the amount of solder between the main positive and negative battery connections, and the shunts on the back. Mine has a TON over there, including what appears to be a wire soldered in on the main positive (very similar to what one of the videos I posted a link to showed.. but only a ltitle more than an inch long). Ironically, the extra solder was a huge PITA when it came to replacing the capacitors. Had to wick up a ton of it to get to the connections clean enough to pull them out (that much solder really dissipates heat quite a bit, luckily I have a half dozen different tips for my Hakko FX-951, and one of the large ones made the work easy enough). Though, after my experience with this, I went and purchased a Hakko FR-300 (a desoldering gun that's self contained, with an internal pump)... should come handy in the future, and seems like a highly recommended tool (I'm already a big hakko fan, and other options were drastically more expensive).

I'm just about done replacing the capacitors and installing the 6 wires for my Cycle Analyst connector. Then I need to add back a bunch of the solder I removed... and while I do that, was also gonna add 2 pieces of either 10awg or 12awg bare solid copper wire across the 2 main traces on the back of my board (as seen in the video I posted). I also connected where the pink 3 speed wire was directly to ground with a short wire (hopefully that is the correct one, got at least a 50% chance, and seems like it was for most people). Pretty close to done with all the controller mods, next up I'll be trying to make the stock mount a little stronger.
 
default lvc is set to 32V, anything under it cuts out. the last 1.0V from 33V down to 32V it seems as though its not full bore, seems as if the cont pulls back because its getting close.
 
Completed my controller mods, added the Cycle Analyst connector (http://www.ebikeschool.com/add-cycle-analyst-connector-controller/), and used the techinque in the video i previous posted (https://youtu.be/okpFsoHNE7I) to calculate my Rshunt (got 1.65 mOhm, will confirm once I get everything running and plug that into the CA to see if it all appears to work accurately). I definitely prefer this, over using the adapter cable with it's own shunt to connect a Cycle Analyst to a controller without a native connector (and it is relatively easy to add). Adding the CA cable was definitely easy... but some of the other mods were a little sketchier (I say there's at least a 10% chance I may have ended up braking the controller... but it's low enough that I'm pretty sure everything will be fine... just won't be terribly surprised if something goes wrong, haha). But got some good quality 100v capacitors on the controller now, and beefed up the main traces by adding some 12 awg solid copper wire and solder (https://youtu.be/-JIXnt6bn0Q)... changing capacitors required removing a good amount of solder (which I later replaced), and obviously adding the 12awg wire required a large amount of soldering.... both mods I wouldn't recommend to anyone that's not confident in their solder work... I've had a good amount of practice soldering to PCBs in the past, but still not a pro (hence me estimating the ~10% chance things may go wrong). But again, adding the CA connector was by far the easiest mod, second easiest was removing every wire/connector I have no plans of using (also did the 'speed' mod, connecting what used to be 1 of the 3 speed wires directly to GND).

Now I just need to add some thermal paste to the metal backing of the MOSFETs (probably gonna clean up what's on it already, and replace with my own... I'm sure plenty of what was there already got wiped off accidentally during the other mods, plus could use a cleaning anyway... and not sure how good of an idea it is to mix different thermal pastes, tho likely not the end of the world). Once that's done, will be sealing up the controller (hopefully for good, tho might need to open it up to test out the speed mod... or if anything goes wrong). After that, I plan to replace at least the main power connector with an anti spark XT90S connector (tho also considering using AS150 connectors instead, just got a good deal on 5 sets). I'm also considering replacing the 2 phase connectors with some XT150 connectors (got 3 different colors of those, and I like the smaller/cleaner design of the XT150 connectors over the bulky stock ones that came with the controller/motor). The only connectors left si the 7 wire to the motor, the bluetooth adapter, and 1 'low brake' connector (got rid of 1 of those since I don't have any gear on the bike, but left this one since I have a pair of brake sensors that'll connect to it). And lastly, I just need to replace the hot glue I removed that was holding all the wires in the outlet port on the controller (presumably was there primarily to help 'waterproof' the controller... I'm probably gonna put a piece of PVC shrink tubing over it as well, should help a lot in keeping water out). The controller definitely looks much better with more than half the wires/connectors removed... definitely much cleaner than having a bunch of loose wires zip-tied together just hanging off the controller.

Next up, finally gonna take care of figuring out a way to strengthen the mounts on this motor. Sadly I'm much better with electronics than I am with machining a mount (and unlike electronics work, I don't have a large number of tools to do the job). But hopefully I can figure something out that is within my means.
 
Looks like I'm probably gonna go with some AS150 connectors for my main battery connections, just got 5 sets at a good price, shipped in under a week (http://a.co/00PZEi1). Hopefully the XT150 connectors I ordered a couple of weeks ago get here soon, then I can use them for my phase wires (got 3 pairs of different colors coming, so pretty much perfect, plus will look nice and clean next to the AS150 connectors)
 
If your mount is like mine the back of the motor will flex forward under power so a quick fix is to install a bracket on the back and attach that to the bike or the bb plate on that side.
 
im thinking of copying this ultimate c3000w mid drive build:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=83578&start=75

But i would like to upgrade some of the week points discussed, i.e better brackets, maybe controller i also some pictures about broken gears where to get this stuff from ?
 
Man, gman, was just watching some of your trike (aka batmobile) videos.... that things looks fun!... How's riding a etrike compared to riding an ebike?... seems like it would be more fun. Got any recommendations on a good trike to throw a cyclone on?
 
Soo... I realized cyclone actually sell's the upgraded install bracket for this motor (http://www.cyclone-e-bikes.com/motor.html) ... presumably it's what Luna's kit already has (and I would hope SBP will be getting it soon). Anyway, $35 isn't bad.. sadly shipping was supposed to be $35 (not exactly cheap).. and even worse, when I actually went to pay, shipping to California went up to $52.50 (pretty crazy... I could see that for the motor, but for the bracket, pretty damn high). I was willing to do the $35, but that was just too high.

Onto the good news... I emailed their sale's support (30 minutes ago, at 4am PST on Sunday morning)... the shocking part... I got a response 1 minute later (no joke 1 minute... my optimistic hope for a response was sometime Tuesday if I was lucky). Had inquired if there was anywhere else I could order from, explaining the high shipping. They simply told me to order, and they would refund me $20 (so ended up being $32.50 shipping... could be worse). I ordered, and minutes later received the refund. Hopefully I'll get even luckier and they will ship it quick.

I know, still kinda pricey for a mount that's still not amazing... but definitely seems like a good improvement. Still wish someone would come out with a nicer one (sounds like Luna might be.. though I really don't know where that info comes from... but hopefully it's accurate). But, whatever, I figure it's still worth it.. being the only option aside from fabricating one (which I was and still am, tempted to do... just I live in a studio apartment, if I had a garage to do the work I'd be doing it right now... but I still might end up doing it anyway, or at least attempting to... already got two 1/8" x 3" x 12" aluminum plates, and an angle grinder I'm very tempted to try with)
 
Hey everyone! Fairly new to the E-Bike scene and I have decided that I am getting a cyclone. I started off with a BBs02 on a mountain bike, but I want something more exciting. I bought a Motobecane fatbike today used for $400! It will be excellent.

I will be making my own pack. Thinking maybe 19s, 3p 18650. In the meantime I will be using lipos I have leftover from radio control stuff.

A few questions before I buy:
1) where is the current cheapest place to buy the kit? I live in the US.
2) what controller should I use for 72v? Something programmable might be nice so I can adjust the ramping up of power.
3) Do I really need an e brake cutoff? Seems somewhat useless?
4) Is the cycle analyst worth the trouble and cost? I really only want to know my voltage...

Thanks! Looking forward to the build and 3000w. Later in winter, I plan on putting a ski on the front of my bike:)
 
Jason, sound like you're planning something similar to what I am doing.

So the Cyclone 3000w kit in the US... you have 2 options... http://sickbikeparts.com and http://lunacycle.com

I believe both are the same price, but both are slightly different (with regards to what the kit comes with, and what upgrades you can do... as well as just people's preference on which company is better to deal with). First off, check if both have in stock.. I ordered mine a few weeks ago from sickbikeparts... I didn't know they carried it (had been waiting for months for luna to get it in stock) and they came highly recommended by people on the forum. I think Luna might have just finally got theirs back in stock. Second, one important thing worth mentioning (I was actually given the wrong information on this)... Luna's kit comes with the newer/better mounting bracket... The original bracket, what SBPs still has, seems pretty inadequate in person, THO there's like a dozen different mods people have done to improve it. Luna's bracket isn't incredible, but definitely better, and you MIGHT be able to make due without any mods. BUT, if you are like me, and got it from SBPs, you can actually order the bracket directly from cyclone in taiwan (http://www.cyclone-e-bikes.com)... I just did yesterday. It's $35 and shipping originally showed up as $35 (so $70 total) but when I went to pay, suddenly it went up to ~$53 shipping. I emailed to complain/ask for other options (at 4am PST Sunday morning, nto expecting a response for days)... got a response 1 minute later... told me to order, and they would refund me $20 (which they did immediately.. AND they have already shipped it and given me a EMS tracking number, so should be here SOO much faster than I had expected). SBP's kit comes with a chain, and I think there may be one or two other small differences... and each site's upgrade options are way different. Luna makes it easier to upgrade (BUT, if you email SBPs, they will tell you to order the 'upgrades' you want, comment in you order, and they will refund you some money). I had my eyes on the Luna tic crankset/freewheel upgrade... but got SBPs Ultra HD Freewheel upgrade (made by white industries... so definitely quality.. but very pricey for a freewheel.. BUT I am a big fan of white industries).

Now, with that all said, and if both have it in stock.. you'd probably be leaning towards Luna (again, this is partially dependent on what upgrades you want... tho most importantly, whether you want to build your own mount/enhancements, or have to order one from Taiwan, vs getting the better one in the kit. BUT, there is more to the story... while Luna definitely seems like a legit reputable company (I have no reason to think differently, others may argue)... SBPs totally wins on customer service. For me Luna took days to answer every email, and rarely answered all my questions... with SBPs, I emailed them in the morning, got a ful response within an hour... and through that day had something like a 15 email conversation ending with me ordering from them. I've also heard multiple people say that if they were to have issues with the kit/motor... they would feel much safer dealing with SBPs (again, I personally have nothing bad to say about Luna.. BUT I can say I think SBPs is wayy more responsive and much easier to get a hold of... Luna seems a little stretched too thin). I personally do not regret at all ordering from SBPs, and would do so again... THO... it would be a tough decision, Luna definitely has it's benefits (I wish SBPs would just get the upgraded mount, then it would be much easier... but considering how quick cyclone's service ended up being... not a big deal to me right now).

Second, if you want a 72v battery... I believe that's generally considered a 20s, not 19s (given at full charge a 20s is higher than 72v... BUT 20s is the highest supported by the stock controller... it;s what I'm going with.. and I am also building my own pack).

For me, I wanted a pack that would hit the 3000w mark, BUT it needs to be as light as possible (I don't have an elevator in my building, and need to carry the bike up/down a flight of stairs to use each time).... and 95% of my rides on this will be in the 1-4 mile range, so I don't need high capacity normally. I ended up findidng the Sanyo 20700A battery... a 30A 3,1000mAh per a cell (YES 30AMP continuous per cell)... meanging, instead of needing 80-100+ batteries to hit the 3000w mark... I can do it with 40. On top of that, you can get these batteries from brand new Bosch 18v 6.3ah battery packs (10 per a pack... and can get 2 packs for $105 shipped on ebay brand new http://r.ebay.com/DSNQ84)... AND to top it off.. for my 20s2p pack, it's literally exactly 4 bosch 18v 6.3ah battery packs in series.... SO i can make use of their current structure, with their 'coolpack 2.0' battery holder technology, and their laser welded copper plates... a win, win, win for me. And I plan on eeither have 2-3 of these packs (so I have an option for longer rides) or I might just make a second pack twice the size, a 20s4p. Either way.. these batteries are from a top brand... very high quality.. the new 20700 form factor... and at an incredible price (comes to $5.25 a battery).... plus I get the bonuses I just described on top of the batteries. On top of all that, these are pretty new battery packs from Bosch... so buying them off ebay at an incredible price does not mean I am getting old/defunct battery packs.. they are all pretty much brand new. I can't recommend them more.

As for ebrake cutoff... others may say different.. but I don;t think it's that necessary. Given, I did get them... but only because I found a set brand new on ebay for half price. THO, it seems a lot of people don't like the stock ones, finding them hard to install (I know grin, the makers of the cycle analyst, has a new design that seems much better, but cost a little more, nothing crazy)

As for the cycle analyst.. do you need one, probably not... But again, I absolutely bought one... did not hesitate or have to think about it. It's not too expensive, and has TON of benefits to it.... too many to list... some major, some small.. but both major and small ones can be really nice. But, you can always get one later if you don't get one now.... but I feel like it's almost a must have based on how useful they are.

Anyway, hope that answers your questions... and good luck... should be a fun bike when you are done.
 
Thanks for the reply!
Those Bosch batteries look nice, but my brother can get genuine Panasonic 18650 cells for $4.5 a piece. It will probably be worth it to make our own. What controller are you going to be using?

I am fine modding the motor mounts, I have access to a machine shop. Sounds like a 48t crank is the way to go, esp with the low quality derailleur I have on the bike.
 
That's cool... just so you know, the bosch batteries are in fact panasonic (or sanyo, same company)... just they are of the newer form factor 20700... both 20700 and 21700's are the new form factor that are becoming more and more popular (I believe Tesla is basically hording almost all the 21700's for their new model 3 if I'm not mistaken... but eventually they should have what they need, and you'll see more people using them). The huge benefit of both the 20700/21700's is that the small increase in size is generally entirely utilized for additional storage (given the ones I'm using are geared more for the high amps, the Panasonic/Sanyo 20700A... it's got a solid 30A continious capability per cell, but only 3,100 mAh... which still ain't bad at all.. but the Sanyo 20700B's are only 15A, but have 4,000mAh I believe... and again, 15A isn't bad either). When you look at those numbers, compared to the minor increase in size, they are pretty killer cells. And like I said, at the price I'm getting them at, it's only $5.25 each shipped... and again, I'm actually making use of other parts included in the packs, so it's even better for me.

But $4.5 is probably a great price (I suppose depending on what model 18650, I forget their exact models, but I believe their highest capacity 18650 is 3,400mAh which is pretty damn good.. tho I think the amps are pretty damn low on those, but a big enough pack with enough parallel cells can solve that problem), and if you're not able to benefit from the "prepacked" batteries like I am... getting clean individual cells definitely has it's benefits. I'm still stocking up on these bosch battery packs, the price is just too good IMO, and I'm a big fan of their plastic holder... and the 30A continuous per a cell is just incredible.. especially when you're trying to make 3K watts without weighing a ton. Also, aside from sourcing these cells from bosch battery packs, I've had a lot of trouble finding them elsewhere... usually for $10 or more a cell (before shipping) and more often than not, out of stock. And the icing on the cake is that these bosch battery packs are a very new product, so unlike sourcing 18650's from ancient laptop battery packs, I know these are fresh, and as good as new.

But, one of these days I'm going to find a good deal on some solid 18650s that I won't be able to say no to, haha... got enough supplies to build quite a lot of battery packs.. so gonna have to find more reasons to, haha.

As far as controller, I'm using the stock 40a Bluetooth controller (though I made some improvements to it)... seems like people really recommend the stock controllers for these motors... and A LOT of people here really hate on Kelly controllers (which was my original plan). I personally have no clue if Kelly controllers are good/bad.... but I figure, start with the stock one, and can always get something better later if need to. Though, I did get the bluetooth version... BUT to be perfectly honest... if I were to make the purchase again, chances are I wouldn't get the bluetooth one. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, just since I got a cycle analyst, I'm wondering if I will ever make any use of any of the bluetooth features (not even sure what half of them are)... and it's just 1 more messy set of wires coming out of the controller (but like I said, I made quite a few mods to my controller... one of them was removing more than half the wires/connectors... since I was never going to use them... and I prefer getting rid of them completely over having them hang unattached). Ironically, the 1 controller mod I did not do (yet) is the shunt mod... and since it;s only a 40a controller... might have been a good idea... but I may go back and do it at some point (but spent enough time fiddling with my controller, and just cleaned up the original thermal compound, and replaced it with my own, so not trying to take it apart again right now).

Considering we were talking about batteries, if by any chance you were actually asking what Battery Management System (BMS) I am going to use.... I ended up ordering some pretty high end ones from bestechpower. TBH, was quite the PITA, and not exactly cheap (plus got more than I needed/spent more than I intended. But I could not find any other BMS that could handle a 20s battery that was highly recommended. Seemed like the only other options were to gamble on a unknoiwn, no name, chinese controller... or go without a BMS... and for this build, I didn't like either of those options. I've heard very good things about bestechpower's BMS, especially the one I got (tho it's usually always mentioned as nice than you really need... but I figured I might as well). The biggest issue is was that you can't jsut go on bestechpower's website (or for that matter, any website that I'm aware of) and just order a BMS... they don't generally sell directly to the public... hence it being quite the ordeal (and also why I bought more than I needed at this time). BUT one of the biggest arguments "against" BMS', is that if you don't/can't trust yours, it can lead to bad things... so I made sure I got one that I am confident in.

BTW, I am very jealous of your access tio a machine shop... I would kill to have 1/2 of a 1 car garage to use... let alone a machine shop... just the garage would be truly amazing even. I'm in a studio apartment (given a VERY large studio for this area)... but none the less... not somewhere I can really be using an angle or bench grinder, etc. I think I might bring my cordless angle grinder up to the roof and try to make something happen there. Here's a link to the page in this thread that shows 2 different ways of upgrading the stock mounts: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&p=1183684#p1183884 and here's a link to a post that links to most of the popular mounting bracket mods: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/kits/cyclone-mid-drives/13449-upgraded-cyclone-mounting-brackets

If you end up making a really good one, and are interested in making a second... I'd totally be willing to pay, haha (or possibly make some form of a trade if that was more appealing)

Also, if you're confident in making a good mount... I'd definitely recommend leaning towards choosing sickbikeparts for where to buy the kit. Of course, make your own decision... but I can pretty much promise a few more people will chime in recommending them (also if you read back a few pages, you'll see some of the recommendations). Again, I personally don't have anything against Luna... I just had a very good experience dealing with SBP... and from what other have said, if something was wrong with your kit, you'll have a much easier/quicker time dealing with SBP to get it resolved (I have no doubt luna would resolve it too... just I would be it would take longer, and be more painful)
 
$4.5 whether its usd or cdn, aus, kiwi is expensive. Are those 3.5Ah cans? If so makes sense then. Only if space is a concern. 3.0Ah cans are much cheaper, like $3.00 cdn/aus/kiwi = $2.40usd and you do not lose much space, depending on your battery can layout, an extra row (in parallel) of 18650.
 
markz, would be great if you could share recommended suppliers that have good prices on them. While I really love thise 20700's I'm using, I still wouldn;t mind getting some cheaper (but still quality) cells to build some other packs (gonna need at least 1 large pack for longer distance rides... tho still considering using the 20700s for that in this case... but none the less, eventually I'm gonna want some cheaper 18650s)
 
ebike11, I'm going to be using a single speed mountain bike freewheel with a 26" wheel... not a BMX, but close.
 
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