new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

At 32.8V I was crawling, seemed like 5kph, but it got me home. Im gunna throw an extra 5S into the mix for 15S, 62V total. Its been a few months now on only 1 speed 12T -> 44T
 
ebike, chris king iso (it's a beauty, though a little old.... but it came on the bike when I bought it... can't say I would be willing to spend the money on this bike when it was new, I think the front and rear hubs combined cost more than any bike I had previously bought, and those are not the only expensive parts on this thing)
 
Just bought the kit for my fatbike from Luna. Using 9 6s lipos (66.6v), isis bottom bracket and cranks, and 44-48-26 triple chainring. Decided on the Bluetooth controller, didn't want too much clutter on the handlebars. No e brake cutoff either. I will be programming a Arduino to do fun things with some lights and possibly keep an eye on my lipos. I will link the build thread when I get started. Looking forward to it.
 
hypertronic... that's what I need... kinda pricey (at least the crank side freewheel), BUT that one is made by White Industries (and dual bearing)... and I had to take off my White Industries "The ENO" crankset to install this motor... so it just felt right, they definitely make some solid stuff.

On a side note, already got my upgraded stock mount from Cyclone TW... definitely fast turnaround, ordered it about a week ago, no complaints there.
 
Yes, but $120 for a made in the USA, replace it once and never again item is what its all about! I dont want a failure at 1am on some bike trail in Orlando. Already been there.

Cobrajet, the system uses two freewheels. One on the motor output shaft ( after planetary reduction), and another that threads the double chainring onto the right crank arm.
 
I went for the mid range $80 from sbp, with no complaints. I kept the trashed stock one to show someone if they argue the fact that it’s worth it to upgrade. I 3d printed a cover for the crank freewheel also, mentioned in previous posts, with pictures. Still have the stock motor one though. One incident on a ride where it would just spin and not transfer power. Fixed itself pedaling back and its worked fine for the last year and a haif. A new one is on hand as it’s sure to go at some point, the motor freewheel I’m referring to.
 
Skaiwerd, I would have went with that one as well, but I prefer the idea of dual bearings. Pretty unrelated, but I've built a number of custom 3D printers.. and have been using Ballscrews in them (usually just for the Z axis, though working on one that may use them for all 3), and if you ever look into ballscrew mounting, you generally have what they call as a fixed side and a supported side. The "fixed" includes at least dual angular contact ball/needle bearings.. the supported is more or less your average ball bearing (ie. something like a 608ZZ... well for your cheap chinese C7 supports... when you get to the expensive C5 or under precision, it's a much more precise bearing, but still same idea). My point being... been learning quite a bit about this stuff, and when it came to a freewheel that can have forces from the rider and a 3000w motor... I figured a dual bearing was a good idea. Of course, white industries makes some really quality stuff, and I doubt you'll have any issues at all (especially considering many are running the stock freewheel, that's a joke in comparison). As for the motor's freewheel... it was not much more expensive (especially as an upgrade), so I figured, if I'm getting the very expensive UHD freewheel, I can spend a few more bucks and get the upgraded motor one. Again, I figure it can't hurt, that's for sure, and likely a good idea.
 
Greetings Gents, it's been a while. Good to see this thread still ticking along.

Quick question. Has anyone added a fan to their stock Cyclone 3k controller yet?

I've been searching for a few weeks, but have not been able to find anything via search.
My controller is the SaiKeLong 400 (YKZ6040), and I have been trying to determine where I can borrow (read: steal) 5v power for my 50mm fan. Only need 150mA, but those 4 data pads just behind the two big caps on the end of the board draw power through the controller chip.
I was afraid to put 150mA load on the 5v data pin in fear that it might kill the chip. OR... cause the chip to not have sufficient power under heavy load, keeping the controller from opening the FETs, and blowing the board into next week.

I ended up connecting to the 2nd available pad where the red 5v wire for the throttle connects (pad is labeled: 4.3A). Hoping this does not cause an issue with throttle input.
Experience anyone?

Edit: Just got finished putting the controller back together. Not enough power from the (4.3A) pad to kick the fan over. She just twitches on power up. Same symptoms as when testing the 5v pin on the data connection by the 2 caps.
Think a 5v 500uF cap in series with the positive fan lead would give it enough kick to run?
 
Usually for these controllers there's to-92 case voltage regulator which is capable of putting out up to 100mA.
Technically it is possible to replace it with to-220 one which are usually capable 1-1,5A with cooling.
 
What's the specs on the SaiKeLong 400?

I've been looking into upgraded controllers, I wanna get one that'll work good with the cyclone, and support a 24S battery pack. Anyone have any recommendations?

I'm also willing to upgrade the controller myself (upgrade fets, caps, etc)... but would still like a solid base, and again, def needs to support at least a 24s (though I probably won't go higher, if I were to it would be maybe 25s... so really just concerned with it supporting a 24s)
 
minimum said:
Usually for these controllers there's to-92 case voltage regulator which is capable of putting out up to 100mA.
Thanks for the tip. I'll have to pull my controller back apart and look for that component.
I did try to trace down the regulator when I had it apart before, but was unable to locate it. Maybe I can figure it out this time.

progrock said:
What's the specs on the SaiKeLong 400?
It's the stock controller that comes with the Cyclone 3k kit (the 1800-3000w). It's rated for 36-72v 40Amp, but many of us have been running it right at the max, and a little over.
I've run mine a few test runs on 24s, but no long range runs. It worked without issue, however I would not run it like that all the time.
Mind you I have not modded the shunt for more amps. That test run was with 4x relatively weak power tool packs. I doubt they could output more than 30A.
(FWIW, 24s x30A... I'd say each cell in my pack was putting out 3.9v under full load. 24 x 3.9 = 93.6v ______ so 93.6 x 30A = 2,808w. Still under 3000w)

Your main issue is the 3x 80v caps for each motor phase. Caps are usually underrated by around 10-15%. While you could run them at 72-96V, that would not be wise.
They will run hotter and dry out faster. In the worst case, you might have a weak cap that barely meets the spec, and blows out under high load. Could possibly take other components with it.
So you could run it on 24s, but understand that you will be shortening the life of the controller if nothing catastrophic ends up happening.

You would be stressing the whole controller going over the spec. Mostly the Caps and the FETs. Those would need to be upgraded at the least.
For short quick bursts, you might do ok. Continuous riding at that power level would kill the controller pretty quickly.
 
Somehow broke my half twist throttle ignition, sensor wire and ground shows 0V. Connected up spare throttle (with no dmm) and still nothing, checked spare throttle on hksunwin controller with mxus 3k, dmm shows everything normal, yet that throttle does not work, might be ignition but its connected. Only thing to do is hook up Cyclone again, test spare throttle with dmm and order a few spare throttles.
 
Oh, I didn't realize that... plus I thought the controller has some kind of voltage detection where it wouldn't work with over 20s... but if not, that's amazing news.

I've already upgraded my 80v caps to much better 100V.... apparently I should have gone even higher, since I wanna run it at 24s.... they are a PAIN IN THE ASS to replace due to the insane amount of solder on them (well, at least on my bluetooth version).. I actually bought a Hakko FR-300 after dealing with that mess, so next time it would be easier. The Hakko FR-300 is AMAZING.. well worth the money (totally seemed overly expensive till I got it in my hand, then even better once I used it). I also did a bunch of other relatively minor mods to the controller... tho ironically, I did not do the shunt mod... figured I would do that later if needed.... but now thinking I should have while it was apart (spent a bunch of time cleaning off the stock thermal paste, that was a total mess after all the mods)... tempted to go back and add a little bit of solder, already tested/calculated the shunt's resistance (for calibrating my Cycle Analyst), so should be easy to calculate the difference after shunt modding. Tempted to do the capacitors AGAIN, now that I know the controller should work at 24s (tech the 100v should handle it... but the reason I upgraded the 80v was b/c I was gonna run 20s and didn't like pushing the caps to their limit, plus totally got better quality ones).

BTW, in case anyone is interested in upgrading their 3 large (and shitty) 80v capacitors... The stock ones are 470uF Aluminum Lytic, the size of them is 16 x 25mm... while not impossible to fit, I found 16 x 31.5mm capacitors were just a tad too big (again, possible to if you really tried.. but I was worried about them touching the top of the metal case). As far as 100v caps go, they are easy enough to find that are the right size. Now, the "next" step up apparently appears to be 160v... The only one's I could find was: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/lgn2c471melz25/nichicon (22 x 25mm... 22mm might be a little wide, but I think it's manageable.. and so far the best choice size wise) and https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nichicon/LGU2C471MELA/493-2627-ND/1004288 (25 x 25mm, even bigger than the previous) and https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nichicon/LGN2C471MELZ25/493-6116-ND/2540352 (22 x 27mm, probably manageable, but tight). If you're gonna go with 160v, I'd go with arrow (also my favorite electronics company to order from, free overnight shipping on $20 orders.... I'd recommend buying some 100v back-ups that are smaller).

A quick note about choosing capacitors... if your gonna be running max 20s, I don't recommend going 160v... only if you're gonna be pushing them, ie 24s... Running a Cap to it's max, or above, is not the best idea.... but running a 160v when a 100v will do, is also a bad idea... the efficiency of the higher V caps will be worse in that case... which means more heat... always a bad idea.
 
markz said:
Somehow broke my half twist throttle ignition, sensor wire and ground shows 0V.
Hey Mark, did you try unplugging the ignition wire connector at the controller and short the pins together?
Talking about the 2 red-wire pin connector. Unplug that and short the pins together, see if it starts up. (Just remember that is FULL battery pack voltage running through those pins)
Don't know if you checked that yet. First thing that came to my mind.
 
I was just watching the Luna cyclone install video with the "new" mounting bracket. They have washers (I believe they call them spacers in the video, but they def just look like thin washers) that go between the lockrings... since I didn't order from Luna... neither my original kit, or mount kit, came with these spacers. I can't see anything special about them other than that, I'm assuming they are metal (I've found ones that look a tiny bit thicker and serrated on both flat sides, as well as silicon gaskets, and also some flat ones, copper and other metals... should be able to find a thin, smooth steel one, which is what they appear to be). Anyway, my real question is... does anyone know what the point of using these are? are the necessary? (or at least a good idea/not pointless) ... Also, if anyone has these, could you LMK exactly what they are... ID, OD, thickness, etc.

Another thing I am slightly confused about, the bearings in the square taper bottom bracket say 6002RS... but every 6002RS I see has a 15mm ID... but the bottome bracket is 16mm... not sure how that makes sense.

I gotta say, the newer style mounting bracket that actually goes attaches to the motor, without the funky offset spacers, or whatever you call them (the 2 aluminum almost oval shaped pieces with 2 holes in them, used on the original bracket to attach to the motor). Besides it just looking like it'll be more solid, definitely simplifies the instructions quite a bit (not that the original was that hard to figure out... just this is now stupid simple). Definitely glad I ordered it from cyclone (at least until a new custom mount is available... I've heard people say Luna is gonna have one soon, but I have no clue where they got that info from). As I mentioned, I actually could not believe the experience I had dealing with cyclone directly, getting a response to an email 1 min after sending it, at an odd hour on a Sunday... being given a discount on shipping, and having it at my doorstep in under 2 weeks (much closer to 1).... and great communication... all in all, I couldn't believe it, expected the exact opposite, very pleasantly surprised.

BTW, now that I know the controller doesn't have a hard voltage limit, I'm planning to go 24s2p instead of 20s2p now... but gonna keep the 100v capacitors I installed, while just at their limit, I think they should still be able to handle it. And a 24s2p pack with these Sanyo 20700A batteries should be amazing (technically possible for the pack to produce 60A at 100v... even with just 48 cells total.... THO I don't plan to push it that hard, hoping for 3-4kW, not 6kW). I'm also debating on what to make my secondary battery (for longer trips)... either another 24s2p as a backup... or I'm thinking maybe going 24s3p. Probably going to use the same cells... unless I can find a good deal on 3,500mAh (or close, 3,400 would be ok) 18650's (ideally the GA's) for a good price.... so far most prices weren't even as good as the $5 shipped I'm getting these 20700A's at.
 
progrock said:
I was just watching the Luna cyclone install video with the "new" mounting bracket. They have washers (I believe they call them spacers in the video, but they def just look like thin washers) that go between the lockrings... since I didn't order from Luna... neither my original kit, or mount kit, came with these spacers. I can't see anything special about them other than that, I'm assuming they are metal (I've found ones that look a tiny bit thicker and serrated on both flat sides, as well as silicon gaskets, and also some flat ones, copper and other metals... should be able to find a thin, smooth steel one, which is what they appear to be). Anyway, my real question is... does anyone know what the point of using these are? are the necessary? (or at least a good idea/not pointless) ... Also, if anyone has these, could you LMK exactly what they are... ID, OD, thickness, etc.

Another thing I am slightly confused about, the bearings in the square taper bottom bracket say 6002RS... but every 6002RS I see has a 15mm ID... but the bottome bracket is 16mm... not sure how that makes sense.

I gotta say, the newer style mounting bracket that actually goes attaches to the motor, without the funky offset spacers, or whatever you call them (the 2 aluminum almost oval shaped pieces with 2 holes in them, used on the original bracket to attach to the motor). Besides it just looking like it'll be more solid, definitely simplifies the instructions quite a bit (not that the original was that hard to figure out... just this is now stupid simple). Definitely glad I ordered it from cyclone (at least until a new custom mount is available... I've heard people say Luna is gonna have one soon, but I have no clue where they got that info from). As I mentioned, I actually could not believe the experience I had dealing with cyclone directly, getting a response to an email 1 min after sending it, at an odd hour on a Sunday... being given a discount on shipping, and having it at my doorstep in under 2 weeks (much closer to 1).... and great communication... all in all, I couldn't believe it, expected the exact opposite, very pleasantly surprised.

BTW, now that I know the controller doesn't have a hard voltage limit, I'm planning to go 24s2p instead of 20s2p now... but gonna keep the 100v capacitors I installed, while just at their limit, I think they should still be able to handle it. And a 24s2p pack with these Sanyo 20700A batteries should be amazing (technically possible for the pack to produce 60A at 100v... even with just 48 cells total.... THO I don't plan to push it that hard, hoping for 3-4kW, not 6kW). I'm also debating on what to make my secondary battery (for longer trips)... either another 24s2p as a backup... or I'm thinking maybe going 24s3p. Probably going to use the same cells... unless I can find a good deal on 3,500mAh (or close, 3,400 would be ok) 18650's (ideally the GA's) for a good price.... so far most prices weren't even as good as the $5 shipped I'm getting these 20700A's at.

Hello
It not a good idea overvoltage the spec of the kit,the motor are rate for around 2500rpm after 3000rpm the efficency will drop easily,and dont over amperage because the width stator are 25mm,if you want a heater for the winter its a good idea :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Well, unless I'm wrong, I'm assuming the Voltage limits are specific to the controller, not the motor... in which case, I have modded the controller quite a bit to handle the Volts. I don't expect to be have the throttle maxed out regularly, but wouldn't mind having a little extra go available if needed. From what I've seen other people running these motors at, seems like they can handle more than 3000w... but even tho the battery pack could handle 60A at 100V... I def don't plan on ever pushing it that hard. The higher volts (ie. running 24s instead of 20s) should just allow me to have the power I want, at a lower amperage. Which I was hoping would be better for the batteries, and ideally possibly even better for the controller/motor.

Anyway, I definitely appreciate the warning... and if I'm wrong, or you have more info/warnings, please LMK.... but at least for now, I think this setup should be able to handle what I'm trying to do with it.... and if I do break things... you won't hear me blaming anyone but myself. But again... any advice/warnings are more than welcome.
 
BTW, was just sizing up the new motor mount... seems liek I have the horizontal distance pretty close to spot on for my 73mm BB... BUT, the drive side is much "higher" (further from motor) than the left side. It actually looks worse in person than the photos... was very strange, a bunch of photos totalluy looked perfect, even tho there's easily a 1-2cm difference. I'm already using the inner holes on the drive side and the outer on the left... what do people usually do to fix this offset, I assume you want this just about perfectly lined up if somehow possible.
 

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Progrock

It looks like the bends are not perfect with the motor mount bracket, shown on the left side in your photo. Was probably bent by someone inserting the bracket into a brake of sorts. Perfection would only come from an automated process which was probably not used to keep costs down, understandable. Sometimes things need to be loosened up elsewhere, like the other non bent bracket, bottom bracket etc. get things to fit loosely then selectively tighten up things a little at a time till it’s just right and tight. Things tightened up to early may fight your progress.
 
progrock said:
The higher volts (ie. running 24s instead of 20s) should just allow me to have the power I want, at a lower amperage. Which I was hoping would be better for the batteries, and ideally possibly even better for the controller/motor.

Wait a sec, from what I understand, it won't be better for your batteries or motor or controller. All three will suffer from 24s and lower amps. In general,raising the voltage will raise the rpm range that's most efficient for a motor. But there are limits ...

This motor has a limit to its efficiency, right around the rpm achieved by 18s . So, pumping 24s through it will force you to use much higher rpm than what the motor is designed for.

You'll be wasting power into heat by trying to not bog the motor down on 24s. It's a lose-lose scenario. Bogging motor = waste heat . High rpm from 24s = waste heat .

All of this waste heat is wasting your batteries, and heating up the motor, and possibly controller (depending on phase:battery amp ratio and controller rating, I guess).

Ideally, you'd want the same motor with a lower Kv rating / higher turn count for 24s, which is not available as far as I know.
 
hypertoric, thanks for the info.... I'll have to do some more research on that before deciding between 24s and 20s.

edit: TBH, the most interesting thing might be to try both for some time, record results, and compare. That was sort of my original plan. Though, there's a pretty high likelihood that whatever I start with, I'll just keep, lol. But so far this is making me lean to starting with 20s.... but hopefully curiosity keeps me motivated to try 24s at some point... after a few months.... unless my research really leads me to believe its a REALLY bad idea.

Thanks again for the info/warning... it is extremely helpful.

edit2: Oh, and Skaiward, thanks for the advice as well... sadly not too much to loosen up, but definitely a good idea to approach it that way, instead of trying to bend things with everything tight. Obviously I'm not the first person to see this with a cyclone, so guess it's more than manageable... but def wanna get things aligned pretty damn well, with all this power, if it's not.... could be real bad news.
 
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