The SB Cruiser : Amberwolf's 2WD Heavy Cargo Trike & Dog Carrier

amberwolf said:

Well, I'm more of a mind to treat people the way I'd like to be treated. Sometimes people take that kind of example and learn from it. Most of the time they don't, but it is always worth a try.

But if I just treat *all* people the same way bad people treat me, it just makes the world a worse place to be, because more people will emulate that kind of attitude more easily.

So I'd rather spread a little bit of good than a lot of bad.

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I'm pretty much in your camp on this. I both ride and drive and I've watched both cyclists and drivers cause real problems on the roads for themselves and others. So I just try to be the person not causing the problems ... regardless of my mode of travel. I approach riding and driving with cooperative mindset, not an adversarial one - regardless of what the other guy is doing.

One nice thing I've noticed about riding an e-bike is that it is psychologically much easier to just stop when a driver seems confused about how to deal with me (for instance, tailgating/trailing me instead of simply passing). When on pure human bean power, I'd find that much more frustrating since it requires effort to get going again. The effort of putting the bike into motion is less precious on the e-bike. Same with rolling stops and coming to a full legal stop.

Wow. 50 Wh/mile!! I'm running between 13-15 Wh/mile ... I think partially because I still find myself wanting to pedal along with some effort. It will be interesting to see if that increases over time as I perhaps go faster or pedal less.

wturber said:

One nice thing I've noticed about riding an e-bike is that it is psychologically much easier to just stop when a driver seems confused about how to deal with me (for instance, tailgating/trailing me instead of simply passing). When on pure human bean power, I'd find that much more frustrating since it requires effort to get going again. The effort of putting the bike into motion is less precious on the e-bike. Same with rolling stops and coming to a full legal stop.

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Yes--this was one of my first reasons for wanting to add a motor to my bike in the first place, around a decade ago--I had a commute from near Metrocenter to Arrowhead mall area, and while I could save a lot of starts/stops taking the canal path between them, I still had a few dozen more of them once off the path and on roads to and actually in the mall area to reach my workplace. It was also because it was quite a distance and I wasn't young anymore (nearing 40 then, my knees just beginning to act up when overexerted). Anything was a help in not arriving all melty and sweaty.

wturber said:

Wow. 50 Wh/mile!! I'm running between 13-15 Wh/mile ... I think partially because I still find myself wanting to pedal along with some effort. It will be interesting to see if that increases over time as I perhaps go faster or pedal less.

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My bike version is more in the 22-30wh/mile+ range, so less than half what the trike takes, mostly cuz it weighs less, and I have lots of stops/starts. But partly because of the aero--the trike, especially with the sunshade canopy, is far from aerodynamically efficient. :/

I can see the differences between the weight/acceleration efficiency, and the aero efficiency, because on long trips with less stops/starts the bike gets a lot better efficiency, but the trike only gets marginally better.


Today I had a side trip doing an errand from work in the middle of my shift, which had a few more stops/starts, so efficiency dropped:

51.6vstart
50.6Vrest
44.1vmin
6.856Ah
6.126miles
335.21wh
53.9wh/mile
1.1% regen
0.0773Ah regen
6.9349Ah fwd
-21.7Amin
129.5Amax
20.2MPH max
13.2MPH avg
28m06s triptime
3050miles total odo

129.5Amax * 44.1vmin = 5710W

Interestingly, the lower the voltage gets as the pack discharges, teh higher the peak current, and the higher the calculated peak wattage.

On the trip from full charge, it's 5578W. The next trip, wihtout recahrging, it's 5627W. This time, without recharging, it's 5710W.

As noted, that's calculated, not measured, so I dunno if it's accurate. But if it is, it's an interesting and strange trend.

I'd expect peak wattage and peak current to be higher at *higher* pack voltages, not lower ones. :/

Trip stats just for the work-to-home leg of the commute yesterday:

50.6v start
48.9v rest
41.9Vmin
2.059Ah
2.0771ah fwd
0.0162ah regen
2.308miles
41.7wh/mile
96.836wh
0.7%regen
-23.2Amin
125.5Amax
20.3MPH max
14.1mph avg
9m47s triptime
3059miles total odo

The lower wh/mile is mostly because there were significantly less stops, as I managed to make all the lights and managed to time turns and whatnot with the flow of traffic so I didn't have to stop except at the few actual stop signs.

It's also because there were significant amounts of possibly drunken idiots wandering the streets, stepping out from between cars, even a few just sitting just away from the middle of the (poorly lit) streets doing indeterminable things, in several areas surrounding neighborhood parties and parking lots. Another party area had dozens of little kids running all around the area, with not a single adult or even child taller than 3 feet visible anywhere--and of course few of the kids were paying any attention to the traffic (all cars except me) in the streets. So I was going about 5mph or less for those stretches, probably half a mile in total between them all. Odd that this didnt' lower my average speed (it's actually a bit higher than the rest of the data for this week). :? Maybe its' because I didn't have to slow or stop in the other places I usually do.



Anyway...up for this weekend (hopefully) is doing some voltage-drop tests on the cabling, and sag tests on the battery itself, to see where the power losses are happening. I know there's some loss in the phase wires, as they still get hot, but they're also really long and can definitely be shortened now that I know these controllers are working on here.

If I'm lucky I'll also get the other MXUS rotor laced up in place of the X5304 (hopefully after testing the x5304it on the trike to be sure my fixes worked, so I'll know it's worth relacing it up into a different wheel later, like maybe it's original front 26" wheel to see about 3WD on the trike. ).

Then I can put the old MXUS 4503 stator in teh rotor and put it as the right side wheel on the trike, and have nearly-matching motors on there. (left side will be the existing 4504).

And also wire out the halls on the 4504 to be able to use it with a sensored controller.

I've been trying to think of a good way to move the IGH away from where it is, in front of the seatbox, and route all of the chain under it instead of thru it.

There is room enough to put the IGH between the trike-axle's input sprocket and teh back of teh seatbox, just *barely*, but it would make it a real PITA to get to it to fix any kind of chain issues. I'd probably have to put a removable cover over the cargo deck area it would be under, so I wouldn't have to flip the trike on it's side to work on it. Presently there's just a welded-on chain guard since the chainline still goes upward thru the deck area at the front, and into the seatbox.

The main reason for moving the IGH is a cleaner look, and keeping me from kicking the chain to it when getting on or off the trike and derailing it just enough to cause it to jam when I start moving the pedals either backward or forward. Since moving the IGH is pretty complicated, it's more likely I'll end up building a removable chain guard--I haven't done that yet partly becuase I still have to manually move the chain up front from one ring to another if I want anything other than a limp-home-without-power gear (like if I want to pedal along with the motors for real).


Moving that chainline under the box is possible, but I'd have to either use two jackshafts, or four roller guides (sprockets on bearings). Not really hot on the jackshafts--they get complicated with installing them and keeping chain tension and whatnot.

Spring-tensioned or bolt-aligned roller guides would be more complicated to layout but simpler to install chain on, as I have to guide both the top and bottom of the chainline down and back and then up again.

The real issue is clearance below the trike and above the potential speed bump heights in parking lots--some of these things are pretty tall, and the trike is already about as low as it can get and still be certain to clear all of them.

I'll probably end up leaving the IGH and chainline where they are, and just making a steel square tube with open bottom to mount inside the seat box to cover the chain, and protect cargo there from being able to get caught in it. There's already a partial guard built that way.

That's really the only reason for wanting to move the chain down, so the whole cargo box is clear for stuff. Right now there's also a bit of frame in the way of cargo, but that's easy to fix, too, if I'm putting chain guards in I can take that out. Presently the "toptube" of the part in front of the seatbox. the 1" tube over the chain/IGH, feeds into the front of the seatbox and transfers load into a vertical tube in the middle of the seatbox down into the "downtube" or "keel" 1.5" (2"?) main square tube that runs from the back of the seatbox up to just behind the front wheel and angles up to the headtube.

The fix would be to add a 1" ssquare tube from that keel up to the back of the front top rail of the seatbox, where the seat hinges are, but on the inside of the box, just to the left of the hole for the chain from the IGH. Then the "toptube" would connect to that instead, and the other stuff would be removed from the cargo area. Not much more room, but some.

Presently the seatbox is divided into two in the middle, with a panel of styrofoam insulation on either side of the chain and central tubes, both to keep stuff from entering that area (and falling out the open bottom there, which has to stay open to access the chain for repairs), and to give me a cold side (or hot side) to store food/etc in for work lunch or whatever.

Battery wiring is another thing I hope to deal with.

Presently the wiring goes out of the battery, thru a foot of wire into an SB50 anderson pair for disconnecting the battery completely for removal, then to another SB50 pair that connects to a 65A breaker, then to another SB50 pair that runs forward to the controls area above the pedals.

The reason for the SB50s on either side of the breaker are that I wasn't sure when setting this up that the breaker could handle the loads the trike would put on it, but it's held up fine so far. If it couldn't, and failed on me on a work commute, I could just unplug it out of the circuit, then plug the SB50s together to bypass it, a matter of a minute rather than however long to splice wires around it. Since they don't appear to be necessary anymore, they can go away.


Then we have the control wiring. This runs from the breaker up to the enclosed triangle above the pedals. There, it attaches to the bolts on the back of the battery cutoff switch (mostly a power switch, partly an anti-theft measure), and connects to the CA shunt. Then it runs all the way back to the seatbox and past it, to another SB50 pair at the controllers.


This whole wire run is unnecessary, and the main reason it was run this way was that originally I had the motor in the front wheel, and the controller in the triangle, and the power switch was a keyswitch in the toptube just under the tiller. Once I moved the motors to the back, it only stayed this way because it was easy to leave it, and I am lazy.

Now, there's no good reason to run the traction battery power up there at all. The battery cutoff will be moved to the seatbox (probably right in front, next to the chain hole). The shunt itself can be moved back to the battery area, and just small wires run up to the CA from it for the sense wires. Probably an old USB cable or similar will be used.

Additionally, I'm still using a 45A Grin shunt--that's a bottleneck of it's own. So if I can set the CA to half the resistance (0.5milliohm, IIRC), I'll parallel a pair of them. That doubles the wire conductor area as well as halves the resistance at the shunt and interconnects (splice/solder) in the path of battery current.


Overall, it'll probably reduce the battery wire length by 3-4 feet, at least, and I can take out the connectors at the breaker and the controllers, directly connecting those. The breaker's own connection point is still a weak point, being simple screw-tightened clamp contacts; can't change that though, without leaving out the breaker entirely (which I could do, but I'd rather have the possible safety cutoff it offers in the event of a catastrophic controller failure or wiring mishap, crash, etc.).


ATM I don't have a way to cold-flow-crimp them together, so they'll still be overlap-soldered like I usually do, but I suspect it will still be better than the multiple connectors.

If possible I'm also going to increase the battery wire gauge, but I don't think I have enough of any one size wire for this, in a single run, to be worth dealing with.




Phase wires on the motors need to be shortened up. I'd also fatten them up if I could, but that would require enlarging axle holes/slots for bigger wire, and given the weights I need this to carry and the crappy roads that have already broken an axle on the X5304, I'd rather avoid weakening axles any more than they already are from the factory.

An alternative to that is to get larger bearings with bigger IDs, and lathe out the covers to fit them (or make new ones), and then pass the wires thru the larger ID of the bearing, with a spacer around them for the bearing to push onto the axle with. Presently that's more work than I can do, and I don't have larger bearings so I'd have to buy them (and as usual, spending money when not necessary is problematic--rent is going up by $35/month at the start of next year, but my pay won't).

amberwolf said:

The breaker's own connection point is still a weak point, being simple screw-tightened clamp contacts

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??

Presuming the wire end is "tinned" (soldered), it's likely the very best connection you can possibly have except having a soldered connection directly. That's a big part of why it's used so much! It also yields a very good mechanical connection - the value of which is never to be underestimated... So, I'm not sure why you're saying it's a weak point. They should be tight enough to preclude any moisture getting into the main joint, and there's often a specific torque that you're supposed to use...

Meanwhile, my San Rafael with TSDZ2 used in "moped mode" (given my still bum leg) is yielding 2.01 miles per Ah!

Well, in this case, the clamps don't physically put enough pressure on the 8AWG wire to retain them in the clamps if they are pulled more than gently.

With crimped ferrules over the wire (the way they're used on the powerchairs they came from), they work fine.

As it turns out, despite the lack of retention pressure, there's plenty of conductivity. Before altering the wiring, I did a number of voltage drop tests, measuring the voltage across different sections of wiring from battery to controllers. On the breaker, from the back of one connector to the other (so the clamped joints are included, but not the contacts of the connectors), I only get 0.046v drop across it at 70A.

There's also only 0.07v drop across the battery disconnector switch, even though I didn't have ring terminals on it's bolts, and just had 12AWG wire tinned and J-bent around the bolts between their nuts clamping them in place.

The SB50 andersons only had from 0.05v to 0.1v across each contact. But that's doubled, as the current flows both ways thru them (it doesn't in the breaker and disconnect switch).

Similarly, all the wiring goes both ways, from one side of the battery to the other. In total, the voltage drop across *each side* of the loop from battery terminal to motor controller cabling was at least 2.4V!

So that means there's about 5V of drop lost between battery and controllers, at 70A. That's quite a lot.

Part of this is from wire that's too small (12AWG for a few inches up in the triangle, 10G for a couple of feet on the way from triangle to controllers, 8AWG for the rest). Part of it is from poor connections (there were two places in the 10AWG, one in + and one in -, where apparently I didn't complete the splice process, for reasons I can't imagine--I'd interleaved the wires, and clamped them together with zip ties, instead of tying with wire around them and soldering).

The rest of it from the CA shunt; I forget now (was more than 12 hours ago) how much drop there was there (partly from the shunt, partly from the thinner wire).

I didn't test to see how much the soldered connections drop. Meant to, but forgot.


Note that to do the test, I parked the trike with the steering locked, and front tire against the house. Then I hooked the Fluke across each test point, and applied both throttles at WOT just long enough for the voltage reading to stabilize (a couple of seconds for most tests). The right motor, HSR3548, didn't have enough torque to spin at all, but the the left motor, MXUS 4504, would spin in the dirt on the bricks of the back porch where I did the test. Current varied from 70-85A, so I just use the lowest figure.

The fixes for this were numerous, but the biggest is simply to take the whole front end loop out, so the battery to controller wiring only goes from the battery thru the breaker and cutoff switch in the seatbox, and straight back to the controllers, with the only connector still there is the one between battery and rest of bike (mostly so I can swap it out easily for whatever reason).


First up was just to take out all the old battery-to-controller wiring and connectors, everything from battery terminals to the wires on the controllers themselves (well, I left the wires on the Grin controller as they're good, albeit only 12AWG).

I had 8AWG from battery terminals (ring type) to primary SB50; was a premade battery connector with a 125A fuse inline, originally from a powerchair. I replaced that with a 6AWG set that is a few inches shorter.

I replaced the whole breaker setup with another from the box of powerchair stuff, this time using one that still had it's original 8AWG wires on it with crimped-on ferrules on their ends inside the screw-clamps of the breaker. These can't be pulled out by hand, unlike the ones without ferrules like I used on the previous setup.

The breaker is in the positive line, just like before--but now the cutoff switch is in the negative line, so I ahve a way to cut the battery completely off from the trike without unplugging it, if I ever need to.

I drilled a single thumb-sized hole in the wooden face of the seatbox just behind the IGH, and isntalled the cutoff switch from inside the seatbox (rather than outside as it's meant to be done), because this is a lot easier than cutting a slot with a central hole, which is how it would have to be done to mount it "normally". The old 12AWG wires from teh cutoff switch are replaced with 8AWG, with ring terminals that are already crimped on (again using wires from old powerchairs).

One wire from the cutoff switch, and one from the breaker, goes to the SB50 the battery plugs into.

The other wire from each goes straight back to the motor controller wiring area.

SInce the Grin 1milliohm CA shunts I ahve are really only meant for 45A max, I paralleled two of them at their input and output wires, and also paralleled the blue & white sense wires, so that I can just plug in my JST extension cable from the CA up front to just one of the shunt's plugs. This requires changing the CA to high-range mode, to set the shunt value to 0.500milliohm.

The battery end of the shunts (12AWG) was then spliced and soldered to teh 8AWG from the battery area.


Since the power wires on the generic 15FET were something like 16AWG, I replaced them entirely with the wires from the Grin 12FET. Since the Grin's wires were very long, I cut them down just long enough to reach all teh way across the trike wiht a few inches of play, plus enough to reach all the way inside the 15FET. Then I removed the remains of the 16AWG and soldered in the 12AWG from the Grin. This left them connected to each other but nothing else.


Then I stripped a half inch of insulation on each of those two wires, not cutting the conductors, and then wrapped the ends of the shunt's load-side wires to them, and soldered. It's not as good a connection as my normal splice, but it should be good enough.

This completed the circuit, but I wanted to integrate a charger on the bike and now's teh time with the rewiring.

So I also added SB50/10AWG and PP45/12AWG connector sets to this same point, so that the charging will also be monitored by the CA. The charger itself is a Meanwell HLG-600-54A, left set to the 58V it came to me at. I added a matching SB50 with 10AWG wire to it's output, and a 1-foot AC cord (male end) to it's input. The orignal plan was to use a panelmount male socket but I can't find that right now. So the short cord gets mounted to the wooden seatbox underside along with the charger. Charger is heavy, so the tab at one end is inserted as far as possible above the metal frame under the wood., and the other end has five screws with washers securing the tab.


I just plug in a cord from the charger to the wall and it'll automatically recharge the pack. For this charger, it's left at full voltage, rather tahn the reduced 54v, because if I need it while I"m out, it'll fill fuller faster at the higher voltage. I can use the off-board charger at home for the 54v charge level, or I can adjust the onboard unit for that.

For now I'm going to test at the higher voltage and run it down to see how performance is thru the whole range.

While redoing the wiring, I also moved the battery a bit. It had been vertical against the seatbox back wall, now it's horizontal with the "top" of the battery facing the left side, negative to the back of the seatbox, and positive to the front. The lighting pack that had been vertical on the left side of the traction pack is now vertical on the front wall of the seatbox. Then blocks of wood are used to clampthe packs to the seatbox wall/floor so it odesn't bounce around. This should makeit easier to get the toolbag/etc out, as it previously had to be worekd in and out of the wiring areas.


Also, the XLR charging plug I'd intalled up front for the traction pack has been repurposed to charge the lighting pack instead, since I use the Satiator for that, whiel using the HLGs for the traction pack, and I dind't want to move the XLR.




Didn't get ot the phase wires yet. Also didn't get ot test in detail yet, just a trip around the block to be sure it works.

This morning I noticed the forecast had changed, such that today was going to be teh only day below 95F (predicted 91) the rest of the week, and most would be back over 100F again. Since I wanted to take the dogs on a trip to where I work, that meant today would be the last day this week for it.

So I didn't get any further on the above work today, but I did get a good load test in on the trip, between the weight of the trailer, the cooling pads, and the dogs.


I noted down teh stats when I reached work:
57.1vstart
55.7vrest
52.4Vmin
3.699Ah
3.7237Ah fwd
0.0243Ah regen
2.187miles
203.83wh
92.8wh/mile
0.6% regen
-18.5Amin
106.7Amax
20.3mph max
14.2mph avg
9m14s triptime
3064 total odo

Then noted the stats again when I got home, after some detours partly because of much heavier traffic at that time (late afternoon) and partly to pick some stuff up on the way home.

55.7vrest
53.7vrest
50.8vmin
5.598miles
9.283Ah
9.3922ah fwd
0.1089ah regen
505.61wh
89.5wh/mile
1.1%regen
-20.5Amin
115.0Amax
20.3mph max
12.1mph avg
27m34s triptime
3067miles total odo


First note: I hadn't realized that between 54v and 58v there's almost 10Ah (1/4 of the pack). Somethign to remember when longer trips might be needed.

Second note: The higher wattage (calculated) at lower voltages still appears to hold up. 5591w on trip out, 5842w on trip home. Still seems odd that current (and wattage) would go up as voltage goes down, since the controllers should be limiting based on current, not wattage or voltage, so current shouldn't increase beyond whatever the controllers' limits are.

Onscreen I only see about 4.5Kw during accelerations, but not all peaks are visible due to the time it takes the CA to change the display.


Acceleration with this kind of load used to be 12-15 seconds+, now it's 6-7 seconds, 0-20MPH.

Acceleration with no load, just me on teh trike, is under 4 seconds. Now we're getting there.

Pretty good for just shortening up some wires, doubling up the shunt, taking some connectors out, and improving some connections.

I wonder what improvement I'll get from the phase wire shortening/upgrade? (if any)


Tomorrow when it's light I'll have pics of the new wiring and battery area configuration.

Oh, and the bracket for the lefthand mirror clamping it to the bars finally gave way from all the stress induced by the crappy roads. It was just a thin strip of soft steel that bent around the bars and onto the bolts embedded in it's plastic mounting arm. For the trip I ziptied it on becasue I forgot this had been a problem (almost cracked thru) until I started out on the trip, and then it was too late to do any longterm fixes, wih the dogs already in teh traielr and trike crates.

If it had a threaded-in arm I'd just use a seatpost clamp like I did on the rightside (and CrazyBike2's mirrors), but it doesn't, so I'll need to make something up to secure it permanently.



The trike, trailer, and dogs:

The setup appearance is looking more and more professional and well designed. Hope all goes well for you.
otherDoc

Thanks! But you should see the wiring underneath first.


Today it was nice and breezy and not as hot as predicted, so I spent it doing the yardwork I've had to put off for the last month or so (cuz it'll be hot again the rest of the week).

So all I got done today was to take some pics of things. First is the seatbox, still loaded up with the stuff from yesterday's doggie trip.


Then the battery area with the toolbag, straps, dmm, flashlight, and leashes removed.


Then styrofoam battery protector sheet removed, showing the side-edges of the cell casings.


Looking down on it with front of trike to top of pic: Repacked with toolbag in the middle, air pump to it's left, dmm and flashlight to it's right, lighting battery (breaker on top) in front of it, main breaker to it's left front corner.


Still need to make a new center divider/insulator.

Breaker, cutoff, and wiring back to controller area


breaker down to cutoff, showing cutoff's bolts/lugs/nuts with rubber caps pulled back


A crack I found while redoing the wiring.

It doesn't go all the way down yet. This tube will be cut some inches to the left (forward) anyway, near where the breaker sits on it's top at the front of the seatbox, and the round tube it's connected to will also be removed, and both replaced with a diagonal tube going up and forward from the base of the round tube, up to the stub of the square tube just past the breaker. Should be stronger. (If I didn't need it to be as low as it is so I can step over it, I'd actually move the whole "toptube" there up to the same level as the top rail of the seatbox, and then if necessary continue it thru the box to the rear rail of the box).



The crack I mentioned in a previous post, at the top rear of the front triangle. It does go all the way thru, completely separating the tube on the right from the triangle at the top.







Then the bottom of the whole trike's seatbox and cargo deck to show charger, wiring, controllers, etc.
View attachment 18

Charger AC cord plug tucked away.


charger connector SB50 to shunt, with PP45 tucked away (for use with Satiator if needed).


Main battery to shunt wiring


shunts


shunt wiring, showing unused secondary shunt-ca wires and blue/white sense wires paralleled to the first shunt's.



Extra length of phase wires right and left motors, still have to shorten them:



Temporary repair to the left mirror mount:
View attachment 5

Former location of the cutoff:

I still have to take the rivets out.

Bell removed from CrazyBike2 and put on the trike's rightside handlebar:



Kirin and Yogi waiting for me to finish with the pics, just hanging out.




Teh trailer with crate on it, and the crate off the trike:



I think I forgot to post this, but when I have the trike on it's side for working under it, I often hold a wheel while I get up. When I did this during the rewiring the other night, the right wheel wiggled. When I checked I found axle clamped tight, but then I noticed a spoke actually hanging loose by the nipple, elbow not in the flange but not broken. Almost all the spokes were loose enough to be able to hand-turn the nipples. First I put the loose spoke back in teh flange, then I went around the wheel tightening each 1/2 turn over and over until it was all tight again. I haven't trued it up, just made sure it won't fall apart.


This is the wheel I had to change rims on due to the split in the previous rim's wall. It's been used some since then but apparently not enough to show the problem until now; I guess I didn't tension it correctly when relacing it, and the sideloading on the trike worked them loose. It has straight 13g spokes.

Didn't have this kind of problem with the wheels on teh trike itself (same rims, but using 13/14 spokes instead of straight 13's).

Wow, this thing is fun now, especially when unloaded.

I took a quick trip to Goodwill for a "new" pair of shoes, as the sole suddenly came off the inboard front edge of my "good" pair (for work) in a way I can't reliably fix without considerable work. While out, I also went to the store for some groceries.

I don't have the data for the part of the trip to GW, as I'd forgotten to reset the CA's trip data after the previous trip, until I got to GW. But I have the rest of the data to post after I get it off the CA later (tomorrow, at this point, or rather technically later today).


Acceleration is WAY improved over what it was before the shunt, controller, and wiring changes. Definitely sub-4 seconds, close to 3 at full charge.

It's still got the HSR3548 on the right side; I wonder what it would be like to put the X5304 back on (have to re-mod the outboard frame/dropout spacing) or when I get the MXUS 4503 laced up in place of one of those two and mounted....


I had some positive comments from bystanders, pedestrians and drivers that were quite surprised by the acceleration (and no negative ones).

The one that stands out most was a driver of a truck that by appearance of his actions at first thought I was going to be in his way as I made my right turn onto the street so I could cross the 3 lanes and into the left turn median. So even though he was quite a distance behind me (and otherwise alone on that stretch of road) and even if I had been a regular bicycle I'd be out of his way before he got there, he gunned his engine and intended to pass me and cut me off. However, my acceleration was so much greater than he expected that he stopped accelerating and instead opened his window and yelled out "way cool, man!" and blipped his horn twice.


I also had someone as I was packing the groceries into a cooler on the trike that said it reminded him of Nepal (the trike-rickshaws), but better.


When I left GW there were people that were talking to each other as they got into their car that thought it was "cool", as I let it roll backwards out of the parking space, and when I accelerated away without pedalling, got a chorus of "WHOA!".

When I was sitting down about to leave the grocery store, some kids walking away from the store with their mom said (to her) "mom, that's a cool bike--can you get us one like that?"; I couldn't hear her response though.

There were others but I don't recall the details of any of them.

One of the reasons I don't spend money on things like brand new lights and stuff I can DIY is so I can afford brand new brake pads (and tires, tubes, etc., stuff I can't DIY).

In this case, it's new brake pads for the front tire. A little while back, the Avid pads on the back-front brakes simply stopped providing significant braking power; the Koolstop pads on the front-front brakes still work but aren't sufficient by themselves.

I checked the pads, arms, cable, lever, clamps for the U-brace with the brake bosses, etc., and even swapped the pads between the two sets of brakes, and the problem moves with the pads.

Sanding the pads to remove the existing presumably problematic surface fixed it for one braking instance, but then they were back to useless. I mean, you could grip the lever hard enough to prevent the wheel from moving at a stop just rocking the trike back and forth while sitting on it, but it just didn't significantly slow the trike from 20MPH, in any reasonable distance. It was like crappy caliper brakes on a wet steel rim. :/


So.... New pads required.

Some posts on ES said the new Koolstop "Ebike compound" works pretty well, so I figured I'd try that out. Raine said he found a good deal on Amazon with free shipping for the pads in holders, so we got those to try out. (nobody local had them at all, most don't carry real Koolstops just clones, and I've never gotten any of them to order them). If the pads themselves suck, the holders will work with any other compound pads that fit the VB or VB2 holders.


They are model KS-VBH2E, V2 Holder, UPC 760251080427.


They don't have a pair of spherical washer sets, just one--the other one is part of the holder itself. The bolt floats inside the holder, rather than being firmly fixed into it. Only one set of washers simplifies installation, as theres not as much fiddling getting them to stay in place while it's installed into the arm, good for me and my hands.


The pad is held in with a retention pin, and can just be slid out the back of the holder to replace it. So theoretically once it's adjusted and in-place, I can replace a worn out pad without readjusting the holder (it's always a PITA to readjust new pads, and can take me hours of fiddling with some of them).


These are no exception, becuase they are very long (and narrow and asymmetric). Teh length, combined with the angle at which the bosses are pointed vs the rim's curve, means that setting them up for toe-in like I would with shorter, symmetrical pads results in the back end not touching the rim at all.

But if I set them up for flat, then the rear end of the pad is so long that it touches the rim all the time, unless I loosen teh cable so much that even full squeeze of lever to handlebar won't fully engage the brake.

So it's a compromise.


Now I have almost full braking back, though it's not really any different with the new pads on the back-front brakes vs the original koolstop pads on the front-front brakes. THey both have "ok" braking, but there's still something keeping them from working like the setup did when I did it.

It might be the rim surface; maybe something has happened to the metal itself. It started life as a machined braking surface rim, and the left side still looks normal. But the right side surface appeared different, more worn, shiny, along the center path where it meets the back-front pad (the front-front pad is closer to the inner circumference of the rim). Pics a bit further down.

And after testing with the new pads, it's dull and dark there, and actually sort of looks blued as if it heated severely along that track. Can't really see the difference in the before/after pics very well, but the rim itself was still quite warm, even after I'd been back in the yard and parked long enough to go get the camera. So it probably did get pretty hot during the actual braking--hotter than it would get in use because I was repeatedly accelerating to 20MPH and braking as hard as I could with only the rim brakes, mostly just the new pads to break them in.

But it's *only* on the right side. The left still looks like it did when I got it, and the entire surface from edge to edge is the same, like the edges of the right surface still do.

Pics before testing the new pads, right after installation:
no flash

with flash

whole brake setup

front front brake with regular koolstop pads


rear front brake/rim after testing
View attachment 5
rim after testing, first with flash then without





What I really need to do is to reconfigure the rear U-brace with bosses so it sits at an angle on the back of the fork such that the bosses are parallel to the rim curve, rather than at an angle away across the top of it. That will require cutting and shaping the bottom end of the U (the two "ends") where the ends fit against the fork so they curve and mate to the fork legs. Then I have to make a plate and "fill" the top of the U ends where they will be spaced away from the top ends of the fork legs. Then I also need a longer bolt to go from the top curve of the front brake U to the rear brake U and thru the fork's own U-brace (which has no bosses on it), so all the parts are tied together and braced against each other during braking.



Another issue that has crept in over the months since changing forks is the bearings/cups in the headsets have accumulated a gap that means braking with the front brake "toggles" the whole fork, tiller, and bars up and down (forward and back). It *looks* like it's just in the top bearing, but it's probably in both top and bottom. pic below, with the plastic cover lifted a bit at the front as I was trying to see the gap (can't).


I can't fix it without putting spacer shims between the bearing outer races and the headtube cups--but I can't easily get to the top one and can't see it really at all to tell how much space there is, because of the square tubing that the headlight/turnsignals/etc is mounted on. That's all welded in place so I'd have to cut it off to do this fix, most likely. It's probably less than 1mm, maybe only half, but it's certainly enough to feel like a lot more during braking. I don't feel it during any other maneuver.


And my ever-present supervisor, Kirin:
View attachment 1

With Yogi mostly wandering around the yard or just going inside to lay down on the cool tile:

Better take the fork out and relubricate adn check for damage.

If I read you right, you have to cut and reweld to fix this?! ...I know resources are light, but I'd do something about that if I were you! A traditional stem should work, just put a very short section of tube in its yoke and you've got the basics for your tiller, I'd think...

...Need better pics to give any advice on alternative designs to let you service this kind of issue without welding any more... Got any stems that MIGHT work? Pick of them, too, would be good! The core part of my adjustable stem would be PERFECT for you as it comes out with a simple M8 bolt to mount your tiller with...

Stem is not a problem; the tiller is welded to the stem, and it isn't in the way either. Problem is the square tubes to either side of it (headlight/turnsignal support) that block access to the bearing area, so I can't easily get in there to stick in shims.

I can actually take the whole thing off by undoing the steerer cap and the stem bolts, but then I can't easily check if the shims are working without reassembling it and realigning and all that, and if it doesn't work the first tiem (which it probably won't) then I have to keep disassembling and assembling it until I find the right shim setup. Too much work. Easier to cut the few small welds that hold the headlight/etc tubes onto the tiller/stem, then reweld them when done. Or more likely, bolt them on, so I don't have to cut/weld again if I ever have to mess with it again.


Wouldn't need the shims if I had the right parts for the whole headset, but I don't. Just spent money on new brake pads, and will have to buy some parts for Raine's trike soonish, so not spending for a headset.

Since the one-piece bearings (not loose balls/etc) actually work fine, and just need shims, I wouldn't buy a headset anyway, unless there was simply no way to shim it or immobilize it from forward/backward motion during braking. Can't imagine I couldn't find a way to do that.

Bearings themselves are fine, the whole unit just moves around inside the cup during braking because the cup is very slightly bigger than the bearing unit (a threadless-type "sealed" unit, both top and bottom). These bearings came from a bike where they sit down into a thick aluminum headtube that's formed/lathed on it's ID to exactly match the bearings' OD, but that's not an option for me on the trike. (not without cutting off and rebuilding the whole headtube area; since a shim will fix the problem there's no reason to do all that work).

I havne't gotten to the above, as I've been working on the new trike (for my brother)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80951&p=1325467#p1325467
which includes ideas I've found to work well with SB Cruiser, plus the idea of deck hanging from wheels off the MkIV trailer, plus some pedal drivetrain routing ideas, plus a shorter front end (since the pedals don't need that much clearance with the front tire). I wanted to try all these on SBC but don't want to tear it apart to do so; this gives me a chance to try them out and see if they're worth altering SBC.

So far it's 2/3 of a rolling chassis, just have to put the front "keel", headtube/fork/front wheel on there, and then it's down to stuff I need more input from Raine on before I build them (seat height, pedal and handlebar placement).


But I've been pondering the brake issues with SBC, and I think the next thing to deal with on it will be that (it's more important than the headset issue). I think a plate welded across the back of the U with teh bosses, and then two wedge-shaped sections of tubing with one fishmouthed end would fit it well against the fork at the top. Have to make a drawing for that to get the idea across.

Since it's been cooler, I've been pedalling a little on the commute home, jsut to keep my legs moving so my knees don't hurt quite as much when I get home. But the chain hasnt' wanted to cooperate, the last few days, catching on something along the path from IGH output to transfer axle input. Releasing tension and retrying usually loosens it but is really annoying, and it never happened until now.


I examined everything and could find no reason for it to have changed, but the culprit turned out to be a small tab of metal on the "arms" of the cover that sticks up in the cargo bed, to keep stuff from getting into the chainline. This is what it looked like back when I built the piece, before adding the cargo deck and seatbox:

The problematic tab is that at the front edge of it, right against the chain in the center of teh image.




The fix for now was to just cut off the rightside "arm". I'll probably redo the whole cover later to make it removable, since this being welded in place means I have to flip the trike on it's left side to be able to manipulate the chain to get it on or off the transfer axle sprocket for any reason.



WHile dealing with the issue, i also fixed another problem that deosnt' happen often, but on really bumpy areas (intersections mostly) if the chain is in motion then the cranks-to-IGH chain can come off the IGH input sprocket and jam up in the bolts that secure the 28T to the 18T (the actual IGH sprocket).

So I set the welder on 3/4 high, to ensure realy good penetration, and welded spots along teh join between IGH sprocket and 28T. I did a spot on one side, then one on the other, then bakc to the first side, etc., working my way around it, to minimize warping. Then I removed the bolts once it cooled off, and reinstalled it on the IGH.

It's still only welded at the center, so if I ever have to I can cut it off and leave the original 18T IGH sprocket intact.

Note that this only fixes the jam problem, not that it comes off from the severe bumps...I don't think I have a fix for that, unless I add a roller on the top of the chain just in front of the IGH sprocket (assuming it's flopping off the top; it shouldn't be on the bottom because the derailer is right there).


I pedalled without motor in the lowest IGH and crank gears for a while in the yard, until I couldn't handle it anymore, without problems. Then I took a break and afterward pedalled aorund the street for a while, in all the different gears, until I couldn't do it anymore.

Then I turned the motor and lights on and headed back to the house. As I got up the driveway, I smelled something bad and then saw smoke wisping out from under the plastic "front triangle" panels; all the wiring in there is only lighting-voltages now, so I switched off lights and got off the seat to open it up and unplig the lighting battery.

Nothing in the lighting turned off or dimmed when it happened, and the breaker on the ligthin batt didn't pop, either.


I opened up the panel and found a single wire smoked and melted-off insulation. It's the supply voltage wire for the downlighting.

Why that would smoke, and none of the lights even dim, I cna't figure out. But eventually I found the cause of the problem, after an hour or so of continuity testing--the lefthand under-handlebar light strip was high-resistance-shorting to the handlebar itself.

Apparently it's flexible PCB has it's copper supply traces on the back, and is just covered in black paint, which wore thru and then touched the chrome bars jsut enough to cause the 20g (or smaller) supply wire to melt, but AFAICT only inside the triangle area and only for the few inches between the massive cable bundle and the point it connects to the main star-conection of light-batt-positive there.

I cut back the bundle insulation a ways and found no sign of melting insulation or other damage, so I guess the bunlde heatsunk that wire and kept it from mleting, while the open-air part didnt' get any airflow and overheated and melted. The inch or so closest to the star connection also didn't melt(heatsunk by all those other wires, I guess).

Thankfuly this iwre didn't touch and melt against any others, or I'd ve probably had a recurrence of the incident almost a year ago where I screwwed up while wiring stuff with power on, and destroyed a whole wire bundle/cable doing that.


I reinsulated the LED strips on the bars and remounted them, so that shouldnt' happen again, repaired the damaged wire, and now it seems to be fine.



In the process of fixing the strips on the bars, I also found that my continuously-clicking turn signal unit problem (which recently started doing that again, after weeks of not doing it) is acutally caused by a wire issue (not known what exactly yet) right where the wires from the switch come out of the handlebar mounted control unit.

I strpped insulation back and see no problem there, so I gotta open up the unit and see....

I never seem to be so lucky as to have the smoke release without losing the wire too!

Paint as insulation is a kind of novel, weight saving, ultra-low-buck technique - I'll be watching out for it!

Meanwhile, I got your post about the music; about all I can think of in response is to just keep it alive in you and let it out when you can! I get used computer equipment all the time to re-purpose into my server farm. There might be some good places to put up a notice that you're interested in that sort of thing along the route you regularly take for work and errands - schools & churches often have a bulletin board and probably wouldn't mind. Just emphasize you're going to re-use as much as is salvageable, and not to worry about whatever problems the hardware may have. ...Now that I think of it, I could use some more hardware about now!

I don't usually get that lucky with the wire either; last time I had to replace the entire multiwire cable, literallly right after I'd finished installing and wiring it up, because of a stupid mistake right at the last moment.


I think I forgot to mention in the last writeup that the chain kept derailing when rolling the bike backwards, coming off the IGH input sprocket on top. I found that I'd put the sprocket on backwards; there's a couple mm difference one way vs the other in chainline. Flipped it and fixed that.

While I was at it, since I had to take the IGH off agian to do this, I opened it up a bit and filled it with grease, since it's oil port is broken and the "seal" cup on the right side is missing (dunno when I lost it, but it's alos missing from the other (broken; doesn't shift, stuck in highest gear) version of this same Shimano 333 hub).

Mostly I needed to grease it because the freewheel in it was sticky, from gunk getting in the outer bearings (due to lack of "seal" cup), so pedalling backwards to realign the pedals at stops (so I can push first with my right leg, which hurts less than the left doing that) was just sagging up the chain in a loop at the top. But it doesn't hurt to grease the gears too.




Regarding picking up used computers--these days it's a lot harder to get them from strangers--too many are worried about personal data and don't understand that if they just keep or destroy the harddisk there's nothing left on the machine. I do still get some stuff now and then from individuals, but mostly people I know that upgrade.


Goodwill and the like no longer accept computers (if they get them they destroy them completely in their crushers) because of the data thing, which is absurd--they could just take out the harddisk...but they don't. (although I sometimes find bare harddisks there!) Similarly, schools and any other government-associated places also destroy the entire thing, or if they don't they destroy the whole thing they destroy anything with a memory chip on it, including the motherboard, ram sticks, harddisks, video card, etc.

I'm sure some escape this sort of thing, but I haven't found them yet. :/

I haven't tried churches, so I suppose that's an option. I've posted on Freecycle and Craigslist; rarely get any hits though, and havent' tried in quite some time now.

amberwolf said:

Regarding picking up used computers--these days it's a lot harder to get them from strangers--too many are worried about personal data and don't understand that if they just keep or destroy the hard disk there's nothing left on the machine. I do still get some stuff now and then from individuals, but mostly people I know that upgrade.

Click to expand...

Maybe include in your ad something about "keep your hard drive, or destroy it - that's where your sensitive information is stored", or words to that effect... Couldn't hurt, though it makes your ad longer! :wink:

RTIII said:

amberwolf said:

Regarding picking up used computers--these days it's a lot harder to get them from strangers--too many are worried about personal data and don't understand that if they just keep or destroy the hard disk there's nothing left on the machine. I do still get some stuff now and then from individuals, but mostly people I know that upgrade.

Click to expand...

Maybe include in your ad something about "keep your hard drive, or destroy it - that's where your sensitive information is stored", or words to that effect... Couldn't hurt, though it makes your ad longer! :wink:

Click to expand...

I open my old hard drives and harvest the neodymium magnets. Woohoo! Lots-o-fun!

Thanks to wturber's leftover old hardware, I now finally after four and a half years have a music computer system as good as (significantly better, actually) my old one lost in the fire, details over here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72867&p=1337021#p1337021

What I came to post about though, was my stupidity leaving me basically stranded as I left work tonight.

The left side tire was completely flat as I clocked out in the breakroom; I inflated it just a bit with the tiny little 12v pump I keep in the toolbox, but before I even got to the front of the store it was completely flat again. It was already late so we had to set the alarm and leave, so I ended up ahving to sit out front and see if I could find the leak to patch it--only to find I didn't have anything to do any patching with. Apparently I left all teh repair stuff somewhere at home last time I worked on the trike's seatbox (probably when I was doing the wiring stuff a while back).

If I'd found the problem before the store closed, there are actually a number of things I could've used off teh shelf that would've at least gotten me home. But by 10pm there's nothing open in the area, and I can''t just leave the trike and walk somewhere, even if there was something open within hobbling distance.

I could of course ride home on the flat, but it'd destroy the tube and tire for sure, and probably at least damage the rim.

I didn't really have any friends I could call at this time of night to bring me anything, and definitely couldn't get anyone to take me and the trike home (it's too heavy to lift with just two people). Thankfully my brother Raine was both home and awake, and willing to take an Uber to bring me stuff from home, and I'd pay him back for the trip.

So I had him grab the bottle of Slime, the self-powered air pump (much better than the little crappy one I had with me), and a few 20" bicycle tubes in case I couldn't fix the moped tube already in the wheel, and bring them up via Uber.

While he was on the way, I decided to do it the "easy" way and just take the wheel off and pull the tube out so I could just put in one of the others when he got to me, so I didn't have to deal with trying to fix anything and *then* replacing it. Even so, it was still after 11pm by the time I got done, and Raine took Uber back home (not willing to ride side by side on the bench seat of the trike; isn't padded enough for his back and joints), and I rode home on the trike.

Then I had a nap after greeting the "starving" dogs (dinner over an hour late :lol: ) and feeding them. Woke up and couldn't go back to sleep so am posting this hoping to doze off again.

I'm leaving all teh fixit stuff in the bakc of the trike for the time being in case I need it again.







FWIW, the crappy pump takes like 5 minutes to put a few PSI into just a bare tube--I knew from previous experience it wasnt' very good, and I'd meant to put my better (non-self-powered) pump back on the tirke, but it takes several times more room, so it needs to be "reworked" so it only houses the bare pump to save space--I might get it down to just a little more space than the crappy one.

I might rebuild it's housing that can contain an extra tube or two, patches, maybe a little bottle of slime, then it'd be worth teh space it takes--right now it's mostly just wasted volume.

Bummer. I was actually in your general area last night at around 10P. Coulda swung by Wally World and picked up some Slime and or a patch kit for you. Sent my TN to you in a PM.