Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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Samson
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Samson » Nov 14, 2017 8:22 am

amberwolf wrote:
Samson wrote: the A flag flashes indicating that the CA3 is current limiting. I tried first increasing the Max Amps to 25 from the 12 Amps I normally run with no change.
What is the actual current it's reaching?
I found the problem. I updated the firmware to 3.1 beta 13 which did not immediately solve the problem as I used the same parameter values as the 3.03 version. But the new version showed that the S (Speed) flag was flashing just before the A flag. Version 3.03 did not flash the S flag ever. As the max speed was set at 60Kph and I never reach this it seemed odd that the S flag would flip. I decided to go into the PID parameters. Reducing DSGain from 300 to 100 stopped the dip. This seemed to contradict the manual where it suggests that the DSGain should be increased to dampen oscillation but it seems to have done the trick.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by tanstaafl » Nov 14, 2017 10:40 am

It's very strange, but the problem seems to have gone away overnight! I didn't make any changes at all after my earlier update, but this morning there's no "dead throttle" problem. It responds from the very beginning. I'm going to continue to tweak the parameters to eliminate any remaining "pulsing" (mostly from PAS, not the throttle anymore), but I'll carefully and slowly change one parameter at a time. I don't understand how the problem could just disappear like this...
tanstaafl wrote:I'm having a strange problem with my CAv3. It's running the latest beta firmware. I recently increased my battery voltage to 60v nominal (from 36v) and I now notice a much more pronounced "pulsing" from both my throttle control and from my torque-PAS (TDCM). I've decreased both AGain and WGain a bunch, and the pulsing has decreased, but it's still there. As I decreased the gains, my throttle has started behaving "funny". I don't get any motor response until I "floor" the throttle, but after it starts up, I have reasonable control over the whole range. The throttle itself is working -- I can see the indicator change on the main CA display -- but I get no acceleration until I've moved it all the way. (and the pulsing is still there) (BTW, didn't mention this at first, but I've have the throttle set to control Amp -- but it had the same problem in pass-through mode -- maybe because of my watt limits?).

What are reasonable values fro AGain and WGain? The starting values seemed strange to me -- AGain was something like 150. I've reduced it an order of magnitude and will probably take it lower still. UPDATE: still a problem at 10. WGain was much lower and I've reduced it to 7. I'm still noticing the "pulsing" however from both PAS and manual throttle control.

BTW, everything was better with the 36v battery. I probably needed to adjust the settings a little bit, but they weren't bad (not nearly as bad as I'm noticing now, even after lowering the gains a TON).

Can anybody suggest some other parameter that I should tweak?

2nd Update: I just lowered the UpRate to 1.0 and the FastRate to 1.5. Still feel some surging when I'm using the torque-PAS. I'm able to hold a steady power level with the throttle now. However, I have "the worst of both worlds" instead of the best -- maxing out the throttle control doesn't seem to be enough to get things started (at least, not without a _long_ delay). If I peddle and PAS kicks in the motor power, however, the throttle then becomes instantly responsive and I can pretty much set whatever level I like and hold it there. It would be nice if I could just get a nice, smooth response while I peddle and only have to use the throttle when I'm climbing the big (15% slope) hill. Also, one other tidbit -- the upper watt limit that I set, 1000w, seems to be held pretty consistently. If I've maxed out the throttle, I notice the watt output stays really close to 1000 (maybe 980 or 990, then up to 1010 or 1020 most of the time). So I don't think the WGain is the reason I have the surging problem from the Torque-PAS. If there's any other information I can provide, or any settings I should try, please let me know.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Nov 14, 2017 2:24 pm

Problems disappearing suddenly usually indicates a connection issue somewhere, either at a contact surface, contact crimp, inside a wire, etc.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Nov 14, 2017 3:52 pm

tanstaafl wrote:It's very strange, but the problem seems to have gone away overnight!
The limit flags should have been telling you what was causing the surging, but the general lethargic throttle and disappearing issue smacks of a problem with the Speed PID and a wonky setting for IntSGain.

Post up a settings file and we can eyeball it to see if there's any obvious config issues.
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Re: Brightening CA Backlight

Post by ebike11 » Nov 18, 2017 3:47 am

teklektik wrote:
Oct 02, 2017 11:18 am
ebike11 wrote: actually both CA3s are running on the same battery pack. just one CA3 is brighter than the other straight out of the box.
I am not confident opening the CA3s up.
Anyhow, since you don't feel comfortable cracking the case, you can go after this by directly increasing the 5V regulator load with an external resistor. This is probably the 'hackiest' strategy, but will work fine if you need a no-messing-with-CA-internals approach - just pay attention to the overall current inventory as mentioned above. So - you might try jumping a 1K resistor across the +5V and Gnd pins of the AuxPot or Throttle connectors. This would boost the current draw 5V/1K = 5ma which will visibly brighten the backlight. You could make up a super short M/F JST pass-through extender that has the power leads jumpered with the resistor of choice (use a small 1/8 or 1/10W part - there's no power to speak of). This would let you do the fabrication off the bike on the bench and then just plug in the gizmo when it's ready with no chance of taking your bike out of service with a fabrication accident.
Hi again Teklektic...I got some 1k resistors from aliexpress. I connected it to this connector that will plug into the AUX of the CA3
Looking to increase the CA3 brightness a tad.
Of course ill shrink wrap everything.
Would adding 2 1k resistors twisted together harm anything? Thanks

https://postimg.org/image/rmm01o63l/

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Re: Brightening CA Backlight

Post by teklektik » Nov 18, 2017 11:44 am

ebike11 wrote:
Nov 18, 2017 3:47 am
Would adding 2 1k resistors twisted together harm anything?
Wiring two resistors in parallel will add another 5ma to the current draw for a total of 10ma (i.e. (1K)||(1K) = 0.5K, 5V/0.5K = 10ma).

You need to look in the Guide to see what you total current draw will be vs your battery voltage to see if this is doable w/o cooking the CA 5V regulator. Should work fine if Vbatt is low enough and you're not driving a PAS torque sensor (you may have mentioned details in the past, but I don't remember...).
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Re: Brightening CA Backlight

Post by ebike11 » Nov 18, 2017 7:48 pm

teklektik wrote:
Nov 18, 2017 11:44 am
ebike11 wrote:
Nov 18, 2017 3:47 am
Would adding 2 1k resistors twisted together harm anything?
Wiring two resistors in parallel will add another 5ma to the current draw for a total of 10ma (i.e. (1K)||(1K) = 0.5K, 5V/0.5K = 10ma).

You need to look in the Guide to see what you total current draw will be vs your battery voltage to see if this is doable w/o cooking the CA 5V regulator. Should work fine if Vbatt is low enough and you're not driving a PAS torque sensor (you may have mentioned details in the past, but I don't remember...).
Hi again!
Oh i dont need to run 2 together. I was just wondering.
So for the time being ill just try the single 1k resistor. Is it ok the way i wired it in the photo i attached? It will go to the white Aux male plug on the CA. I dont wanna zap my screen, so i wanna be sure. Thanks

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Re: Brightening CA Backlight

Post by teklektik » Nov 18, 2017 9:22 pm

ebike11 wrote:
Nov 18, 2017 7:48 pm
Is it ok the way i wired it in the photo i attached?
It will go to the white Aux male plug on the CA.
Not quite. Please revise as shown below - hook the resistor across the power leads and leave the signal lead unused...

CA_backlightHack.png
CA_backlightHack.png (143.2 KiB) Viewed 548 times
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Re: Brightening CA Backlight

Post by ebike11 » Nov 19, 2017 2:55 am

teklektik wrote:
Nov 18, 2017 9:22 pm
ebike11 wrote:
Nov 18, 2017 7:48 pm
Is it ok the way i wired it in the photo i attached?
It will go to the white Aux male plug on the CA.
Not quite. Please revise as shown below - hook the resistor across the power leads and leave the signal lead unused...


CA_backlightHack.png
Oh ok i thought the positive and negative were on the ends of the connector

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Re: Adding CA Connector to Generic Controller

Post by ebike11 » Dec 03, 2017 12:02 am

teklektik wrote:
Oct 03, 2017 11:13 am
ebike11 wrote:
CA-genericController3.png
Hi Tekletik, I followed the above diagram for my Infineon controller and it worked well.
However i just changed controllers and motors. The rear motor is now bigger so i bought a 72V 50A 18fet controller. The controller was ordered from a separate seller than the motor.

Im also still using the Grin external shunt and wired the shunt green wire to controller green and the 3 throttle wires to the CA directly.

I can see the throttle icon bar go up and down but the motor doesnt spin. Would you have an idea what the problem could be? Thx

Note: the diagram you posted is on page 151

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Re: Adding CA Connector to Generic Controller

Post by teklektik » Dec 03, 2017 1:16 am

ebike11 wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 12:02 am
However i just changed controllers and motors. The rear motor is now bigger so i bought a 72V 50A 18fet controller. The controller was ordered from a separate seller than the motor.

Im also still using the Grin external shunt and wired the shunt green wire to controller green and the 3 throttle wires to the CA directly.

I can see the throttle icon bar go up and down but the motor doesnt spin. Would you have an idea what the problem could be?
Always check the Throttle OUT field on the Diagnostic screen to see the actual voltages applied to the controller. If the OUT voltage is varying with throttle application but your controller is not responding then you either have
  1. a wiring error on the controller or
  2. you may have failed to go through the Throttle OUT installation/tuning steps in the Guide for the new controller.
I suspect (2) and your ThrO->MinOut is set too high causing the controller to fault on power up because it thinks you are applying throttle -- even though the operator throttle is at ZERO. The whole point of that annoying installation step is to tune the CA for the specific controller and it may be that the throttle ranges of your old and new controllers are just different enough to cause this behavior.
Last edited by teklektik on Dec 03, 2017 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adding CA Connector to Generic Controller

Post by ebike11 » Dec 03, 2017 1:59 am

teklektik wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 1:16 am
ebike11 wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 12:02 am
However i just changed controllers and motors. The rear motor is now bigger so i bought a 72V 50A 18fet controller. The controller was ordered from a separate seller than the motor.

Im also still using the Grin external shunt and wired the shunt green wire to controller green and the 3 throttle wires to the CA directly.

I can see the throttle icon bar go up and down but the motor doesnt spin. Would you have an idea what the problem could be?
Always check the Throttle OUT field on the Diagnostic screen to see the actual voltages applied to the controller. If the OUT voltage is varying with throttle application but your controller is not responding then you either have
  1. a wiring error on the controller or
  2. you may have failed to go through the Throttle OUT installation/tuning steps in the Guide for the new controller.
I suspect (2) and your ThrO->MinOut is set too high causing the controller to fault on power up because it thinks you are applying throttle - even though the operator throttle is at ZERO. The whole point of that annoying installation step is to tune the CA for the specific controller and it may be that the throttle ranges of your old and new controllers are just different enough to cause this behavior.
Yes i think it was number 2. Whenever i twist the throttle quickly the motor doesnt move. It takes 2 seconds of holding it WOT or so before the motor kicks in then at WOT it doesnt maintain top speed. It seems to cut power and decrease soeed after a couple of seconds.

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Re: Adding CA Connector to Generic Controller

Post by teklektik » Dec 03, 2017 9:37 am

ebike11 wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 1:59 am
teklektik wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 1:16 am
ebike11 wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 12:02 am
I can see the throttle icon bar go up and down but the motor doesnt spin.
...
I suspect (2) and your ThrO->MinOut is set too high...
Yes i think it was number 2. Whenever i twist the throttle quickly the motor doesnt move. It takes 2 seconds of holding it WOT or so before the motor kicks in then at WOT it doesnt maintain top speed. It seems to cut power and decrease soeed after a couple of seconds.
Does that mean you fixed the original problem and have a new issue or that you didn't fully describe the original problem?

You need to go back to defaults (PassThru mode, etc) and follow the complete throttle/ramping/gain setup procedure again so you can properly evaluate your problem by examining the Limit Flags. etc. I recommend you run 3.1b20 as the latest available firmware. This has proper 'S' Limit flag support for too-large-DSGain settings (which may be your issue).
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Re: Adding CA Connector to Generic Controller

Post by ebike11 » Dec 06, 2017 6:03 pm

teklektik wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 9:37 am
ebike11 wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 1:59 am
teklektik wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 1:16 am
ebike11 wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 12:02 am
I can see the throttle icon bar go up and down but the motor doesnt spin.
...
I suspect (2) and your ThrO->MinOut is set too high...
Yes i think it was number 2. Whenever i twist the throttle quickly the motor doesnt move. It takes 2 seconds of holding it WOT or so before the motor kicks in then at WOT it doesnt maintain top speed. It seems to cut power and decrease soeed after a couple of seconds.
Does that mean you fixed the original problem and have a new issue or that you didn't fully describe the original problem?

You need to go back to defaults (PassThru mode, etc) and follow the complete throttle/ramping/gain setup procedure again so you can properly evaluate your problem by examining the Limit Flags. etc. I recommend you run 3.1b20 as the latest available firmware. This has proper 'S' Limit flag support for too-large-DSGain settings (which may be your issue).
Ok thx...i get the new software installed this weekend and start with the settings. Is Pass thru mode always for controllers using the Grin shunt?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Dec 07, 2017 8:40 am

No. PassThru mode is the simple default throttle mode you need to use to do the setup in the Guide. The other throttle modes cannot be used to tune the throttle settings since they're fly by wire instead of directly tracking the operator throttle rotation.
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Re: Adding CA Connector to Generic Controller

Post by ebike11 » Dec 09, 2017 4:21 am

teklektik wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 9:37 am
ebike11 wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 1:59 am
teklektik wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 1:16 am
ebike11 wrote:
Dec 03, 2017 12:02 am
I can see the throttle icon bar go up and down but the motor doesnt spin.
...
I suspect (2) and your ThrO->MinOut is set too high...
Yes i think it was number 2. Whenever i twist the throttle quickly the motor doesnt move. It takes 2 seconds of holding it WOT or so before the motor kicks in then at WOT it doesnt maintain top speed. It seems to cut power and decrease soeed after a couple of seconds.
Does that mean you fixed the original problem and have a new issue or that you didn't fully describe the original problem?

You need to go back to defaults (PassThru mode, etc) and follow the complete throttle/ramping/gain setup procedure again so you can properly evaluate your problem by examining the Limit Flags. etc. I recommend you run 3.1b20 as the latest available firmware. This has proper 'S' Limit flag support for too-large-DSGain settings (which may be your issue).
Hi there..i had time to try and update my fkrmware. I used the 3.1b20 hex file and everything seemed to load smoothly. The firmware utility screen on the computer changed to green but at the end of the process i looked at the CA screen and it just says Disabled.
I disconnected and reconnected power but the message still displays.
Is there any way to fix this? I was on 3.03 before flashing thanks

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Re: Adding CA Connector to Generic Controller

Post by teklektik » Dec 09, 2017 11:13 am

ebike11 wrote:
Dec 09, 2017 4:21 am
I used the 3.1b20 hex file and ...
There are two.
Sounds like you used the NoEeprom version which is incorrect for a 3.0x upgrade as described in the included documentation files.
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Re: Adding CA Connector to Generic Controller

Post by ebike11 » Dec 09, 2017 11:50 am

teklektik wrote:
Dec 09, 2017 11:13 am
ebike11 wrote:
Dec 09, 2017 4:21 am
I used the 3.1b20 hex file and ...
There are two.
Sounds like you used the NoEeprom version which is incorrect for a 3.0x upgrade as described in the included documentation files.
Oh ill have to check..if thats the case..do you know how to reenable the CA? I have the programming cable. I hope its not serious

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Dec 09, 2017 5:43 pm

Start the download in the Setup Utility - THEN power up the CA - the download will begin before the CA enters the main application.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Dec 09, 2017 10:24 pm

teklektik wrote:
Dec 09, 2017 5:43 pm
Start the download in the Setup Utility - THEN power up the CA - the download will begin before the CA enters the main application.
Do you mean.....connect the TTL CA USB cable from the computer to the CA with the CA/bike OFF the when i download setup utility power on the CA?

I have the setup utility already downloaded though on my computer

Also should i use the same TTL CA-USB Cable that is for flashing firmware? I think I have another grin cable here but its not in front of me at the moment

Here is the CA display
https://s7.postimg.org/bup8kg6ln/20171210_165415.jpg
I did in fact successfully upgrade my second CA to 3.1b13 but I used the wrong eeprom for this CA

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by RTIII » Dec 10, 2017 1:00 pm

ebike11 wrote:
Dec 09, 2017 10:24 pm
teklektik wrote:
Dec 09, 2017 5:43 pm
Start the download in the Setup Utility - THEN power up the CA - the download will begin before the CA enters the main application.
Do you mean.....connect the TTL CA USB cable from the computer to the CA with the CA/bike OFF the when i download setup utility power on the CA?

I have the setup utility already downloaded though on my computer

Also should i use the same TTL CA-USB Cable that is for flashing firmware? I think I have another grin cable here but its not in front of me at the moment

Here is the CA display
https://s7.postimg.org/bup8kg6ln/20171210_165415.jpg
I did in fact successfully upgrade my second CA to 3.1b13 but I used the wrong eeprom for this CA
SURELY all that is in the documentation, no? If not, or if the documentation is unclear, it would be FAR more valuable to the community if you cite what documentation you're following, excerpt a small bit of what it says and how that contrasts with your experience. Since you omit any reference to such things, it seems apparent that you're just using this space to be lazy and not bother to read the documentation yourself and thereby wasting a lot of people's time - it's not just you and the Grin people reading this thread, you know. Using this thread as a personal-chat-line with Grin support also makes it harder for people to find valuable information contained in the thread - it's already closing in on FOUR THOUSAND comments. Please be considerate of others.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by tomjasz » Dec 10, 2017 3:25 pm

1 Grin owns the forum
2 CA3 is their product
3 teklektik is willing to give incredible support rather than us waiting days for back and forth email.
4 I struggle with the manual and learn far more here. Including this last exchange...increased back lighting isn't in the manual.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Dec 10, 2017 4:04 pm

RTIII wrote:
Dec 10, 2017 1:00 pm
ebike11 wrote:
Dec 09, 2017 10:24 pm
teklektik wrote:
Dec 09, 2017 5:43 pm
Start the download in the Setup Utility - THEN power up the CA - the download will begin before the CA enters the main application.
Do you mean.....connect the TTL CA USB cable from the computer to the CA with the CA/bike OFF the when i download setup utility power on the CA?

I have the setup utility already downloaded though on my computer

Also should i use the same TTL CA-USB Cable that is for flashing firmware? I think I have another grin cable here but its not in front of me at the moment

Here is the CA display
https://s7.postimg.org/bup8kg6ln/20171210_165415.jpg
I did in fact successfully upgrade my second CA to 3.1b13 but I used the wrong eeprom for this CA
SURELY all that is in the documentation, no? If not, or if the documentation is unclear, it would be FAR more valuable to the community if you cite what documentation you're following, excerpt a small bit of what it says and how that contrasts with your experience. Since you omit any reference to such things, it seems apparent that you're just using this space to be lazy and not bother to read the documentation yourself and thereby wasting a lot of people's time - it's not just you and the Grin people reading this thread, you know. Using this thread as a personal-chat-line with Grin support also makes it harder for people to find valuable information contained in the thread - it's already closing in on FOUR THOUSAND comments. Please be considerate of others.
I greatly appreciate Teklektiks support! Its one reason why i bought many Grin products.
I have not seen any "Disabled" screen error message in the manual. My bike is out of order now but it was my fault so im trying tonfigure out how to fix it.
As well..when I have PMed members on forums most say please post in the forum so other people can learn if they have a similar problem.
Also 4000 posts can be seen as a positive thing. It means people have or are interested in a great product

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Dec 10, 2017 4:43 pm

tomjasz wrote:
Dec 10, 2017 3:25 pm
1 Grin owns the forum
2 CA3 is their product
3 teklektik is willing to give incredible support rather than us waiting days for back and forth email.
4 I struggle with the manual and learn far more here. Including this last exchange...increased back lighting isn't in the manual.
Yes thx to teklektik...the resistor on the aux wires did increase brightness slightly. Im satisfied

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Dec 10, 2017 9:14 pm

ebike11 wrote:
Dec 09, 2017 10:24 pm
teklektik wrote:
Dec 09, 2017 5:43 pm
Start the download in the Setup Utility - THEN power up the CA - the download will begin before the CA enters the main application.
Do you mean.....
I believe what has happened is that either (1) you flashed the wrong FW file that only loads the app and not does not initialize the EEPROM or (2) have flashed b20 correctly but downloaded an old settings file. When the CA starts up it is totally confused with the earlier EEPROM data on the later FW. The 'Disabled' message is just the mindless ranting of a very confused application - it doesn't mean anything.

So - you need to reflash using CA3-1b20_firmware.hex using the regular programming cable. The trick here is to start the flash before you turn on the CA. This will get it into download mode before it looks at the confusing EEPROM data. Then you will need to re-enter all your settings from scratch - which sucks - but we're working on that particular PITA...
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