Bitcoins

[Arlo1]

1 Bitcoin is worth $22,192usd

CDN....

Right now its $16,xxx USD

https://www.google.ca/search?q=bitcoin+ ... e&ie=UTF-8

[TheBeastie]

I have watched a few CNBC interviews with cyrpto-coin heads. They interviewed the CEO/Founder of Litecoin and the presenters made some points that made current crypto coins look stupid.
Aside from just saying why would I invest in Bitcoin when there are 1000s of alternatives that work better with the better more robust comparatively fee-less technology they also brought in professional markets people who said the next major blockchain idea is to put stocks etc into blockchain so that people are carrying something that actually holds value behind it.
This way you get all the convenience of a virtualized commodity but it actually holds something real, for example, a piece of Google or Apple stock.
The ultimate argument they were making is that if blockchain is the disrupting technology of Bitcoin than there is no argument that blockchain will disrupt Bitcoin entirely and Bitcoin will be worth nothing.

No one in there right mind is going to want to hold a crypto coin that has nothing behind it but perceived value vs a crypto coin that holds a piece of Google or the S&P 500 and has all the advantages of existing crypto coins.

[Arlo1]

Holding stock of a company is worse the holding paper money.
Bitcoin can adapt to many things other crypto tries to offer, but its limited to 21 million coins

[markz]

Waaaaay back when, an ancient civilization used stones called "RAI" as their currency. The biggest rocks were worth the most, and no they could not even be moved.

From the list below, shark teeth were used, arrow heads/knives, shells. can add crypto-currenct to that list now.... I guess
http://www.mba-in-finance.org/10-bizarr ... -currency/

On the island of Yap in Micronesia, size matters. Some evidence suggests that the Yapese people may have been creating their rai stones since around 500 AD. To produce this unusual form of currency, the Yapese traveled to the neighboring island of Palau to obtain limestone. They shaped the stone into big circular discs with central holes. These were then transported on a long, perilous voyage back to Yap. Some stones measured as much as 12 feet across and weighed over four tons. The stones’ dangerous – and sometimes fatal – production process increased their value. But once they’d been used for payment, their location often remained unchanged. In fact, a physical exchange may not have been necessary, as long as everyone knew to whom the rai belonged. Their value diminished with the arrival of the Europeans, whose technology quickly increased production. Today, rai stones are used in traditional rites and remain a national emblem. Their image is also proudly displayed on Yapese license plates.

[Dauntless]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/18/investi ... index.html

Futures. Yeah that's the future.

[Dauntless]

Maybe not.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/19/investi ... index.html

[Dauntless]

Sounds like a drinking decision to me.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/21/investi ... index.html

[Dauntless]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.coinde ... mp/?espv=1

[markz]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.coinde ... mp/?espv=1

WOW!

Each of the top 20 cryptocurrencies by market capitalization hit an all-time price high in the past four days, according to market data.

[Dauntless]

So they're definitely not perfectly safe, but will there be any safety to Bitcoin?

http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2017/12 ... index.html

[Dauntless]

So they were singing 'Up up and away, in my beautiful, my beautiful BALLOON. . . .'

They've been interrupted by '. . . .POP goes the weazel!'

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/22/investi ... index.html

[Dauntless]

Looks like Bitcoin won't make it under $10k by new years', but its on the way.

Meanwhile, there are other buds in the tulip garden.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.coinde ... mp/?espv=1

[markz]

The thing with mining Crypto currency is you need thousands of dog hairs just to play the game. You dont need a good cpu, not much ram, but the gpu's are expensive!

[Arlo1]

Looks like Bitcoin won't make it under $10k by new years', but its on the way.

Meanwhile, there are other buds in the tulip garden.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.coinde ... mp/?espv=1

Normal bit coin stuff in the early adoption phase. Jumps 2000% then falls to 60% of that then slowly gains ground again.
By 2020 we will see 100k bitcoin maybe not 1million per coin that early but $100k is very likely.

[Ohbse]

We would see those prices if current rates of speculation were to continue, however I don't think it will for a couple reasons

One, Bitcoin is currently broken. In 2013 I could send a transaction in minutes and it would cost <1c. Today to achieve the same confirmation time you may need to be *hundreds* of $, or if you're willing to wait $10-20. This is due to years of political infighting amongst the development team and miners. Essentially a core group of individuals have imposed their opinion that scaling up is bad, fees are good and bitcoin is a 'store of value' not a usable currency, despite that being completely contrary to the original vision. In their view a second layer solution is required to provide the ability to perform actual transactions, with the blockchain functioning as back end clearance layer. This would perhaps be fine if that solution actually existed in functional form, or was actually superior to the alternatives - unfortunately it doesn't/isn't.

Two, because it's broken, its adoption as a currency is slowing. You've had a few big name companies remove support for it entirely and others impose substantial minimum transactions that remove its potential use for mere mortals. Once upon a time I could pay my ISP, my power company and my cellphone bill with bitcoin. Those days are long gone. Bitcoin has lost the majority of its 'market share' in the crypto currency world, largely due to its shortcomings around speed/cost. As this hasn't changed (it has in fact become orders of magnitude WORSE just in recent months) I see no reason why that trend of losing market share will stop.

The bitcoin community is divided and vitriolic, they're worse than trump vs hillary people when you start talking about development strategies or forks. It's primarily composed of people like yourselves that have big visions of its future potential and intend to hold until it reaches their own personal 'moon'. Unfortunately that doesn't drive adoption, it doesn't actually deliver value and if everyone was to do so would result in catastrophic death spiral.

[Arlo1]

This is a very short window of time.

In the great big picture 5 years or what ever its been compared to the 120 years until all the mining is done. I would not expect total adoption until something like 2030 or even 2050. It will grow until then. Unless the idoits don't fix the problems but I don't see that happening. I think there is no reason to be so stupid and just let it die. That's like building the best EV ever like a Tesla with a 2 speed tranny and it makes a failure point so you can let your new company die or you can address the issues creating the problem and move forward to CRUSH the industry.

Bitcoin is the one with a lot of publicity it has the biggest chance if they fix the issues...

[Ohbse]

I suggest you look into the segwit/lightning network and form your own opinions, I'm confident bitcoin will be around, but I'm much less confident it will be the current BTC chain.

An amusing write up for the uninitiated: https://hackernoon.com/chapter-one-alic ... a315aeef62

If you held bitcoin prior to the fork, you already have some BCH, so doesn't matter so much which one wins out in the end if you're planning on holding long term. If you don't have any.. now's an excellent time to diversify.

[neptronix]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/28/investi ... index.html

That was quite a fall. OUCH!

Yes, but you have to think longer than that if you want to succeed in investing at all.
And if you want to get ahead in our monetary system, you need to invest.

I'm still holding by BTC. So is everyone else i know. It's the newbies that jumped ship early.
But i made sure to diversify my coin portfolio. I also bought ethereum, ripple, lumens, cardano, ark, monero, dash, BCH, and NEM.
The value of my BTC plunged, but pretty much everything else i own has risen in value. I lost nothing because i diversified. And as we wake up from this short bear market, it's gains from here on..

[neptronix]

I suggest you look into the segwit/lightning network and form your own opinions, I'm confident bitcoin will be around, but I'm much less confident it will be the current BTC chain.

An amusing write up for the uninitiated: https://hackernoon.com/chapter-one-alic ... a315aeef62

If you held bitcoin prior to the fork, you already have some BCH, so doesn't matter so much which one wins out in the end if you're planning on holding long term. If you don't have any.. now's an excellent time to diversify.

I personally don't like BCH or BTC. I just have money in both on the off chance that bitcoin core eventually gets it's shit together and continues doing the magic trick it did for many years.. and i have money in bitcoin cash because the corrupt people behind it might actually win this battle and we see BCH do the magic trick.

I really think the future of cryptocurrency is in currencies that are using different methods such as lumens, ripple, iota, etc though so that's where a majority of my portfolio is. Bitcoin and all it's little forks are legacy technology at the moment..

[neptronix]

The thing with mining Crypto currency is you need thousands of dog hairs just to play the game. You dont need a good cpu, not much ram, but the gpu's are expensive!

It takes a while to amortize the hardware you invested in... it can take up to a year in some instances.
I got lucky. I started on ethereum and the price climbed to the point where i paid off my hardware in about 4 months.

I would have made waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more money if i would have put that $400 into buying two ethereum when it was around $200.

So mining is really for suckers unless you have idle equipment just laying around that you've already bought for other purposes.

I could have turned $400 into $1600 but instead, i broke even because i bought a graphics card.
But.... at least the graphics card will go to use in my wife's computer once ethereum is no longer feasible to mine

[Dauntless]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.coinde ... mp/?espv=1

It has lost 1/3rd and he responds by saying that.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/28/investi ... index.html

That was quite a fall. OUCH!

Yes, but you have to think longer than that if you want to succeed in investing at all.
And if you want to get ahead in our monetary system , you need to invest.

As someone whose career never became fulltime but owns a CALIFORNIA house, gets the occasional new car, etc., I could explain far more than most here are ready to understand or even care about with the joys of the financial market. As long as people refuse to recognize that crypto is even more vaporware than internet stock in 2000.

Warren Buffet decried the nonsense and was vilified. The net result was that he would once again prove he was 'The Oracle of Omaha.' https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/12/08/whe ... money.html

Its an old saying and its quite true: There are no victims, only volunteers. Because you WANT to believe. But there's no point in believing Bitcoin is Amazon. Because Bitcoin is Enron. Which went up close to TEN THOUSAND PERCENT!

At first. . . .

As I like to say ". . . .And the mouse eats cheese. . ."

At first. . . .

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 9bMgp8DD4U

[markz]

Maybe playing the cryptocurrency market, buying and selling, not mining.

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

I'm still holding by BTC. So is everyone else i know. It's the newbies that jumped ship early.
But i made sure to diversify my coin portfolio. I also bought ethereum, ripple, lumens, cardano, ark, monero, dash, BCH, and NEM.

wino applecoin or googlecoin?
i would half expectored either uv zem to kleened up bye now.

As someone whose career never became fulltime but owns a CALIFORNIA house, gets the occasional new car, etc.,

delightful as ever your wee-shillelagh making an appearance.
could use these keep it warm & cozy during these winter months.

[neptronix]

It has lost 1/3rd and he responds by saying that.

The stock market has done that multiple times. Individual stocks do that all the time. Bitcoin has had larger corrections in the past. Bitcoin's price is recovering.. meanwhile, other coins have blown up in value and rebounded well beyond their values during the crash. I have made money on all the other coins even though i invested during a high months ago.

I also have little faith in bitcoin.. i am mostly betting on the second wave of cryptocurrency technologies that will replace it. Bitcoin went from being 85% of the market cap, to 36% and shrinking.. there's plenty of good reasons for that.

As someone whose career never became fulltime but owns a CALIFORNIA house, gets the occasional new car, etc., I could explain far more than most here are ready to understand or even care about with the joys of the financial market. As long as people refuse to recognize that crypto is even more vaporware than internet stock in 2000.

Oh, so you know what it's like to own an asset that has wild price fluctuations too, and is built on literally a shaky foundation..

I don't disagree with crypto looking like early internet stocks. I think that's a great analogy. The technology is young and the hype levels are large. Although you cannot compare a currency to a stock. When i started investing in crypto, i thought that way, and it lead to a lot of bad decisions early on.

Warren Buffet decried the nonsense and was vilified. The net result was that he would once again prove he was 'The Oracle of Omaha.' https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/12/08/whe ... money.html

Well, so far every respected investor has been wrong about cryptocurrency as a whole. Wrong for many years. Wrong as a gold bug telling you to buy gold because there'll be a double dip in 2010, or maybe a dollar crash any day now. Just saying!

Warren is a great stock picker, but his big money makers are junk food companies and the world's shittiest banks. Any average doofus investing in crypto or an index fund handily beat Warren Buffet's returns this year.

Bitcoin is Enron. Which went up close to TEN THOUSAND PERCENT!

Bitcoin is not a stock and has no means to cook it's books like Enron did.

[Punx0r]

If Bitcoin has no inherent value, pays no dividends and cannot be used as a practical currency, then does it have any value at all beyond speculative?

If so it seems hard to see it as anything but a bubble. At least the dotcoms had the *potential* to earn money in the future from trading or selling advertising.

Either way, the first wave of any new technology does tend to fail hard after being over-hyped and failing to meet expectations. Then after a few years and the technology matured, a slower, second wave comes and actually works.