New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
slacker
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 778
Joined: Aug 08, 2009 11:01 am
Location: land of 10,000 lakes,minnesota.usa

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by slacker » Jan 09, 2018 11:32 am

I believe its called a coaster brake, not coastal. JMO. Easier to understand using proper bike terms. Had interest in this motor but looks like to many maintenance issues for me. I will stick with geared hubs, thank you.

irrelevant
10 µW
10 µW
Posts: 5
Joined: Dec 21, 2017 12:16 pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by irrelevant » Jan 09, 2018 2:21 pm

Found a solution to batteryholder installation: GrinTech BottleBob
http://www.ebikes.ca/bottlebob.html

No need to drill holes on the frame

tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Jan 09, 2018 5:24 pm

slacker wrote:
Jan 09, 2018 11:32 am
I believe its called a coaster brake, not coastal. JMO. Easier to understand using proper bike terms. Had interest in this motor but looks like to many maintenance issues for me. I will stick with geared hubs, thank you.
I think it will prove to be less maintenance than Bafang, and with better support. I'm with you on the geared motors, went MAC and sold off my 3 BBSHD's. But when it comes to hills these mid drives are hard to beat.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

Rydon
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 31
Joined: Aug 11, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Jan 09, 2018 11:13 pm

irrelevant wrote:
Jan 09, 2018 2:21 pm
Found a solution to batteryholder installation: GrinTech BottleBob
http://www.ebikes.ca/bottlebob.html

No need to drill holes on the frame
I prefer a more refined fit and finish than hose clamps. Here is a very flexible and elegant solution from Wolf Tooth Components.

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/col ... ory-device

Atrihalov
100 µW
100 µW
Posts: 7
Joined: Nov 14, 2017 1:30 am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Atrihalov » Jan 10, 2018 7:09 am

A throttle can be connected to the TDSZ2.

Daytriker
1 W
1 W
Posts: 56
Joined: Sep 26, 2011 8:08 pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Daytriker » Jan 10, 2018 8:52 am

wgtnpete wrote:
Dec 01, 2017 10:02 pm
So I got PSWPower to send me a replacement metal gear on the chance that it was the gear that had stripped. However, I have opened up the unit following the guides that everyone has helpfully posted, but my motor does not slide out once the four screws at the bottom are out. It feels pretty stuck in there. I was originally trying to do this with the motor still on the bike but took it out in case it gave me better leverage, but still no movement.

Any tips from someone who has done this procedure?


I may be a bit late to help you with this but after you have removed the 4 (?) mounting screws for the motor turn the whole unit on it's side & with a flat punch or screw driver edge just tap against the top motor cover around the circumference until you get some wiggle room. Then it's just a case of lifting the whole assembly out. Just seems to be a really good tight fit on some units.

tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Jan 10, 2018 12:12 pm

Atrihalov wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 7:09 am
A throttle can be connected to the TDSZ2.
But not all version can run with a throttle. There is a specific controller and display needed.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Jan 10, 2018 12:16 pm

Rydon wrote:
Jan 09, 2018 11:13 pm

I prefer a more refined fit and finish than hose clamps. Here is a very flexible and elegant solution from Wolf Tooth Components.

The BB cold be used with zip ties too, but hanging a $500 battery with zip ties isn't all that exciting to me. Thanks for the post, I do like the idea of adding one of the Wolf rails on my down tube with rivnuts.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

itchyfoot42
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 32
Joined: Mar 31, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by itchyfoot42 » Jan 10, 2018 8:55 pm

Not all zip ties are created equal. My battery is hung from the top of the seat frame using very heavy nylon zip ties and no problems in 8 months of use. Stainless steel zip ties are also available. May install a couple of those as I have had zip ties fail after a couple of years exposure to UV.

User avatar
jbalat
100 W
100 W
Posts: 210
Joined: Nov 10, 2012 11:50 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Jan 10, 2018 9:26 pm

I cant see any cracks on the bearing spline.. am i looking in the right place ?
IMG_20180111_14920.jpg
IMG_20180111_14920.jpg (89.4 KiB) Viewed 878 times
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/

Atrihalov
100 µW
100 µW
Posts: 7
Joined: Nov 14, 2017 1:30 am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Atrihalov » Jan 11, 2018 2:09 am

tomjasz wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 12:12 pm
Atrihalov wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 7:09 am
A throttle can be connected to the TDSZ2.
But not all version can run with a throttle. There is a specific controller and display needed.
Not certainly in that way. I have a kit without the throttle support 6 pins. I added 2 wires from the controller to the display, + 5V and the input signal from the throttle and everything works.

User avatar
jbalat
100 W
100 W
Posts: 210
Joined: Nov 10, 2012 11:50 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Jan 11, 2018 5:23 am

Atrihalov wrote:
Jan 11, 2018 2:09 am
tomjasz wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 12:12 pm
Atrihalov wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 7:09 am
A throttle can be connected to the TDSZ2.
But not all version can run with a throttle. There is a specific controller and display needed.
Not certainly in that way. I have a kit without the throttle support 6 pins. I added 2 wires from the controller to the display, + 5V and the input signal from the throttle and everything works.
Please share i might want to do the same on my bike
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/

Speady
1 W
1 W
Posts: 62
Joined: Nov 17, 2015 10:45 am
Location: an island, surrounded by water, big water,

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Speady » Jan 11, 2018 5:31 am

jbalat wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 9:26 pm
I cant see any cracks on the bearing spline.. am i looking in the right place ?
Yes, you're looking at the right place, but you need to remove that brown plastic ring (dust seal).
Then you can see those splines, check carefully, all of them need to line up in the same direction.
If you feel a remarkable resistance while backpedaling, at least one of the splines flipped over. That's when you should start looking for a spare.

User avatar
jbalat
100 W
100 W
Posts: 210
Joined: Nov 10, 2012 11:50 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Jan 12, 2018 1:46 am

Thanks speedy just did a service on the other side of the motor and only thing i could find was the 22mm bearing in the housing had a lot of play. Anyone know how to get it out and what it is ?
IMG_20180112_31219.jpg
IMG_20180112_31219.jpg (55.55 KiB) Viewed 807 times
Checked the splines like you said and they all appear to be fine
IMG_20180112_1492.jpg
IMG_20180112_1492.jpg (55.52 KiB) Viewed 805 times
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/

Rydon
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 31
Joined: Aug 11, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Jan 12, 2018 3:01 am

tomjasz wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 12:16 pm
The BB cold be used with zip ties too, but hanging a $500 battery with zip ties isn't all that exciting to me. Thanks for the post, I do like the idea of adding one of the Wolf rails on my down tube with rivnuts.
itchyfoot42 wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 8:55 pm
Not all zip ties are created equal. My battery is hung from the top of the seat frame using very heavy nylon zip ties and no problems in 8 months of use. Stainless steel zip ties are also available. May install a couple of those as I have had zip ties fail after a couple of years exposure to UV.
I agree wit itchyfoot42 on the stainless steel zip ties. They are clean, add a little bling and are extremely strong. You don't need the $200 tool either. Just cut them off after tightening about 1/2-3/4 inch and then roll up the end with some 90 degree needle nose like a sardine can lid. They will hold over 150lbs. Here is where I get mine: http://amzn.to/2CTemKY

Still like the Wolf-tooth B-Rad the best: https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/col ... ory-device

tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Jan 12, 2018 3:39 am

A decent rivnut tool is under $30. I have black bikes and cover black hose clamps with black shrink wrap. I do use added zip ties, but not as primary. Three of my 6 rides are like are loaned out for friends on rides. I like friend proof, one dropped battery gets expensive. I aint handsome and worry little about looks. <wink>
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

thomfellow
1 µW
1 µW
Posts: 4
Joined: Jan 12, 2018 9:43 am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thomfellow » Jan 12, 2018 11:13 am

I purchased a Bullitt in December (2017) and ordered a TSDZ2 a few days later and after my first installation attempt I don't think it's possible to use these two together anymore. I'm not sure if I'm missing something or if the design of one or both have changed such that, even with significant grinding, they will not be compatible. I may be overly pessimistic.

I'm curious if anybody that's done this recognizes how tight this looks and thinks I'm just not visualizing it properly. :roll: To my eyes it doesn't look like I can remove enough material to make it clear. I may make another attempt this weekend. (see attachments)
IMG_6488s.jpg
IMG_6488s.jpg (240.56 KiB) Viewed 769 times
IMG_6486s.jpg
IMG_6490s.jpg
I see that @Dr.Electric says they had to remove nearly all of the mount, as well as is illustrated by @mscoot.

Wondering if the clearance I'm seeing looks familiar matte2k@? The photo you show seems to have more space than mine.
matte2k wrote:
Jul 19, 2017 12:45 pm
Image
Dr.Electric wrote:
May 25, 2016 2:29 pm
So i finally had some time to test it some more.

Se added picture for clearance. I had to cut away almost all of the motor mount on the right side.
But the motor fits snugly.

With a freshly charged 10 s 5p Samsung 35e pack I have 550-620 watt under load.
The motor delivers this continually going uphill. Used 2Ah on 10 minutes and the motor was probably about 35 Celsius after this workout.
It has a quite nice engine sound. Almost like a little motor cycle engine.
Works fine with the alfine 8.
I changed some settings in the controller. Now is powers the bike until 35 km/h. But the power change setting didn't change the motor wattage.

The bad stuff:
I can feel a little wobble in the main bearing from the crank.
This is a little surprising!
I hope that the main bearing will last!

Image
mscoot wrote:
Jul 05, 2017 3:18 pm
mscoot wrote:
matte2k wrote:Have some questions before ordering a kit for my Bullitt cargo.

How many milimeter more to the right was the chainline after installation than before the installation?

Is it possible to mount the lekkie bling ring direktly on the "spider"? to get a better chain line?

Hom long is the cables from the motor to the display and to the battery?

What connection is the cable from the motor to the battery. I hope bullett connector?

Are there any difference between the displays? What would you recommend and why?
I have this motor mounted on a Bullitt.
Just so that you are warned, it does not fit out of the box.

However, it is a really nice motor though, and compliments the Alfine 8 or 11 IGH in a nice way if you have that. It's also very discrete once fitted to the Bullitt. I just hauled my entire family with beach stuff and all (a total of perhaps 250kg) all the way from the beach and 3 km long ride going up hill all the time. This was on a regular 250w EU-street legal motor, btw. It was slow at about 15-20 km/h, but the motor did fine without overheating.

To make it fit, you need to go at it with a dremel and trim off som bits of the motors casings. That's a 30 minute job if you've got the right bits, or perhaps half of that if you're sloppy.
The rear mounting point needs to be completely removed and grinded away off. If you're interested, I can give you some more details on where to cut and how to fit it.

There's also the issue about noise. Because the rear securing plate thingie is removed the motor pushes towards that big main centre tube on the frame. The slight hum of the motor is amplified by the frame and the cargo box in front unless you get creative with adding rubber o-rings and the like where it touches the frame.
Ok, so you're interested. Here goes:

Look at the two pictures. You have to remove the metal marked in red. Take care to not take too much, but just enough to clear the frame around the bottom bracket. Take away some, then test fit and repeat until your happy. To slide the motor in and out of the bottom bracket you need to unscrew the left side cover. Once the motor is seated properly, you can put the cover back on. Don't forget to blow away any metal debris that might have found it's way into the motor when the cover was off.

What's marked in blue are the three points where the motor touches the frame. You might want to put some sort of rubber o-ring or other soft material there to dampen the noise. (I forgot to add the second o-ring in the picture showing the front of motor). Especially the front part of the motor can be difficult to isolate properly from the frame. Put you could try without as well. It seems to me the newer versions of these motors are a fair bit more quiet.

Image
Image

To your other questions: the cables are more than long enough - no worries there. I think the small display is the nicest, Less cables, less fuss, but you loose the ability to charge your phone very, very slowly if that's your thing. With an IGH the chainline offset is negligible. I think it's off by about 1 cm. That doesn't bother me. Mine came with bullet connectors.

Rydon
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 31
Joined: Aug 11, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Jan 12, 2018 3:20 pm

Atrihalov wrote:
Jan 11, 2018 2:09 am
... I have a kit without the throttle support 6 pins. I added 2 wires from the controller to the display, + 5V and the input signal from the throttle and everything works.
Atrihalov, It is good to know that is possible. Could you provide a picture of the controller and display with the wires you added for the throttle? I am sure a lot of us following this thread would like to copy what you did.

Rydon
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 31
Joined: Aug 11, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Jan 12, 2018 8:05 pm

tomjasz wrote:
Jan 12, 2018 3:39 am
A decent rivnut tool is under $30. I have black bikes and cover black hose clamps with black shrink wrap. I do use added zip ties, but not as primary. Three of my 6 rides are like are loaned out for friends on rides. I like friend proof, one dropped battery gets expensive. I aint handsome and worry little about looks. <wink>
I don't want to go too far off topic but FYI, here is my favorite rivnut tool (and under $30). Unlike the gun type this can get up in the corners of bike triangles. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/t ... cfer=15526 Also, I use zinc plated steel rivnuts and don't worry about drilling holes in aluminum frames.

As for the last line in tomjasz quote above, I am in the same boat but I use what levers I have to try to increase my curb appeal - like dentist, barber and e-bike. <wink> :)

User avatar
Chalo
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6648
Joined: Apr 29, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Chalo » Jan 13, 2018 4:18 am

That rivnut setter is equipped only for SAE sized fasteners, but fortunately that's OK!

#10-32 threads are so close to M5x0.8 that you can either put a 5mm fastener right in them or (more likely) open them up to metric size by running an M5 tap cleanly into the #10-32 hole.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

RTIII
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 461
Joined: Jun 02, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Oakland, CA, USA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jan 13, 2018 1:18 pm

Atrihalov wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 7:09 am
A throttle can be connected to the TDSZ2.
To clarify what Tom said: The TSDZ2 does NOT come standard with the wiring in the harness for the throttle and all indications are that if your TSDZ2 did not come with throttle from new, you cannot add one later unless you're as brave and adventuresome as Atrihalov is! Please, Atrihalov, tell us how you did it in pictures if you can!

RTIII
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 461
Joined: Jun 02, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Oakland, CA, USA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jan 13, 2018 1:34 pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 13, 2018 4:18 am
That rivnut setter is equipped only for SAE sized fasteners, but fortunately that's OK!

#10-32 threads are so close to M5x0.8 that you can either put a 5mm fastener right in them or (more likely) open them up to metric size by running an M5 tap cleanly into the #10-32 hole.
Good to know, Chalo. Also, that same company sells the metric version as well:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/t ... -03708.php

tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Jan 13, 2018 2:32 pm

RTIII wrote:
Jan 13, 2018 1:18 pm
Atrihalov wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 7:09 am
A throttle can be connected to the TDSZ2.
To clarify what Tom said: The TSDZ2 does NOT come standard with the wiring in the harness for the throttle and all indications are that if your TSDZ2 did not come with throttle from new, you cannot add one later unless you're as brave and adventuresome as Atrihalov is! Please, Atrihalov, tell us how you did it in pictures if you can!
RT, but we can add one with a new display and controller? Mine failed, but that was my understanding. Too cold to play bike mechanic so I'm waiting till spring. I am VERY interested in their in frame series...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

RTIII
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 461
Joined: Jun 02, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Oakland, CA, USA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jan 14, 2018 12:35 am

tomjasz wrote:
Jan 13, 2018 2:32 pm
RT, but we can add one [a throttle] with a new display and controller? Mine failed, but that was my understanding. Too cold to play bike mechanic so I'm waiting till spring. I am VERY interested in their in frame series...
No, depending on what you mean by "controller", I am pretty sure you cannot; the wires just are not there to do it with, and adding said wires is exactly what Atrihalov appears to have done - along with also some magical connection inside the controller that makes it work.

So, IF you mean by "controller" the electrical system inside the same housing as the motor itself, well, it sounds like Atrihalov has managed to use the original, non-throttle-equipped controller and added the wiring and got it to work. However, as I have one of each unit, I can tell you the "wiring loom" up to the thing I think of as a controller (not "the" controller) - you might call display - is different. I THINK you have to have a VLCD-5 display to get the connection point, and if so, as that display has a removable base, MAYBE you can just replace the base and the loom running to the motor, and then make the appropriate hookup at the motor. But I don't have that experience (yet?), and I was hoping Atrihalov could tell us!

tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Clarifying

Post by tomjasz » Jan 14, 2018 2:14 pm

When I received my sample kit it was torque sensing only, no brake/motor cut off, and no throttle. I said I needed both for sales in the market (USA). I was sent a new controller, the electronic controller in the motor housing, and a new display. I was informed they were needed to have those functions. In retrospect I think it would have been a better kit without either. Unfortunately sometimes I MUST have a throttle. I will test more once it warns up. -7F yesterday. Test rides HURT!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

Post Reply