new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

No, you can run a square taper bottom bracket. Just be sure to choose the right option for your bottom bracket shell width.

Bullfrog said:
Do you have to run an ISIS bottom bracket to install the Cyclone?

My current frame has a square taper and the actual frame is 112 mm wide...
 
There is an updated cyclone mount designed and sold by Luna cycle. They don’t show it mounted on a bike or motor so it’s hard to tell how it works. Guess it doesn’t matter. They should have taken the design a little further and make it pivot or slide to tighten the chain so the tensioner would not be needed. Would rather have that function over the logos machined into every part. The LA ebike guy stopped offering his mount so Luna cycle is about the only option right now.
 
Has anybody installed a Cyclone kit on a Mongoose Fat Tire bike?

Thinking about trying it and wondered if there were any unique challenges?

Thanks for any scoop.
 
I just realized that you said your bottom bracket shell is 112mm wide, so you'll have to choose the appropriate bottom bracket option. I wonder if the 83-110 will work.

https://lunacycle.com/cyclone-mid-drive-3000w-planetary-kit/

You might want to ask this guy too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_6YBciXpY8

Bullfrog said:
Has anybody installed a Cyclone kit on a Mongoose Fat Tire bike?

Thinking about trying it and wondered if there were any unique challenges?

Thanks for any scoop.
 
Post by Bullfrog » Jan 07, 2018 8:45 pm
Just found this topic...to be honest, I am too lazy to go back and read all 113 pages, can somebody summarize regarding two questions?

1. How does the Cyclone compare to the LIghtning Rod Small Block (LRSB) as far as performance and reliability?
I can see the price differences and obviously the LRSB is more money. I am currently running a BBSHD and just want more power...tried to buy a Ludicrous controller from Luna but they won't sell me one because I haven't spent enough money with them. I understand it is a business decision and nothing personal. So now I need to make an engineering decision and decide which option to go with...Cyclone, LRSB, or stick with my BBSHD and run an external controller.

by dirkdiggler » Jan 08, 2018 12:07 pm
Same here with the I liked it so much I bought two. Plus the price is half the BBSHD. You will end up spending more time in the garage. Mostly chain issues. Chains wear out quicker and get torn apart with 6kw. If you keep it slow things will last longer. You'll also need to stiffen the mounting brackets. That's the biggest issue with the Cyclone. Luna has an upgraded version of the bracket which might work better than the old one. I haven't read anyone say whether it was better or not. If you are up for a little garage time, the Cyclone is a sweet way to up your power level. Sick bike parts also has them if you are in the US. Maybe Luna will sell you the controller for your BBSHD with your order.



Bull frog I first heard about the c3000w on this build thread here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=83578&hilit=elementary

This dude built 15 ebikes and compared all the other high power mid drives, I,e tangent BBSHD etc and his favourite was by far the c3000w for its high torque and low noise.

I have got the AFT hopped up version of this C3000w and now have clocked up 7000kms and loving every minute. This this pops mono’s in the first 4 gears and is nearly silent too boot….Dirkdiggler The bracket set it a lot stronger box section and better design with integrated controller mount than any of the other designs from Luna etc I have seen.
 
Are you referring to the bent bracket? That's actually from Cyclone. Luna Cycle has been working on a CNC/laser cut bracket for some time now. Not sure when they will actually start selling it. They mentioned it in the Fast Electric Bike group on Facebook in July 2017.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G99tNdeZa0g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8d7j-sfTP4

Skaiwerd said:
There is an updated cyclone mount designed and sold by Luna cycle...
 
robocam said:
Are you referring to the bent bracket? That's actually from Cyclone. Luna Cycle has been working on a CNC/laser cut bracket for some time now. Not sure when they will actually start selling it. They mentioned it in the Fast Electric Bike group on Facebook in July 2017.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G99tNdeZa0g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8d7j-sfTP4

Skaiwerd said:
There is an updated cyclone mount designed and sold by Luna cycle...


Nope! It’s a $120 extras that does not come with the cyclone. It’s on the Luna cycle home page.
 
Oh, they finally made it. It mounts to the Cyclone 3000 the same way the old bracket did. The machined piece goes in the place of where the small aluminum blocks used to go. They said they're going to make them with side plates of varying lengths so that people can mount it in the triangle. That would have been perfect for my project here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKW7v9uMKJc

But $140, ouch! And it doesn't support the end of the motor to keep it from rotating. Someone said that's not necessary but I don't know man. But I'm glad they finally pushed it out despite how busy they have been.

https://lunacycle.com/luna-cyclone-3d-cyclone-mounting-system/

Looks like Sick Bike Parts isn't selling the old bracket anymore either.

Skaiwerd said:
Nope! It’s a $120 extras that does not come with the cyclone. It’s on the Luna cycle home page.
 
Robocam....I like that build with the Cyclone inside the triangle, well done. I would like to do something similar with a hardtail but I can't figure out what to do with my battery. I don't want to wear it...I would like to stick with a 14s but could drop to a lower number of parallel strings, currently running a 6p. EM3ev will build custom battery shapes and configurations...for a price and within some conservative volume constraints. Maybe I need to figure out a shape that would fit in the triangle along with the motor.

Thanks for the video...gives me some good ideas.

What is the thickness of the aluminum plate you used and came from Sick Bike Parts?
 
Bullfrog said:
Robocam....I like that build with the Cyclone inside the triangle, well done. I would like to do something similar with a hardtail but I can't figure out what to do with my battery. I don't want to wear it...I would like to stick with a 14s but could drop to a lower number of parallel strings, currently running a 6p. EM3ev will build custom battery shapes and configurations...for a price and within some conservative volume constraints. Maybe I need to figure out a shape that would fit in the triangle along with the motor.

Thanks for the video...gives me some good ideas.

What is the thickness of the aluminum plate you used and came from Sick Bike Parts?

Nice to have options with a large frame. 6 6s in there. I’m thinking smaller enduro next with cyclone, hummm
 

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Robo has suggested having a one speed edirtbike. With rear suspension, you will most likely need a chain tensioner for a derailleur elimination method. An unacceptable way of achieving a chain tensioner would be to use a rear derailleur as this would hang out in harm's way and be no better than having a working derailleur. There is a variety of chain tensions already made in the bike component market but I could not find one that would work with a 48T rear cog. The Surly will take up to a 24T cog. These items seem to be made for taking up chain slack when running an internal gear hub.

I recently order and received the SRAM EX-1 derailleur, shifter and cassette at prices beating Amazon and get this: actually "in stock" from WWC. The cassette is far more durable than the SunRace steel that works okay for hill work as it is milled from one piece of steel. But at $123 for a derailleur I decided to go with one-speed gearing when riding the rough -- no trail -- but sage and mountain mahogany brush on the side slopes of hill & gully riding.

Here are some items to consider when making a chain tension for a large cog 40T - 50T.

1. The chain tensioner will have much better protection if it resides inside the stays or width thereof.

2. A set up that angles backward would likely not get bent out of alignment as easily as one that hinged and projected forward.

3. The closeness of roller to rear cog is better as this will allow for little misalignment due to chain rattling.

4. A return spring strong enough to keep the slack out of the chain for the rate you hit the bumps and create slack or tension.

5. Optional: create a set up that can swing out of the way when you decide to change the chain length and add a derailleur.

6. Possible unforeseen Measurement? How much chain take-up or loosing occurs during the full range of suspension movement? To determine the needed chain length you can remove a rear shock pin and swing the rear cage from uncompressed position into full compression for a trial chain length. You will not want the chain to get overly tight during this range of motion.

Low tech Solution: I was able to figure out a chain tension assembly that met the above criteria. I did employ a DMR chain tensioner (with the red pulley) fastened to a coaster brake arm that is gear clamped to lower stay and a hardware store spring for keeping the chain tight.



Mod IMG_6892.jpg



M2 IMG_6892.jpg



Mod IMG_6893.jpg



So far the chain tension has worked without failing on some very rough riding through some brush. Top speed with this 48T gear is 21mph. The 48T, 44T, 36T sub-assembly steel cassette is homemade from steel Cyclone chainrings and the cassette offers 9 speeds.
 
Nice work on the custom rear tensioner what is the biggest gear tooth count on that ? is that 48t? how did you addapt that to a normal casette ?

How does the biek ride now single speed? i am guessing peddling is not an option any more ?

Also my other concern with this idea is that you will overload the motor ? or more precisely limit the c3000w to well 3kw of power only?

i don't think this will work at 6kw peaks that some people are running these through the derailuer gears. Multiple gears at the back allows you to overload the motor as you are running it more often in its correct RPM point for efficiency vs single speed and also it allows for cooling during gear changes etc.

what power are you running through this setup?
 
alex07

Nice work on the custom rear tensioner what is the biggest gear tooth count on that ? is that 48t? how did you addapt that to a normal casette ?

Alex,

basically, the 48T chainring is pinched & pinned [by 4 bolts] between two 26T cassette cogs, which happen to have the right diameter at teeth troughs to very closely fit the 104 mm bolt pattern. I describe how to do this Low Tech procedure in this thread see my post;

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=2150#p1305970

page ahead of the above post and I tell what I did to make a 9-speed cassette.

Alex07,

How does the biek ride now single speed? i am guessing peddling is not an option any more ?

Since I haul the bike to where I presently ride I do not need speeds at 40mph. The bike is essentially an e dirtbike and I use the pedals for pedaling only when the motor system is down. The bike with me on it can easily do a smooth 51% grade.

mod2 DSC06071.jpg

Alex07,

Also my other concern with this idea is that you will overload the motor ? or more precisely limit the c3000w to well 3kw of power only?

The motor is spinning quite fast. These motors are more efficient at high speeds (rpm).

3kw of power only? I need more hill riding skills not more amps. I just cannot blame a failure to reach some summit on not having enough amps. I go up hillsides & hills where pedaling mt bikes would not have a chance. The lines I pick often have some "noise" -- think loose cobbles.
 
At 72v what is the full throttle no load current you get on the c3000w with the motor alone and also with the gearbox added ?

also lastly maybe with the back chain connected to the bike ?

just want to see how it compares to the 6kw tangent astro as that does 350w full throttle no load with no bike chain connected just motor and gearbox. is that normal ?
 
Need input from others as well.

Sort of an Apples to Oranges comparison but with my BBSHD running a 58.8v battery, motor connected to the chain and chain to the rear wheel and ready to ride....I get about 90 watts when I hold the rear tire off the ground and hold the throttle wide open. 350 watts sounds a little high to me but my setup may not be relevant.

Anybody have a setup closer to Alex07 that would be a better comparison?
 
On sale now at HobbyKing:

but who knows what the real price is?


Multistar High Capacity 20000mAh 6S 10C Multi-Rotor Lipo Pack had been $151.79 now $127. But they now show that the price had been $132.79.

This brick size when compared to other useful ebike sizes they sell had been the cheapest when measured by $/kwhr. These 6S 20000mAh batteries are seldom on sale so I picked up a few to power the 4Kw coax motor elite bike. It looks like there is plenty of room in the triangle.
 
DingusMcGee said:
On sale now at HobbyKing:

but who knows what the real price is?


Multistar High Capacity 20000mAh 6S 10C Multi-Rotor Lipo Pack had been $151.79 now $127. But they now show that the price had been $132.79.

This brick size when compared to other useful ebike sizes they sell had been the cheapest when measured by $/kwhr. These 6S 20000mAh batteries are seldom on sale so I picked up a few to power the 4Kw coax motor elite bike. It looks like there is plenty of room in the triangle.

DingusMcgee

So the 20k is about the price of the 16k. 6s batt. The 16k didn’t go on sale mid December like last year saving around $50 each. On sale now but only a $12 savings. I think due to demand and not much choice the brick batteries are going on sale less or maybe never again.
 
DingusMcgee

So the 20k is about the price of the 16k. 6s batt. The 16k didn’t go on sale mid December like last year saving around $50 each. On sale now but only a $12 savings. I think due to demand and not much choice the brick batteries are going on sale less or maybe never again.

Hi Skaiwerd,

Yes, I look at HobbyKing Multistar prices about every day and wait for a good price. Because the 16k didn't go on sale until now? I decided to go for the 20kAh.

Now that they have reduced the 16k from $124.65 to $112.23 I suppose they are about equal in the cost measure of $/kwH? The 20K looks for my situation as maybe the ideal pack or double 'em up 40k for the long rides. I have 32aH on the Big Hit. I did a 73 mile ride and reached cutoff voltage. The rides I am currently doing would take less than a 12k pack and a lighter bike would be convenient -- other than easier wheelies.
 
DingusMcGee said:
DingusMcgee

So the 20k is about the price of the 16k. 6s batt. The 16k didn’t go on sale mid December like last year saving around $50 each. On sale now but only a $12 savings. I think due to demand and not much choice the brick batteries are going on sale less or maybe never again.

Hi Skaiwerd,

Yes, I look at HobbyKing Multistar prices about every day and wait for a good price. Because the 16k didn't go on sale until now? I decided to go for the 20kAh.

Now that they have reduced the 16k from $124.65 to $112.23 I suppose they are about equal in the cost measure of $/kwH? The 20K looks for my situation as maybe the ideal pack or double 'em up 40k for the long rides. I have 32aH on the Big Hit. I did a 73 mile ride and reached cutoff voltage. The rides I am currently doing would take less than a 12k pack and a lighter bike would be convenient -- other than easier wheelies.


And with free shipping in the USA that’s a $10 per battery savings. I can also now use PayPal credit and not just my credit card to buy them. Six months no interest.
 
Hello all, first post here on Endless Sphere.

Two questions regarding the Cyclone Fat-Kit from Luna I've installed on my Fat-Bike...

1) Does anybody have a recommended way to install some spacers over the drive-side motor bolts to add a chain guard? I plan to cut my own guard out of aluminum.

2) Is there a pad somewhere on Luna's 60A Bluetooth controller to read the current? I'm doing my own homebrew Arduino Cycle-Analyst type thing and don't want to add a separate current sensor.

Thanks!
 
ryanf55,

1) Does anybody have a recommended way to install some spacers over the drive-side motor bolts to add a chain guard? I plan to cut my own guard out of aluminum.

There are standard chainring bolts of many different lengths -- sex bolts as they screw into each other. A pack of 2mm chainring spacers and a pack of 1mm chainring spacers will likely give you enough chain clearance.

The chainring bolts and chainring spacers come in many sizes. You can get a pack of them from Wheels Manufacturing, World Wide Cyclery etc.

Cyclone Taiwan has installed a black aluminum bash guard on the 4kw Elite coax motor rather than the plastic one that comes with the c3000 kit. Maybe they will become available?

IMG_6926.gif
 
ryanf55 said:
Hello all, first post here on Endless Sphere.

Two questions regarding the Cyclone Fat-Kit from Luna I've installed on my Fat-Bike...

1) Does anybody have a recommended way to install some spacers over the drive-side motor bolts to add a chain guard? I plan to cut my own guard out of aluminum.

2) Is there a pad somewhere on Luna's 60A Bluetooth controller to read the current? I'm doing my own homebrew Arduino Cycle-Analyst type thing and don't want to add a separate current sensor.

Thanks!

The Luna controller probably isn't that great but if it has a CA lead there will be a shunt wire included on it. If there's no CA lead that's really inexcusable.
 
Thanks for the offer, but I was looking for where to get spacer bolts to offset a guard over the motor like in this one I found:
chain-coverl.jpg


To flat tire:
I'll open the case up and look for a shunt resistor. I know there has to be once since the controller is measuring current somewhere. It displays instantaneous current on the app.

DingusMcGee said:
ryanf55,

1) Does anybody have a recommended way to install some spacers over the drive-side motor bolts to add a chain guard? I plan to cut my own guard out of aluminum.

There are standard chainring bolts of many different lengths -- sex bolts as they screw into each other. A pack of 2mm chainring spacers and a pack of 1mm chainring spacers will likely give you enough chain clearance.

The chainring bolts and chainring spacers come in many sizes. You can get a pack of them from Wheels Manufacturing, World Wide Cyclery etc.

Cyclone Taiwan has installed a black aluminum bash guard on the 4kw Elite coax motor rather than the plastic one that comes with the c3000 kit. Maybe they will become available?

IMG_6926.gif
 
ryanf55,

the spacers used on the red & silver bike you show I got in the Hilman boxed fastener group at the local Ace Hardware.

You can get something quite similar from McMaster Carr.

see

https://www.mcmaster.com/#spacers/=1bceu8a
 
Finally installed the SBP "HD mounts" which I guess are the new style of mount from cyclone. The fitment wasn't superb so we'll see what happens when I ride later. At least the static flex appears totally reduced.
 
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