E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Hey CD, hats off to you, you are building on hell of a battery there. I hope its good and no duds as replacing a cell will be a royal PITA.
 
Thanks for the kind words guy's.
Today, I joined the 2 pack halves together. It was a little challenging keeping the end-to-end section balancing upright while I spot welded it, but it was the best way to get the job done right.

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I put some old tube in as a separation layer. This may only be temporary for now as I still need to do the balance wiring, but it seems like it will be a good option as the permanent separation also since I need something thin, but also not permanently compressible like how packing foam can squash down if repeatedly compressed. Coroflute (election signs) is another option, but it's lot thicker so not ideal. I might also put some thermal padding in there as it conforms nicely around the wires I will have to run for balancing.

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Aside from this I also did some other work on my Fighter today...however no photo's sorry.
I finally ditched the rear Gator brake that had been hanging around like a bad smell since 2011 as I finally used up my last set of pads for it. Now I have a nice Magura MT2 in the rear to complement the MT4 on the front. :mrgreen:
I also ditched the crummy cheap Sunrace derailleur I had been using for a long time, and switched a semi-decent Shimano Acera unit. It's by no means high end, but should certainly help when it comes to shifing...recently I had been having to shift up 2 then down 1 just to get it to shift up one gear.

Now I can't procrastinate doing the balance wiring any more....going to have to suck it up and do it. :|

Cheers
 
Almost done on this painful balance wiring...and went a bit nuts on the Kapton tape. :lol:
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I also got the main discharge done...that was a lot of solder...didn't get any decent photo's, but I laid the 8awg wire down across a latticed extension of nickel, then weaved it back through the nickel lattice before looping it out...it's way overkill, but better that than letting it be the weak link in this thing.

Strangely, one group of cells was about 8mv higher than the rest...hope that's not a sign of a bad cell, but I'll keep an eye on it and hope for the best :|

Next is the last 2S balance wiring/plug, then all the strategic padding and mega shrink wrap. I still need to do a bit more wiring to cover off auxiliary power, and trim the main discharge to the right length, then I'm also going to be adding a 125A circuit breaker into the mix for some level of safety. :D Not exactly sure where I will mount it, but the spot right underneath the rear shock looks good.

Cheers
 
I've still got a bit to go on the battery, but I thought I should do a test fit now that I've finished all the balance wiring and main discharge wires.
And I'm pleased to say, it's a perfect fit.
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There's just enough room to add a decent enough amount of padding before I heat-shrink, and I will also be able to fit my circuit breaker up in the neck area.

One mistake I did make (although it's not a huge deal) is I setup all the wiring to come out the top of the pack. This makes sense from a physical protection perspective, but doesn't make sense from an electrical perspective since it requires a long run of wire back around the pack down to the controller.
I'm thinking of using 6AWG wire for this so it doesn't cause any increased resistance as it's too late to change the pack design now.
At least doing a run of wiring back around the pack makes it heaps easier to use my circuit breaker.

I did have one setback though...I was trying to sort out my new Shimano Acera derailleur and somehow managed to snap off the little spring loaded stopper notch thingy. :roll: These newer derailleur designs have so many springs and levers I'm never quite sure if I'm doing it right. :lol:

Cheers
 
Cowardlyduck said:
And I'm pleased to say, it's a perfect fit.
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Eye candy
That fits amazing in there. Really great work you did there CD I'm envious :)

What motor/watts are you planning on running with that big thing? Sorry if that question has been asked a hundred times!
 
JtHaas said:
Cowardlyduck said:
And I'm pleased to say, it's a perfect fit.
DSC_4285.jpg
Eye candy
That fits amazing in there. Really great work you did there CD I'm envious :)

What motor/watts are you planning on running with that big thing? Sorry if that question has been asked a hundred times!


I am betting with this big of a battery, volt sage will be very minimal, thus, more peak watts potential! :arrow:
 
Yeah, this thing is a monster alright, and while it has the potential for up to 140A @ ~53V (7.4KW), I will probably only push it as far as 100A peak, maybe up to 125A or 6.5KW. I'm building it more for long range on fire trails where power draw is 3-4KW most of the time and I'm using it with a tiny 6 FET Mini-E controller which doesn't like huge power for long periods.

JtHaas said:
What motor/watts are you planning on running with that big thing? Sorry if that question has been asked a hundred times!
I swap between a '1500W' Leaf motor and a HS4080, both of which have internally mounted fans, vent holes, and heat sinks all around the outside of the magnet ring. Check this thread for all the details:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=56965&start=350#p1123565

So I made some good progress on finalising the battery today.
I did all the padding using a combination of thermal padding, old inner tube and varying thicknesses of foam I had from packaging.
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I used some large PVC heat-shrink over the whole lot, and some more heat-shrink, hot glue and zip ties to secure the wire exit.
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My goal with this battery was to keep the weight around or below 10KG...well I think this counts :D
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I was curious to see how much of that weight was from the nickel strip, since I used quite a lot doing 3 layers all throughout the whole pack.
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This coil was 1KG when I started the build with about 10% being wastage, off-cuts and a few other things, that puts approx. 200g of nickel in the pack.

I'm still not done yet...got a bunch of XT150 connectors to solder (how the hell am I going to do that with 6AWG wire :lol: ), and need to sort out the aux wiring also, but the hardest part is definitely done. :D

Cheers
 
Wow, epic battery build CD. Certainly going all out fancy configuration for ultimate cell capacity!

Its good timing too, as I am about to build a new battery for a Bomber for a guy in sydney.
(I have 4 packs under my belt now!)

He has an original bomber battery, I was wondering if you guys had any info / advice before i get started. Below are some details and assumptions, and would love any feedback.


I plan to go with a 20s10p pack 2 layers of Samsung 30q cells.
This should fit ok from what i have gathered. (each p group will have 2 rows of 5 cells wide to fit) similar to my alpha battery.
I will use a new BMS for 72v (20s)
Will the existing charger be ok? Or will he need a new one because of slight difference in cell chemistry? (original bomber pack uses lifepo4 i believe)

He plans on using the existing bomber controller, I am assuming this new battery can just plug straight in, and the controller will be fine? or will there need to be controller software config changes / updates or not compatible?

He hasn't shown me the plug ends yet - so will have to come up with something so it can plug straight in. I wont have access to the bike.

I suppose worst case scenario he can change out a connector on the bomber or get an auto-electrician to do it if hes not up to the task.

I'll go for the hot-glue & tape approach again over the cell holders.

Anything I am missing?

Cheers, Lash.
 
Thanks Lee!

The pack config and plugs might depend on the build date of the original Bomber. I'm pretty sure the Bombers built around the same time as my Fighter (2011-2013) all used Andersons SB50 for the main discharge and Andersons PP30/45 for the charge connector.
If it's from that era, you shouldn't have any problems just plugging and playing with the original controller and charger.

Apart from that, I would suggest going with more than 10P if possible...although I'm sure your aware of the real world impact of high C rate discharge on 18650's.

As for my pack, today I finished off the final touches and mounted it in my Fighter. :mrgreen:
First was a partial bulk charge while monitoring the cells for any drift.
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Thankfully I saw no drift more than 20mv.

The wiring harness was a PITA to make, but necessary to let me use my fans and auxiliary temp display via my dash mounted buttons.
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I ditched the idea of using 6AWG as it was next to impossible to fit it in an XT150. 8AWG is still more than enough for the 6.5KW max I will run.

After all the padding I added, and the heatshrink around the wire exit, it was a bit of a tight squeeze to get the pack in.
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After a bit of massaging and excess heat-shrink trimming, it fits like a glove. Also, what you can't see in this photo is the 2 x 24" Gaadi two end tubes stashed just above the pack where the seat mounts.
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With the circuit breaker mounted up in the neck, it's a tight squeeze for all my bits and pieces up there.
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I did some test rides around the back yard and managed to pull about 5.5KW with a voltage drop of only 5V which is pretty good IMO.

I do still have one last thing I want to do for this pack though. Because I don't run a BMS, I periodically balance charge after bulk charging. It's always a PITA to open up the side cover to gain access to the balance leads, so I put together an old Parallel cable setup which I will permanently mount up in the neck area. How I will fit it, I have no idea, but I'll make it work. :lol:
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Cheers
 
Thanks for that info CD. As he is using existing controller with lowish amps (75a from memory) i think 10p of samsung 30qs should be no problem at all. And ample range, ill do a final design check incase i can make it 12p, but its all a trade off anyway for weight/cost etc.

I need to be able to make it simply and quickly and repeatable would be ideal.

Anyway, i'd be interested to know more about your temp gauge and sensor. Id like to install one on the FUTRs im building, especially seeing as i am running the controllers inside the frame with lower airflow.

- And i thought my bike was chockers with wires, yours is something else! That will make for a true long range beast... Maybe you could ride down to batemans bay through the forest from Canberra? I miss it up there!
 
Yeah, if you won't be exceeding 75A, then 10P should be fine in that case.

The temp sensor is one of these:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Dig...ar-Meter-Gauge-With-Probe-DC-12V/120987350213
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I extended the wires and tucked the sensor between the windings and the stator supports in my motor. It's not super accurate, and does have a slight delay, but it's good enough for me to rely on compared to the tiny Adaptto temp display...which I also still have and use primarily for automatic power reduction/cutt-off when temps get really high.
The only catch with this sensor is that once the temp goes over 110C, the display just changes to HHH...but I actually like this as that is a good point to really take notice of the motor temp anyway and start backing off IMO...although my Adaptto doesn't start limiting power till about 130C.

Because I removed the CA display I had the perfect space to mount the temp LCD. I also rounded out the existing triangle shaped holes to mount 2 12mm latching push button switches.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-2pc...-Switch-For-Car-Vehicle-12mm-12V/191941222438
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One button turns on my DC-DC which sends 12V to the display, the other turns on my cooling fans.

I had issues mounting the LCD display due to the slots proximity to the button holes. In the end I had to remove the display from it's case, cut out some notches for the buttons and smother it in hot glue with some magnets embedded inside it to hold it to the inside of the frame. This has worked well now for quite some time.

Yeah it's crammed but the neck of my Fighter is a lot better than it was though...I used to cram extra LiPo packs up there a while back...that was nasty. :roll:
A ride down to Batemans Bay might be possible, but it would only be one way with a charge up down there before heading home. I might try it one day...we'll see.
Speaking of charging...it took the better part of 7 hours to get the dam thing up to 95% charge yesterday. About the only drawback of a massive pack...it takes for ever to charge with a standard charger. I'm still using the original 250W stock charger my Fighter came with from 7 years ago. :roll:
I might play with the amps pot on it (again) and crank it back up to 400W. I've done this before and while it does get a bit hot, it still works fine.

Cheers
 
Well I couldn't resist. Even though I still don't have a chain/rear derailleur mounted, I took the new battery out for a spin tonight as the sun was setting.
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And it was a pretty spectacular sunset!
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I hung around for a bit, and I'm glad I did as there was an even more spectacular lightning show as well.
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That's lightning, not the sun!

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By then it was dark and I was up the top of a small mountain with only a dinky little light to get me down.
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I definitely need to sort out a better lighting situation on this thing.

Oh and one drawback of the red LCD temp display I use...it's pretty bright at night.
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But it can be easily turned off if it's a problem.

With no pedalling, I was hitting the new battery pack hard, drawing 6.5KW. My Boost mode amps limit is currently 115A which means it was giving me 115A at 56.5V. That's insane! The full charge voltage of this pack is 58.8, but I had not even fully charged it before this ride, so it was sagging less than 2V at 115A!
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My Adaptto could be overshooting the amps limit for a moment also, which is entirely possible. I know the CA does this also, so my assumptions above could be wrong, but even if they are...my average battery voltage being 52.1 means each cell was at 3.72V average for a 49.1Wh/km ride which is pretty hard going so that is certainly promising.
Oh and in case your wondering...I did hit 85Kph, but that was with a quick test of OVS 3 set on my Adaptto. The normal max speed with this battery and my 5T Leaf motor is about 65Kph which I'm more than happy with most of the time.

Cheers
 
Nice pics CD and very impressive performance. With the volt sag being so minimal, I bet it feels way faster than before.
 
Thanks Rick.

Yeah, off the line it pulls much harder. To the point that if I'm not leaning forward it will loop out on me.

Because of the lower voltage it does stop pulling so hard a bit sooner than when I was running 18S LiPo, but I do feel a lot safer for it. I don't have enough fear sometimes and can easily get myself into trouble, so a lower top end keeps me a lot more sensible.

Cheers
 
Cowardlyduck said:
With no pedalling, I was hitting the new battery pack hard, drawing 6.5KW. My Boost mode amps limit is currently 115A which means it was giving me 115A at 56.5V. That's insane! The full charge voltage of this pack is 58.8, but I had not even fully charged it before this ride, so it was sagging less than 2V at 115A!
DSC_4345.jpg

My Adaptto could be overshooting the amps limit for a moment also, which is entirely possible. I know the CA does this also, so my assumptions above could be wrong, but even if they are...my average battery voltage being 52.1 means each cell was at 3.72V average for a 49.1Wh/km ride which is pretty hard going so that is certainly promising.
Oh and in case your wondering...I did hit 85Kph, but that was with a quick test of OVS 3 set on my Adaptto. The normal max speed with this battery and my 5T Leaf motor is about 65Kph which I'm more than happy with most of the time.

Cheers

Did you reset battery cycles to zero? I was thinking of doing it with a new battery and I don't know if is possible without setting also tot km to zero?
 
bigbore said:
Did you reset battery cycles to zero? I was thinking of doing it with a new battery and I don't know if is possible without setting also tot km to zero?
I didn't do that yet actually...still need to.

JumperJackFlash said:
CD,

Post a video for us please.
I didn't make a video of the battery build (there are plenty out there just like this), but I will try and do another ride video in the next few months.

Cheers
 
Well, so much for a ride video in the next few months....I took the bike out for a 60km blast today. :mrgreen:
I managed to use about 75% of the battery as I was going pretty hard. What's great about this pack is that I can go basically as hard as I like and I know I will always be able to get at least about 75km. I checked the pack a bunch of times to see if it was getting hot. It only got barely warm towards the end of my ride after I had been hitting it with repeated 100A bursts for about 10km. So basically the only way I could hurt this pack would be with deliberate abuse. :D

I will try and make the video this coming week hopefully, but in the mean time, enjoy these shot's:
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While I was up there I had this hilarious experience. I had just previously scared away a flock of sheep and had stopped and was videoing a huge eagle (no idea what type) and did a bit of a panoramic shot, then right on queue a sheep came out of nowhere as if to say 'Screw you'!
[youtube]6B7RopZFGt8[/youtube]
You couldn't make that happen even if you tried. :lol:

Cheers
 
NIce pics CD and glad the battery is performing as intended. You smell that stink CD? That stink is you because you are the $h!t. :lol: in all seriousness, awesome job on the battery and beautiful pics. Can't wait to see your video.
 
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