Project Dauntless - My Tanget build

12-C said:

The next thing I imagine upgrading to is a sprag clutch freehub they look really impressive. Onyx

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/onyx-racing-hubs-sprag-clutch-vs-other-types-engagement-970959.html

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instant engagement of the Sprague clutch would be very nice, considering the extra free-wheels in the cranks... Not sure about if they're up for the torque loads though... I'd want to talk to Onyx first. Let us know what you learn, I've thought about using them too.

Previous needle roller clutch freehubs (Shimano Silent Clutch hubs and Winners hubs) were regarded as less robust and reliable (with pedal power only) than ratchet freehubs.

When I spoke to the Onyx reps at Sea Otter last year, they were very confident the hubs would stand up to the torque we want. They were almost chuckling about it, giving me the impression their custom design sprag clutch is more than up to the task. I'd buy one if I had the cash.

A 3.4 KW Sender
[youtube]j89T0VSn8Tw[/youtube]

This one has been made for a disabled driver. Answers a lot of chainline/motor integration questions. He's using this kit
https://www.ego-kits.com/produkte/ego-kits/.

Honestly that settles it for me, it's possible with the frame and the results look really promising.

Looks like a solid kit! (but the website states 2400W peak 1200W continuous, and I would tend to believe it since the video of the guy trying to catch up to the DH racer took way too long in the one clip https://youtu.be/j89T0VSn8Tw?t=236.... On a tangent kit he would have been trying not to loop the bike... and I've done that too, at speed...)

IF you can demo ride some bikes that would help you tremendously.

personally if my kit delivered "ONLY" 3.5kW I'd be really disappointed, I'm glad I have 6k on tap....

I really don't want to come on as pushy or anything like that. But if you have 6k you don't need to use it all the time, but if you only have 3.5k, you can never have more...

Again, there are TONS of riders on here that have far less than 6k or 3.5k bikes, and they love what they have and have the time of their lives! But I know me, and me always wants more. My first lust was after something like what toolman2 has. Search it, its nuts, really a MC level torque and speed but takes a ton of knowledge and skill to implement which made it out of reach for me. Thankfully there was a guy like Dave that offered what he does and allowed me to just bolt it on and go. I'm actually more than satisfied with the power given that I've discovered how much I love single track on a bike like this!

To each their own!

Haha man i totally get that! As for the 6kW tangent, thats set! I have had my fun at 250w, now i want 6kw and never worry about power again.

12-C said:

IF you can demo ride some bikes that would help you tremendously.

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I could probably do that next weekend. It depends mostly on my health but i think i'll be fine. What should i look for specifically?

Butt dyno....

I suppose you can get an idea of sounds, battery and motor performance, weight, balance.

Personally it would have only come down to power for me.

FastJohnny said:

Some good choices there. I'm exhausted at the moment. Here's the bike Dave and I were tossing around.
The GG DH

DH seats always tilt back like that. You can adjust them to level for ebikes though.

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Just emailed gorilla gravity about this bike and asked if they could possibly build a one off slightly customised frame. Only mods being a straight top tube and for the rear shock to be turned upside down in order for decent battery capacity in the triangle. I’ve been looking at a ton of bikes over the last week and trying to soak up as much info here.

It would be great if a bike maker could do a limited series specifically designed for the tangent lol

Anyway trying to sort up electricity for the time being and get workshop up and sorted after living in a tent for last 3 years. Don’t even have as much as a bench at the moment but one step at a time..

Anyway loving everyone’s contributions! The more info, thoughts and bike configurations the better, The tangent seems to be worth all the fuss. it’s hard not to get excited.

cheers

Hey it's Patrick, I wrote the Tangent/Canyon Strive article on electricbike.com.

Had some other things that required my full attention lately so haven't been following ebike stuff as closely.

Briefly:

One thing I can mention right off - if budget is an issue - is that you may indeed find the BBSHD at 72/84v meets much of your needs for less $. I am truly amazed at the performance of my 84v 'HD bikes, and the 3300w or so they put out is about 90% of the max power I find myself using on the Tangent bike anyway.

Plus u get the benefit of silence, which if like me you are riding on mixed-use trails, with hikers/cyclists/horses etc nearby, makes a big difference. Tangent is still king but HD at 84v is amazingly fun, high revving like Tangent (at 20:1) and subjectively provides 70% of the max power via butt dyno. Also about which reduction ratio to use, I didn't read your whole thread but I have used both 20:1 and 40:1. I have a slight preference for 20:1 (mostly offroad trail/MX style use). But I like each in different ways and actually think both ratios are not ideal; for me something in between like 30:1 would be perfect. 20:1 revs like crazy but is too tall to use anything much over 3rd/4th gear; 40:1 has amazing torque but is really, really short. And once you have a setup that can do 250ish pedal RPM (instead of 150), you will likely never go back.

Hardest part may be sourcing a well-made 72v pack, custom for your application. I ended up making all my packs myself b/c nobody offered the size/capacity I needed plus I wanted to make sure they were done right.

Tangent is still of course the King, but 'HD at 84v is pretty f'in amazing.

To clarify - in other words, when riding the Tangent bike in 'unlimited' mode (120A) - I find that I very rarely (less than 10% of the time) consume more than 3300w, the max a 84v 'HD can put out. There are times, esp. with 20:1, where I see occasional 4kW+ peaks, but I have experimented with limiting that bike to 3300w and it rarely puts a hamper on the amount of power I need to use in different situations. 6kW max is crazy tho, and if noise and budget aren't issues, I say definitely go for it.

evolveinla said:

I find that I very rarely (less than 10% of the time) consume more than 3300w, the max a 84v 'HD can put out.

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Having ridden both the 3KW and 6KW Tangent for a while now, more and more I'm leaving it in one gear for the majority of the trail riding. If your drivetrain can handle it, and mine questionably can, the big Tangent doesn't mind launching in a higher gear with tons of load. I still use the lower gears for ridiculously steep or rocky sections, but it's nice to leave it in one gear that you can launch from and still hit 30-35 mph before it winds out. It gives you the throttle predictability of a hub motor. At 7-8KW you could easily run single speed. Just need a bike that doesn't flex, and something closer to dirtbike chain and cogs. Unfortunately, my current frame likes to flex, and 10 speed stuff will break under enough power. So I have to baby it a little.

How's this build coming along?