Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

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John in CR
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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by John in CR » Jan 16, 2018 12:06 am

I only got to 172kph, but that was at about 700m (not a mile) where I let off the throttle due to what appeared to be something on the road, so it had a bit more to give. I had already ridden a couple of miles to get to the start point, so voltage was down a bit and motor wasn't cold. I'm hoping my current build will top out above 180, due to a 3% increase in pack voltage (31s instead of 30s), a stiffer pack (less sag), and a 6% bigger wheel. While the bigger wheel seems to contradict what I always say about wheel size, my motor was unstressed before, and I believe my greater attention to aero and personal weight loss will more than offset the negatives of higher gearing. My biggest problem is finding a good place and time for a real top speed run.

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Jan 16, 2018 2:06 am

Well as you can see in my signature I need 740m (around 20 seconds) for reaching 200,49 kph with the 400 phase amp controller but with 42S battery pack.
Now I will reduce the battery pack to 30S (25 Ah) but I will have up to 800 phase amps.
Ok my motor will not turn as fast as before but I hope to get up to 160 kph with much better acceleration!
But first let me build up my new design motorcycle!
For testing: Do you have an airplane field next to you?
Well I can test my vehicle at this area!
People are very interested in to see my motorcycle running (no noise, no combustion ...).
That´s the reason I can do it there.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

John in CR
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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by John in CR » Jan 16, 2018 11:10 pm

Rovii wrote:
Jan 16, 2018 2:06 am
Well as you can see in my signature I need 740m (around 20 seconds) for reaching 200,49 kph with the 400 phase amp controller but with 42S battery pack.
Now I will reduce the battery pack to 30S (25 Ah) but I will have up to 800 phase amps.
Ok my motor will not turn as fast as before but I hope to get up to 160 kph with much better acceleration!
But first let me build up my new design motorcycle!
For testing: Do you have an airplane field next to you?
Well I can test my vehicle at this area!
People are very interested in to see my motorcycle running (no noise, no combustion ...).
That´s the reason I can do it there.
How about some battery amp numbers? While the motor only sees phase amps, they're just for show. Battery amps are for go, because you can't turn anything into power unless even more power comes out of the battery. In addition, there's now way us common folks can measure phase amps, and there's multiple ways to quote them (eg peak limit or rms). You can bet your bottom dollar that Kelly, who's well know for inflated specs isn't talking about rms and peak is meaningless.

There's no doubt your motor can handle more current, but if you're really serious about getting the most out of it, then you need the high voltage and high current. Actually, an even higher voltage than you ran along with a smaller wheel, so you can hit the 200 in 400m or less. Once you surpass LFP's time with a hubbie, then he'll get serious and give us a crazy mid-drive drag bike to ogle.

I'm just glad to see someone get serious with a beast of a hubbie. Hopefully my complacency is finally at an end, so I can try to top it by building a dual HubMonster bike running a 150V+ pack to demonstrate what's possible with a daily rider setup that sends gassers running away with tails between their legs. My little commuter scooter kinda does that now, but the liter bikes get pissed off and come screaming by within 100-150m. It takes the regular motos at least a kilometer

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Jan 17, 2018 1:15 am

Well I am using Turnigy Heavy Duty 6S 5000mAh (60/120C).
I tested on battery with over 200A for short.
In my last setup I worked with 175V DC (fully charged) 20Ah.
So I think to have enough power for the short run.
You are right I only posted the numbers of Kelly´s data specification.
Now I bought me a measurement device which can measure up to 1500A AC/DC to check out which amps the Emsiso controller will give out and then I can compare it to my settings.
So let´s wait until I can start with testings.
BTW the hubmotor was foreseen for a bicycle not a heavy motorcycle. Therefore I will change later on back to mid drive system.
But also there I only want to play with only 125V DC not more! I alos know, that real drag bikes running @ 400-600V DC and around 2000A but that´s another league. So at the end of planning with my motorcycle I hopefully will reach the 200kW but that will take some years! Next year I want to start with the middrive system and this year I hopefully will have fun with the hubmotor.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Jan 22, 2018 1:32 am

I know everybody knows how a GSXR K2 looks like.
And I am coming closer and closer to the finish look.
Attachments
VVK 009.JPG
VVK 009.JPG (140.92 KiB) Viewed 604 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii
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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Jan 26, 2018 2:52 am

After additional rebuild also the additional frame get´s black color now
IMG_2488.JPG
IMG_2488.JPG (142.68 KiB) Viewed 555 times
Got also new swing arm for next project phase in autumn ...
IMG_2205a.jpg
(161.52 KiB) Not downloaded yet
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by liveforphysics » Jan 26, 2018 4:00 am

Rovii wrote:
Jan 17, 2018 1:15 am
Well I am using Turnigy Heavy Duty 6S 5000mAh (60/120C).
I tested on battery with over 200A for short.
In my last setup I worked with 175V DC (fully charged) 20Ah.
So I think to have enough power for the short run.
You are right I only posted the numbers of Kelly´s data specification.
Now I bought me a measurement device which can measure up to 1500A AC/DC to check out which amps the Emsiso controller will give out and then I can compare it to my settings.
So let´s wait until I can start with testings.
BTW the hubmotor was foreseen for a bicycle not a heavy motorcycle. Therefore I will change later on back to mid drive system.
But also there I only want to play with only 125V DC not more! I alos know, that real drag bikes running @ 400-600V DC and around 2000A but that´s another league. So at the end of planning with my motorcycle I hopefully will reach the 200kW but that will take some years! Next year I want to start with the middrive system and this year I hopefully will have fun with the hubmotor.
I would bump that pack up to 30Ah, by adding ~10Ah of packs in the 1.5-2.5Ah range of the same series of high C-rate cell. This is just because while the 5Ah cells themselves handle the discharge pretty decently, the soldered busing and discharge lead solder joints tend to come un-soldered from them, hence using whatever is the smallest Ah super-high C-rate cell with the largest discharge leads. Should make the setup more reliable and improve your trap speed significantly from reduced sag.
Bike looks like a rocket, excited to see it run like one!
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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Jan 26, 2018 6:37 am

Hey Luke,
thanks for this information but for this year I have finished my plans regarding battery box and battery types.
But for autumn I will take your information into consideration.
There are only 2,2Ah packages with 4S.
Maybe I have to reduce the max voltage than to 28S!
Now I am playing with 5x6S, where I want to charge the 5th package only to 4,1 V/cell that I do not reach the max voltage of 125V.
I hope to get it running within the next 4 weeks and want to start the first tests in March/April.
I also know that everybody who will see this bike expect absolute top results but 14kW continuous power /34kW peak is too less for that motorcycle!
So next year I want to start with Emrax 228 and hope to get better results with this solution.
Maybe I will implement the hubmotor to my bicycle but actually I do not really know!

Andre
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by SlowCo » Jan 26, 2018 8:28 am

It seems you have enough room on top of the swing arm just in front of the rear tire to add a "mid"drive motor with a chain to the hub motor. That motor would also put some extra weight on the rear tire. A used motor and controller from a Zero motorcycle would be perfect. But even a 110V brushed motor with at least 10kW rating would be great. And with an additional brushed motor you wouldn't even need a controller just a contacter and a switch. This way you can keep your current set up and just "add on" :twisted:

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by toolman2 » Jan 26, 2018 9:37 am

SlowCo wrote:
Jan 26, 2018 8:28 am
It seems you have enough room on top of the swing arm just in front of the rear tire to add a "mid"drive motor with a chain to the hub motor. That motor would also put some extra weight on the rear tire. A used motor and controller from a Zero motorcycle would be perfect. But even a 110V brushed motor with at least 10kW rating would be great. And with an additional brushed motor you wouldn't even need a controller just a contacter and a switch. This way you can keep your current set up and just "add on" :twisted:
I think a controller might still be a good idea, limiting the current to a motors maximum saturated torque output has zero loss in output and would make the pass faster further down the line from less current draw, sag and heat through the whole system.

It would be interesting to have a look at the motors resistance and feed that 110v and you may get thousands of amps off the line that could be a bit thermally challenging for those discharge lead solder joints. :wink:

-edit; just remembered you have 110v mains in the US, so you might mean a hefty but high resistance mains motor i spose.

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Jan 28, 2018 1:33 am

First cabeling of 50mm2 is done

https://youtu.be/RMGvVQfVjRA[/youtube]
Sorry, only in German language!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Lebowski » Jan 28, 2018 3:29 am

Hmmm, so the bat positive exits on one side of the battery straight to the controller, while bat negative wraps around the batterybox and goes underneath to the controller. Thus maximising inductance... :(

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Jan 28, 2018 5:24 am

Only 5 cm difference in length
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Lebowski » Jan 28, 2018 4:08 pm

Its not the length that counts, but the circumvence.... where have i heard that one before ?

The area enclosed by the current counts for the inductance. This is why busbars are so low inductance, they enclose virtually no area.

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by liveforphysics » Jan 28, 2018 9:59 pm

Rovii wrote:
Jan 26, 2018 6:37 am
Hey Luke,
thanks for this information but for this year I have finished my plans regarding battery box and battery types.
But for autumn I will take your information into consideration.
There are only 2,2Ah packages with 4S.
Maybe I have to reduce the max voltage than to 28S!
Now I am playing with 5x6S, where I want to charge the 5th package only to 4,1 V/cell that I do not reach the max voltage of 125V.
I hope to get it running within the next 4 weeks and want to start the first tests in March/April.
I also know that everybody who will see this bike expect absolute top results but 14kW continuous power /34kW peak is too less for that motorcycle!
So next year I want to start with Emrax 228 and hope to get better results with this solution.
Maybe I will implement the hubmotor to my bicycle but actually I do not really know!

Andre


You've got a pretty solid copper mass and iron mass advantage over an Emrax, and potentially a dragbike with no drivetrain failures or drama or sprocket changes ever needed. The Emrax is capable of swinging the field in it's mass of iron more often for a given vehicle speed, effectively like usage frequency per mass of iron is better. However, for drag racing, they don't even run liquid coolant in the blocks because it's over before it would circulate through a radiator anyways, and I think EV drag will end up the same way where ultimately no replacement for copper mass, iron mass and all the phase current state of the air semi-conductor tech and power EE current control skills can support.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Jan 29, 2018 2:45 am

Ok, you mean that old school technic with brushed fork lift motors and Zilla2K controller will be the better solution for drag racing.
Is this correct?
But I don´t want to play with voltages up to 400V and higher and also the weight of the motors are extremely high!
I also asked QS Motors to make me a 6 phase hubmotor but they don´t have any experience with this and do not want to manufacture it for me.
Do you know an address, where I can found a good powerfull hubmotor (6 phase version) which can handle up to 1600A @ 125V DC max, maybe a little bit less (e.g. 96V) with RLS RM44AC feedback sensor?

Thanks for your friendly assist.
Kind regards from GER

Andre
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Jan 29, 2018 7:45 am

Lebowski wrote:
Jan 28, 2018 4:08 pm
Its not the length that counts, but the circumvence.... where have i heard that one before ?

The area enclosed by the current counts for the inductance. This is why busbars are so low inductance, they enclose virtually no area.
Well I think my English is to bad! I do not really understand it.
Here you see a picture of the controller. The battery box is direct above it.
Should I go with bat- in parallel with Bat+ on one side of battery box?
Both cables goes direct down to the corresponding connection points of the controller.
I will get problems with 50mm² cable if I run parallel with bat+, latest when I try to get the radius behind the seal amp connector!
Attachments
WWW 014aa.jpg
WWW 014aa.jpg (86.57 KiB) Viewed 412 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii
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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Jan 30, 2018 5:47 am

Install now new expansion tank for cooling system (nice to have feature).
Attachments
IMG_2525.JPG
IMG_2525.JPG (128.69 KiB) Viewed 387 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii
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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Feb 05, 2018 2:31 am

Another update for later change back to chain drive.
Attachments
WE 026.ajpg.jpg
WE 026.ajpg.jpg (97.31 KiB) Viewed 292 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii
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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Feb 08, 2018 2:50 am

Change now the cheap car hifi terminals with his tiny screws to a solid 50mm x 10mm copper bus bar to prevent burning cables!
Attachments
50mm² 017a.jpg
50mm² 017a.jpg (224.59 KiB) Viewed 243 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii
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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Feb 18, 2018 11:32 pm

So last weekend I finished cabling.
Waiting now on some fuses, front wheel and carbon rear rail fairing.
Attachments
98FB1963-A279-440C-B990-72E4D36D2B0E.jpeg
98FB1963-A279-440C-B990-72E4D36D2B0E.jpeg (158.14 KiB) Viewed 21 times
A13CFE07-73EE-4C8A-9012-D43E0E7BDEE3.jpeg
A13CFE07-73EE-4C8A-9012-D43E0E7BDEE3.jpeg (99.65 KiB) Viewed 21 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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