Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Well that's ruined that
I have a new max range from the surron in economy mode, testing vid coming as soon as I can find where I dumped the footage!
In the mean time, here, have a wheelie

Surron vs dirt bike proof fence.
The surron is skinnier than most dirt bikes, but it is THIS skinny ?

[youtube]EJFFT6uKIdI[/youtube]

For those interested in facts regarding the bike in question, please see the attached owners manual for the said bike.
This will be packaged inside all cartons containing the said bike and the carton will read LIGHT BEE.

Sorry to all you Firefly lovers

Owners' Manual LIGHT BEE.pdf[/attachment]

Thank you for the manual. In Europe however I think main issue will remain the EU homologation to use the bike legally on streets. The Little Dragon is great design, it reflects the new generation of designer and entrepreneurs from China, this is the future to come. But for offroad 50km is just one mountain, not enough range for real offroad. This kind of bike is ideal for urban mobility and for country side mobility. In the countryside it could be used maybe in certain areas without registration but for the moment we can not use it in cities. I put the product on my online shop in Romania http://ibikes.ro, I will be ready to buy stock when EU homologation will be done.

Somebody who owns the bike could kindly tell me what's the brand of the wheels manufacturer? All the photos and videos online don't zoom close enough to be able to read it. I noticed there are two versions of this bike also, is the only difference in the wheels?

racingame said:

Somebody who owns the bike could kindly tell me what's the brand of the wheels manufacturer? All the photos and videos online don't zoom close enough to be able to read it. I noticed there are two versions of this bike also, is the only difference in the wheels?

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[youtube]Nst1fVwwx-w[/youtube]

John talks about the wheels in the video. The rims are standard aluminum 19X1.40 MC rims. You can get rims similiar to this from Prowheel racing http://www.prowheelracing.com/yamaha-play-bike-front-rim-1-40-x-19-black/

One version

Three options

Colour, voltage and forks.

Alex Imreh said:

Thank you for the manual. In Europe however I think main issue will remain the EU homologation to use the bike legally on streets. The Little Dragon is great design, it reflects the new generation of designer and entrepreneurs from China, this is the future to come. But for offroad 50km is just one mountain, not enough range for real offroad. This kind of bike is ideal for urban mobility and for country side mobility. In the countryside it could be used maybe in certain areas without registration but for the moment we can not use it in cities. I put the product on my online shop in Romania http://ibikes.ro, I will be ready to buy stock when EU homologation will be done.

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You are correct, but taking it a step further, even the mighty Alta Redshift Moto has only 20 minutes of range under race conditions on a Moto X track. https://www.altamotors.co/redshiftmx Alta claims this machine has 4 hours of ride range under offroad trail use, and it would as long as the rider didn't use anymore than 1400wh per hour. (kind of weird saying this that way) For a machine that weighs 270+ pounds, keeping power output down that low would be very very boring to say the least, and maybe impossible. This would be totally doable with a 30amp controller running a MAC10 on 14s on a sub 100 pound ebike running WOT the whole time. I guess my point is, I don't know of any electric bikes out there that would have a true gasser range potential, at least not yet.

Rix said:

Alex Imreh said:

Thank you for the manual. In Europe however I think main issue will remain the EU homologation to use the bike legally on streets. The Little Dragon is great design, it reflects the new generation of designer and entrepreneurs from China, this is the future to come. But for offroad 50km is just one mountain, not enough range for real offroad. This kind of bike is ideal for urban mobility and for country side mobility. In the countryside it could be used maybe in certain areas without registration but for the moment we can not use it in cities. I put the product on my online shop in Romania http://ibikes.ro, I will be ready to buy stock when EU homologation will be done.

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You are correct, but taking it a step further, even the mighty Alta Redshift Moto has only 20 minutes of range under race conditions on a Moto X track. https://www.altamotors.co/redshiftmx Alta claims this machine has 4 hours of ride range under offroad trail use, and it would as long as the rider didn't use anymore than 1400wh per hour. (kind of weird saying this that way) For a machine that weighs 270+ pounds, keeping power output down that low would be very very boring to say the least, and maybe impossible. This would be totally doable with a 30amp controller running a MAC10 on 14s on a sub 100 pound ebike running WOT the whole time. I guess my point is, I don't know of any electric bikes out there that would have a true gasser range potential, at least not yet.

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Tacita in Italy has an electric rally motorcycle with enough battery on board to complete a 100km rally at race pace.. but of course it is pretty heavy and expensive with such huge battery packs.. Tacita, also has a small gas generator onboard option just in case..

Yes, it is simple, at present level of lithium technology and costs, electric moto bikes are best for urban mobility not for real offroad. Things are changing fast, year after year, the Little Dragon is big step, quality up, price down, enough range for countryside, commuting, it can be real competition in urban mobility for gas small motorcycles. In certain countries it could benefit of subventions and better taxes, when it will have EU homologation it will make good sales in Europe. For the moment, in my country most buyers prefer to buy something like a second hand Yamaha MT03, with more power, more range at 2000+ euro in good condition. And also there are real alternatives for most buyers coming also from China, gas bikes that are good quality/low price like AsiaWing or ZongShen, you can see here end user prices in Euro/USD on my online shop http://www.biciclete-electrice.com/Petrol

Alex Imreh said:

Thank you for the manual. In Europe however I think main issue will remain the EU homologation to use the bike legally on streets. The Little Dragon is great design, it reflects the new generation of designer and entrepreneurs from China, this is the future to come. But for offroad 50km is just one mountain, not enough range for real offroad. This kind of bike is ideal for urban mobility and for country side mobility. In the countryside it could be used maybe in certain areas without registration but for the moment we can not use it in cities. I put the product on my online shop in Romania http://ibikes.ro, I will be ready to buy stock when EU homologation will be done.

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The EU homologation will not help your range as the bike will be heavier.

The bike is designed for off-road not urban use, see the rear suspension design and tyres fitted.

You could rebuild the battery for longer range if that is necessary otherwise ride shorter trips or smaller mountains?

Here we come again. I do not know what do you call offroad. I made offroad with enduro gas bikes 120-300km per day, at the moment i think better make 100km offroad with Bafang BBS and 0.8-1.3kw lithium, better than 50km with FireFly. If we want to compare, than we should analyse Strava.com trails, otherwise each is just playing his song, we do not have a real discussion. 50km range = not offroad bike, real offroad for me is going over a few mountains, day trip, at least 100km. Offroad suspension is not enough when all you can do is go to your neighbour and back on a bumpy short road, offroad is at least 100km uphill trails, altitude gains over 2000m per trip.

Off-road terms means terrain.
A sealed road is considered urban and dirt trail is off road in my terminology.
Sorry for the confusion.

This is good information, here i can analyse speed / slope, yes this is offroad trail, but capability of going over such a trail do not make this bike an offroad motorcycle as long as range is too small to get from one place to another, to see something in a day, not just fooling around your truck for one hour. Yes you can have nice offroad fun with this bike but can not make real offroad trips.
So I say that the Little Dragon is perfect for urban mobility and countryside short commuting, it is a big step forward for the EV rEvolution but it can not replace offroad motorcycles at this moment.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1355957182/analysis

Hard core dirt riding with the Sur-ron is 20 miles

I would prefer 50kms on a Light Bee/Bee/Firefly/Little Dragon over 100kms on a Bafang BBS.

The riding I do cooked my Bomber and damaged my Tangent drive so a Bafang is never gonna cut it.

Adam i think we can agree like this: Little Dragon is a dream come true, works like an enduro gas motorcycle, 40km range is enough for you, not enough for me. We will live our dream, the dream of EV rEvolution, waiting/working for more range and power without gas. If i would be there visiting you, i would be happy to try the FireFly, you make a nice job by letting people try it, it will sell well. But if i would want go for a real offroad, one day exploration in your bushes, i would ask from you this bike, that is you in the picture?

Yes that is me! Wow i have my very own stalker!

10 years ago when i had the time to load my bike/gear and drive 3 hours to go riding!
Times change, so i moved closer to the riding location.
Now i can ride 20kms every day instead of 100kms once a month!

P.S I do miss my 2008 Honda CRF450X :wink:

Now i can ride 20kms every day instead of 100kms once a month!

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Made the same observations 6 years ago when I first got my Stealth Bomber. I sold my 08 SXF250 and 09 XCF450 KTMs to bank roll the purchase. People, other than the ones here on ES, thought I was crazy. They asked me why I sold my bikes. At best, I was riding one of my gassers 3 times a month, which was about once a week, had to dedicate one entire weekend to the family. The average ride was around 40-55 miles, And I didn't ride as often in the winter months. So I was averaging about 1500 miles of riding per year. The first 2 years I got my Bomber, I rode it almost every day averaging about 18-20 miles, except during the winter months. By the end of the second year, before my dad commandeered the Bomber, I had around 5300 miles on it. So when I took into consideration my ride time and saddle time and compared the $$ spent on the Bomber, VS $$ spent on my KTMS, I was way ahead of the game as far as money VS saddle time on the Bomber. Dont get me wrong, the the gnarly riding I did and the places I had seen on my KTMs, no ebike or e-motorcycle will work. For an e-motorcycle to have the range I need, I would have to have north of 15kwh of battery on board a 250 pound machine to do a 60 mile ride at Desert Creek. Elevation goes from 5000 feet to 12000 feet and would eat up alot of battery. Anyway sorry to get off topic, as far as the Sur-Ron goes, I have access to some fun riding about 4 miles from my house, I will be hauling the bike and unloading it.

Rix said:

Now i can ride 20kms every day instead of 100kms once a month!

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Made the same observations 6 years ago when I first got my Stealth Bomber.

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And I made the same observations 10 years ago, before stealth existed! It's how I first got into building ebikes, for all those exact reasons. Back then ebike tech and power was pretty tame so going from a 250cc to something that was 50cc equivalent was a bit uninspiring. But it was better than the alternative of busting your arse pedaling on the local trails, and better than not riding at all because as above it was a mission to load up the trailer and then travel 2 hrs away.
But now, ebike tech is totally up there with gas bikes and infact far superior IMO when you factor in the points Rix made above for opportunistic rides in semi urban environments. My brother inlaw thought my 10kw alpha was a toy, until he got off his KTM 450 and promptly flipped himself off the back. :lol:
Sometimes I duck over the back fence for a quick 40 minute ride while the wife is at the shops and she comes home none the wiser (ie I don't burn any brownie points for disappearing for half the day and leaving her with our shitty kids :lol: )

If you live somewhere where you regularly can ride 100km a day or more then lucky you - for me I get this opportunity maybe twice a year and I'd gladly trade it off for the surron for more regular local rides. And for the sort of riding I do, I don't think I'd want to be doing 100km of that stuff!

I just set a new PB of 75km range on the surron, which was a 2.5hr round trip of exploring firetrails. That's as much time as I'd ever get to ride in a single sitting anyway so that's pretty bloody decent. Granted that was taking it easy, but even smashing around I dont think I could flatten it in much under 50km.
That economy run vid will be uploaded tonight

I just set a new PB of 75km range on the surron, which was a 2.5hr round trip of exploring firetrails.

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If I can get someone to make a 65T rear sprocket for the Sur-Ron, we will see more range I imagine. Top speed will be brought down from 45MPH to about 38 to 39MPH, more than okay with that. Research has told me the Sur-Ron is using a 420 Pitch MC chain. Might be able to redrill another brand of sprocket if one can be found.

I will have 58T sprockets in a few weeks!

Soon many Americans will be riding!

Yeeee Haaaa

Aebrennan said:

The bike is designed for off-road not urban use, see the rear suspension design and tyres fitted.

You could rebuild the battery for longer range if that is necessary otherwise ride shorter trips or smaller mountains?

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there is no reason that Sur ron would not make for a good dual sport or super moto type bike for urban and/or on and off road use with only some minor component changes.. just add some dual sport style tires and mirrors.. doesn't sur ron come with a horn and rear light already installed? what purpose do those components serve on the trails?? if one wants to use sur ron for predominantly street use then some smaller diameter wheels and shorter travel suspension could easily be fitted.. doesn't the company already have pics on their website of sur ron fitted with street tires and mirrors?? isn't the company already working towards homolgation for the european market.. surely an increase in potential use would translate into more bike sales.. LMX was also developed as a dirt bike but is now being marketed and sold as a moped.. after all, you can ride a dirt bike on the street (depending on legality and enforcement), but you can not ride a street bike on the trails (or at least you wouldn't want to)..

yeah, a big truck of awesome!

Anybody gotten past 1600km? I have concerns about the front hub flange stress cracking because of the spoke diameter, and we always saw the fractures or spoke head failure around the 1600km mark. The length of the spokes in a 19" may be the saving grace, but the flange width is not really wide enough to be aluminum and handle the force of a 12ga spoke. The front hub is the same as a normal mountain bike hub, and we saw them crack at volt riders with 12ga spokes and 17" rims, which is why we insisted on using 13ga for all the customer builds. The rear hub has more angle of the spoke (higher flange diameter), so it at least the spoke force pulls against a larger amount of alloy.


Just a concern I have, hopefully not an actual problem. My assumption is that the length of the spoke is giving it enough stretch at lower tension, so the choice of 19" rim makes the wheel build work.