new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

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Alex07   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Alex07 » Jan 14 2018 8:51pm

At 72v what is the full throttle no load current you get on the c3000w with the motor alone and also with the gearbox added ?

also lastly maybe with the back chain connected to the bike ?

just want to see how it compares to the 6kw tangent astro as that does 350w full throttle no load with no bike chain connected just motor and gearbox. is that normal ?

Bullfrog   10 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Bullfrog » Jan 14 2018 9:40pm

Need input from others as well.

Sort of an Apples to Oranges comparison but with my BBSHD running a 58.8v battery, motor connected to the chain and chain to the rear wheel and ready to ride....I get about 90 watts when I hold the rear tire off the ground and hold the throttle wide open. 350 watts sounds a little high to me but my setup may not be relevant.

Anybody have a setup closer to Alex07 that would be a better comparison?

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 22 2018 7:12am

On sale now at HobbyKing:

but who knows what the real price is?


Multistar High Capacity 20000mAh 6S 10C Multi-Rotor Lipo Pack had been $151.79 now $127. But they now show that the price had been $132.79.

This brick size when compared to other useful ebike sizes they sell had been the cheapest when measured by $/kwhr. These 6S 20000mAh batteries are seldom on sale so I picked up a few to power the 4Kw coax motor elite bike. It looks like there is plenty of room in the triangle.

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Skaiwerd   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Jan 22 2018 9:33am

DingusMcGee wrote:
Jan 22 2018 7:12am
On sale now at HobbyKing:

but who knows what the real price is?


Multistar High Capacity 20000mAh 6S 10C Multi-Rotor Lipo Pack had been $151.79 now $127. But they now show that the price had been $132.79.

This brick size when compared to other useful ebike sizes they sell had been the cheapest when measured by $/kwhr. These 6S 20000mAh batteries are seldom on sale so I picked up a few to power the 4Kw coax motor elite bike. It looks like there is plenty of room in the triangle.
DingusMcgee

So the 20k is about the price of the 16k. 6s batt. The 16k didn’t go on sale mid December like last year saving around $50 each. On sale now but only a $12 savings. I think due to demand and not much choice the brick batteries are going on sale less or maybe never again.

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 22 2018 10:04am

DingusMcgee

So the 20k is about the price of the 16k. 6s batt. The 16k didn’t go on sale mid December like last year saving around $50 each. On sale now but only a $12 savings. I think due to demand and not much choice the brick batteries are going on sale less or maybe never again.
Hi Skaiwerd,

Yes, I look at HobbyKing Multistar prices about every day and wait for a good price. Because the 16k didn't go on sale until now? I decided to go for the 20kAh.

Now that they have reduced the 16k from $124.65 to $112.23 I suppose they are about equal in the cost measure of $/kwH? The 20K looks for my situation as maybe the ideal pack or double 'em up 40k for the long rides. I have 32aH on the Big Hit. I did a 73 mile ride and reached cutoff voltage. The rides I am currently doing would take less than a 12k pack and a lighter bike would be convenient -- other than easier wheelies.

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Skaiwerd   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Jan 22 2018 11:13am

DingusMcGee wrote:
Jan 22 2018 10:04am
DingusMcgee

So the 20k is about the price of the 16k. 6s batt. The 16k didn’t go on sale mid December like last year saving around $50 each. On sale now but only a $12 savings. I think due to demand and not much choice the brick batteries are going on sale less or maybe never again.
Hi Skaiwerd,

Yes, I look at HobbyKing Multistar prices about every day and wait for a good price. Because the 16k didn't go on sale until now? I decided to go for the 20kAh.

Now that they have reduced the 16k from $124.65 to $112.23 I suppose they are about equal in the cost measure of $/kwH? The 20K looks for my situation as maybe the ideal pack or double 'em up 40k for the long rides. I have 32aH on the Big Hit. I did a 73 mile ride and reached cutoff voltage. The rides I am currently doing would take less than a 12k pack and a lighter bike would be convenient -- other than easier wheelies.

And with free shipping in the USA that’s a $10 per battery savings. I can also now use PayPal credit and not just my credit card to buy them. Six months no interest.

ryanf55   10 µW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ryanf55 » Jan 26 2018 1:54am

Hello all, first post here on Endless Sphere.

Two questions regarding the Cyclone Fat-Kit from Luna I've installed on my Fat-Bike...

1) Does anybody have a recommended way to install some spacers over the drive-side motor bolts to add a chain guard? I plan to cut my own guard out of aluminum.

2) Is there a pad somewhere on Luna's 60A Bluetooth controller to read the current? I'm doing my own homebrew Arduino Cycle-Analyst type thing and don't want to add a separate current sensor.

Thanks!

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 26 2018 8:35am

ryanf55,

1) Does anybody have a recommended way to install some spacers over the drive-side motor bolts to add a chain guard? I plan to cut my own guard out of aluminum.
There are standard chainring bolts of many different lengths -- sex bolts as they screw into each other. A pack of 2mm chainring spacers and a pack of 1mm chainring spacers will likely give you enough chain clearance.

The chainring bolts and chainring spacers come in many sizes. You can get a pack of them from Wheels Manufacturing, World Wide Cyclery etc.

Cyclone Taiwan has installed a black aluminum bash guard on the 4kw Elite coax motor rather than the plastic one that comes with the c3000 kit. Maybe they will become available?
IMG_6926.gif
The Cyclone plastic bash guard and the Cyclone alum bash guard
IMG_6926.gif (125.1 KiB) Viewed 1677 times

flat tire   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Jan 26 2018 12:16pm

ryanf55 wrote:
Jan 26 2018 1:54am
Hello all, first post here on Endless Sphere.

Two questions regarding the Cyclone Fat-Kit from Luna I've installed on my Fat-Bike...

1) Does anybody have a recommended way to install some spacers over the drive-side motor bolts to add a chain guard? I plan to cut my own guard out of aluminum.

2) Is there a pad somewhere on Luna's 60A Bluetooth controller to read the current? I'm doing my own homebrew Arduino Cycle-Analyst type thing and don't want to add a separate current sensor.

Thanks!
The Luna controller probably isn't that great but if it has a CA lead there will be a shunt wire included on it. If there's no CA lead that's really inexcusable.

ryanf55   10 µW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ryanf55 » Jan 29 2018 3:15pm

Thanks for the offer, but I was looking for where to get spacer bolts to offset a guard over the motor like in this one I found:
Image

To flat tire:
I'll open the case up and look for a shunt resistor. I know there has to be once since the controller is measuring current somewhere. It displays instantaneous current on the app.
DingusMcGee wrote:
Jan 26 2018 8:35am
ryanf55,

1) Does anybody have a recommended way to install some spacers over the drive-side motor bolts to add a chain guard? I plan to cut my own guard out of aluminum.
There are standard chainring bolts of many different lengths -- sex bolts as they screw into each other. A pack of 2mm chainring spacers and a pack of 1mm chainring spacers will likely give you enough chain clearance.

The chainring bolts and chainring spacers come in many sizes. You can get a pack of them from Wheels Manufacturing, World Wide Cyclery etc.

Cyclone Taiwan has installed a black aluminum bash guard on the 4kw Elite coax motor rather than the plastic one that comes with the c3000 kit. Maybe they will become available?

IMG_6926.gif

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 29 2018 8:31pm

ryanf55,

the spacers used on the red & silver bike you show I got in the Hilman boxed fastener group at the local Ace Hardware.

You can get something quite similar from McMaster Carr.

see

https://www.mcmaster.com/#spacers/=1bceu8a

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Jan 30 2018 12:23pm

Finally installed the SBP "HD mounts" which I guess are the new style of mount from cyclone. The fitment wasn't superb so we'll see what happens when I ride later. At least the static flex appears totally reduced.

GIGATT   100 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by GIGATT » Jan 31 2018 6:59pm

Hey my chain keeps popping off. I tried several different things... I feel dumb
Should I add spacers at point 1. where the motor touches the mount or at point 2. the BB?

spacer-endless13118.jpg

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Feb 01 2018 6:24am

GIGATT,

Hey my chain keeps popping off. I tried several different things... I feel dumb
Should I add spacers at point 1. where the motor touches the mount or at point 2. the BB?
From your top view picture I cannot tell whether you have stiffened the motor frame properly. If the motor frame is not stiff enough, a perfectly aligned chain will come off under accelerations with a load on the wheel because the flexible motor frame will get out of chain alignment between the motor pulley and bb chainring.

minimum   10 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by minimum » Feb 01 2018 12:01pm

Good way to check motor chain(-rings) alignment is with the chain off. Press ruler to the side of chainring and check whether there will be a cap between ruler and freewheel cog or between ruler and front edge of chainring.
In first case, there's also possible to make small adjustments by releasing the screw ( small internal hex) and prying/pulling freewheel away from motor (I wouldn't go further than a few mm).
In 2nd case, add M6 washer(s) between right mounting bracket and motor, to extend those spacers, shown on your picture, no 1.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by GIGATT » Feb 02 2018 3:17am

Thank you for the prompt response. I will try to add spacers at point 1.the alignmrnt is straight. I think I will stiffen the motor mount

minimum wrote:
Feb 01 2018 12:01pm
Good way to check motor chain(-rings) alignment is with the chain off. Press ruler to the side of chainring and check whether there will be a cap between ruler and freewheel cog or between ruler and front edge of chainring.
In first case, there's also possible to make small adjustments by releasing the screw ( small internal hex) and prying/pulling freewheel away from motor (I wouldn't go further than a few mm).
In 2nd case, add M6 washer(s) between right mounting bracket and motor, to extend those spacers, shown on your picture, no 1.

minimum   10 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by minimum » Feb 02 2018 11:48am

GIGATT wrote:
Feb 02 2018 3:17am
Thank you for the prompt response. I will try to add spacers at point 1.the alignmrnt is straight. I think I will stiffen the motor mount
If sprocket and motor cog line up and it still throws off the chain then I can think of another 3 reasons:
1. Chain tensioner is not aligned or loose (laterally) so it will de-rail the chain.
2. There's a play between BB axle and bearing and/or bearing and it's housing. Mine did - shaft was turned in machine shop with excessive tolerances which created play and twist of shaft's axis which in turn misaligned chainring. Cyclone TW had actually put plumbers tape between shaft and bearing to reduce the play but that PTFE tape is really soft.
3. Freewheel (within chainring) has a play. Uncommon for a brand new. Mine developed some play quite fast, within first 100-200km; but it has held so far (900km).

4. Or, a combination of those three above :roll:

GIGATT   100 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by GIGATT » Feb 02 2018 2:22pm

Thanks for the info,

I had some stiffening initially, but I took it off because eventually, the chain came off. All of the reinforcing that I had seen was for the older style cyclone mounts. I have the kind of mount in these pictures... the (bent plate) mount. (the dirtiest looking picture is mine)

Is there a known way to reinforce that (bent plate) mount? I am trying to find a place that sells a through bolt that long.

I was going to try the robocam mount then I saw where you suggested a through bolt. It took a while to finally find pictures of both and they are both the other style of mount.

The original picture was just to see if I should add spacers at point 1 or point 2

DingusMcGee wrote:
Feb 01 2018 6:24am
GIGATT,

Hey, my chain keeps popping off. I tried several different things... I feel dumb
Should I add spacers at point 1. where the motor touches the mount or at point 2. the BB?
From your top view picture I cannot tell whether you have stiffened the motor frame properly. If the motor frame is not stiff enough, a perfectly aligned chain will come off under accelerations with a load on the wheel because the flexible motor frame will get out of chain alignment between the motor pulley and bb chainring.
Attachments
2118esndspehermoount-cyclone.jpg
Endless sphere.jpg

GIGATT   100 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by GIGATT » Feb 02 2018 2:47pm

There is a little play in the freewheel on the Chainring/crank... I heard there should be a washer there?

"Agreed with Christian, in my experience (all my eBikes have a Cyclone triple chainring) the crank freewheel NEEDs the washer when the crank is threaded onto it... otherwise it will come off and make it so wobbly it would be bad. This happened to me on the first freewheel I installed on the trike, within 100 miles the freewheel was so wobbly it wasn't even funny, and when I took it out the freewheel spew all its little ball bearings all over the floor... it was my mistake for not putting the washer when I threaded the crank arm to the freewheel"

... I am not sure what kind of washer. All of the other 3 reasons seem to be OK... I think :cry:

Thanks again! I owe you like 2.00 paypal




minimum wrote:
Feb 02 2018 11:48am
GIGATT wrote:
Feb 02 2018 3:17am
Thank you for the prompt response. I will try to add spacers at point 1.the alignment is straight. I think I will stiffen the motor mount
If sprocket and motor cog line up and it still throws off the chain then I can think of another 3 reasons:
1. Chain tensioner is not aligned or loose (laterally) so it will de-rail the chain.
2. There's a play between BB axle and bearing and/or bearing and it's housing. Mine did - shaft was turned in machine shop with excessive tolerances which created play and twist of shaft's axis which in turn misaligned chainring. Cyclone TW had actually put plumbers tape between shaft and bearing to reduce the play but that PTFE tape is really soft.
3. Freewheel (within chainring) has a play. Uncommon for a brand new. Mine developed some play quite fast, within first 100-200km; but it has held so far (900km).

4. Or, a combination of those three above :roll:

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by minimum » Feb 02 2018 3:14pm

Left side (that thin bent one) mount needs to be between two nuts (large thin toothed one) on BB. I used one from my old BB that came off when installing Cyclone. That way you can control how far the mount sits on BB and keep it flexing under load.
In theory it controls angle between motor and BB axes (ideally should be parallel) so when it's loose as in your last picture, it may allow enough flex/movement to misalign chainring.
Left mount to motor screws do not need to be long, 20-25mm is enough. Through-all long bolt is pointless - it wont add any stiffness and I'm not even sure motor mounting holes are threaded through (which would be pointless IMO).
I have run same mounts without any additional stiffening (68mm BB) with motor pulling up to 60A from battery and it has been OK after I got mu BB shaft "fixed".
Oh, I replaced chain tensioner arms to stainless steel (quick and ugly hack job) as those 3x12mm aluminum ones got bent really bad after few first times when motor chain came off.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Feb 05 2018 9:59pm

OK here's my issue with the heavy duty mounts. I had to grind them a little to get everything to go into place so I cannot comment on stock mounts. My BB rings are installed tightly and the off-side mount is fully compressed on the BB extension. My chain line is ok and the tensioner is installed. But, the mounts flex way too damn much. I will need to devise a better solution to use this motor at high torque.

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Feb 06 2018 8:22am

flattire,

here is my solution for stopping motor frame flex:
minimun,
. Through-all long bolt is pointless - it wont add any stiffness and I'm not even sure motor mounting holes are threaded through (which would be pointless IMO).
To begin with the above assertion by minimum is false. Thru bolts do add stiffness to the floppy hinge setup in which the motor is fastened to the motor frame side plates. I have done dial gauge readings of sideways displacement for various lateral loading of various motor frame stiffening methods to know what actually contributes to stiffness. This study is posted in this thread.

You can get long bolts from McMaster-Carr thru this link:

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-sock ... s/=1bg9a3g


The type of trail riding I do is backcountry off trail & rocky sidehills with some cobbled hill climbing. My motor fame regularly gets shock loadings from a powered spinning rear wheel hitting the dirt as the rear wheel while under throttle power gets some air on these rides and then hits the dirt. I use thru bolts and 4 long gear clamps to eliminate the motor frame flex. Stiffening the motor frame in this way is the low tech & cheap solution that works for the toughest of abuse riding these c3000 bikes can do. My chains stay on until they break.

Here is a picture of the clamp setup taken with the bike upside down.
IMG_6620.gif
4 gear clamps hold motor to frame
IMG_6620.gif (114.69 KiB) Viewed 1322 times
In particular, notice how the second clamp up from the bottom wraps around the bottom bracket shell and the motor. The placement of this clamps is what contributes the most to eliminating motor frame flex. After tightening these clamps recheck to confirm that the motor pulley and its chainring are in the same plane using a straight edge as minimum suggests. You will have to drill out the threads of the hinge plates to get the thru bolts to pass through the threaded hinges plates. Instead of using the metric 6mm bolts I switched to 1/4" Allen head grade L9 bolts which are stronger/stiffer than class metric 12.9. Grade 8 bolts will work fine.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by minimum » Feb 07 2018 12:14pm

DingusMcGee wrote:
Feb 06 2018 8:22am
To begin with the above assertion by minimum is false. Thru bolts do add stiffness to the floppy hinge setup in which the motor is fastened to the motor frame side plates.
I thought we were talking about stock ("new style") cyclone mounts.
On your mounts the difference is obvious.

GIGATT   100 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by GIGATT » Feb 07 2018 8:22pm

minimum so far adding the washers to point 1 and adding the BB nut worked so far... until I crossed that field...

WHAT VOLTAGE ARE YOU RUNNING @ 60 Amps?

DingusMcGee I will see see if the hose clamp around the BB and over the motor helps any... and maybe the through bolts on my new style cyclone mounts


minimum wrote:
Feb 07 2018 12:14pm
DingusMcGee wrote:
Feb 06 2018 8:22am
To begin with the above assertion by minimum is false. Thru bolts do add stiffness to the floppy hinge setup in which the motor is fastened to the motor frame side plates.
I thought we were talking about stock ("new style") cyclone mounts.
On your mounts the difference is obvious.

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Feb 07 2018 8:40pm

Hi minimum,

you say, On your mounts the difference is obvious...


okay, I have not got to install or see the new frame plates. I hope the difference is obvious that thru bolts will not help.

Thanks for clarification

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