new eZip motor

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latecurtis
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Feb 13, 2018 7:46 pm

Untitled.png
As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Smart batteries.


I know that these SONA batteries will not go 5 miles on a full charge.

I had an important doctors appointment today with a new heart doctor. I had to be there at 2:45 and was actually early.

About 1/3 the way there and 2/3 of the trip back there is about 3 or 4 blocks of very heavy traffic and busy intersections with people getting on an off the expressway and State st. which is the busy main drag between Schenectady and Albany. The capitol of NY state.

Those four blocks it makes sense just to walk the bike on the sidewalk when possible so I do not have to stop and start 20 times. Therefore out of 5.4 miles I only rode about 4.6 miles. Mabye 4.7 but definatlly not any more than that. Speed was top 16 mph today and normal around 12 mph.


The batteries did not make it home. There is a cuttoff for people like me who abuse batteries. I had to walk about 1/4 to 1/3 or approx. 0.3 miles home as there was no slowing down. The batteries just shut off like if I hit the kill switch.

The picture at the top shows the cuttoff voltage. Since I was cruizing about 13 to 15 mph at the time I imagine taking SAG into consideration it looks like the BMS shuts the packs down at 35 volts.

This is troubling as I have a follow up appointment in two weeks for important tests in one month I have to see the doctor again reguarding my Blood pressure medicine.

I really need two more packs like the SONAs so I can switch packs there for the way home. I cannot screw this up as it is my health at stake here. The 24" cargo bike will not even run the SONA packs and the old LiPos are only good for Wall-Mart and the grocery store at Hannaford plaza. It is about one mile away and 2 miles round trip. I was planning on using them exclusivelly for that trip and when they fail someday to get me home or can no longer go two miles I will have to retire them.

The single 8.0 - 6S LiPo pack has an unstable cell (see pic second up from bottom) I just hooked it up for a second tonight just to make sure my variable controller was still good after the batteries shut down. I figured it was the BMS but wanted to be sure.

I had that pack on BALANCE CHARGE for hours and even tried to balance it at 1 amp and that unstable cell just got worse. I really do not want to run it as I do not want to breathe any smoke if it decides to pop. Basically I do not want to order any more LiPo batteries. I definatlly do not want Lead ass batteries.

I would rather build my own pack from 18650 cells which could run on either bike. 54 volts may be too much for the variable controller so am looking for 48 volts or around 50 volts like fully charged 12S LiPo. I would actually like to build two packs which snap togeather.with a non solder kit. As far as a BMS I am willing to try that as I think they do sell a non solder BMS with the packs.

Since the SONA packs are made from 18650 cells I now know since both 4 mAh packs were in parallel today that 8 Ah is only good for 4 miles. You can all tell me different but google maps don't lie. mabye the ratings on the SONA packs are a lie. Anyway Since I really do not want a complicated smart battery which shuts the pack down at a set voltage I will calculate the size of the pack accordingly.

8 Ah = 4 miles

16 Ah = 8 miles

20 Ah = 10 miles.

I would like to build a 20 Ah pack from 18650 cells. Also I am very confused about the two Lipo chargers I have. I think they will charge 26650 cells if I run 6 in series however do not know if they charge six 18650 cells in series. It is why I have been interested in the 26650 cells so I don't have to buy an expensive 48 volt charger. Also the maximum capacity on a 18650 cell is usually only 2,000 mAh or 2 Ah where the larger 26650 cells are 4 Ah usually.

I would need 10 rows of six - 18650 cells in parallel series to get 20 Ah with 18650 cells. 5 rows of six would work with 26650 cells and will work on my Skycharger and mega charger and I could charge two packs at the same time for 12S. One pack on the Skycharger and the second on the 400 watt Mega- charger.

Also about a week or so ago I was at Srewerts and talked to an older guy who drives a tow truck for a tow company. He was checking out my Currie. He told me that the impound yard has at least 50 e bikes that police impounded in the last three years.
According to NY state anything with a motor is a $250 fine for an unregistered motor vehicle and automatticly impounded. The inmpound won't sell them and they go to the scrap metal yard.

I am definatlly not happy at all about this and feel like someone is lying to me. Either the guy or people here. There can only be one truth. Federal law states 750 watts and 20 mph. NY state law says any type of motor vehicle needs to be registered.

I really do not want to punch a cop in the face at my age and the 800 watt cargo bike has a $260 hub motor on the back. Also the Currie is my first e bike and I love it and might even shoot a pig with his own gun to keep it. I may sound crazy but actually when I went to state prison for firearms I took ART. Aggression replacment treatment. They taught me to avoid stressfull situtations which I actually try to do.

Therefore I will be building a new bike out of used parts to run exclusivelly. (see bottom pic) If it gets impounded I will just do the 10 or 15 days in jail as I refuse to pay a $250 fine. Then when I get out I will be moving out of NY state to a state which allows e bikes on the road.

The used 48 volt motor I have had for years which has been repaired on the inside with a terrible solder job. The old 60 tooth spoke kit and a $8 variable controller. The bike was $7 from an old guy that collects cans. Please let me know about the 18650 or 26650 cells and which will work with my LiPo chargers. Thanks.

LC out.
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Last edited by latecurtis on Feb 13, 2018 9:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Feb 13, 2018 8:47 pm

At 35.3 volts, you probably have about 40% of the charge left in that pack. The problem you are running into is probably the controller cuttoff voltage. Divide 3.53 by 13 (13 is the number of cells in series for a 48v LiPo pack and you get 2.71v. That's a well discharged 48v battery. So the controller is probably cutting out to save your batteries.

On my controller, the cutoff is normally 40v, but I configured it to its lowest possible value at 38v. So I wouldn't even be getting as far as you are without the boost converter.

You could use a boost converter like I'm using, but frankly I think it would be simpler, cheaper, and overall better for you to just get a 36 volt controller. You won't have as much top end speed, but the system will be simple, more efficient, and easier to get configured. I'm betting that your mileage will almost double.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 13, 2018 9:21 pm

Looks like the Sona cells are effectively "empty" @ 3.50V ... ?
BMS cuts off near 30V, which demonstrates a 5V pack sag, at moderate discharge, when cells near empty,

BMS should automatically "reset" when voltage recovers somewhat ... but might require a drain disconnect-reconnect.
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And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 13, 2018 9:59 pm

latecurtis wrote:
Feb 13, 2018 7:46 pm
I would like to build a 20 Ah pack from 18650 cells. Also I am very confused about the two Lipo chargers I have. I think they will charge 26650 cells if I run 6 in series however do not know if they charge six 18650 cells in series. It is why I have been interested in the 26650 cells so I don't have to buy an expensive 48 volt charger.
Size of cell has absolutely no relevance to charger! ?
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Feb 13, 2018 11:37 pm

You could use a boost converter like I'm using, but frankly I think it would be simpler, cheaper, and overall better for you to just get a 36 volt controller. You won't have as much top end speed, but the system will be simple, more efficient, and easier to get configured. I'm betting that your mileage will almost double.
I have a 36 volt brushless controller that Dan sent me which is 500 watts he said. However I do not know if the plugs will fit and do not want to cut them all off and solder bullets like I have done with ALL my brushed controllers.

It would be simpler to get two more 36 volt packs for the return trips back home which would effectively double my range with the Currie. The Currie motor is only rated at 1 HP and 750 watts which is also legal by federal standards I believe.

HOWEVER,

I clearly stated in my last post that I am NOT going to ride the Currie any more than I absolutly have to until I get an exact answer about what is and is NOT legal in NY state. The owner of a large bike shop sells e bikes with a hub motor and NO throttle. The motor kicks in when you pedal. He says e bikes are legal but only pedal assist. NO THROTTLE.

Then I was told two years ago at motor vehicles that any bike with a motor reguardless if electric or gas is NOT LEGAL. Any type of motor vehicle needs to be registered and they DO NOT register bicycles as they are NOT considered road worthy. The guy who works for the tow company and does police impounds tells me the same story that the lady at motor vehicles said. He also said that e bikes and electric scooters are legal to sell but not to operate.

I guess I have been lucky so far as in the four years I have been riding them I was only stopped downtown one time and it was downtown where NO BIKES are allowed on the sidewalk. The cop told me NOT to ride on the sidewalk and asked if that was a motor. I knew better than to lie so said yes and he said "They are not allowed here"

I walked the bike about four blocks until the cop stopped following me and then had lunch at a pizza place and walked about 5 more blocks until I was sure no cops were around then went home. It was the time I went up Congress st. hill and the alligater clips got so hot and smoked. they melted the top of the SLAs.

That is same 48 volt motor I am using for the new build. I am hoping for brakes and pedal gears. I need pedal chains on ALL my bikes but until the law changes or someone knows something I don't I need to run a fully functional but cheap e bike. Since the bike cost $7 and I already got my moneys worth from the motor and the controller is less than $10.

I think it is the logical thing to do so I dont make a feloney out of a fine / violation if a pig decides to impound my bike because he had a bad day. Usually they do not even take a second glance but there is always at least one p i s s e d off pig looking to jack someone up for anything because he is p i s s e d off at the world because his wife left or he caught his girlfriend cheating on him. Then there is a few cops who go strictly by the book.
Size of cell has absolutely no relevance to charger! ?
OK. But what about the correct voltage for charging. The 18650 cells and the 26650 cells are not the same voltage ?

Basically I need some straight answers. Are e bikes legal in NY state or not ? I know the law changes about every year so what I was told at DMV two years ago may not be the same today. Also there is hundreds mabye thousands of 18650 and 26650 cells but who knows which ones are a rip off or decent. Also I am NOT A BANK so would like to be able to build simple 6S packs I can run in series for 12S and be able to use the chargers I already own since I probably will NOT be getting more LiPo. I do not wish to spend $50 or more for a 10S or a 12S Lithium battery charger. Please let me know. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 14, 2018 12:26 am

Already explained to you how "legal-illegal" eBikes are in NY!

18650 and 26650 are the size of cells, size has nothing to do with charge voltage!
Chemistry is another matter, irregardless of size ...
Could be 3.6V or 4.2V or 4.35V etc.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Feb 14, 2018 1:21 am

Already explained to you how "legal-illegal" eBikes are in NY!

18650 and 26650 are the size of cells, size has nothing to do with charge voltage!
Chemistry is another matter, irregardless of size ...
Could be 3.6V or 4.2V or 4.35V etc.
Yes I know you did explain the legal , illegeal thing last year but was last year. 2017.

I google it and as of 2018 I still see the words contraversal. murkey and undefined. Also some people say federal law trumps state law and I see a lot about Albany trying to pass a law stating e bikes are exempt from being motor vehicles as long as they have pedals on them. I even called the department of transportation and was told I can operate an e bike on route 20.

HOWEVER. the DOT and DMV are NOT the same agencey. Also just like the federal law and state laws are different I have information that every City and county can make their own law reguarding bicycles. There is a st. here in Schenectady where no cars are allowed or bicycles. However the police are allowed to ride anywhere. Also if someone has a store front on Jay st. sometimes they are allowed to bring a delivery van there but normaly you do not see any vehicles there. Also downtown ANY bicycle is forbidden on sidewalks but 1 mile away kids ride BMX bikes on sidewalks all the time.

Therefore it is VERY confusing and I am sure you would be upset DA if a cop were to take away your Currie. We both love our Currie e bikes. Therefore even though I hate to line up a spoke sprocket so it spins straight I am going to. It takes hours to do and is not my favorite past time but running a bike with little value but still functional is my best bet at this time until I get a definate law for MY area where I live.

Where you live DA the county and city may have different laws and you may be able to wave to a nice police officer awhile riding your e bike but I cannot say the same for sure around here. What I do know is if they see me pedaling they do not bother me (so far) so even though the bike may not be worth much it will still be my main transportation so I will need it to be able to pedal.

My plans are a small cargo basket on the front somehow as a lot of bikes in the city have them and I can put my chain and lock plus small battery packs like the SONA packs and the controller in a front basket and still have room for a 12 pack of beer or can goods when I do grocery shopping. This will give better weight distribution since the motor #420 chain and heavy 60 tooth sprocket will be on the back. 1/2 of the front basket and a large backpack will still allow me to haul groceries home.

If anyone knows of some decent 18650 or 26650 cells or packs please post a link. I look almost daily on e bay for deals but not sure what is good or chinese junk :lol: Also can anyone answer wether or not my charger will work for 3.7 to 4.2 volt 18650 cells, I would like to know. It seems like the regular LiPo setting for 4.2 volts per cell should work but what type of cells is the LILO function on the charger for ? I know it says 3.3 volt LIFEPO4 - 6 cell will charge ? Thanks and let me know if you can.

I have to get to work on that rag tag spoke sprocket. :roll: :roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRDBdxI ... e=youtu.be

I doubt many people here on ES are using these spoke kits but my motto is to always try to help anyone I can as many here have helped me so if one person can learn something from this video then it is worth the time I took to shoot and post it. Note that this also works for truing a wheel. I learned it from youtube however they used a zip tie they cut off. I just tried a zip tie but find that this is the best way.
BMS should automatically "reset" when voltage recovers somewhat ... but might require a drain disconnect-reconnect.
The SONA packs are fully recharged and just hooked them up and working fine. Yes even though they are only good for 1/2 mile per AH I would probably buy two more as they are very lightweight and they can't be damaged much when they cut off at 35 volts.

Also I like it that I can carry the bike downstairs with the packs in the bike frame. With the SLAs that was impossible so it saves me a trip up and downstairs. If I get two more I can put them in a back pack and switch them for the return home. :mrgreen:

Thanks.

Lc out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 14, 2018 9:27 am

latecurtis wrote:
Feb 14, 2018 1:21 am
If I get two more I can put them in a back pack and switch them for the return home. :mrgreen:
Poor use of packs!
Increase range, performance and lifespan by using 4 packs in parallel!
Your propensity for high drain on low Ah batteries ensures poor performance-range-lifespan!!!

Add simple volt meter as fuel gauge ...
Better ... add Volt - Amp - AmpHour meter!!!
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Feb 14, 2018 1:01 pm

DrkAngel wrote:
Feb 14, 2018 9:27 am
latecurtis wrote:
Feb 14, 2018 1:21 am
If I get two more I can put them in a back pack and switch them for the return home. :mrgreen:
Poor use of packs!
Increase range, performance and lifespan by using 4 packs in parallel!
Your propensity for high drain on low Ah batteries ensures poor performance-range-lifespan!!!

Add simple volt meter as fuel gauge ...
Better ... add Volt - Amp - AmpHour meter!!!
And run the 36 volt packs on a 36 volt controller if you want to get more than 60% of their capacity. Even without fully discharging, you should be able to get at least five miles per pack if you run four in parallel.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Feb 14, 2018 3:55 pm

latecurtis wrote:
Feb 14, 2018 1:21 am
Already explained to you how "legal-illegal" eBikes are in NY!

18650 and 26650 are the size of cells, size has nothing to do with charge voltage!
Chemistry is another matter, irregardless of size ...
Could be 3.6V or 4.2V or 4.35V etc.
Yes I know you did explain the legal , illegeal thing last year but was last year. 2017.

I google it and as of 2018 I still see the words contraversal. murkey and undefined. Also some people say federal law trumps state law and I see a lot about Albany trying to pass a law stating e bikes are exempt from being motor vehicles as long as they have pedals on them. I even called the department of transportation and was told I can operate an e bike on route 20.

HOWEVER. the DOT and DMV are NOT the same agencey. Also just like the federal law and state laws are different I have information that every City and county can make their own law reguarding bicycles. There is a st. here in Schenectady where no cars are allowed or bicycles. However the police are allowed to ride anywhere. Also if someone has a store front on Jay st. sometimes they are allowed to bring a delivery van there but normaly you do not see any vehicles there. Also downtown ANY bicycle is forbidden on sidewalks but 1 mile away kids ride BMX bikes on sidewalks all the time.

Therefore it is VERY confusing and I am sure you would be upset DA if a cop were to take away your Currie. We both love our Currie e bikes. Therefore even though I hate to line up a spoke sprocket so it spins straight I am going to. It takes hours to do and is not my favorite past time but running a bike with little value but still functional is my best bet at this time until I get a definate law for MY area where I live.

Where you live DA the county and city may have different laws and you may be able to wave to a nice police officer awhile riding your e bike but I cannot say the same for sure around here. What I do know is if they see me pedaling they do not bother me (so far) so even though the bike may not be worth much it will still be my main transportation so I will need it to be able to pedal.

My plans are a small cargo basket on the front somehow as a lot of bikes in the city have them and I can put my chain and lock plus small battery packs like the SONA packs and the controller in a front basket and still have room for a 12 pack of beer or can goods when I do grocery shopping. This will give better weight distribution since the motor #420 chain and heavy 60 tooth sprocket will be on the back. 1/2 of the front basket and a large backpack will still allow me to haul groceries home.

If anyone knows of some decent 18650 or 26650 cells or packs please post a link. I look almost daily on e bay for deals but not sure what is good or chinese junk :lol: Also can anyone answer wether or not my charger will work for 3.7 to 4.2 volt 18650 cells, I would like to know. It seems like the regular LiPo setting for 4.2 volts per cell should work but what type of cells is the LILO function on the charger for ? I know it says 3.3 volt LIFEPO4 - 6 cell will charge ? Thanks and let me know if you can.

I have to get to work on that rag tag spoke sprocket. :roll: :roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRDBdxI ... e=youtu.be

I doubt many people here on ES are using these spoke kits but my motto is to always try to help anyone I can as many here have helped me so if one person can learn something from this video then it is worth the time I took to shoot and post it. Note that this also works for truing a wheel. I learned it from youtube however they used a zip tie they cut off. I just tried a zip tie but find that this is the best way.
BMS should automatically "reset" when voltage recovers somewhat ... but might require a drain disconnect-reconnect.
The SONA packs are fully recharged and just hooked them up and working fine. Yes even though they are only good for 1/2 mile per AH I would probably buy two more as they are very lightweight and they can't be damaged much when they cut off at 35 volts.

Also I like it that I can carry the bike downstairs with the packs in the bike frame. With the SLAs that was impossible so it saves me a trip up and downstairs. If I get two more I can put them in a back pack and switch them for the return home. :mrgreen:

Thanks.

Lc out.
Sorry buddy but the law is against you. As long as you ride a bike that is too small or odd it will stand out. You need to be able to pedal all the time, cops or no cops. Pedaling helps you get to where you want to go with less battery drain. YOU cannot ride on the sidewalk, period! Hope that the state gets their act together soon.

About your charger, you need to look at all the settings. I have chargers that I'm still learning. On the ones I have if you push the charge button quick and the chemisty in upper corner flashes and you push the button next to it and it changes them. LIPO / LiLO and Life. Push the start and it goes to amps and then cell count. YES it should charge them, the problem with LiFePo is that you need 12 cells to get 36v and 16 to get your 52v. More cells for the same voltage. Also most LiFePo cells are lower c rating and less AH. A good 18650 are now in the 3000 mah range with decent C rating. Probem with either is that YOU will kill them without a good BMS which needs to be soldered to. Yeah you can buy these cell holders and snap them together but are the less cost wise as a assembled pack? I doubt it as packs are getting cheaper all the time. If you do buy cells you would need to test them and that might take YOU a maybe a month or two.

Onto controllers. The one Sunder sent was a 36v IIRC. It runs on 48v also. You need to fix that one and ride it. Controllers are cheap. The ones I sent are for BRUSHLESS not brushed. I have seen cheap kits and low as 170 shipped. You need to forget the 40+ club oh I mean 40mph. Get a cheap rear kit and ride it. Trash the trash you have and be real about it. Building is a fun pass time but it costs money. With a good setup properly and pedaling you should see at least1 mile per AH if not more. As I have said before, I get arund 2 miles per AH. Only hill I ride up is the sled hill and it's very steep. So get a couple of those packs and parallel them and you should be getting at least 15 miles per charge.

WHY is your electric bill so high/ Are you paying for downstairs too? If it's leaky window drafts you should put the window film up, only costs a few dollars and saves lots of money.

Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Feb 15, 2018 1:58 pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. There may be no hope for LC. He is a madman. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have seen cheap kits and low as 170 shipped. You need to forget the 40+ club oh I mean 40mph. Get a cheap rear kit and ride it. Trash the trash you have and be real about it. Building is a fun pass time but it costs money. With a good setup properly and pedaling you should see at least1 mile per AH if not more. As I have said before, I get arund 2 miles per AH. Only hill I ride up is the sled hill and it's very steep. So get a couple of those packs and parallel them and you should be getting at least 15 miles per charge.
I believe you said that I was as stubborn as your dog several times. Actually probably I am more stubbern than your dog. I am still working on the next build which will not cost much. DA warned me about mounting a Unite motor to the underneath of a cheap bike rack. Just as he said and I thought I ran into complications. it was not as easy as it looked and even though I managed to mount it Of course the sprockets were NOT properley lined up.

I took the rack off and seperated the motor from the rack and am proceeding to use the flat steel bar I have to beef up the geometery of the cheap bike rack. The motor must be able to adjust back and forth for proper allignment. I figured out that part last night but I am NOT using any wood this time and having issues with drill bits drilling thru steel. I will need at least two mabye three more drill bits and another section of flat bar.

The plan is to have two short pieces of steel under the rack and on top of the rack. The motor bolts will come up thru all and the slots I cut will allow about 3/4 ' to play with so the sprockets line up and the four steel bars will keep the motor straight NOT cockeyed like it was. Then I will use four longer pieces two on each side which will bolt the rack directly to the bike frame so it is rigid and will NOT move either way.

When it is finished I do not see how the chain could possibly come off during operation. Mounting directly behind the seat to the bike frame like DA said was not even possible as there was no chain clearence. Also there would be no room for rear brakes. Mounting above the 60 tooth spoke sprocket allows for enough chain clearence to have functional rear brakes on ths instead of just front brakes.

Then there is the good part. I noticed that Unite is the company who makes these new brushless motors which are rated at 2,800 to 3,200 rpm at 48 volts. The 48V 1,000 watt motor I am currently installing has the same dual D bore as the new brushless version. It probably has the same mount hole pattern on the mounting plate then. :P

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1800W-48V-Brus ... Sw9gRaFKeA

The brushless motor puts out 1,800 watts so I will only need to simply remove the brushed motor and replace it with the brushless and install a different wheel as I think the bearings are on their way out and a smaller spoke sprocket for 36 or 37 mph gearing on a 20" kids bike. Yes I know your eyes are probably rolling, :roll: as I am smiling ear to ear :D with the thought of hauling a s s at close to 40 mph on a 20" kids bike. :twisted: Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Feb 15, 2018 2:37 pm

latecurtis wrote:
Feb 15, 2018 1:58 pm
I have seen cheap kits and low as 170 shipped. You need to forget the 40+ club oh I mean 40mph. Get a cheap rear kit and ride it. Trash the trash you have and be real about it. Building is a fun pass time but it costs money. With a good setup properly and pedaling you should see at least1 mile per AH if not more. As I have said before, I get arund 2 miles per AH. Only hill I ride up is the sled hill and it's very steep. So get a couple of those packs and parallel them and you should be getting at least 15 miles per charge.
I believe you said that I was as stubborn as your dog several times. Actually probably I am more stubbern than your dog. I am still working on the next build which will not cost much. DA warned me about mounting a Unite motor to the underneath of a cheap bike rack. Just as he said and I thought I ran into complications. it was not as easy as it looked and even though I managed to mount it Of course the sprockets were NOT properley lined up.

I took the rack off and seperated the motor from the rack and am proceeding to use the flat steel bar I have to beef up the geometery of the cheap bike rack. The motor must be able to adjust back and forth for proper allignment. I figured out that part last night but I am NOT using any wood this time and having issues with drill bits drilling thru steel. I will need at least two mabye three more drill bits and another section of flat bar.

The plan is to have two short pieces of steel under the rack and on top of the rack. The slots I cut will allow about 3/4 ' to play with so the sprockets line up and the four steel bars will keep the motor straight NOT cockeyed like it was. Then I will use four longer pieces two on each side which will bolt the rack directly to the bike frame so it is rigid and will NOT move either way.

When it is finished I do not see how the chain could possibly come off during operation. Mounting directly behind the seat to the bike frame like DA said was not even possible as there was no chain clearence. Also there would be no room for rear brakes. Mounting above the 60 tooth spoke sprocket allows for enough chain clearence to have functional rear brakes on ths instead of just front brakes.

Then there is the good part. I noticed that Unite is the company who makes these new brushless motors which are rated at 2,800 to 3,200 rpm at 48 volts. The 48V 1,000 watt motor I am currently installing has the same dual D bore as the new brushless version. It probably has the same mount hole pattern on the mounting plate then. :evil: :evil:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1800W-48V-Brus ... Sw9gRaFKeA

The brushless motor puts out 1,800 watts so I will only need to simply remove the brushed motor and replace it with the brushless and install a different wheel as I think the bearings are on their way out and a smaller spoke sprocket for 36 or 37 mph gearing on a 20" kids bike. Yes I know your eyes are probably rolling, :roll: as I am smiling ear to ear :D with the thought of hauling a s s at close to 40 mph on a 20" kids bike. :twisted: Thanks.

LC out.
Yes , I have said you are stubborn. but all in the purpose to try to help.
Here is the kit for the chain drive https://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-48V-1800W- ... 0507.m3226
Here the cheap DD rear kit https://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-500W-Elect ... 1438.l2649
I know I won't change you mind on the chain drive but I don't feel such a long chain is safe. You Currie had a short chain new and you changed the motor and it worked. that chain was not as long as you are working with now.
Do what you want, just hope you don't kill yourself. If you do I hope your Ol-lady can post the video :lol: :mrgreen:

Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Feb 15, 2018 8:52 pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. No pain no gain. 8)

I walked 4.4 miles round trip to the Home depot. I could have took the Currie or the Cargo bike however would have been a strain on the battery. either the old LiPos or the new SONA packs. Also I do not think people are supposed to walk that area where two expressways enter and there is a bridge overlooking the 890 expressway and there is very little room to walk let alone ride a bike even though I have done so many times.

The only other way to get there walking or by bike is over twice as long a trip to get to the same place. I am not sure if anyone has noticed but folks who do not own gas motor vehichles are totally discriminated against. Anywhere a vehicle can drive except for interstate thruways a pedestrian should be able to have a sidewalk but is not always the case. Also restaraunts who close their doors and have after hours drive thru should also have a window for bikes and people on foot. It is just not fair. Not everyone can own a gas vehicle and some people do not want to pollute their environment. It tottally infuriates me.

I also decided walking is better for my heart. Somehow when I went to the doctor I lost about 14 pounds. How, I do not know but remember weighing 256 pounds and now am at 244 pounds. I probably will not take my bike anywhere where I might get it taken away by police. That trip is a prime example where NOT to ride an e bike.

Also the heart doctor wants to put me on a different BP pill. I am hoping I can avoid it by losing more weight so my BP goes down naturally. He said I can go to the gym if I do not lift anything heavy. That will help me out a lot. I want to get down closer to 200 pounds or at least under 210 pounds.

I looked at the hub motor kit. It is Voltmart and they make a 48 volt 1,500 watt rear kit also. The chain drive is the 4500 rpm model. Unite makes that I think but also the 2800 to 3200 rpm model which I may be ordering this spring for the upgrade on the current build.

The Currie chain did come a little loose but I tightened it back up. I do not go that fast with the Currie or the 24" cargo bike. They both are reliable but am afraid the cops might take them away.

Anyways I got what I needed at the Home depot for less than $30 and will proceed to build a 30 mph e bike which can eventually be upgraded to 40 mph with the 1,800W 2800 to 3200 rpm brushless motor kit and a custom 54V pack.

As far as a hub motor kit I am not ordering anything less than 72V and 3,000 watts for the back of the Haro V3. Hopefully this summer or soon after I get the 1,800 watt kit. The current build will be my first 40 mph bike and the Haro will be 3 killowatts and 50 mph. Thanks for posting.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Feb 20, 2018 2:03 am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. I am getting there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-yYXo8 ... e=youtu.be


The handelbars are going to be a problem. I could not get them tight. I ran a bolt down thru the center but still loose and the thing which holds them and attached to the goose neck is also loose and will not tighten.


However an invention which someone came up with a few years back will solve the loose handelbar problem. I would hate to be going 30 mph or faster and have my handelbars come off. :roll: The link below should do the trick. I will be ordering the 1,800 watt brushless motor in March or April I think. Then will be looking to build a custom 54 volt pack for 40 mph. Thanks.

LC out.


https://www.popsci.com/fiberfix-repair-wrap
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Feb 20, 2018 10:54 am

Be careful, that won't hold. If it does not for long!!

I only see 1 chain. No pedaling again?
I sure hope you read/saw my PM.

Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Feb 20, 2018 7:16 pm

Be careful, that won't hold. If it does not for long!!

I only see 1 chain. No pedaling again?
I sure hope you read/saw my PM.

Dan
The deraiuler needed to be unhooked as it effected the dropouts so the wheel would not go all the way to the bottom of the dropout and there was a little space on the opposite side of the deraiuler.

I plan on a pedal chain but not sure if it will be possible to have a deraiuler. As far as the fiberglass tape we will see just how good it really is. It is probably the perfect way to test it. Thanks for posting.

LC out.

Was hoping Wall-Mart had the fiber fix tape but glad they did not. I need a heavy duty cargo basket in the front and a way to mount it. I found a better handelbar holder / goose neck thing. :D Doug gave me that last year at some point when I was at his house before he moved when he was downsizing. Of course it was not a perfect fit and needed to wrap electrical tape around it to make it work.

The flat steel bar will work as two pieces will go crossways on the handel-bars and a shorter piece will bolt to the top of the purple brake thing which has a hole in the center. Two holes one on either side about an inch and 1/4 from the center will work. The wide flat steel bar will just be enough and then the smaller flat bar will connect the handel-bars to the bottom brace. Then I will have stablized the handelbars and can bolt a cargo basket to it which will be good for about 30 pounds. :mrgreen: Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Feb 23, 2018 2:03 am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. The art of drilling.

When I started drilling thru flat steel bar at least a year ago mabye two I noticed that a drill bit would last for mabye 3 or 4 holes and it was shot. I was drilling too fast and not using enough oil.

Today I drill slower about half the speed and by moving the drill slowly in a circular motion clockwise and counter clockwise and applying a good amount of WD 40 about three times per hole not only is it taking a lot less time but a drill bit is good for about 8 to 10 holes easily before having to replace.

The last two holes thru the steel brackets , handelbars and basket were 3/8" so not to comprimise the handelbars and to make sure the brackets dont slide off causing a catastrophic steering failure. The handelbars and basket are completelly reinforced and ready for 20 to 30 pounds of cargo and my chain and lock.

This build is going to take awhile. It kind of reminds me of the dual motor build which took about 6 weeks I think. I seem to do better when not rushing things. It was not exactly what I had in mind for a winter project but will be worth it in the end. So far everything is used parts except for the hardware.

For now I will be using my 36 volt Chinese controller as I have new 36 volt SONA packs and the 44V LiPo is old and not capable of any long trips. I will be looking for two more 36 volt packs similar to the ones I have. I am not sure if I will be upgrading to a 48 volt controller or installing the 1,800 watt brushless motor to this little cargo hauler. I might simply leave it at 36 volts, 750 watts and 24 mph.

Either way I will need a pedal chain and front and rear brakes. That seems to be my pattern. I spend most of the month getting parts and building an e bike and at the end of the month I am broke and have no money to pay Doug to do the brakes and pedal gears. It looks like this project will not be finished until the first week of March then but so far it has been fun.

I really wish I knew more people who enjoy working on e bikes. Doug has moved to Albany and will be difficult to get him here. Since I need gears and pedal chains on about all my bikes I will need to give him about $50 and will need to get up in the morning so Doug can work on the bikes awhile his son is in school.

The Currie needs gears and pedal chain. The 24" cargo bike with the hub motor on the back needs the brake fixed on the front and the current build needs brakes front and rear and a pedal chain. I hope I can pull it off. Thanks.

LC out.

Note. If you click on the pictures they get bigger. It will expecially do justice to the bootom one.

PS. here is the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MisZIW ... e=youtu.be

Only thing left to do is solder bullets for the motor and power wires. I will need a fan back in the window blowing out. I did not hook it up to melt holes thru the plastic for the throttle and bullets from the controller and held my breath for the most part and high tailed it out of there but it stunk the area up a lot.

basically I am board as hell and like building e bikes. I enjoy DIY projects and am really looking forwards to building custom battery packs also. I know I suck at soldering but just like drilling I think I can overcome my limitations and perfect my skills. with a proper fan so all fumes go out the window and some more time I think I can solder a BMS.

I really am ordering two more 36 volt packs as I like the lighter weight and saftey facter vs LiPo. However I am still looking for custom DIY 6S packs using cells. Whatever cells will work for the chargers I have. I also like placing these packs in tupperware containers and can even use 100$ silicone around the holes where the bullet connecters come out for further water protection.

How many e bike builders would think of such waterproofing methods ? I hereby give anyone who reads my posts permission to share my ideas with any novice or new e bike beginner. My methods are an e bike on a budjet for those newcommers who do not have money for an e bike produced by a company which could cost anywhere from 500 to $1,000 easily.

I agree and tell a lot of people every year who see my bikes and ask me that a hub motor is the best thing. I am not dis agreeing with Dan , Sunder or anyone here. I just never had a gas dirt bike or a go cart growing up. Only pedal bikes so am in my second childhood basically. I am interested in and way to spin a wheel and haul ass :lol: :lol: Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Feb 23, 2018 8:32 am

ok . it is optical illusion.

I was wondering why the front basket looks so much bigger than the rear. Basically when I dismount a bike I like to swing my leg over the rear of the bike and with a small basket or no basket like the Currie it is easier.

There is only about an inch difference in with but the huge seat and the heigth cutt off and the length makes it look very small compared to the front basket. :lol:

This is my vesion of a hybrid e bike. With a backpack I can haul plenty of cargo with my front basket also. No need to haul cargo in the rear. Mabye a tool kit and a LED flashlight for roadside assistance. :D Thanks.

LC out.
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Last edited by latecurtis on Feb 23, 2018 9:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 23, 2018 9:08 am

Try:
w\new bits ...
Position drill by marking spot with center punch. (prevents "walking"-"traveling")
oil
Pre-drill holes with 1/8" drill bit. (2400-3600rpm)
(Optional - oil - intermediate drill 1/4" hole @ 2000rpm)
oil
Limit 3/8" bit speed to 1000rpm! ( Do not be " moving the drill slowly in a circular motion clockwise and counter clockwise ", keep perpendicular to surface!)
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There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Feb 23, 2018 9:16 am

I do not have punch but several times noticed that making a hole larger with a larger bit is much easier than drilling same size hole with one bit. A 3/8" bit is perfect for first hole then the 1/4 or 5/8 will need much less energey and wear and tear for finishing the job.
Limit 3/8" bit speed to 1000rpm! ( Do not be " moving the drill slowly in a circular motion clockwise and counter clockwise ", keep perpendicular to surface!)
Like with anything else I will do a video to figure out that. I look for the metal shavings and do whatever possible to see those shavings spitting up out of the hole and also feel the drill biting into the metal and making forward progress. I will video the next time I drill and we will see what works and what does not.

I know that by decreasing the drills speed and increasing the amount of oil used that drill time and bit wear both have decreased. I am sure though I have not mastered all the tricks to the trade and shure could do improvments so am not arguing with what you stated DA.

I will show you though my method with a video and if you show a better way thru a video then I will defintally try it. I am open minded on the subject. However I have four e bikes running and this will be five. I really need to learn how to build my own battery packs which I can charge with my 6S LiPo chargers. Thanks much for posting and am very glad to here from you my friend.

LC out.

PS.

If this thing works am thinking about mounting the camera about three feet above the bike with a downwards angle to appreciate the overall viewing dynamics. Not sure if spelled correct but will give it a shot. I really do not have much better things to do. My life basically is still sleeping and playing pirates Tides of fortune. other activities are limited in my life so building e bikes is some of my better moments. :lol:
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 23, 2018 10:11 am

latecurtis wrote:
Feb 23, 2018 9:16 am
I do not have punch but several times noticed that making a hole larger with a larger bit is much easier than drilling same size hole with one bit. A 3/8" bit is perfect for first hole then the 1/4 or 5/8 will need much less energey and wear and tear for finishing the job.
Drill bit sizing:
1/8" = 2/16"
3/16" = 3/16"
1/4" = 4/16"
5/16" = 5/16"
3/8" = 6/16"
7/16" = 7/16"
1/2" = 8/16"
9/16" = 9/16"
5/8" = 10/16"
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Feb 23, 2018 7:01 pm

Thank you DA. I am about to start soldering the motor and battery wires here.

I was listening to Trump on the news and am find it very hard to believe that he is serious. Even more embarassed to vote for someone who is that dumb. :oops: :oops: I know I proclaimed myself to be a genious but am definatlly not as I voted for him because I supported his tough immigration policy.

Here is my ideas on how to make schools safer. Compared to what Trump suggested my ideas are genious.

whoever thinks teachers are or could be qualified to carry firearms are complete morons. How to stop school shootings will require a security force trained. either x military , national guard or ten year vetrens of the police force who qualify by a annual eye exam and shooting test.

Also drones could be deployed to moniter the outside of the schools around any entrence doors and windows. Cameras can moniter the hallways and classrooms and most important metal detecters inside any enterence with a trained security guard but only highly trained snipers should encounter a hostile with a gun. We could deploy two or three depending on size of the school and patrolling hallways with armed guards would intimidate students. Cameras can moniter that and the whereabouts of the armed snipers should be secret and a computer room with someone monitering cameras inside and a second outside for the drones. Get real and high tech here people. Giving untrained or poorly trained teachers guns would definatlly raise the student causulitys. That is a no brainer.

also the opposite of a fire drill should take place and a lockdown should occur. In case of a shooter entering the building tear gas could be deployed thru a similar system or incorporated into a sprinkler system. There are many ways to stop this sort of thing besides putting firearms in the hands of untrained or limited trained teachers.The only thing teachers could do is deploy smoke bombs if there is a shooter in the hallway. That would definatlly be effective because if you cant see you can't aim at anyone. I was hoping Trump was kidding about giving teachers guns. It seems he is clueless on what to do. He should stick with building his wall and keeping terrorists out of our country and leave the schools saftey up to folks with a brain.

Thanks. I will post a video if the motor is working. Hopefully the wires did not come loose or disconnect where I soldered them.

2/24/18

I am hung over big time. I took the Currie downtown and got a 20 pack of budweiser. Got home about 4 AM. The Sona packs charged in the basement awhile we watched one of the newer Star Wars movies and Steven Kings IT. I was not really impressed with either but the bike performed flawlessly like last week end. The chain has not came loose since tightening it up a couple weeks ago I think it was. The Sona packs give me no trouble and can cruise 15 to 20 mph on the way home with almost no traffic.

I still have to solder those wires to get the new project up and running. Mabye later if I feel up to it. I doubt I will be drinking much tonight. :lol: Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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