New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
- Thread starter larsottar
- Start date
Without the camera. 
crazyebot said:
General consensus here in my hood is that installing the brass gear, which is easy enough to do, and using the right kind of PTFE based grease, not too much and not too little but just the right amount is the best way forward for the TS motors. As it meshes with the steel gear on the motor shaft where we have found that the blue gear can easily be compromised.
Also the stock cranks with their offset can be replaced with straight arm cranks for a much better Q factor also. Never having spent too much time on a recumbent like bike I can't imagine that having your feet closer together is a bad thing for them either, less strain on the hips. I used some stock Bafang ones as they also use a drive side crank that allows for a pedal to be installed correctly.
Not the clearest pic of the bb but I do see that you got one bolt into the black two tab behind the lock ring. That is good to keep the motor from "cocking" as mentioned earlier in the thread. I still see a problem though with regards to locking down the fore and aft, primarily fore movement of the motor which will want to rotate under load. That is why I suggested a hard rubber pad stuffed in there that would inhibit this from occurring.
Another suggestion along those lines is if you could somehow connect the unused hole in the washer tab to the non-moving part of the swing arm pivot. Some light gauge wire perhaps? That would also keep the motor from rotating.
Attachments
Just installed my TSDZ2 to replace my faulty Bafanf BBS01. I'm very impressed. However, I need extension cables for the handlebar control and speed sensor. Does anyone know where to get these ? Uk / Europe preferable but if not I'll buy from whoever has as in stock.
Hi AWD - I like the suggestion... 'will try and implement something.
It's strange: I haven't noticed any movement in the drive motor so far, have probably put in around 200km, give or take. Still, better safe than on fire by the side of the road, I always say.
Speaking of safety: Managed to find some ebay sellers who are shipping me some Sturmey-archer anti-rotation washers, which (fingers crossed) should fit the SRAM setup. Will take a month to get here, so planning on playing it safe (gear & torque-wise) until then. In case anyone is worried, I do have the SRAM anti-rotation washer on one side, but the other has a serrated washer only. The SRAM technical diagram I looked at indicated the part was interchangable with a lug based washer... I can't fault SRAM for not considering people fitting their drive with a torque-sensing electric motor. ; )
The S-Archer washers have lugs at both ends and (according to an expert) should do the job.
This morning's 20km commute barely seemed to nibble at the 48v 10a battery (less than an hour recharge time). Considering I'm doing 40-43km/ph (ish) speeds on flats... It's quietly blowing my mind : )
I'm torn on the cranks. I want to be careful about screwing up my hips, but I quite like having a bit of space there. Partially because it really helps me to avoid the occasional heel strike to the derailleur, but I have this gut feeling it's offsetting the extra weight at the front, kinda slightly helping out with turns(?) I'm not doing an awesome job articulating the sensation.
I have the shorter cranks that came with the bike, but I am enjoying the longer cranks... I think I'll keep an eye on it. Either way, it's nice to have options - thanks for the info about the Bafang cranks - my local ebike shop has them (convenient).
It's strange: I haven't noticed any movement in the drive motor so far, have probably put in around 200km, give or take. Still, better safe than on fire by the side of the road, I always say.
Speaking of safety: Managed to find some ebay sellers who are shipping me some Sturmey-archer anti-rotation washers, which (fingers crossed) should fit the SRAM setup. Will take a month to get here, so planning on playing it safe (gear & torque-wise) until then. In case anyone is worried, I do have the SRAM anti-rotation washer on one side, but the other has a serrated washer only. The SRAM technical diagram I looked at indicated the part was interchangable with a lug based washer... I can't fault SRAM for not considering people fitting their drive with a torque-sensing electric motor. ; )
The S-Archer washers have lugs at both ends and (according to an expert) should do the job.
This morning's 20km commute barely seemed to nibble at the 48v 10a battery (less than an hour recharge time). Considering I'm doing 40-43km/ph (ish) speeds on flats... It's quietly blowing my mind : )
I'm torn on the cranks. I want to be careful about screwing up my hips, but I quite like having a bit of space there. Partially because it really helps me to avoid the occasional heel strike to the derailleur, but I have this gut feeling it's offsetting the extra weight at the front, kinda slightly helping out with turns(?) I'm not doing an awesome job articulating the sensation.
I have the shorter cranks that came with the bike, but I am enjoying the longer cranks... I think I'll keep an eye on it. Either way, it's nice to have options - thanks for the info about the Bafang cranks - my local ebike shop has them (convenient).
Replaced by BBS01 last night with a 36v TSDZ2. What a difference. It feels like I'm riding a bike now, not a moped. I did 5 miles today as a test run. My battery didn't deplete any. On the Bfang I would have used 25%. I'm going camping this weekend with my trailer in tow. That will be the real test. The BBS01 handled a loaded trailer fine. I'm expecting the TSDZ2 to be the same if not better. Can't wait
I'm ready to order my TSDZ2 now, but where should buy it from?? Is recycles ebike still around?
I'm going to be pulling my son up some steep hills around here. Should I get the 36v or 48v? I'm thinking the 36v would be less stress on the motor, less wattage. I don't want the motor to do all the work, I want to do as much work as I can.
I'm going to be pulling my son up some steep hills around here. Should I get the 36v or 48v? I'm thinking the 36v would be less stress on the motor, less wattage. I don't want the motor to do all the work, I want to do as much work as I can.
I am definitely enjoying my TSDZ2 (48V 500W) but am starting to think about ways to improve the chainline. I have a nine speed 11-34T cassette and I can maintain close to 40kph on the flat on my 20km commute to work (I have learned to mainly use Speed to avoid the overheating that comes with using Turbo for longer than a few minutes at a time). The trouble comes when I am coming home and have to make it up my hill, which starts off about 12% grade and averages about 10% over about 3km. I usually have to rely on the lowest 3 gears to make it up the hill, and the chainline is horrible on those. It has already broken one Shimano chain, so I have put on a KMC X9E which will hopefully last a bit better.
I am weighing up between getting an IGH, like an Alfine 8, or upgrading to a 11-40T cassette. I've been looking at some of the gear calculators and was wondering if I would sacrifice some speed with the IGH. Another thing I was weighing up is trying to put on a larger dished chainring, like a Lekkie Bling Ring. There are lots of BCD130 spiders on Aliexpress, so that part shouldnt be a problem, but I have seen comments that there are some issues with the ring clearing the motor housing with the 42T version. Does anyone have an experience with the 46T or 52T Bafang/Lekkie chainrings replacing the stock 42T (rather than running in parallel) and whether they have a larger diameter which deals to the clearance issues?
I know that increasing the chainring or changing the cassette will require me to add some links to my chain, so I was thinking of both upgrades at the same time (as long as they make sense) so I only have to do it once.
I am weighing up between getting an IGH, like an Alfine 8, or upgrading to a 11-40T cassette. I've been looking at some of the gear calculators and was wondering if I would sacrifice some speed with the IGH. Another thing I was weighing up is trying to put on a larger dished chainring, like a Lekkie Bling Ring. There are lots of BCD130 spiders on Aliexpress, so that part shouldnt be a problem, but I have seen comments that there are some issues with the ring clearing the motor housing with the 42T version. Does anyone have an experience with the 46T or 52T Bafang/Lekkie chainrings replacing the stock 42T (rather than running in parallel) and whether they have a larger diameter which deals to the clearance issues?
I know that increasing the chainring or changing the cassette will require me to add some links to my chain, so I was thinking of both upgrades at the same time (as long as they make sense) so I only have to do it once.
I found that Electrify Bike are selling an offset 42T chainring, like a TSDZ2 version of a Lekkie Bling Ring. Does anyone have any experience with it?
https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p65/42_Tooth_Narrow%2FWide_CNC_7075_T6_Chainring_%2810mm_offset%29_for_TSDZ2.html
https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p65/42_Tooth_Narrow%2FWide_CNC_7075_T6_Chainring_%2810mm_offset%29_for_TSDZ2.html
Drum
100 W
Hi Wgtnpete,
Looks like that chainring is high quality, but have no experience with it myself. Narrow-wide chainrings do actually seem to keep the chain on the chainring well, and look after the chain better also. Since I swapped to a narrow-wide on my mountainbike I have not had the chain drop off the chainring once.. with the "standard" chainring it happened occasionally.
I think this is the link to the manufacturer: http://www.future-bike.it/accessori/corona-scampanata-active-torque/
Dave
Looks like that chainring is high quality, but have no experience with it myself. Narrow-wide chainrings do actually seem to keep the chain on the chainring well, and look after the chain better also. Since I swapped to a narrow-wide on my mountainbike I have not had the chain drop off the chainring once.. with the "standard" chainring it happened occasionally.
I think this is the link to the manufacturer: http://www.future-bike.it/accessori/corona-scampanata-active-torque/
Dave
Wow, nice find. I plan on getting the 30t version https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p66/30T_Narrow%2FWide_Chainring_for_TSDZ2.html . Will this work with the SRAM NX 11 speed groupset(11-42)?? Does the chainline struggle at the outer cogs?? The sram NX 11 speed is supposed to fit on a regular 9 speed hub. I really need the largest cog, i'd rather go slow and spin really fast then get off the seat. I also need the torque to go up the steep hills around my neighborhood. The 11t rear with 30t front should still get me to 20mph, which should be fine for me because I'll be riding with a young child. I just wish they made this run in perhaps a 34T.
Hi all,
Just survived reading the entire thread over the last few days. Great amount of info so thank you to all that have shared.
Can anyone tell me if a 250W TSDZ2 can be paired with the XH18 display and thumb throttle? I don't need the brakes / brake detector. I saw some comments regarding 6/8 wire links to the controller in the motor and that the motor controller needs to support, but not sure about the XH18 and where the throttle plugs (maybe into a splitter in the loom going to motor?)
Looking to swap out my Bafang BBS01B 250W on my Gazelle Cabby, really want proper torque control, but need a throttle for occasional soft launches etc eg balancing with two children leaning to one side at low speeds and one foot off pedal in case.
Steve
Just survived reading the entire thread over the last few days. Great amount of info so thank you to all that have shared.
Can anyone tell me if a 250W TSDZ2 can be paired with the XH18 display and thumb throttle? I don't need the brakes / brake detector. I saw some comments regarding 6/8 wire links to the controller in the motor and that the motor controller needs to support, but not sure about the XH18 and where the throttle plugs (maybe into a splitter in the loom going to motor?)
Looking to swap out my Bafang BBS01B 250W on my Gazelle Cabby, really want proper torque control, but need a throttle for occasional soft launches etc eg balancing with two children leaning to one side at low speeds and one foot off pedal in case.
Steve
Whatever, it works just right for my needs. Provides all the power I need reliably and economically.
The best part is how easy to service it is as even the big boys motors have issues......Let's see, it also allows me to share batteries with my hub road bike but that has more to do with open source componentry in general. Not everyone however wants to have to "work" on their bike or really care to understand how it all works. That's cool, I don't want to be a slave to some service dept..
The best part is how easy to service it is as even the big boys motors have issues......Let's see, it also allows me to share batteries with my hub road bike but that has more to do with open source componentry in general. Not everyone however wants to have to "work" on their bike or really care to understand how it all works. That's cool, I don't want to be a slave to some service dept..
gggplaya said:
A few observations:
- He loves the "torque sensing" and the throttle that other mid-drives don't have but overall gives it a "meh". Go figure.
- He expects more power out of a 350-watt motor because it has a peak power of 1000 watts. He even says multiple times that he expects more out of a 750-1000 watt motor. IT'S A 350 WATT MOTOR!!
- It is not reasonable expect more out of a 350 watt motor. All motors have high peaks, they are just not usually put in the specs. Given Court's huge misunderstanding on this issue it would have been much better if Jason had left the peak power out of the specification entirely.
- He bogs the bike down going slow up a hill in a high gear. Of course, it will bog down!
- This motor had a throttle. On a 350 watt motor the throttle is a little light. Too bad he didn't have a 750 watt TSDZ2 to try with the throttle. Would have made his comparison with the BBS02 more relevant.
- He expects more out of 80 Nm of torque comparing it to lower torque hub motors. 80 Nm is more in the range of Bosch/Yamaha 350-watt mid-drives which he says this keeps up with.[/list]
To be fair to Court, he went into it with unrealistic expectations due to a misunderstanding on the power specification. I think he would have given it a much better review if not for his HUGE misunderstanding or if he could have tested a 500 or 750-watt version.
tomjasz
1 GW
AWD said:
Don't hold your breath. We'll more informed after they've been in the market longer. Ad nauseum...
Rydon said:
Court is fast becoming an Industry Shill IMNSHO. Gotta hand it to the guy that he has built up the rep he has but he mainly focuses on name brand stuff and I am not sure he has the best grasp of the actual tech involved.
My 52v TS has the throttle but it is pretty much worthless compared to the PAS for trail riding. I like it for getting going and the odd burp when turning the cranks is going to be not a good idea and I still want forward momentum maintained.
Chalo
100 TW
It's not germane to the TSDZ2 specifically, but in every video I have seen from ElectricBikeReview.com, the dude comes across as an ignorant dingdong who's absorbed just enough ad copy and marketing hype to believe he knows what he's talking about. He clearly has no engineering chops whatsoever. So I can't get worked up in the least about his opinion of anything.
He does consumer reviews of electric bike, from the perspective of an end user which is not an engineer. He reviews it based on the user experience, which is how it should be for 90%+ of people who watch his videos. He also does in a way bring more people in biking with electric bikes, which keeps people healthier and some greener. The others will do their own research, they don't need to watch his videos. I prefer to do much of my own research and even read the tech manual and go over the exploded parts diagrams. But I still enjoy watching his videos to see what else is out there.
When I first started selling electronics (on comission) in college while studying engineering, I learned very quickly to not be too technical and to only give them the relevant information to their user experience. If I tried to get too technical, it was over their heads and they were actually less likely to buy the product because they felt they needed to do more research or just confused altogether. Spending $3k+ on a TV and not being sure of what you want will cause people to sleep on it.
I also don't think he's a factory shill, as you can see he basically bashed a product that was provided for him to demo, the TSDZ2. You can't get any less paid off than that.
When I first started selling electronics (on comission) in college while studying engineering, I learned very quickly to not be too technical and to only give them the relevant information to their user experience. If I tried to get too technical, it was over their heads and they were actually less likely to buy the product because they felt they needed to do more research or just confused altogether. Spending $3k+ on a TV and not being sure of what you want will cause people to sleep on it.
I also don't think he's a factory shill, as you can see he basically bashed a product that was provided for him to demo, the TSDZ2. You can't get any less paid off than that.
eyebyesickle
10 kW
Slamming the TSDZ2, oh no no no, this is war! hahahah
Seriously though, give him a chance to ride the 52v18a - If that doesn't fix him, word on the street is a free bike that he is reviewing and $5,000 WILL!!!
OOOOH!
What's been going on everyone? This thread keeps growing - yikes.
Couple updates from me:
- Finally got TS to acknowledge the fat version... I cannot wait to get my hands on them! (In the past, it was hard to tell what futurebike was manufacturing and what they were buying from TS, and communication can be troubled. I have to say though, futurebike is doing it with the TSDZ2 motor guards, chain rings, and other accessories. They have been on it from the beginning! Just not quite economic enough for me over here...)
- I'm loving the new BLACK 110 BCD Spiders... they actually have a real seal (unlike the ridiculous gasket that pairs with the older silver type), that matches the other side of the motor. Better weatherproofing protection for sure. They also look much nicer with the motor in my opinion. I had to get a bunch to replace the old versions I had around!
- Some of the new speed sensors with the Y split for the lights, are far more sensitive. If the spoke magnet is too close, it will actually scramble, and read very high. This cause a great deal of confusion for many, including me
Also, I like to cover the new sensors with a chainstay cover, it still reads fine through it, and helps hide it!
- I like to pair FLAT LED 6v bulbs with the light wires... I just pull the current bulb out of my current little light, and replace it with a flat LED that pairs with the TSDZ2 Y splitter light cables!
- Grease up that metal gear good - Lucas Red N Tacky 2, or Mobile 28.... you can quiet that metal gear down alot.... Chalo!!! - might tell you what's better - I'm all ears myself.
- Made my folding frame TSDZ2 bike I was talking about pages and pages ago. Solid Wheels, and SOLID Tires (well, inserts)... I am beyond happy with this thing - its my around towner =) I took off the VLDC5 model, and settled on the XH-18 for this one. I'll get some more current pics, I have a shifter twist grip that matches the XH-18, and some awesome quick release MKS pedals. Way better than the tacky folding pedals I still had in the pics below. You can see the new 110BCD on it though, I am loving the look!
Seriously though, give him a chance to ride the 52v18a - If that doesn't fix him, word on the street is a free bike that he is reviewing and $5,000 WILL!!!
OOOOH!
What's been going on everyone? This thread keeps growing - yikes.
Couple updates from me:
- Finally got TS to acknowledge the fat version... I cannot wait to get my hands on them! (In the past, it was hard to tell what futurebike was manufacturing and what they were buying from TS, and communication can be troubled. I have to say though, futurebike is doing it with the TSDZ2 motor guards, chain rings, and other accessories. They have been on it from the beginning! Just not quite economic enough for me over here...)
- I'm loving the new BLACK 110 BCD Spiders... they actually have a real seal (unlike the ridiculous gasket that pairs with the older silver type), that matches the other side of the motor. Better weatherproofing protection for sure. They also look much nicer with the motor in my opinion. I had to get a bunch to replace the old versions I had around!
- Some of the new speed sensors with the Y split for the lights, are far more sensitive. If the spoke magnet is too close, it will actually scramble, and read very high. This cause a great deal of confusion for many, including me
Also, I like to cover the new sensors with a chainstay cover, it still reads fine through it, and helps hide it!- I like to pair FLAT LED 6v bulbs with the light wires... I just pull the current bulb out of my current little light, and replace it with a flat LED that pairs with the TSDZ2 Y splitter light cables!
- Grease up that metal gear good - Lucas Red N Tacky 2, or Mobile 28.... you can quiet that metal gear down alot.... Chalo!!! - might tell you what's better - I'm all ears myself.
- Made my folding frame TSDZ2 bike I was talking about pages and pages ago. Solid Wheels, and SOLID Tires (well, inserts)... I am beyond happy with this thing - its my around towner =) I took off the VLDC5 model, and settled on the XH-18 for this one. I'll get some more current pics, I have a shifter twist grip that matches the XH-18, and some awesome quick release MKS pedals. Way better than the tacky folding pedals I still had in the pics below. You can see the new 110BCD on it though, I am loving the look!
gggplaya said:
I agree that his shtick is great for holding peoples interest by not getting overly technical but my definition of a bike industry shill is someone that panders to products that advertise with them and or pay their way to events promoting their line and then writing glowing reports. I doubt that Tong Shen sent him that motor direct as they probably don't even know he is alive.
That said I tore down my motor yesterday in preparation for moving it to another bike. I have 700 miles on it now with no issues after switching to the brass gear and wanted to see how things were looking. Other than the time Iafter having to ride through water that was up and over the battery and taking off the motor side cover to see what water was in there, not much but some for sure, I hadn't looked inside.
This time, although the bike has been living in a pretty wet environment including hanging on the back of my car in rain and snow going down the road, there was no obvious moisture anywhere and still enough grease to keep things flowing. I am going to put it back together regreased with the Lucas grease mentioned above here today. I have not been babying the system at all, in fact doing my best to expose it's flaw potential. Seems like a stock motor with a few mods right off have made for a very reliable system that meets my needs to a T.
