FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

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xcnick   1 W

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by xcnick » Feb 26 2018 1:58pm

Light weight and accepting of short chain stay makes me dream of a full suspension 24 inch bike UNDER 40 pounds. It would have to have the smallest battery possible so make it easy to swap. Accept 3 inch wide tires and again, under 40 lbs.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Feb 28 2018 9:55pm

Hi Everyone here!
Most of Chinese factories come back from Spring Festival this week.
To me, I am keeping working during holiday, have a good holiday and also glad no delays on working for oversea customers, you do not have Chinese Spring Festival.
Here is a good news to US friends. there is some good promotion policy for customers place order and delivery to US by sea on Alibaba.
QQ图片20180228153105.png
I hope this is just a helpful news not an adds and it is allowed to post this info here.

By the way, In US, most of ebikes come from China. As I known, the M2S bikes arr imported from a factory whom we known.
Now few suppliers in China focus at high end quality ebike with the Bafang mid motor system like us, and keep improving always.
As many customers asked earlier, we will have some 52V battery to test in coming week. if there is any news, will keep you all update.

A little investigation, as we develop a fat bike version base on AM1000 construction. how many people will interested to get a fat version full suspension bike with same motor system and good quality components? Who are planning for this model if there is good demands on it.
FAT_DSC6611.jpg

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Bavaria_first! » Mar 01 2018 1:56pm

FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 22 2018 11:38pm
Interesting info.
Can you tell what's the advantage with a 29" front wheel + 27.5+ rear wheel? and what's the tire size to match for front and rear wheel?
And what travel to fit for front 29" and rear 27.5+ ?
Shilah wrote:
Jan 19 2018 9:41am
I want the possibility of build or change the battery as I like. Only with bafang I can do it.
Fantic is an example of a modern frame. It has a 29 front wheel and a 27,5 + rear wheel.
Hi all,
https://www.emtb-news.de/news/canyon-spectral-on-test/

they die IT now with different wheelsizes.

The German Guy who created the Horst Link system spoke last years in a Interview that this style will be next steps in future e-mtb because, the motor will be powerfuller.

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tumich   100 W

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tumich » Mar 01 2018 6:01pm

Bavaria_first! wrote:
Mar 01 2018 1:56pm
FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 22 2018 11:38pm
Interesting info.
Can you tell what's the advantage with a 29" front wheel + 27.5+ rear wheel? and what's the tire size to match for front and rear wheel?
And what travel to fit for front 29" and rear 27.5+ ?
Shilah wrote:
Jan 19 2018 9:41am
I want the possibility of build or change the battery as I like. Only with bafang I can do it.
Fantic is an example of a modern frame. It has a 29 front wheel and a 27,5 + rear wheel.
Hi all,
https://www.emtb-news.de/news/canyon-spectral-on-test/

they die IT now with different wheelsizes.

The German Guy who created the Horst Link system spoke last years in a Interview that this style will be next steps in future e-mtb because, the motor will be powerfuller.
Come on. Shimano doesn't have torque sensor. That's why is the cheapest middrive used on good knowing German ebikes brands. Even Bafang has optional sensor but Shimano not.. Maybe this year on Eurobike we will see improved version.
My ebikes:
1. Sur ron

Cheap, new, oryginal li-ion cells 18650 up to 3500mAh --> viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61608

Animalector   10 kW

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Animalector » Mar 01 2018 6:04pm

Yes they do. I've ridden the e8000 and it is torque sensing for sure.. same as the e6000

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by icehunter » Mar 04 2018 7:54am

"A little investigation, as we develop a fat bike version base on AM1000 construction. how many people will interested to get a fat version full suspension bike with same motor system and good quality components? Who are planning for this model if there is good demands on it."

I am saving up for your full suspension fat bike version :)
This motor is probably perfect for that kind of bike

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 04 2018 1:23pm

I have seen some specs on this motor, the G521 500W 48V. I have not seen the max amps posted anywhere, nor can I find them. Seeing the torque numbers I would think a minimum of 20a? Don't try and put too much battery in there and ruin the stealth and make it really heavy. People can carry extra battery if they want more range. I think a 14S4P or 13S4P in the down tube would be decent enough. Maybe 2 modules of 14S2P 30Q cells paralleled. A person could remove one if they didn't want the extra weight that day. May be they could be made to clip together end to end to form one long battery. That should not be difficult.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 04 2018 3:17pm

FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 11 2018 2:28am
As we known, Bafang no battery matching with their tube. I think we can only develop the battery system by ourselves if want to make the bike pretty look. Bafang told us that we can get the mount bracket before our CNY.
It is possible for us to make the frame after we get the bracket.
Animalector wrote:
Jan 10 2018 4:28pm
it looks dubious to me. Battery in Pic, but further down the page it has a Hailong Case pictured. Plus I hate it when they get the Part number / specs wrong.

I'll wait until I hear from Bafang or a reputable frame builder that they are available. It's no good to me without a frame anyway

If bafang has no plans to make that frame, maybe they would give you the specs of the frame and battery container. Then you could modify for your own geometry.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 04 2018 3:21pm

I would also like to see the motor painted the same color as the bike. If the battery is not completely within the downtube, I would like any exposed parts to be the same color of the bike. Bike as stealthy as possible.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by leelorr » Mar 04 2018 3:22pm

tinasdude wrote:
Mar 04 2018 3:21pm
I would also like to see the motor painted the same color as the bike. If the battery is not completely within the downtube, I would like any exposed parts to be the same color of the bike. Bike as stealthy as possible.
+1

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 04 2018 3:26pm

As Shilah said open source battery. Many of us already have batteries and bafang motors. We would like to continue using them with a new bike as back up.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 06 2018 1:33pm

hoojsn wrote:
Jan 10 2018 1:04pm
My request
1. Original Bafang Frame where battery can be hide in the tube.
2.Higher AH battery 17ah to 21ah or better (If 52V with 21700 cells)
3. Battery Brand: Sanyo or Pansonic
4. Tyre 27.5", so that we can exchange bicycle rim with our current ebike.
5, Available in 2 model Hardtail and Dual Suspension
6. Normal Derailleur system, as IGH will add additional weight to bike and defeat the purpose of weight reduction.
7. Quad Piston brake whether from Magura or Tektro will be fine.
8. Disc Brake size 203mm F/R
I think you have checked most of my boxes. Totally agree a hardtail and a full suspension.. Agree with Robocam about the 14S4P 30Q battery. A 14S2P water bottle appearing battery could be offered as an option to increase range. It could be made to fit the standard water bottle cage width. Standard brakes dual piston, with a 4 piston option. The battery and brake changes would help keep costs down and still have those options for people who want more. The hardtail is definitely a stealthier looking bike, and would appeal to a lot of people who won't be doing serious off road. And people will love the FS too. Agree with 27.5 as well. With a 3.0 or 2.8 it is almost a 29er in diameter. The Video shown of the Bafang bike showed a horrid chainline. It was straight , but I think it was in about gear 6 or 7. Rear dropout width in relation to BB width helps with chainline. The bike they show needed a wider rear dropout to provide a better chainline. From the appearance of the motor on that bike and offset chainring is not an option to improve the chainline. Bafang mentioned a double chainring. That would be fabulous. But that further emphasizes the need for an improved chainline. Drivetrain components could be optional too. One decent 8 speed cassette and derailleur option and 1 high end option. You can get 8 speed rebuildable cassettes. 8 speeds is enough for an electric, imo. That will help keep cost down too. Stronger chain available. https://wheeling.pro/2018-bafang-m600-m ... e976b.html

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by leelorr » Mar 06 2018 3:08pm

>> "Bafang mentioned a double chainring. That would be fabulous."

I agree. I spent a lot of time trying to get my gearing set up with my Bafang BBS02 so that I could ride single track trails at low speed AND streets and bike paths (higher speed) with only one front chain ring. If a double chain ring is not possible, then a wide range rear gear cluster with an 11 tooth and a "granny gear" to allow a wider speed range would work.

I also would like a battery that fits smoothly and "stealthily" into the frame but with the option to buy a second, maybe smaller battery to attach on longer rides. This would give the option of a very light weight battery or a heavier battery for longer rides, or possibly both batteries mounted at once.

Thanks,
Lorrin

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 06 2018 7:24pm

8 speed cassettes are available in steel 11-40 i believe. Having a 40 granny would allow a larger crank gear so i wouldn't even use the 11. So we definitely need a long cage derailleur as well.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Halcon » Mar 07 2018 1:27pm

Heavy EMTB should have 203mm brake rotors front and rear with 4 piston Magura or similar brakes front and rear. Use the EMTB specific system from SRAM the EX1 huge range 8 gears. Also the Bafang M600 system should have shift detection if it does not already. Use a normal seat post width for dropper posts 30.9mm or 31.6mm. +1 on the integrated battery in the down tube. Use E-50 rated tires from Schwalbe or Maxxis. Using a frame that will support 27.5+ would allow for 29in tires 29x2.3
Great examples are the 2018 models Bulls E-Stream Evo AM 27.5+, Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 SL 500 27.5, and the Giant Full-E+ 0 SX Pro

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by hoojsn » Mar 07 2018 3:40pm

Indeed SRAM EX1 8 speed system (11-48T) is pretty good and climb very steep hill. However price are expensive. Currently my Hardtail came with Top notch components such as Magura MT5E with 203mm Rotor Disc, SRAM EX1 System, Bafang Ultra 1000 watts with Derailleur Gear Sensors etc.. But the motor give itself away in a glance. That is the reason I prefer M600, battery hidden, frame and motor matte black will be stealth on the road. In regardless how good the EX1, it will be prone to wear and tear. If cheaper system we will not break our bank to replace them. As for Chain EX1 and Taya DHT (Diamond Hard Technology) is pretty impressive for ebike. Currently I has just change my EX1 chain to Taya DHT Deca-101 (Ebike) https://tayachain.com/index.php/en/best ... n/DECA-101
Replace the chain with Taya and gears still shift smoothly. I will try it out on weekend riding. (Take note SRAM 8 speed chain is equal to 10 speed chain)

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Halcon » Mar 08 2018 7:28pm

Frey is leading the development of the M500 and M600 and there are too few companies willing to design a bike only for the US and Canadian Markets, both countries allowing 500w or more for e-bikes.
The motor and system are supposed to be released in April but the batteries are not available until June.
It would be great to be able to buy the frame only and build your individual ideal bike while we wait for the batteries to be developed.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Animalector » Mar 08 2018 7:32pm

so does that mean you want a internal battery or get them to build a frame with a flat down tube that will accept any aftermarket battery?

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 08 2018 7:42pm

A frame built for the bafang down tube batterys. Maybe a structural cover could be in place until batteries become avaiable. Water bottles bosses so people can use down tube batteries in the meantime.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Mar 10 2018 4:02am

Hi,

I try to answer your requests now.
We are planning to develop some more models depend on the market demands and potential quantity, such as you told 29" hard tail model. and some model for commuter. In fact,some people buy our bike also for commuting , use not too wide tire, 2.2-24", and the rear shock is lockable.
Also we can supply this bike with front and rear lights connect to the main battery.
QQ图片20180310171540.jpg
Now all this motor come with steel gear inside.

About chain, we are using KMC strengthen special for ebike using, I think the quality is good and durable, but not sure how long distance need to be changed, anyway, we are using the best available chain on our bikes.

About IGH, we will follow it and maybe try some on our bike in the near future, after confirm some suitable model. as I known, it should be customized to match the frame. At present, belt is impossible to use, as bafang supply the specific strengthen crank wheel not fit for belt. only for chain.

And also the display is matching come with the motor set, we can't choose by ourselves.

About color, most of customer will prefer black, I think black is will be the best choice if don't want to have much attention.

Any more question please feel free ask. you can write email to me at: sales@frey.bike
I will answer and support you quickly. Here not very often come, maybe every week 1-2 times. but if there is any news I will share with you here and answer question and requests from all you.

18650 wrote:
Mar 05 2018 4:45pm
Hello AM1000 fans and Frey Ebikes,

I am more and more interested in e-bikes, specifically an allround and commuter bike. I did some research, and even test rode some bikes, but haven't made a decision yet. When I discovered the AM1000 I was impressed by it's specs... not many bikes around have as much power and range/capacity! And I am happy for having found this forum... so much experience, and even the manufacturer is READING and LISTENING.

I still have a some doubts and questions:

1. Range: for those who already received their bikes: I know, it is (was) winter, but... did anybody have the chance to ride his bike and can confirm battery capacity and/or range?

2. Commuter version:
@FreyBikes, will there be a commuter option? (hardtail frame, 29", rack, lights and fenders)? Apparently I am not alone with this usecase.
@EndlessSphere community... what do you think, would the AM1000 do for commuting? What changes would you suggest?
  • tyres - less offroad-style? any recommendation?
  • rack - I like the "fat bike" rack offered by m2s... @FreyBikes, could anything similar be available for the AM1000 frame?
  • light - is there a lights option (see oleaiz' bike, P5)? Or otherwise, is there a cabling option for front and rear lights, connected to the battery (not via USB)?
3. Other technical questions:
  • motor/gear: does the G510 always come with steel gears, is this a standard Frey improvement, or was this an optional feature?
  • chain/sprockets wear: I heard some concerns about chain and sprockets wear. Somebody said that probably the chain + sprockets would need to be changed approx. every 1000 km: what is your experience with so much power on a mid drive? Maybe also from your past BBS02/HD experience? [edit: I read some more on this, even here on Endless Sphere, I now understand the IGH discussion.Would a carbon belt make sense in combination with an IGH? @Frey Bikes, could you design a tube splitter into the frame, in order to allow mounting/retrofitting a carbon belt? Were there any findings on IGHs? ]
  • display: I would prefer a smaller display - leaves more space on the handle bar, for light, or smartphone/navigation: will the AM1000, maybe the 2018 version, be fitted with the smaller Bafang display (see P11)? Are the displays compatible, can it be changed later? Where can the small display and controller be purchased from?
4. Design: in order not to attract the attention of theives or authorities, I prefer more 'understatement', discreet colour schemes, but still, the gunmetal black design (Page 1, robocam's bike) looks too stealthy or threatening to me: would matte aluminium be feasible, only for the frame? Or matte grey, as shown on the new fatbike? I also like icehunter's design approach for optically integrating the battery into the frame.

5. Order process: how did you all order and pay? via Alibaba? Did anybody already order from Germany, is there any experience with German customs? (any issues with CE certification, COC, customs duty?)

6. Estimated delivery time if ordering in spring?

Thank you all, I'm looking forward to your opinions and advice.
Last edited by FREYebikes on Mar 10 2018 4:30am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Mar 10 2018 4:04am

Thank you for your advice. will considerate about it in the near future to develop some more type of models.
tommie wrote:
Mar 05 2018 5:35pm
18650 wrote:
Mar 05 2018 4:45pm
Commuter version:
@FreyBikes, will there be a commuter option? (hardtail frame, 29", rack, lights and fenders)? Apparently I am not alone with this usecase.
Yes, i agree, there is a massive market out there for a hardtail or Hybrid ebike with these specifications. MTB is only a small market in comparison.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Mar 10 2018 4:28am

Hi, all friends here!
I would like to have a short report about our bike come with 52V battery how it performs.
We have a test on flat road to compare 48V and 52V battery, how is the difference on the power of start and accelerate by throttle at a distance 80 m. 0 to start, by throttle only, in the smallest gear.
2 person have the test. One in 60KGS weight, another in 75KGS weight, results as below:

First person, in 60KGS, distance 80m,
48V battery: finish at 30.0km/h by 10.4 seconds.
52V battery: finish at 31.6km/h by 10.0 seconds.

Second person, in 75KGS, same distance.
48V battery: finish at 29.0km/h by 12.9 seconds.
52V battery: finsih at 30.0km/h by 12.4 seconds.

Obviously, 52V is more powerful than 48V battery.

Tomorrow, we will have some more test ride up to mountain. Will follow up more news about our test to you.
Below is 2018 AM1000 we are testing and supplying soon.
QQ图片20180310171530.jpg

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by hoojsn » Mar 10 2018 4:39am

FREYebikes wrote:
Mar 10 2018 4:02am
Hi,

I try to answer your requests now.
We are planning to develop some more models depend on the market demands and potential quantity, such as you told 29" hard tail model. and some model for commuter. In fact,some people buy our bike also for commuting , use not too wide tire, 2.2-24", and the rear shock is lockable.
Also we can supply this bike with front and rear lights connect to the main battery.
IMG_20180302_145012.jpg

Now all this motor come with steel gear inside.

About chain, we are using KMC strengthen special for ebike using, I think the quality is good and durable, but not sure how long distance need to be changed, anyway, we are using the best available chain on our bikes.

About IGH, we will follow it and maybe try some on our bike in the near future, after confirm some suitable model. as I known, it should be customized to match the frame. At present, belt is impossible to use, as bafang supply the specific strengthen crank wheel not fit for belt. only for chain.

And also the display is matching come with the motor set, we can't choose by ourselves.

About color, most of customer will prefer black, I think black is will be the best choice if don't want to have much attention.

Any more question please feel free ask. you can write email to me at: sales@frey.bike
I will answer and support you quickly. Here not very often come, maybe every week 1-2 times. but if there is any news I will share with you here and answer question and requests from all you.

18650 wrote:
Mar 05 2018 4:45pm
Hello AM1000 fans and Frey Ebikes,

I am more and more interested in e-bikes, specifically an allround and commuter bike. I did some research, and even test rode some bikes, but haven't made a decision yet. When I discovered the AM1000 I was impressed by it's specs... not many bikes around have as much power and range/capacity! And I am happy for having found this forum... so much experience, and even the manufacturer is READING and LISTENING.

I still have a some doubts and questions:

1. Range: for those who already received their bikes: I know, it is (was) winter, but... did anybody have the chance to ride his bike and can confirm battery capacity and/or range?

2. Commuter version:
@FreyBikes, will there be a commuter option? (hardtail frame, 29", rack, lights and fenders)? Apparently I am not alone with this usecase.
@EndlessSphere community... what do you think, would the AM1000 do for commuting? What changes would you suggest?
  • tyres - less offroad-style? any recommendation?
  • rack - I like the "fat bike" rack offered by m2s... @FreyBikes, could anything similar be available for the AM1000 frame?
  • light - is there a lights option (see oleaiz' bike, P5)? Or otherwise, is there a cabling option for front and rear lights, connected to the battery (not via USB)?
3. Other technical questions:
  • motor/gear: does the G510 always come with steel gears, is this a standard Frey improvement, or was this an optional feature?
  • chain/sprockets wear: I heard some concerns about chain and sprockets wear. Somebody said that probably the chain + sprockets would need to be changed approx. every 1000 km: what is your experience with so much power on a mid drive? Maybe also from your past BBS02/HD experience? [edit: I read some more on this, even here on Endless Sphere, I now understand the IGH discussion.Would a carbon belt make sense in combination with an IGH? @Frey Bikes, could you design a tube splitter into the frame, in order to allow mounting/retrofitting a carbon belt? Were there any findings on IGHs? ]
  • display: I would prefer a smaller display - leaves more space on the handle bar, for light, or smartphone/navigation: will the AM1000, maybe the 2018 version, be fitted with the smaller Bafang display (see P11)? Are the displays compatible, can it be changed later? Where can the small display and controller be purchased from?
4. Design: in order not to attract the attention of theives or authorities, I prefer more 'understatement', discreet colour schemes, but still, the gunmetal black design (Page 1, robocam's bike) looks too stealthy or threatening to me: would matte aluminium be feasible, only for the frame? Or matte grey, as shown on the new fatbike? I also like icehunter's design approach for optically integrating the battery into the frame.

5. Order process: how did you all order and pay? via Alibaba? Did anybody already order from Germany, is there any experience with German customs? (any issues with CE certification, COC, customs duty?)

6. Estimated delivery time if ordering in spring?

Thank you all, I'm looking forward to your opinions and advice.
My opinion on the chain as I use 3 brand for my Ebike, KMC, SRAM EX1 chain and Taya.
KMC: had 2000 miles on it, feel some tear and wear and skip some cog.
SRAM EX1 Chain. 1,000 miles on it, still feels like new without Tear & Wear.
Taya Chain: Now I am now in the trying program, had seen from my friends ebike with 4,000 miles still going strong.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by FREYebikes » Mar 11 2018 2:41am

News from FREY: We have ordered a m500 set to make sample bike firstly. The motor should be deliveried in early April replied from Bafang, Now we are have good experience on the full suspension construction design and buliding. Still thinking about what type battery tube and battery case fit for the new model come with m500/600.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by sacko » Mar 11 2018 4:28am


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