Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Hyena said:

RemoteRoad said:

Besides the steering angle advantage of the Fastace, and weight differences between the two forks, where would each fork type best shine, would you say?

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Interesting some of you prefer the RST, I think the fastace is the way to go. One of the first things I noticed about this bike was how much better it was smashing over the rough stuff. Not to sound like a broken record, but this IS a dirt bike and if you're going to ride it like one why put bicycle spec parts on it ? They're still light duty compared to even a 125cc dirt bike but I think they're perfect for the surron. If you're going to plod around on fire trails then sure go with the RSTs, but to me the fastace were a shining advantage of this bike over the others in my stable. I also like the better turning radius for the sort of trails I ride. Tight twisty stuff, rocky, steep, the sort of places you couldn't take a full sized dirt bike without falling off. To me being low to the ground being able to push off stuff and easily put your feet down in tricky spots is complimented by the better steering angle. I've dropped the bike a few times but had 5x more near drop experiences where I would have probably gone down if not for the extra maneuverability.

If I was calling the shots at surron I'd have a moto spec version with fastace forks, mx headset, bars and stem and mx front brakes, and then a lighter version with RSTs, mtb brakes and bars and maybe even 24" bicycle wheels. But for the sake of maybe a 1kg weight premium over the current mashup of bicycle parts seems like a no brainer to me. Surron seem to be constantly and rapidly implementing minor changes as we go (with incremental price increases) so fingers crossed we see some of these things in the future. And *BUMP* for a 72v FOC version

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Hyena, I gather your argument. With respect to the front fork particularly, in addition to the superior steering angle, you point to the Fastace/MX forks having better suspension travel? Anything else?

Wouldn't that travel advantage be related (and potentially negated) by the weight of the rider? So with a 145-155lbs rider, you think that Fastace travel advantage would be negated as compared with the lighter weight MTB front forks?

RemoteRoad said:

you point to the Fastace/MX forks having better suspension travel? Anything else?

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Actually I think it has slightly less suspension travel, but it's air adjustable so you just pump it up a bit of you want.
I haven't ridden both immediately back to back so I'll let Adam weigh on on this one as he has jumped between both bikes.
I'm not a real suspension expert so I don't know if it's their extra heft, or the valving or what. Regardless of what you put it down to, seat of the pants feel is they are just more sure footed smashing over stuff, ie being ridden as a dirt bike. I'm only ~20lb heavier than you suggested the lightest rider would be (unless it's a small woman) but I can't see these being a problem. My wife is ~100lb and she rides a 125cc pit bike which is much heavier than the surron in the fork, and in general and this is no issue for her. She's also ridden the surron and likes it. Only around a mild circuit mind you, no death defying stuff or giving any component of the bike a work out.

This photo should be titled - "how to make a surron look large" haha

Hyena said:

I haven't ridden both immediately back to back so I'll let Adam weigh on on this one as he has jumped between both bikes.
I'm not a real suspension expert so I don't know if it's their extra heft, or the valving or what. Regardless of what you put it down to, seat of the pants feel is they are just more sure footed smashing over stuff, ie being ridden as a dirt bike. I'm only ~20lb heavier than you suggested the lightest rider would be (unless it's a small woman) but I can't see these being a problem.

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So maybe it's the extra weight that balances the front end with the back and gives the MX FF the steadier feel? Interested to hear input from Adam on his perceptions and preferences.

[Your wife does make the Sur-Ron look full sized!]

I only ride the bikes as dirt bikes in the bush on some varied gnarly terrain, so my opinion is not suitable for most.

I agree that if you are riding one of these and pretending to be riding an e-bicycle get the RST fork, if you are going to be jumping the bike and bush bashing over rocks etc i think the Fastace is more suitable.

I have found that with the RST comp set to max i still use the full travel of the fork(and im only 75kg), whereas the Fastace is closer to 3/4. I can add pressure to my Fastace fork to increase compression, the new Fastace fork is spring and i havent tested it yet.
The RST front end does feel substantially lighter than the Fastace especially with a 26" front wheel, something i am loving more each ride.
I have a 27.5" front on my one of Fastace fork bikes but it currently has a cracked lower headset, so hasnt been tested yet.

The Fastace stancion is larger diameter and feels more solid and the forks have more adjustment than the RST, but suspension is a personal thing. Either way its very easy thing to upgrade later.

I dont suppoise anyone has tried removing the spring to see how wide and long it is? Just wondering if it is the same as any other on the market like rockshox domain

The Fastace fork is a Marzocchi clone/copy so I would imagine the parts to be identical or out by Chinese tolerance 1-2mm

Aebrennan said:

The Fastace fork is a Marzocchi clone/copy so I would imagine the parts to be identical or out by Chinese tolerance 1-2mm

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Which Zoch model did Fast Ace clone?

Aebrennan said:

The Fastace fork is a Marzocchi clone/copy so I would imagine the parts to be identical or out by Chinese tolerance 1-2mm

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I was thinking more towards the RST fork and being able to change the spring out to a stiffer coil if needed.
For instance, i have some rockshox domain dual crown forks and they come with 3 springs of differing stiffness(soft,medium,hard), plus there is an extra hard coil available. I think these may also fit the boxxer forks as well.

Aebrennan said:

I have a 27.5" front on my one of Fastace fork bikes but it currently has a cracked lower headset, so hasnt been tested yet.

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Sorry to hear this. A cracked lower head set is a worry. They havnt really been out long enough yet to test longevity. Any info about what may have caused this? Possibly a product design or material weakness? Importantly, How will it get fixed? Back to china for warranty? Please let is know how you go with this.

I’m sure that this will not be a concern for 90% of owners since most want to use the bikes as commuters and not dirt bikes.
The bikes need headset adjustment checked periodically and I only found the bearing race cracked after not being able to adjust out the play. The rougher the terrain, the more attention required.
The parts are here and will be replaced by the weekend and I will investigate further once removed.

Good to know it sounds like a relatively easy fix

My Lite Bee is getting a work out as a farm bike. The beekeeper dropped in to shift his 12 hives of our bush paddock at 9pm at night so got on the bike ran up the road opened the gate while keeping the stock (curious alpacas) back. popped through the gate laid the bike over against the bank on the farm track, closed the gate, down the hill waited for him to finish reverse the process. MUCH easier than our Polaris Ace, dead quiet, and the light is OK for night riding.
Shifting stock you can get close to the alpacas and then either shout or use the horn. I have dropped it a couple of times, steep bits plus being a cowboy or kick stand into mud. No damage to idiot rider or bike.
For fun I am exploring our local farm roads. Doesn't piss anyone of, everyone is just interested and wants a turn. Universally impressed with the get up and go.
I have fitted a rear view mirror on a custom mount (run my own machine shop) so I can see if anyone is coming up behind me.
Really need guards as my wife the farmer wants me to help her occasionally and man its been wet. My jacket and the bike have mud all over.

So living the dream and loving it.

Great story Mark!
I’m glad you are that happy with the bike.
I have fitted Zefal front guards to my RST equipped bikes, easy install secured with provided Velcro straps.
You will have a few more Light Bee owners nearby soon as I’ve had a lot of interest from NZ guys.

I generally don't like to be competitive as a parent, but my kid is cooler than your kid. :lol:

Pretty dang cool.

I wish i was this cool when i was 6

Get that kid on a sur-ron!

skeetab5780 said:

Get that kid on a sur-ron!

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that is a Torrot mini emoto (torrot now owns the gasgas motorcycle brand and provided the electronics for the new gasgas electric trials motorcycle).. so he already has the ebike grin, and more importantly a bike that fits his size (would need a ladder to mount the Sur-ron..)

My kids have a bike the same size as that one, different brand and originally lower power but I hotted it up to give it some more poke. Naturally! My eldest (9) has outgrown it now and I'm looking at 65cc size bikes for him. Surron should add a smaller bike to their line up! Something with 12" wheels (or even 14") and a smaller battery. There's a real gap in the market for kids in that 7-12 age group. Too big for a 50cc size but way too small for a full size bike (or even surron)

Aebrennan said:

I can add pressure to my Fastace fork to increase compression, the new Fastace fork is spring and i havent tested it yet.

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Anyone tested this new FastAce spring-based fork (just gained a basic understanding of front forks/suspension - air vs. spring)? Going away from air seems to remove one of the main advantages of the FastAce.

Hyena said:

My kids have a bike the same size as that one, different brand and originally lower power but I hotted it up to give it some more poke. Naturally! My eldest (9) has outgrown it now and I'm looking at 65cc size bikes for him. Surron should add a smaller bike to their line up! Something with 12" wheels (or even 14") and a smaller battery. There's a real gap in the market for kids in that 7-12 age group. Too big for a 50cc size but way too small for a full size bike (or even surron)

Riley-jump-ES.jpg

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how about an Oset 24 or kuberg challenger, just add a pitbike seat..

RemoteRoad said:

Aebrennan said:

I can add pressure to my Fastace fork to increase compression, the new Fastace fork is spring and i havent tested it yet.

Click to expand...

Anyone tested this new FastAce spring-based fork (just gained a basic understanding of front forks/suspension - air vs. spring)? Going away from air seems to remove one of the main advantages of the FastAce.

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The bikes Allex has are probably the first batch of spring Fastace forks, i noticed the fork guards were now black vs the white ones on my first shipment.
I was told that they changed from air to spring, due to the spring version having less maintenence. Ask Hyena about this! :lol:
He will have a spring left leg to test soon.

Oh there is my kid is cooler than your one competition going on.

This is our Neo at age of 4 with his 29kg 7kw DIY oset build
https://youtu.be/y4vi750MujU

And there he was 3.5 years old, jumping after 1:20
https://youtu.be/0WHcBz9rYo4

Boom!

[youtube]IkJNgrHw8gk[/youtube]
I agree there is not a good bike like a 65cc dirt bike size.

The Kuberg cross and Oset MX10 models are too small - same with the SSR SZR800W and its got poor performance out of the box.

I took the Light bee down to Moab this past weekend. What a blast! Rode the slickrock trail with my son, while he was a trooper and pedaled the whole thing. I worried that rock crawling might be really hard on the bike, as it is on and off full torque. Most of them are short climbs, but they are straight up climbs. No overheating that I could feel. I know that isn't scientific, but the bike never shut down or anything. I was glad to have the raceface shock. It made all the drops much easier.
The next day we rode the Hymasa trail. I don't ride trials bikes or anything - this really is my first "dirt bike", so it was an eye opener to see what real mx riders can do. I saw a bunch of MX riders dump their 400 lb bikes trying to climb technical stuff. As a complete newbie, I would try and rally up stuff and if I didn't make it, I'd just carry my bike using the throttle. I got a bunch of smirks from those guys. Don't know if they were mocking more or not, but I kept up with most of them and I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm not much for pics or videos, but I'll try and get something posted. My son took his gopro and so I've got 4 hrs of handlebar footage. Maybe 2 mins of stuff you'd want to see.
Here's a pic of what its like on those trails. You get to go up and down that stuff.

I hope to get down there a few more times before the summer heats up. I did get some mountain biker yelling at me while I was standing by the Hymasa mountain bike sign telling me where the 4x4 trail starts. Again, don't know if he was just trying to be nice or if he thought I'd poach the mt. bike portion of the trail. Saw a few of these lame signs.

It really is weird to me that an environmental friendly activity such as ebiking has such blow back from the environmentalist mt. bikers. Especially after hearing all the noise from the side x sides, jeeps and dirt bikes down in Moab, you can hear those things for miles in the canyons. Why wouldn't they embrace an alternative like ebikes? My son said we should make stickers that say "e-bikes are bikes, they aren't e-motorcycles!" The whole thing in NYC has me baffled also. Why would they ban ebikes in Manhatten? Isn't that as anti-Trump a place as you get? They really are advocating that these delivery drivers start using polluting cars for their deliveries? It seems that the ebike community has no friends. Kind of how I felt while I was in Moab. I didn't fit with the gassers and didn't fit with the bikers. I still had a bigger smiler than both of them.
Edit:
Still need new bars on this! It was the only thing that I'd wish I'd done before I left. Plus, it would make it easier to get on my bike rack!