already discussed & rejected
Chalo said:I can't help but think that their commitment to a closed system was partly what put them out of business. And in due course, it will be what makes the remaining kits disappear ahead of schedule.
Cephalotus said:Chalo said:I can't help but think that their commitment to a closed system was partly what put them out of business. And in due course, it will be what makes the remaining kits disappear ahead of schedule.
Other closed systems from Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha and so on are VERY popular.
justin_le said:Also, part of why this news stings a little bit for me is that I had just completed a pretty exhaustive study of Statorade as a motor cooling solution in both the BionX PL350 and 'D' series motors, and was hoping that we could have our first proper OEM customer for this after our 3 years testing and R&D. Have a read at the attached .pdf document and tell me this wouldn't have been a perfect pairing.
<snip>
It would have been a sweet little partnership, since it could increase the power and performance at thermal rollback of their motors by a substantial percentage with minimal additional cost to BionX and no change at all to their manufacturing process. And who knows if with the right marketing that might have resulted in a boost in interest and sales for the BionX system.
Cephalotus said:Chalo said:I can't help but think that their commitment to a closed system was partly what put them out of business. And in due course, it will be what makes the remaining kits disappear ahead of schedule.
Other closed systems from Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha and so on are VERY popular.
Cephalotus said:B-side said:The BMS is still OK but needs to be reprogrammed. Can be done using BBI if you have access to "recover" functions...
Recover function never worked for me in case of a deactivated BionX BMS.
BionX wants to kill their batteries when cells have been deeply discharged (sometime sin the life of the BMS). Sad ting is that this prevents DIY cell replacements.
This is understandable from the companies point of view (not anybody wants to see a picture of a burning battery with your companies name on it), but of course this is quite shitty for the DIYer, who wants to replace the aging cells.
It's worse because the BionX BMS fails more often than the cell packs, so there is a large demand for functional BionX BMS but no supply.
Chalo said:I can't help but think that their commitment to a closed system was partly what put them out of business. And in due course, it will be what makes the remaining kits disappear ahead of schedule.
Cephalotus said:In Germany the rate for speed Pedleec (legal 45km/h) has stagnated around 1% (one percent), similar to 2016. In the Netherlands the rate for speed Pedelec was around 1.4%. I don't have the numver for Switzerland, maybe it is highest there.
Other European countries like UK, Italy, Austria or France do not have that option at all.
The Bicycle Association of Great Britain (BAGB) is pushing for such an e-bike subsidy scheme as the UK government states that Low-emission vehicles are eligible for it. Belgium is also encouraging commuting by bicycle. Employers can reward staff for commuting by bike, paying them €0.23 for every kilometre they cycle. Hundreds of thousands of e-bike riders in Belgium are participating in this ‘cycle to work’ tax scheme. This program has been extended to speed-pedelecs recently.
Today, the Danish Road Safety Agency released a draft for a trial on letting so-called Speed Pedelecs use bike lanes in the country. Speed Pedelecs are able to reach a motor-assisted top speed of 45 km/h (28 mph) as opposed to standard Pedelec e-bikes that can go 25 km/h (15 mph).
I had both Wavecrest and EMS bikes. (I still have one as my backup.) Both used non-OEM batteries and Cycle Analysts.Chalo said:This isn't a new lesson to learn. Sanyo, SRAM, Wavecrest, and others have entered and left the e-bike market already with more or less proprietary systems. Approximately nobody is still using them. Some modular equipment from the same time periods is still in service. Some contemporary manufacturers of modular equipment that we knew then are still with us. But all the dedicated, intentionally incompatible systems are gone.
billvon said:Look at the car market. How many people refuse to buy a car because the CAN bus on that car is difficult to hack? Now how many people refuse to buy a car because it's the wrong color?
Which is equivalent to saying "consumers exemplify the very worst and weakest things about us." So yes, if you don't want any plan to work with consumers, and work only for the technical people on this board, then your suggestion has merit.Chalo said:Car people exemplify the very worst and weakest things about us. Just get out on the street as a human being and see for yourself. To me, you might as well ask why serial killers do the things the way they do.
eCue said:If my BionX battery pack failed to charge I would pull it apart snip the BMS free and install a wifi BMS
So add a cycle analyst.Syonyk said:This will work, sort of, but you won't have any battery status indication on the console, will have error codes, and if I had to guess, I'd say it would probably disable regen without any clue how full the battery is (to avoid overfilling a battery).
48V (even 36V) provides plenty of power for most ebike applications.Basically, all the 48V systems are soon to be scrap.
billvon said:So add a cycle analyst.
48V (even 36V) provides plenty of power for most ebike applications.
Agreed there.Syonyk said:I mean, at some point, you could hack enough crap onto the system to make it sort of work, but the draw of BionX, at least in my experience, is the integrated system. Having one console over here, another one for monitoring the battery, no regen, etc... not going to be popular among the crowd that owns BionX.
OK. Sorry, I thought you were talking about the potential for replacement with another battery.That was specific to BionX... in, you know, a BionX thread... The 48V BionX packs are weak on the best of days in terms of robustness. They are constantly failing from some failure or other (failed output FETs, wearing out the cells, cell balance issues for no apparent reason, etc), and the supply of them will run short. Or people will run short on patience for their third $1000 pack in 5 years.
billvon said:Which is equivalent to saying "consumers exemplify the very worst and weakest things about us." So yes, if you don't want any plan to work with consumers, and work only for the technical people on this board, then your suggestion has merit.Chalo said:Car people exemplify the very worst and weakest things about us. Just get out on the street as a human being and see for yourself. To me, you might as well ask why serial killers do the things the way they do.
spinningmagnets said:If you open up a BionX D-series, how hard is it to parse out the motor phase wires and run a cable to the outside so you can attach a standard 3-phase ebike controller?
I want BionX to survive, but...if there suddenly becomes a LOT of cheap used D-series hubs available, I want to know what it would take to get one running...
Syonyk said:eCue said:If my BionX battery pack failed to charge I would pull it apart snip the BMS free and install a wifi BMS
This will work, sort of, but you won't have any battery status indication on the console, will have error codes, and if I had to guess, I'd say it would probably disable regen without any clue how full the battery is (to avoid overfilling a battery).
Basically, all the 48V systems are soon to be scrap.
eCue said:You might of overthought this there is a good chance the controller uses the voltage state to know to engage regen and display the voltage.
Edit - I now realize they paired the bms to the controller - sneaky guys
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7813