Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Get real world experience and user feedback on the electric bicycle products.
User avatar
electricwheels.de   100 W

100 W
Posts: 160
Joined: Mar 02 2010 4:16pm
Location: Cologne / Köln (Germany)
Contact:

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by electricwheels.de » Apr 03 2018 3:02am

Hi all,

in the meantime I had a chat with Justin and I might get some unpotted phaserunners without any wiring attached.
So the options at this point are wide open, and I'll prepare some documentation regarding possible wiring. Could you give me some kind of idea of what you would prefer?

Reinhard
Custom made cables and wiring harnesses for e-bikes. HIGO connectors and extension cables. World wide mail order.
e-bike-technologies webshop
AWD e-fatbike 'Sandkatze'

User avatar
Marin   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 355
Joined: May 20 2015 4:51pm
Location: BC, Canada

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by Marin » Apr 03 2018 11:14am

electricwheels.de wrote:
Apr 03 2018 3:02am
Hi all,

in the meantime I had a chat with Justin and I might get some unpotted phaserunners without any wiring attached.
So the options at this point are wide open, and I'll prepare some documentation regarding possible wiring. Could you give me some kind of idea of what you would prefer?

Reinhard

What about one that is plug and play with the BBSHD and CA, and you would pot them?
Marin ex-rental hybrid with 48v bionx...sold
Specialized hardrock with magic pie 4-5
Lunacycle with l/r mid drive coming soon
Kona Caldera with QS 30H (maybe), and phase runner
Giant Yukon bbs02
Kona Abra Cadabra bbshd
Wildfire fat bike bbshd

User avatar
Alan B   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7486
Joined: Sep 11 2010 7:43am
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, USA
Contact:

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by Alan B » Apr 03 2018 12:44pm

Ideally unbolt the stock controller section and bolt on a new assembly with PhaseRunner and BBSHD compatible connectors inside and CA compatible connectors coming out. Fairly stock looking, maybe with some subtle fins for cooling, nothing too obvious.

User avatar
electricwheels.de   100 W

100 W
Posts: 160
Joined: Mar 02 2010 4:16pm
Location: Cologne / Köln (Germany)
Contact:

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by electricwheels.de » Apr 03 2018 4:46pm

To connect a standard CA3-DPS with a standard Phaserunner and a standard BBSx you would need 5 adapters:
1. a throttle adapter to connect your BBSx throttle with the CA3
2. a brake adapter to connect your BBSx brakes with the CA3
3. a PAS adapter to connect your BBSx PAS sensor with the CA3
4. a hall adapter to connect your BBSx hall sensors with the Phaserunner
5. a phase adapter to connect your BBSx phase wires with the Phaserunner

note that the bridge between the PAS adaptor and the hall adaptor is for the +5V power supply to the PAS sensors.
.
standard CA3 and Phaserunner.JPG
Adaptor set to connect CA3-DPS with Phaserunner and BBSHD
standard CA3 and Phaserunner.JPG (116.65 KiB) Viewed 2033 times
Custom made cables and wiring harnesses for e-bikes. HIGO connectors and extension cables. World wide mail order.
e-bike-technologies webshop
AWD e-fatbike 'Sandkatze'

User avatar
Marin   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 355
Joined: May 20 2015 4:51pm
Location: BC, Canada

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by Marin » Apr 03 2018 6:21pm

I guess I was hoping to have your higo setup on the CA so not so many adapters.
Marin ex-rental hybrid with 48v bionx...sold
Specialized hardrock with magic pie 4-5
Lunacycle with l/r mid drive coming soon
Kona Caldera with QS 30H (maybe), and phase runner
Giant Yukon bbs02
Kona Abra Cadabra bbshd
Wildfire fat bike bbshd

handbaked   10 W

10 W
Posts: 72
Joined: Jul 13 2015 6:52pm

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by handbaked » Apr 03 2018 6:25pm

I would love the higo case for the CA.

User avatar
electricwheels.de   100 W

100 W
Posts: 160
Joined: Mar 02 2010 4:16pm
Location: Cologne / Köln (Germany)
Contact:

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by electricwheels.de » Apr 04 2018 5:40pm

OK, meet the new CA3-CX (Custom whatever)...
Here the CA3-CX with a Phaserunner CX on the BBSHD. All plug and play.
CA3-CX_Phaserunner_BBSHD.JPG
CA3-CX plus Phaserunner-CX to suit BBSHD
CA3-CX_Phaserunner_BBSHD.JPG (193.12 KiB) Viewed 1576 times
and here in more detail as PDF file:
CA3-CX_Phaserunner_BBSHD.PDF
CA3-CX plus Phaserunner-CX to suit BBSHD
(496.28 KiB) Downloaded 245 times
.
Custom made cables and wiring harnesses for e-bikes. HIGO connectors and extension cables. World wide mail order.
e-bike-technologies webshop
AWD e-fatbike 'Sandkatze'

handbaked   10 W

10 W
Posts: 72
Joined: Jul 13 2015 6:52pm

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by handbaked » Apr 04 2018 6:01pm

I seem to have issues opening the PDF...

Tommm   100 W

100 W
Posts: 207
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by Tommm » Apr 05 2018 3:39am

Is there a way to get PAS working on the phaserunner?

User avatar
electricwheels.de   100 W

100 W
Posts: 160
Joined: Mar 02 2010 4:16pm
Location: Cologne / Köln (Germany)
Contact:

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by electricwheels.de » Apr 05 2018 4:00am

Tommm wrote:
Apr 05 2018 3:39am
Is there a way to get PAS working on the phaserunner?
By utilising the BBSHD's original PAS/DIR sensors, the CA3 evaluates these signals and controls the Phaserunner via the PAS-setup menu.
Custom made cables and wiring harnesses for e-bikes. HIGO connectors and extension cables. World wide mail order.
e-bike-technologies webshop
AWD e-fatbike 'Sandkatze'

handbaked   10 W

10 W
Posts: 72
Joined: Jul 13 2015 6:52pm

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by handbaked » Apr 06 2018 12:30pm

Is there any estimate on when the higo connected cycle analyst will become available? I had already made my phaserunner higo compatible but the CA would be amazing.

bananastand   10 µW

10 µW
Posts: 5
Joined: Feb 19 2018 6:43pm

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by bananastand » Apr 19 2018 11:45am

electricwheels.de wrote:
Apr 03 2018 4:46pm
To connect a standard CA3-DPS with a standard Phaserunner and a standard BBSx you would need 5 adapters:
1. a throttle adapter to connect your BBSx throttle with the CA3
2. a brake adapter to connect your BBSx brakes with the CA3
3. a PAS adapter to connect your BBSx PAS sensor with the CA3
4. a hall adapter to connect your BBSx hall sensors with the Phaserunner
5. a phase adapter to connect your BBSx phase wires with the Phaserunner

note that the bridge between the PAS adaptor and the hall adaptor is for the +5V power supply to the PAS sensors.
.
standard CA3 and Phaserunner.JPG
Do you make these adapters? Otherwise I will have to buy HIGO plugs and crimp on JST connectors if I don't want to cut the original connections?

tinasdude   10 W

10 W
Posts: 99
Joined: Jun 14 2014 11:01am
Location: Evans, Ga.

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by tinasdude » Apr 21 2018 1:28pm

The CA3 with Higos is on his website.

User avatar
electricwheels.de   100 W

100 W
Posts: 160
Joined: Mar 02 2010 4:16pm
Location: Cologne / Köln (Germany)
Contact:

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by electricwheels.de » Apr 23 2018 3:54pm

tinasdude wrote:
Apr 21 2018 1:28pm
The CA3 with Higos is on his website.
The CA3-HIGO is more or less the standard CA3-DP/DPS upgrade. It is NOT suitable for use with BBSx controllers.
With an adapter (HIGO to JST) you can use a CA3-HIGO with the Phaserunner. A full CA3/Phaserunner set (including plug and play harness) will be available later in the year.
Custom made cables and wiring harnesses for e-bikes. HIGO connectors and extension cables. World wide mail order.
e-bike-technologies webshop
AWD e-fatbike 'Sandkatze'

tinasdude   10 W

10 W
Posts: 99
Joined: Jun 14 2014 11:01am
Location: Evans, Ga.

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by tinasdude » Apr 23 2018 5:52pm

electricwheels.de wrote:
Apr 23 2018 3:54pm
tinasdude wrote:
Apr 21 2018 1:28pm
The CA3 with Higos is on his website.
The CA3-HIGO is more or less the standard CA3-DP/DPS upgrade. It is NOT suitable for use with BBSx controllers.
With an adapter (HIGO to JST) you can use a CA3-HIGO with the Phaserunner. A full CA3/Phaserunner set (including plug and play harness) will be available later in the year.
How much later in the year?

bananastand   10 µW

10 µW
Posts: 5
Joined: Feb 19 2018 6:43pm

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by bananastand » May 05 2018 5:05pm

How do I wire in my current gearsensor?

I am guessing just have the two ebrake sensors and gear sensor wire into the same connection and connect that to the ebrake connector on the CA3?

Aerialpixels   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 15
Joined: Nov 28 2017 8:25pm

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by Aerialpixels » May 09 2018 10:23pm

Guys seriously, let the Hugo's go and move on. Amazon has an 11 dollar kit with every JST connector you'll ever need for the rest of your life. Just get the crimper and watch a YouTube video how to use them. Soooo much nicer when you can make the wires the length you need anyway. Besides, you'll want this anyway to shorten the CA3 wires and accessories anyway.
Internal PAS on BBSHD works fine with the Phase runner. The Phaserunner will not fit where the stock controller went. I mounted mine on the back of the seat stay tube.

Moving on... Despite having hit 53mph, I found a way to unlock even more power. Increased max amps from battery in phaserunner settings and BBSHD now whisper quiet and still cool at 60amps and I think I hit 5300 watts. It pulls so hard I may have to slow it down with the CA3 a bit. Also, I took the motor apart to grease the gears and am happy to report the internals looked brand new. Windings and rotor literally look brand new and I ride it everyday hard. In comparison, running 54v I burned a BBSHD with a shunt modded controller cruising in high gear. Phaserunner, high voltage and low gears = long life!

Another thing I think is worth mentioning... I picked up a cyclone 3000 and spent the last couple weeks getting it installed. After countless tweaks and attempts I simply could not get this motor to run as good as the BBSHD and phaserunner.

Consequently, Luna sold this to me with a Bac 800 4000watt 72v controller and claimed it to be plug and play and tuned perfectly. That was bull. That controller faulted out and shut down every time I'd goose the throttle. Tried the phaserunner and because I could program that one, it did run better but BBSHD is faster and so much quieter. If I was only running 48v the cyclone would probably be a big jump in torque over the BBSHD and stock controller but the phaserunner Flux weakening is incredible on the BBSHD. On the cyclone, I actually didn't see the benefit.

Aerialpixels   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 15
Joined: Nov 28 2017 8:25pm

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by Aerialpixels » May 09 2018 10:49pm

Seriously? You rode your motorcycle on bicycle trails in Topanga State Park? What an F'n jerk! It is people like you who will cause the Rangers to ban all ebikes from the park. What a selfish self centered asshole. And insult to injury, you used the throttle all the way, so that there would be no doubt that you were totally illegal.
Yes I did. I asked someone there and they said as long as I stayed on the fire trails (believe that's what he called them) he said it was fine. I had street tires and probably went all of 5-8mph so I didn't kill myself.

I don't appreciate your language or your assumptions. Have some class and control your language. It just makes you look like a jerk. Instead, why not lend a bit of advice and let me know ebike aren't allowed there. I read the signs and asked before I dared go out of respect and concern. You didn't even care to ask and assumed I was riding like I stole it. Ever ride street tires in sand? Doesn't work very well. I had to go slow... Very slow.

For anyone else who is enjoying the help I'm freely offering, feel free to pm me. I have no interest in helping people who don't appreciate it.

miro13car   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1539
Joined: Mar 26 2007 1:30pm
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by miro13car » May 12 2018 11:40am

agree with him
while riding my Eplus fake pedalling all the way on pathway when I live Calgary
all the sudden I was passed by self entitled jerk on Bafang not even moving his legs at all.
Jerks like him for sure will prompt some dog walkers, runners, you name them to call Calgary 311 to report illegal vehicle on pathway,
2,3, 10 such calls and by-law will be hiding on pathways waiting for us ebike riders to write us tickets.

tinasdude   10 W

10 W
Posts: 99
Joined: Jun 14 2014 11:01am
Location: Evans, Ga.

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by tinasdude » May 12 2018 7:16pm

Aerialpixels thankyou for sharing all your work with the phaserunner.

HestonBluemetal   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 7
Joined: May 13 2018 6:08am

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by HestonBluemetal » May 13 2018 7:36am

electricwheels.de wrote:
Apr 03 2018 4:46pm
To connect a standard CA3-DPS with a standard Phaserunner and a standard BBSx you would need 5 adapters:
1. a throttle adapter to connect your BBSx throttle with the CA3
2. a brake adapter to connect your BBSx brakes with the CA3
3. a PAS adapter to connect your BBSx PAS sensor with the CA3
4. a hall adapter to connect your BBSx hall sensors with the Phaserunner
5. a phase adapter to connect your BBSx phase wires with the Phaserunner

note that the bridge between the PAS adaptor and the hall adaptor is for the +5V power supply to the PAS sensors.
.
standard CA3 and Phaserunner.JPG
Anyone know where I can get the brake adapter and the Throttle adapter?

Also I think I need the bridge adapter for the pas to hall +5v.

Aerialpixels   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 15
Joined: Nov 28 2017 8:25pm

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by Aerialpixels » May 21 2018 11:37am

Guys, I mentioned occasionally getting instantaneous overcurrent faults during part throttle acceleration and resolved it.
After auto tune, I set current bandwidth and PLL to 0. Then I went to advanced screen and set Ki and Kp manually. I actually left KP alone. (auto tune value of 118) but lowered ki from the auto tune value to .2 and the overcurrent faults stopped completely.

At this point I'm getting a reliable 4500-5000 watts out of the BBSHD on 88v and about 55-60 amps. The key is the heatsinks I added to the motor. Barely ever breaks 100 degrees F.

I tried a cyclone looking for more power but the BBSHD was better.

tinasdude   10 W

10 W
Posts: 99
Joined: Jun 14 2014 11:01am
Location: Evans, Ga.

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by tinasdude » May 21 2018 12:46pm

Aerialpixels wrote:
May 09 2018 10:23pm
Guys seriously, let the Hugo's go and move on. Amazon has an 11 dollar kit with every JST connector you'll ever need for the rest of your life. Just get the crimper and watch a YouTube video how to use them. Soooo much nicer when you can make the wires the length you need anyway. Besides, you'll want this anyway to shorten the CA3 wires and accessories anyway.
Internal PAS on BBSHD works fine with the Phase runner. The Phaserunner will not fit where the stock controller went. I mounted mine on the back of the seat stay tube.

Moving on... Despite having hit 53mph, I found a way to unlock even more power. Increased max amps from battery in phaserunner settings and BBSHD now whisper quiet and still cool at 60amps and I think I hit 5300 watts. It pulls so hard I may have to slow it down with the CA3 a bit. Also, I took the motor apart to grease the gears and am happy to report the internals looked brand new. Windings and rotor literally look brand new and I ride it everyday hard. In comparison, running 54v I burned a BBSHD with a shunt modded controller cruising in high gear. Phaserunner, high voltage and low gears = long life!

Another thing I think is worth mentioning... I picked up a cyclone 3000 and spent the last couple weeks getting it installed. After countless tweaks and attempts I simply could not get this motor to run as good as the BBSHD and phaserunner.

Consequently, Luna sold this to me with a Bac 800 4000watt 72v controller and claimed it to be plug and play and tuned perfectly. That was bull. That controller faulted out and shut down every time I'd goose the throttle. Tried the phaserunner and because I could program that one, it did run better but BBSHD is faster and so much quieter. If I was only running 48v the cyclone would probably be a big jump in torque over the BBSHD and stock controller but the phaserunner Flux weakening is incredible on the BBSHD. On the cyclone, I actually didn't see the benefit.
Will this connector pack do the job? What would the best thermo paste to get? Again, thanks for your help here. You have given me the confidence or false confidence to move ahead. https://www.amazon.com/QLOUNI-560Piece- ... +set&psc=1

tinasdude   10 W

10 W
Posts: 99
Joined: Jun 14 2014 11:01am
Location: Evans, Ga.

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by tinasdude » May 23 2018 7:46pm

which iwiss crimpers for the jst's

tinasdude   10 W

10 W
Posts: 99
Joined: Jun 14 2014 11:01am
Location: Evans, Ga.

Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by tinasdude » May 29 2018 9:48am

Aerialpixels wrote:
Dec 15 2017 11:56pm
So I've been running this setup everyday on my commute and whole heartedly can say it's simply amazing. Hall sensors can be wired anyway you choose however I simply omitted the purple wire as it's not used. I have been tinkering with a few settings and even managed to eliminate the initial jerk of the chain when applying the throttle while coasting. The throttle engages so smoothly it puts the original Bafang controller to shame. Again, I'll put together a few screen shots or list the settings / wire connections but it's really simple.

With a 42t chain ring and 32 tooth cog out back (3rd gear on my 11 speed Sram 1150 cassette) the bike can pull wheelies from a 15mph roll if I want and tops out at 47mph which I've confirmed by GPS on my phone. I have forgotten what it's like to shift and love it. Because of the low gearing, the bike only pulls 10-20 amps at 30mph which is just over half throttle.

So far motor temps have not exceeded 95 degrees F which is fed from a 10k thermistor I installed on the stator windings.

Over the week I've gradually increased power while watching temps. I'm at 45 amps @88v and couldn't be happier. I had the 3 position switch set for 25a, 35a and 45a. I switched it to the lower levels a couple times and was so bored I took the switch out.

I'll post updates again soon. Today's run was 82 degrees outside and motor only ran 10 degrees over ambient.

Just buy it from ebike.ca and never look back. You can do it. Don't pay more.

Joe
My motor is older and has no thermistor wire. what thermistor wire did you use and where on the stator did you install it. thanks

Post Reply