New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

casainho said:
- (insert your ideas here)
Click to expand...

Being able to stop the screen switching off and thus the motor, if it hasn't been in use for a few minutes would be really useful; I was pedalling in my recumbent with no assist for more than 5 minutes and it switched off; it's also happened on long descents and indeed at traffic lights or roadworks with long delays.
 
gggplaya said:
raw_bullitt said:
Hello!

I have a problem as the tsdz2 doesn't give pedal support at low speeds or when starting to drive (as the bullitt is a cargo bike I need a huge amount of torque to start biking so the sensor should register torque and send a signal to motor).

I Installed the tsdz2 350 w with xh18 om my bullitt today. Had to cut some of the brackets away with a grinder to make it fit on the bullitt frame.
Spend the better part of the day hiding the cables, but it looks great. At higher speeds (10 km and up) the pedal support kicks in and it works like a breeze. Anybody here knows the reason why it doesn't work at low speed at the moment?

Thanks!

Will post pictures of the setup tomorrow, in case somebody else wants to convert a bullitt to a pedelec.
Click to expand...
Did u let it calibrate the torque sensor? Stay off the pedals for 10 seconds after u turn it on. It calibrates every tim u turn it on.
Click to expand...

Did some more test this morning:

I turned it on without applying pressure on the pedals, let it calibrate for 10 seconds, But when I start biking and apply torque, there's one quick push from the engine, after that it seems to cut out, only to come back when I'm up to speed.
As said when up to speed the support works really well. If I get it to work throughout the range would be great!

Any suggestions?
 
aja said:
casainho said:
- (insert your ideas here)
Click to expand...

Being able to stop the screen switching off and thus the motor, if it hasn't been in use for a few minutes would be really useful; I was pedalling in my recumbent with no assist for more than 5 minutes and it switched off; it's also happened on long descents and indeed at traffic lights or roadworks with long delays.
Click to expand...
I don't know what turns off the system on that situation, if the LCD or the motor controller.
On Kuteng, the LCD can turn off the controller. The LCD also use the same microcontroller STM8S105, so we could make the firmware for it, if anyone is interested to make it.
I would say TSDZ2 motor controller and LCD were developed by Kuteng, as a service for TongSheng.
 
The only trouble we have had apart from toasting a blue gear on the units we have ( I put some of the blame on the rider here, too taller a gear and quite a powerful rider, probably putting in 250W + 500W in the wrong gear on start off ) is when the speed magnet or sensor turns sideways ( if it gets knocked ) and the magnet becomes too close to the sensor. We get a similar thing that of not reading the speed correctly the units go into a weird on off power up. I think the later units like a good 5mm of clearance between the sensor and magnet.
 
raw_bullitt said:
gggplaya said:
raw_bullitt said:
Hello!

I have a problem as the tsdz2 doesn't give pedal support at low speeds or when starting to drive (as the bullitt is a cargo bike I need a huge amount of torque to start biking so the sensor should register torque and send a signal to motor).

I Installed the tsdz2 350 w with xh18 om my bullitt today. Had to cut some of the brackets away with a grinder to make it fit on the bullitt frame.
Spend the better part of the day hiding the cables, but it looks great. At higher speeds (10 km and up) the pedal support kicks in and it works like a breeze. Anybody here knows the reason why it doesn't work at low speed at the moment?

Thanks!

Will post pictures of the setup tomorrow, in case somebody else wants to convert a bullitt to a pedelec.
Click to expand...
Did u let it calibrate the torque sensor? Stay off the pedals for 10 seconds after u turn it on. It calibrates every tim u turn it on.
Click to expand...

Did some more test this morning:

I turned it on without applying pressure on the pedals, let it calibrate for 10 seconds, But when I start biking and apply torque, there's one quick push from the engine, after that it seems to cut out, only to come back when I'm up to speed.
As said when up to speed the support works really well. If I get it to work throughout the range would be great!

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

And did some more testing to get to the root of the problem and realized that the speedometer shows 0 km/h when it doesn't give pedal support, the moment it shows a speed on the screen the motor kicks in. It almost seems it uses the speedometer as a cadence sensor, but that's not the way it works right? Or then there's an error in the controller which causes it to not show the speed and not to give pedal support.

Any suggestions?
 
I didn't even have my speed sensor installed and the motor was working properly.

I did test the pedaling during boot sequence this morning and I have to say I like it. I started pedaling slowly (20rpm +/-) then turned it on and continued for 15-20 seconds. After that the motor does not kick in when starting off from a stop and it waits until I get moving a bit. I prefer it this way to put less stress on the motor and gear on takeoffs from a stop :)
 
John and Cecil said:
I didn't even have my speed sensor installed and the motor was working properly.

I did test the pedaling during boot sequence this morning and I have to say I like it. I started pedaling slowly (20rpm +/-) then turned it on and continued for 15-20 seconds. After that the motor does not kick in when starting off from a stop and it waits until I get moving a bit. I prefer it this way to put less stress on the motor and gear on takeoffs from a stop :)
Click to expand...
A ramp current/torque would probably be the best of both worlds, so one would get assist from stop but with an increasing ramp of motor torque.
 
After 4 different BBSxx motors and two TSDZ, I'm most satisfied with an Mac/eZee with Sempu Torque Sensing Bottom Bracket from our forum owner ebikes.ca. Using the calculator, these gears hub drives perform incredibly well for most of us with grades. All but the steepest and longest. Even so, I just sold an eZee to a fella with a 15 mile 7.5% grade and the dive will never overheat. I'm continuing the TSDZ testing this spring, simply because I think it's the nicest low price kit built, but for a couple more bucks, unless you need to climb a mountain...

TSDZ, a better choice than BBSxx IMO, despite any issues.
 
tomjasz said:
I'm most satisfied with an Mac/eZee with Sempu Torque Sensing Bottom Bracket
Click to expand...
I am also using bottom bracket torque sensor only on my 3 ebikes, with hub motors. Torque sensor is the way to go to keep having a bicycle experience.
I am using the $50 BMSBAttery bottom bracket torque sensor: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/development/Torque_sensors--BMSBattery_torque_sensor.html
 
aja said:
Being able to stop the screen switching off and thus the motor, if it hasn't been in use for a few minutes would be really useful;
Click to expand...
The following wouldnt' stop the screen from shutting off, but it should prevent the motor from shutting off:

Based on my Fusin kit, (Li Shui controller, Kingmeter LCD), in the wires between LCD and controller, there are probably two battery-votlage lines. One of them will lose battery voltage when the LCD is shutdown.

If you cut that one, and splice the controller end of that wire to the battery-voltage line that always stays on, the controller will never shut off (unless it has it's own internal timers/etc) until you disconnect the battery.
 
raw_bullitt said:
And did some more testing to get to the root of the problem and realized that the speedometer shows 0 km/h when it doesn't give pedal support, the moment it shows a speed on the screen the motor kicks in. It almost seems it uses the speedometer as a cadence sensor, but that's not the way it works right? Or then there's an error in the controller which causes it to not show the speed and not to give pedal support.
Click to expand...

You might check that the wheel speed sensor is mounted at the right distance from the wheel magnet. If it's too close or too far away, it might not read correctly at all speeds, if ever.

Also make sure you ahve the right wheel size/etc setup in the LCD.
 
raw_bullitt said:
And did some more testing to get to the root of the problem and realized that the speedometer shows 0 km/h when it doesn't give pedal support, the moment it shows a speed on the screen the motor kicks in. It almost seems it uses the speedometer as a cadence sensor, but that's not the way it works right? Or then there's an error in the controller which causes it to not show the speed and not to give pedal support.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

How is your battery and your battery connections? I know when my battery gets low I start losing mid range power. Also maybe try disconnecting the speed sensor all together, I rode mine for a few days without attaching the speed sensor and magnet so it is apparently not necessary.
 
I'm coming up to the 1000km mark with my cruzbike quest recumbent, and no issues to report.

The drive does make a quiet whirl when I'm riding with no power, but there's no added resistance to my pedaling, or the roll of the bike. I've picked up a month ago that I should stop pedaling and coast for a second, between the 'virtual cog' shifts of the SRAM dual drive. Makes for silent/no mechancial strain shifting [slaps own forehead].

No issues with calibration that I'm aware of. Either have feet off the pedals when powering up, or slow reversing action if I power on while moving, both actions seem to avoid the issues other users have reported. Haven't waited more than 2,3 seconds between powering on and applying power to the pedals.

Still leaving the bike power at level 2, and boost it to 3 or 4 when climbing a big hill. After 22km (travel time around 40min, average speed around 40km p/hr), the 48v 10A battery recharges in under and hour.

Still very happy with the drive [but touches wood as he tempts fate].

A couple of fresh pics: I've moved the battery to the front boom, as the new rear rack and seat brackets no longer accommodate it behind the seat. On the plus side, no more danger of my head catching on fire if the battery played up.

IMG_6388.JPG
IMG_6386.JPG

Sorry for the upside down images. MS Windows can't make up it's mind how to display embedded previews. Sheesh.
 
amberwolf said:
raw_bullitt said:
And did some more testing to get to the root of the problem and realized that the speedometer shows 0 km/h when it doesn't give pedal support, the moment it shows a speed on the screen the motor kicks in. It almost seems it uses the speedometer as a cadence sensor, but that's not the way it works right? Or then there's an error in the controller which causes it to not show the speed and not to give pedal support.
Click to expand...

You might check that the wheel speed sensor is mounted at the right distance from the wheel magnet. If it's too close or too far away, it might not read correctly at all speeds, if ever.

Also make sure you ahve the right wheel size/etc setup in the LCD.
Click to expand...

I removed the speedometer and immediately it worked fine, reconnected the speedometer and now it's working! I guess it wasn't well connected (the pins in the plug are very tiny). It's strange that the torque sensor works without speedometer, but if the speedometer is connected and not working properly it's actually able to disturb the torque sensor. My guess is that when the controller recognizes torque, but no speed it actually overrules the the motor and stops applying power. That would also explain why I did get a bit of a push when starting as it takes one turn of the wheel before the sensor would pass. If it doesn't get a signal from the sensor that the wheel turns it probably thinks we're not moving and overrules the torque sensor. Anyways... it works! Thanks for the tips
 
casainho said:
I am using the $50 BMSBAttery bottom bracket torque sensor: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/development/Torque_sensors--BMSBattery_torque_sensor.html
Click to expand...

$158 and limited to 24 and 36V.
 
tomjasz said:
casainho said:
I am using the $50 BMSBAttery bottom bracket torque sensor: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/development/Torque_sensors--BMSBattery_torque_sensor.html
Click to expand...

$158 and limited to 24 and 36V.
Click to expand...
Sorry, don't know what you mean.
The BMSBattery torque sensor works with a 5V input voltage comming from the motor controller. I am being using with battery pack of 24V and with other of 48V. I use it in 3 different ebikes I own.

The cost is $50 but it is not listed on BMSBattery site as a part, only included with a motor controller and LCD. You need to ask them by message and they will sell at unit - I did this a few times.
 
casainho said:
Sorry, don't know what you mean.
Click to expand...
Are you saying they will sell the BB part and no need for the rest?
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/689-b-b-torque-sensor-system-ebike-kit.html
 

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tomjasz said:
casainho said:
Sorry, don't know what you mean.
Click to expand...
Are you saying they will sell the BB part and no need for the rest?
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/689-b-b-torque-sensor-system-ebike-kit.html
Click to expand...
See here one e-mail that I sent and the answer:

 
Apparently the controller does not need the magnet sensor input to function and it only powers the speedometer.

I haven't been able to get my speed sensor working reliably. It seems sensitive to magnet to sensor distance and too close causes strange problems. I just removed it entirely and it works perfectly but doesn't display speed of course.

If you are having odd problems with the motor cutting out, just unplug the speed sensor and see if it returns to normal.

I ordered this display to replace my oversized VLCD5.

http://www.tsbicycle.net/products_detail/productId=132.html

Its similar to the XH18 but without the bulky twist grip section. You just use the buttons to adjust speed.
 
hobbyvac said:
Apparently the controller does not need the magnet sensor input to function and it only powers the speedometer.

I haven't been able to get my speed sensor working reliably. It seems sensitive to magnet to sensor distance and too close causes strange problems. I just removed it entirely and it works perfectly but doesn't display speed of course.

If you are having odd problems with the motor cutting out, just unplug the speed sensor and see if it returns to normal.

I ordered this display to replace my oversized VLCD5.

http://www.tsbicycle.net/products_detail/productId=132.html

Its similar to the XH18 but without the bulky twist grip section. You just use the buttons to adjust speed.
Click to expand...

Hi, where did you buy it? Thanks
 
hobbyvac said:
Apparently the controller does not need the magnet sensor input to function and it only powers the speedometer.

I haven't been able to get my speed sensor working reliably. It seems sensitive to magnet to sensor distance and too close causes strange problems. I just removed it entirely and it works perfectly but doesn't display speed of course.

If you are having odd problems with the motor cutting out, just unplug the speed sensor and see if it returns to normal.

I ordered this display to replace my oversized VLCD5.

http://www.tsbicycle.net/products_detail/productId=132.html

Its similar to the XH18 but without the bulky twist grip section. You just use the buttons to adjust speed.
Click to expand...

I really like that small low profile unit! It apparently does not have all the buttons though ("i" and "headlight" buttons appear to be missing). Do you know if the original vlcd5 thumb control unit plugs in to add those 2 button functions, and also if it allows a throttle to be attached (I don't care about the brakes). I also wonder if it will allow the settings to be changed, especially without the "i" button.
 
asterduc said:
John and Cecil said:
Maybe there are different stock chainrings.
Click to expand...

I didn't yet realize, but my bikes have 1/8" chain.
The TSDZ2 chainring is most probably designed for 3/32" chain.
Click to expand...

I just checked and yes, the TSDZ2 front 42T is definitely for 3/32”. I tried it with a short length of 3/32” first:

40A600DA-EE89-409C-8998-6E6A75FB3385.jpeg

Given that the TSDZ2 has a 50.2mm chainline, and my rear sprocket on my Sturmey Archer X-RF8(W) hub is about 43mm, I’m wondering if a 6-7-8 speed 3/32” chain is actually more “flexible” sideways than an 1/8” chain. (I read somewhere online that advances are being made on derailleur chains, and not on single-speed chains.)

So I switched my S-A rear sprocket from 1/8” to 3/32” (saved 10 grams!) and chain too (saved 46 grams!).
2488E4AB-83F0-4DDE-9B10-CDEB176226A3.jpeg

B3964984-ACDA-4592-9C16-C8C2ECDD78FD.jpeg


Summary: it seems to work fine, no perceptable difference.
 
John and Cecil" post_id I ordered this display to replace my oversized VLCD5. http://www.tsbicycle.net/products_detail/productId=132.html Its similar to the XH18 but without the bulky twist grip section. You just use the buttons to adjust speed. [/quote said:
I really like that small low profile unit! It apparently does not have all the buttons though ("i" and "headlight" buttons appear to be missing). Do you know if the original vlcd5 thumb control unit plugs in to add those 2 button functions, and also if it allows a throttle to be attached (I don't care about the brakes). I also wonder if it will allow the settings to be changed, especially without the "i" button.
Click to expand...


I ordered the VLCD6 display from Aliexpress but have not received it yet.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/okfeet-TSDZ2-mid-drive-motor-e-bike-kit-36-48V-250-350-500W-tongsheng-Torque-Sensor/3521021_32855053248.html

I doubt if it works with throttle or has a headlight switch, neither of which I need.
 
Maybe it does support a throttle, a seller on aliexpress has an entire package including motor and throttle and vlcd6 (but no brake handles)...
 
the TSDZ2 will work with a variety of display, jusst as someone mentioned, the controller was probably developed by kuteng, (probably spelling wrong, just typing a quick post, sorry) and it is pretty universal.

You can wire up from an 8 pin controller to use the throttle with XH-18, or even the 850c used with BAFANG, or this vldc-6, display mentioned above. There are slight problems sometimes however,and it is much easier to burn up your controller, so beware... im working on this stuff right now, and after I finish testing new displays etc, I was gonna fill everyone in =).

Lately, I saved the controller profiles for every type of motor, and have been comparing them to discover what different values mean. I combine this with what little TongSheng will tell me (they are stingy with info) and I am looking to get everything and anything we can out of this little motor =)

Thanks to everyone for their contributions around here!!
 
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