Tesla Model 3

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Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Jan 20 2018 10:33pm

There is a subtle difference between re-investing your profits to expand your business (Amazon),..
....and using all your revenue to ofset an ever increasing current debt (Tesla).
One is a sustainable business strategy, the other is not !
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Jan 20 2018 10:59pm

That might look that way to someone who loves to spin negative shit. But they are an expanding business I would expect their debt to expand as they expand at first. There is no easy way to tool up for something as big as modle 3 production and the world's largest battery at the same time. Hilhater even when they are massively profitable you will still deny it as you always spew negative shit about new tech and change in general.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Jan 21 2018 5:27pm

You can think of it a negative sh1t , i will simply keep being rational and calling it as it appears.
Remember your confidence about Tesla never missing a production target ?..and my "negative sh1t" about 20,000 Mod3's a month by last December.??
You need to wear that welding mask more ...to prevent you being dazzeled by all the "shiny new" things. :wink:
PS..i am used to change....i do it with my underwear every month...weather they need it or not ! :o
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Jan 21 2018 11:38pm

I have a model S in my driveway but I was not dazzled by the shiny. It's a loaner for the last 3 months from a nice person I consult for.

Nonetheless my wife and I ordered 2 model 3s knowing we would know someone who wants the second. The biggest reason we wanted a model 3 was the simple fact they will have the most range for the amount of money. The second part is Tesla quality is pretty decent... Meaning they don't have all the charger failures of a Soul EV or the battery degradation of the early leafs.

Tesla is the only company who pushed for 100% EVs and does not sell any ICE powered crap we don't want. I am not worried in the slightest they are burning through cash as they have 400k+ reservations and that number is growing even when they try to undersell the 3
Tesla is a very smart but secretive company there is very much likely things going on that the public doesn't hear about and they might have more reasons that make sense not to push production ramps up to fast... But they are already producing more 3s then S and Xs per week combined. This number is growing quite fast. They are also getting SEMI and Roadster orders at a amazing rate putting more money into the company. Until the first gigafactory is finished I don't expect profitability as well with all the growth they will get to a point where profits are INSANE! Anyone who thinks they should stay and just sell S and Xs is retarded that's not Elons vision and that would limit them for about .5% of the potential profits they are heading for!

Other OEMs are shitting bricks right now! It's a good thing.
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RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by lester12483 » Apr 08 2018 10:57am

Awesome cars, poorly run company. Where else can a company get away with never making a profit, and losing -$4000 per car?

https://www.tflcar.com/2018/04/tesla-fi ... 8-results/
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Ianhill » Apr 08 2018 11:52am

The way I see it is he wanted to revolutionise transport with EV and it's a fair point the modern car has evolved but many of the manufacturer's are dragging their feet, I think the mistake was made with the push for autopilot and a luxury sector car he should of stuck with sports cars and evolved them.

I know it's easier to make money on larger priced cars just look at the value of BMW and Mercedes etc, but the transition to a run of the mill mainstream car is still difficult when the general public just want a car that does A2B and are to busy with their 12 hour shifts to take advantage of such a luxury car and don't make enough cash in the first place to afford to run it.

Even the model 3 is well out of my price point and with the lack of support to any car that has been in an accident and then not payed tesla a sizable fee for it to be inspected and put back under its service plan is a joke. This them means the car has no autopilot features or use of command apps etc not sure on super charging as this is a chargeable item I suppose they would still provide it for revenue.

The stock fluctuates like mad the investors must be getting crabby by now but no they sign him up a new pay deal, I get it he is like a god in the eyes of some now but it's getting crazy now there cult status going on and theres a smell of scientology
around it all.

I really wish him the best but I think the EV car that cracks the market will be small simple and good range no ludicrous mode just a plain old car cheap and easily serviceable, The model t/ beetle/ Citroen 2cv/ golf gti all these used a bare basic principle and sometimes less really is more when it's functionality stand's above its show off factor and that's why BYD auto sold more products but made less revenue to me they are the ones making a difference selling smaller margin cars that clean city's up not just take rich folks on jolly's.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 08 2018 1:58pm

lester12483 wrote:
Apr 08 2018 10:57am
Awesome cars, poorly run company. Where else can a company get away with never making a profit, and losing -$4000 per car?

https://www.tflcar.com/2018/04/tesla-fi ... 8-results/
This is 100% not true. They make ~23% profit form each car but they use all of that money and more to grow the company.
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RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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lester12483   10 kW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by lester12483 » Apr 09 2018 11:56am

Ok so why are they deep in the red then?

How will they ever make that money back to pay bond holders?
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Apr 09 2018 12:34pm

lester12483 wrote:
Apr 09 2018 11:56am
Ok so why are they deep in the red then?
See above; all that money is going into the next product.
--bill von

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by st35326 » Apr 09 2018 1:16pm

lester12483 wrote:
Apr 08 2018 10:57am
Awesome cars, poorly run company. Where else can a company get away with never making a profit, and losing -$4000 per car?

https://www.tflcar.com/2018/04/tesla-fi ... 8-results/
Amazon went without making profit for many YEARS, seems to have worked out pretty well for them. People never truly accept when the world changes and they are forced to alter thier beliefs (must be like watching Ford in the beginning). Fasten your safety belt, you are about to see Tesla become one of the fastest growing, most valuable corporations in the US, all without paying anybody much of a dividend.

Name one person who's bet against Elon Musk and won?

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by TheBeastie » Apr 12 2018 2:11am

st35326 wrote:
Apr 09 2018 1:16pm
lester12483 wrote:
Apr 08 2018 10:57am
Awesome cars, poorly run company. Where else can a company get away with never making a profit, and losing -$4000 per car?

https://www.tflcar.com/2018/04/tesla-fi ... 8-results/
Amazon went without making profit for many YEARS, seems to have worked out pretty well for them. People never truly accept when the world changes and they are forced to alter thier beliefs (must be like watching Ford in the beginning). Fasten your safety belt, you are about to see Tesla become one of the fastest growing, most valuable corporations in the US, all without paying anybody much of a dividend.

Name one person who's bet against Elon Musk and won?
Everyone loves to compare Amazon business model and its famous continuous financial losses to other companies like Tesla, but I think its got some serious differences. Amazon quite literally has its fingers in everything, from Cloud/AI to food-supermarkets and pizza delivery via Amazon Prime. Tesla is pretty much just cars and Solar panels.

There are some equally famous people who are directly betting against Elon/Tesla like Jim Chanos.
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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 12 2018 10:31am

Tesla is an energy company a car company a battery company and Elon him self has his fingers in a lot of pots. I don't see them failing. This fear of them going bankrupt happens every time they bring a new car out. Mark my words you will be thinking they are going bankrupt 3 more times in the next 2-3 years as they bring out 3 more vehicles.
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RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by lester12483 » Apr 12 2018 4:08pm

Amazon and Tesla are two very different companies! You cant compare the two.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 12 2018 11:34pm

lester12483 wrote:
Apr 12 2018 4:08pm
Amazon and Tesla are two very different companies! You cant compare the two.
Not saying you can. But Tesla is making money they just re-invest all of it into more growth this thing would not work any other way.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Apr 13 2018 6:13am

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 12 2018 11:34pm
..... But Tesla is making money they just re-invest all of it into more growth this thing would not work any other way.
There is a difference between a PROFIT, and reinvesting money from sales income.
Every company re-invests for improvments, future products , growth, R&D, maintenance, etc etc. That is a given in order to simply remain in business for the future.
However, most successful companies make sufficient MARGIN to be able to fulfil those re-investments, and still book a PROFIT to keep investors satisfied.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Punx0r » Apr 13 2018 9:34am

No, a company can decide to spend money on all sorts of strategic things (not overheads) instead of paying a dividend to shareholders. This could be a high percentage of turnover on R&D or building a new factory or buying up other businesses.

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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 13 2018 9:40am

Yeah paying dividends to share holders does NOTHING to help the company move forward.
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RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Punx0r » Apr 13 2018 11:24am

Theoretically it could help the business by allowing it to raise share capital to fund growth, but Amazon et al have proved the speculation of future dividends can be enough to do that. In reality, yes, dividends do seem to be simply a drain on money that would otherwise be used to improve a business.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 13 2018 2:43pm

By the way Tesla has shown a profit at least once I know of and it was back at the end of the 1st 1/4 in 2013 after the model S was being delivered. They could have stayed their showing "profits" but that would keep them as a small company for ever. The only way to get where they want to go is to go back into the red and make more cars.
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RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Apr 13 2018 11:18pm

Apparently Mr Musk doesnt share your view of Teslas current financial performance..
Early this morning Elon tweeted when exactly the company will be profitable and cash flow positive. ...."Tesla will be profitable & cash flow+ in Q3 & Q4, so obviously no need to raise money," Elon Musk wrote on Twitter. ....
Which implies that he doesnt consider it to be cash flow positive or profitable currently.
But this is just more of Musk's "positive spin" to keep his investors and creditors on side.!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Punx0r » Apr 14 2018 4:53am

No, it's not currently profitable or cashflow-positive. No one was arguing it is! The argument is it isn't because it's spending every dollar (or more) it earns growing the business.

Personally I hope that's the case and would like to see it succeed. It's finances and outlook certainly don't look worse than other large car manufacturers.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 14 2018 5:09pm

Yeah this is such a dumb argument.

I meen how do you build factories and increase car and battery production without investing money?
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RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Apr 14 2018 6:42pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 14 2018 5:09pm
I meen how do you build factories and increase car and battery production without investing money?
Point being, (as i said before). most successful companies do re-invest money, AND post a profit, AND pay Dividends, Bonds, share buy backs, etc, And often build a cash reserve as well for future acquisitions.
At best, Tesla are only doing the investment part of that, and some experts state that they are doing that mostly by using borrowed money (Bond issues etc) ,
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 14 2018 10:30pm

Most companies don't show a profit for a while after starting a large expansion.

But as I said Tesla has shown a profit at least once after an expansion and it was after the model s launch.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 14 2018 11:36pm

Who even cares about profits?

In California at least, it seems like 10% of the cars I see on the road are Model S or Model X. This is what matters, the rest is bean-counter bullshit.
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