FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

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2old   100 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by 2old » Apr 14 2018 8:42pm

Maybe "being there" means attending.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Apr 15 2018 3:58am

Yes, we attending SEA OTTER CLASSIC fair. Our booth number is 471.
We have 3 bikes on the show.
Welcome friends come to have a fun!
IMG_20180415_165542.jpg

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tecneek » Apr 16 2018 3:36pm

FREYebikes wrote:
Apr 13 2018 10:54am
We have a test ride in mountains today, I also ride a bike in M size. I'm not tall, the bike to me is a little big, but the seat tube height is OK to ride on.
We ride in mountain and try to ride in the area without good road condition or even without road. I think there is few bike can ride in the terrain. Thanks to the good power motor, throttle to help start in some condition and 6km push mode by pressing "_" button also helps much when we reach somewhere there is no path for riding. It is really a good bike to conquer all kind of terrain.
To my experience, there is not many bikes can ride in all kinds terrain or it may require a good capacity and skills to the riders. But to AM1000 rider, it will become more easier.
Below some photos we ride in mountains today. You can see I'm a little woman. : )
Later we will try to upload some video for you have a look.

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Ivy, if you had kept your sun shades on, you would have climbed that rocky water trail with the quickness.. :-)

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Apr 23 2018 10:58am

Hey Frey Bikes,

Looks like Bosch has now added in a hidden in the frame battery design.

Available summer 2018...

Regards,
Fred
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rumme   100 kW

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by rumme » Apr 23 2018 11:25pm

One thing Ive learned :

Bosch systems = always overpriced.

Ive seen ebikes with Bosch systems, that cost $3000 or more, using 36 volt setups and batterys with pretty low AHs capacity.

Yeah, Bosch systems look nice, but IMHO, they are outrageously overpriced.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Animalector » Apr 24 2018 12:06am

It's not really the motor that defines the bike cost. In my experience suspension and drivetrain make up the bulk of the cost. For example. Consider around $500 for front suspension, $300 for rear suspension, $400 for drivetrain, and $200 for brakes.. there's half the cost right there. Then you have the motor, frame, wheel set (another big ticket item) assembly and of course profit.

In short, you will not find a quality ebike for $3k regardless of brand because of the cost of the parts. If you do they have chosen inferior parts.

Andy

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by 3Dkiller » Apr 24 2018 10:47am

I think most of us prefer the Bafang motors instead of Bosch.. wich is way overpriced for what you truly get. Just like the guy above mention
it.

What we would like to see ?.

Frame battery 17+ ah 50v 14s (Sanyo , Panasonic cells)
IGH <---
Good quality brakes, Good quality suspensions.
27.5 and 29 inch wheels would be great.
Option for onroad and ofroad tires.
Adjustable handlebar stem
3 different frame size.

rumme   100 kW

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by rumme » Apr 25 2018 5:55pm

Animalector wrote:
Apr 24 2018 12:06am
I
In short, you will not find a quality ebike for $3k regardless of brand because of the cost of the parts. If you do they have chosen inferior parts.

Andy
Disagree....mainly because everyones idea of quality will differ. For most riders, a $1800 RAD ROVER is certainly solid enough quality to perform as they need. A sub 3 thousand dollar ebike can have solid enough quality, at a fair price if the ebike is NOT gonna be used for downhill racing, severe trail riding, jumping ,etc. My $3000 custom made ebike can do 63mph top speed, if I want it to..and has plenty of torque and is very comfortable riding with front and rear adjustable suspension. Sure, it is a copy of a $7000 stealth bomber..and im sure the bomber has some nicer features, but those features did not warrant me spending $4000 more . In fact, my ebike will keep up with a stealth bomber as far as speed. Now, a stealth bomber may be better equipped to do huge jumps and ride over rocks, etc...but I dont have any desire to do that stuff.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Animalector » Apr 25 2018 6:12pm

fair call. But these motors are designed for mountain biking (generally speaking) and if you're climbing a mountain and riding back down again, usually there is a certain level of quality you need to ensure the components will not prematurely fail, or be unsafe. There are cheap forks, that might get up and down again on the track, but how long will they last??

It's always a trade off. My pricing examples were actually 'entry level' Rockshox, you can pay much much more for higher spec parts.

If you're just looking for outright speed, this is not the motor to choose. I do get your point, so I guess it comes down to whether something is fit-for-purpose. Serious mountain bikers 'generally' have to spend more to amke sure the components work as expected, and won't fail over time.

Andy

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Apr 26 2018 1:42am

You guys I got the AM1000 for under $3k, not allowed to say how much exactly but also upgraded the fork to the Lyrik. Had my own seat and the only thing I truly upgraded on my own, were the wheels. I prefer Stan's No Tubes and got a set of Sentry Wheels with Hope Pro 4 Boost Hubs. On a side note I took almost 5lbs of rotational weight off! So yes the wheels were not the good but everything else is pretty good. Shimano XT 1 x 11, Dual Piston brakes, 5 spare derailleur hangers.

My desire for an M600 build would be to use a smart app for your phone to control it as I have scratched screens on single track. Got a nice gouge last week in Moab on the Slickrock!

Fred
Animalector wrote:
Apr 25 2018 6:12pm
fair call. But these motors are designed for mountain biking (generally speaking) and if you're climbing a mountain and riding back down again, usually there is a certain level of quality you need to ensure the components will not prematurely fail, or be unsafe. There are cheap forks, that might get up and down again on the track, but how long will they last??

It's always a trade off. My pricing examples were actually 'entry level' Rockshox, you can pay much much more for higher spec parts.

If you're just looking for outright speed, this is not the motor to choose. I do get your point, so I guess it comes down to whether something is fit-for-purpose. Serious mountain bikers 'generally' have to spend more to amke sure the components work as expected, and won't fail over time.

Andy

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Apr 28 2018 10:20pm

Hi Friends. Come back China for several days from US. We think it's a helpful trip to us to learn more and communicate with customers directly. if we are welcomed, I think we will continue to forward SEA OTTER CLASSIC in coming years, Bring some bikes and have a meeting with you! Below is a photo of AM1000 in one of mountain top o SEA OTTER CLASSIC.
IMG_0102+%281%29.jpg
Now we are busy for preparing China International Bicycle fair will be held in Shanghai during 6-9th,May.
We will take out some fresh bikes on the show. and Bike come with M500/600 system is under developing. As the Bafang battery tube is not ready yet, now we are making some demo bikes come with outter battery firstly. the new system bike will come out around middle of May I think.

I just went through your post recently days and give some quick answers following:
1. About smaller gear for AM1000, it is possible to do following from our side. Bafang prefer to give a standard offer for their easier work. so far, they only supply 44T as standard. We have found out the Bafang Chain ring supplier who supply the chain ring system for Bafang Ultra, that we told can be customized different teeth. base on the 130CBD, the smaller can match well is 40T. We will try it following.

2. About fat bike and mid fat bike convert. I also heard from some other customer that maybe it is possible to make the fat bike 4.0" compatible with 3.0" mid fat wheel. this idea we need to try, maybe we find some mid size fork, rim and so on. I just checked that the diameter to 27.5*3.0" is similar to 26*4.0" wheel set. if it is possible to change the bike can only change the wheel, it seems a good idea.
The bike suspension travel will be 100-120mm for the bike, can't be more as AM1000.
How do you think about it?
Now we are thinking to make the FAT1000 in bulk in coming 2 months. We are checking how to make it will be best to the market.
Welcome any of your ideas for our reference.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by agedashidofu » May 01 2018 9:40am

FREYebikes wrote:
Apr 28 2018 10:20pm
Hi Friends. Come back China for several days from US. We think it's a helpful trip to us to learn more and communicate with customers directly. if we are welcomed, I think we will continue to forward SEA OTTER CLASSIC in coming years, Bring some bikes and have a meeting with you! Below is a photo of AM1000 in one of mountain top o SEA OTTER CLASSIC.
IMG_0102+%281%29.jpg

Now we are busy for preparing China International Bicycle fair will be held in Shanghai during 6-9th,May.
We will take out some fresh bikes on the show. and Bike come with M500/600 system is under developing. As the Bafang battery tube is not ready yet, now we are making some demo bikes come with outter battery firstly. the new system bike will come out around middle of May I think.

I just went through your post recently days and give some quick answers following:
1. About smaller gear for AM1000, it is possible to do following from our side. Bafang prefer to give a standard offer for their easier work. so far, they only supply 44T as standard. We have found out the Bafang Chain ring supplier who supply the chain ring system for Bafang Ultra, that we told can be customized different teeth. base on the 130CBD, the smaller can match well is 40T. We will try it following.

2. About fat bike and mid fat bike convert. I also heard from some other customer that maybe it is possible to make the fat bike 4.0" compatible with 3.0" mid fat wheel. this idea we need to try, maybe we find some mid size fork, rim and so on. I just checked that the diameter to 27.5*3.0" is similar to 26*4.0" wheel set. if it is possible to change the bike can only change the wheel, it seems a good idea.
The bike suspension travel will be 100-120mm for the bike, can't be more as AM1000.
How do you think about it?
Now we are thinking to make the FAT1000 in bulk in coming 2 months. We are checking how to make it will be best to the market.
Welcome any of your ideas for our reference.
Ivy,

This is fantastic news on the M600 development
One feedback is that it would be great if the overall look can be as stealthy as possible (battery inside frame will really help)

Some of us don’t want to be seen riding an ebike - which I’m sure a lot of people here can relate :-)

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » May 03 2018 2:14am

We are having a "sister model" with AM1000 in same Geometry buy different outlook design, would like to share with friends here. some photos following, how do you think about it?
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IMG_20180503_143332.jpg
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IMG_20180503_143634.jpg

Rube   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Rube » May 03 2018 2:25am

Very nice but battery in the same colour would make it look better.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by nieles » May 03 2018 4:00am

so what's the difference exactly? the only difference i see is in the corner of the frame at Top tube / seat tube. there is a small triangle created on the yellow frame i didn't see on the previous pictures.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Daxxie » May 03 2018 2:19pm

Bafang showed some interesting designs at the China International Bicycle & Motor Fair.

M500 Full suspension

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M500 hardtail

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M800
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Frey, if you can make something that looks this good I would order 10 of each please!
Last edited by Daxxie on May 03 2018 3:38pm, edited 1 time in total.

leelorr   100 W

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by leelorr » May 03 2018 3:25pm

Those are some beautiful (and stealthy) bikes!

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by hoojsn » May 06 2018 12:12pm

Thanks for photo sharing. The Bike looks wonderful and I am itch over to add them to my collection.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by 18650 » May 09 2018 3:09am

@FREYbikes,

will there be a street legal version for the EU, with a certificate of conformity? i.e. can the 600W motor be changed for the 500W for the EU?

How is progress on the new frame, it should be available soon?

Best regards,
18650

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Velophil » May 09 2018 4:13am

I am also interested in this bike. I am waiting for information on weight and price ...wait and see...

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by FREYebikes » May 11 2018 7:52am

Hi friends, we also attended China bicycle show and come back yesterday.
New full suspension model come with Bafang M500/600 is under producing now. it will be available in late of this month or early June.

We developed the model come with Hailong 52pcs battery firstly considerate all kinds of factors. At present, no good integrated battery solution available to use right now. some are not security and most are small capacity only about 40pcs 18650 cells to load. About the Bafang battery solution, it is also not very ideal we think. the battery tube is not thick and strong enough for mountain bike to our opinion, and the capacity is not big, only 40pcs cell about. and so far not sure whether it works well on lock and unlock.

That's why we go firstly step with present battery solution at beginning, and next few months, we will develop something by ourselves. in this way, we will know how to make it better base on the demands, just as how we develop AM1000. Now base on the frame construction experience, we are confident that we can make out the new bike in reliable performance at beginning.

Here I would like to show some info for our new model, main specs with as following:
Motor: Bafang M500/600 system; 36V 250W for M500 and 48V 500W for M600;
Battery: 48V 14AH for 500W version and 36V 13AH for 250W version as a standard offer;
Battery case come with 52pcs
Front fork: ROCKSHOX YARI 160mm travel, 110 boost;
Rear shock: ROCKSHOX DELUXE RL with 160mm travel for rear part;
Tire: MAXXIS 27.5*2.4" and 27.5*2.8" for choice;
Brake system and group set can base on the market demands.

Following a drawing for you have a general idea. Base on the effective geometry earlier on AM1000, we make the chainline shorter for M500/600, that is about 460mm possible to do. how do you think about it?
QQ图片20180511204837.png

rumme   100 kW

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by rumme » May 11 2018 11:03am

Frey, am looking forward to buying 1 of your ebikes as soon as you get them solidly designed.

I noticed you said the 48 volt system will be 500 watt rated. So basically we are looking at a fairly low powered ebike .

My suggestion : Offer a setup where the owner can buy a ebike, that offers a dual mode, so they can easily push a button to use 500 watts of power for legal road use, and then push another button to offer 1000-2000 watts of power for offroad, trail use.

You must understand, that many of your customers are gonna be from the U.S.A.....and here in America, people are often overweight with a average weight of 180-200 lbs for a adult male. For many of us that wish to buy your ebike, 500 watts of power is not nearly enough , and we need a option for 1000-2000 watts of power . Im a perfect example. I want to buy 1 of your ebikes , but I weigh 210 lbs , and 500 watts of power is not enough for me. If you only offer a ebike with 500 watts max power, you are gonna lose alot of potential customers, including myself.

By offering a dual mode setting of 500 watts on road use and 1000-2000 watts off road use , all the legalities are now on the owner and it is their own responsibility to use the ebike according to their local laws and individual needs.

Also, offer a 48 volt/ 20 AH battery pack option for a little more money. Restricting your ebike to 500 watts and a 14 AH battery pack , will hurt your sales potential IMHO.

I think alot of people wont mind paying a few hundred more dollars, to have a upgraded 20 AH - 48 volt battery pack that is capable of putting out 40 amps max to a mid drive motor that can handle 20 second bursts of 1000-2000 watts of power when its needed. If you can design this type of power in a clean sleek looking ebike, with decent suspension
{ not the best, but not the worst} and keep total price between $2000- $3000 shipped, I think you will have a big seller. The mid drive ebike market, is still waiting for a solid performing and good looking ebike to come to the masses at a fair price. Most of the BOSCH, YAMAHA mid drive ebikes are just to expensive with their $3500- $8000 price tags, so this is what you are competing with .

As far as designing a 36 volt ebike AND a 48 volt ebike , why not just stick with the 48 volt battery system ? IMHO, 36 volts is underpowered AND most buyers are gonna be happier with MORE voltage and capacity . Ive never met a ebiker that said to me " GEE, I WISH I WOULDA WENT WITH A BATTERY PACK THAT HAD LESS VOLTAGE, LESS POWER AND LESS CAPACITY" .

48 volt battery should be the standard , especially for us OVERWEIGHT American buyers.

Just a friendly suggestion.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by leelorr » May 11 2018 1:09pm

Do you have the specs for the weight and the price yet, or maybe a link to them?
To be honest, with the bike in this initial state (500 watts, standard frame mounted "non-hidden" battery, etc), I don't see enough difference between this bike and the AM1000 to justify buying it instead of the AM1000 with the higher power level unless this bike is much lighter or less money.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by rumme » May 11 2018 2:27pm

One other thought. It would be great, if you could manufacture the battery pack, so the plastic shell can easily be taken off and the LI-ION batteries can be individually replaced if 1 or more of them go bad/ malfunction. To many battery packs may only have or 2 cells go bad, and the whole battery pack gets scrapped because its to difficult to replace those 1 or 2 cells in the pack.

Frey, dont be in a rush to bring a mid drive ebike to market, Keep getting advice and thinking out designs/ improvements so that when production is finally ready, you are 100% confident you have a design that is cutting edge , user friendly , great power/torque/capacity at a fair price for the masses. The mid drive ebike market is CRYING for this.

As you can see, there is alot of interest in what you are trying to do, and we are more then happy to tell you what we want in a mid drive ebike at a fair price.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by FREYebikes » May 11 2018 10:15pm

Hi rumme,

Thank you for your commends. From your description, I think you prefer a big power system like our AM1000 has the Ultra 1000W come with 48V 21AH. the new M500/600 is not so big as 1000W power, it aim at 250-500W with a lighter and smaller design compare with 1000W Ulltra. for good power demand, AM1000 is still the first choice.

We try to make some balance between weight, performance and cost.
At the same time, we are developing a better integrated bike with a good capacity in coming 3 months.
We are not in rush, we just do what we can do present and coming months.

Thank you for all your attentions and advice. We are listening and checking what possible to do for us. and how a good bike that we can develop out and supply to the market.
rumme wrote:
May 11 2018 11:03am
Frey, am looking forward to buying 1 of your ebikes as soon as you get them solidly designed.

I noticed you said the 48 volt system will be 500 watt rated. So basically we are looking at a fairly low powered ebike .

My suggestion : Offer a setup where the owner can buy a ebike, that offers a dual mode, so they can easily push a button to use 500 watts of power for legal road use, and then push another button to offer 1000-2000 watts of power for offroad, trail use.

You must understand, that many of your customers are gonna be from the U.S.A.....and here in America, people are often overweight with a average weight of 180-200 lbs for a adult male. For many of us that wish to buy your ebike, 500 watts of power is not nearly enough , and we need a option for 1000-2000 watts of power . Im a perfect example. I want to buy 1 of your ebikes , but I weigh 210 lbs , and 500 watts of power is not enough for me. If you only offer a ebike with 500 watts max power, you are gonna lose alot of potential customers, including myself.

By offering a dual mode setting of 500 watts on road use and 1000-2000 watts off road use , all the legalities are now on the owner and it is their own responsibility to use the ebike according to their local laws and individual needs.

Also, offer a 48 volt/ 20 AH battery pack option for a little more money. Restricting your ebike to 500 watts and a 14 AH battery pack , will hurt your sales potential IMHO.

I think alot of people wont mind paying a few hundred more dollars, to have a upgraded 20 AH - 48 volt battery pack that is capable of putting out 40 amps max to a mid drive motor that can handle 20 second bursts of 1000-2000 watts of power when its needed. If you can design this type of power in a clean sleek looking ebike, with decent suspension
{ not the best, but not the worst} and keep total price between $2000- $3000 shipped, I think you will have a big seller. The mid drive ebike market, is still waiting for a solid performing and good looking ebike to come to the masses at a fair price. Most of the BOSCH, YAMAHA mid drive ebikes are just to expensive with their $3500- $8000 price tags, so this is what you are competing with .

As far as designing a 36 volt ebike AND a 48 volt ebike , why not just stick with the 48 volt battery system ? IMHO, 36 volts is underpowered AND most buyers are gonna be happier with MORE voltage and capacity . Ive never met a ebiker that said to me " GEE, I WISH I WOULDA WENT WITH A BATTERY PACK THAT HAD LESS VOLTAGE, LESS POWER AND LESS CAPACITY" .

48 volt battery should be the standard , especially for us OVERWEIGHT American buyers.

Just a friendly suggestion.

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