Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

LockH · Mar 11, 2018

^^ Hehe... Watts it termed? "unassisted cycle" NO NO NO. (I'm MUCH to addicted to assist... hehe) The idea with any tube or cycleway structure is to EXTEND ranges per charge... and separate "traffic" for safety and to "speed up"... and to save money maintaining road surfaces. And etc... Yes?

LockH · Mar 11, 2018

Kingfish said:
I am suddenly reminded of Genesis II (TV 1973) & Planet Earth (TV 1974), both both created by Gene Roddenberry. Sadly I cannot locate a youtube clip of those terribly painful productions that display the concept of a shuttle-car travelling through underground tubes at high speed.

Hehe... Impatient much? :lol:

[youtube]Ew0eEl6N-30[/youtube]

amberwolf · Mar 11, 2018

Practical for entertainment purposes, but not everyday local transportation uses.

For that, the cycle path has to have the same access to every driveway/parking lot/shopping center/etc that roads do.

I can't imagine a cycle path built that way by anyone that builds such things, because they want to keep them away from the roads and cars...which means the cycles can't go where they need to as transportation, which is where the cars are already also going.

Instead, they'd build it as a "freeway" type of thing, where cycles can go long distances "uninterrupted" but with only intermittent access to the outside world. So that means to use it for transportation, it's just like a car freeway--one has to get to it, then once on it and somewhere before or after one's destination, get off of it, then travel on teh roads with the cars anyway to get to the actual destination.

Rather than spending money on a cycleway, spend it on making the roads usably safe for *all* kinds of traffic, together.

Most of doing that is changing people's attitudes and training them how to operate their vehicles (of whatever size) in a safe manner with eveyrone else that's out there.

I expect that to take a LOT of money and even more time. A few hundred years might do it.

Raisedeyebrows · Mar 11, 2018

Protected bike lanes with 4 ft concrete barriers would make be feel 90% safer on roadways, of course the demise of the internal combustion vehicle would eliminate those nasty fumes cyclists are subjected to even with barriers.

LockH · Mar 11, 2018

amberwolf said:
Practical for entertainment purposes, but not everyday local transportation uses.

Hehe... Yah. Exactly. While the tube/"hyperloop"/etc might be handy for long-distances at "high" speeds, the majority of folks most of the time are interested in short, urban distances... Recent press reports suggest most travels are like 10 miles or less... most of the time.

"Rather than spending money on a cycleway, spend it on making the roads usably safe for *all* kinds of traffic, together."

... while I suggest no more vehicles having one operator with X empty seats... "Large" ie "heavy" requiring lots of energy to accelerate... :wink:

Dauntless · Mar 11, 2018

Hillhater said:
An enclosed "cycleway" with a nice steady 20mph forced breeze blowing constantly in each direction (divided tunnel) would make even unassisted cycle traffic easy and practical.

Holland tunnel like. I can only imagine how the Chunnel works. But even in California a high tech bike pathway would run into a wall of disbelief in the Pollyannaishness of it. But maybe Lock's reminder of the electrics running through might encourage people to think there might be a practical value to it.

LockH said:
Kingfish said:

I am suddenly reminded. . . .

Click to expand...

Hehe... Impatient much? :lol:

You made him wait 4 years for that response.

LockH said:
amberwolf said:

Practical for entertainment purposes, but not everyday local transportation uses.

Click to expand...

Hehe... Yah. Exactly. While the tube/"hyperloop"/etc might be handy for long-distances at "high" speeds, the majority of folks most of the time are interested in short, urban distances... Recent press reports suggest most travels are like 10 miles or less... most of the time.

"Rather than spending money on a cycleway, spend it on making the roads usably safe for *all* kinds of traffic, together."

But if 10% of the transportation was the longer distances, this could save more than 10% of the resources, the environmental damage, etc. You have to look at the value in the big picture. Not to mention that the advancement of the technology moves in the direction of finding ways to use it for shorter distances.

There's no reason to expect anything to be 'All things to all men.' That's the same argument people would make against electric bikes. Unless of course you agree with them in dismissing electric bikes.
You made him wait 4 years for that response.

LockH · Mar 12, 2018

^^ Hehe... "You made him wait 4 years for that response."

It was only posted to YT on Sep 9, 2016... :wink:

"... look at the value in the big picture..." ... Thought the expression "the devil is in the details" might be relevant also...

"There's no reason to expect anything to be 'All things to all men.' "... Understand. Same as all folks are equal (it's just that some are more equal than others...)

Dauntless · May 11, 2018

http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/11/technology/elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel/index.html

LockH · May 11, 2018

^^ Hehe... Funny Guy that Elon... looks nothing like boring, :lol:

fechter · May 11, 2018

Boring tunnels below LA to bypass the choked freeways would be wonderful, in theory. As a former mining engineer, I can tell you making an underground tunnel like that is not so easy. Primary issue is water. Dig down deep enough and you will hit it almost everywhere. Flooding tunnels are not fun to work in. Even after you install a concrete liner, it still leaks and you have to constantly pump out the water.
Another problem is rock mechanics. We had a tunnel boring machine very similar to Elon's and after it made a stretch of tunnel, it got stuck because the rock 'flowed' behind it, making the tunnel just a little too small to back the machine out. Oh what a mess that was. By now they must have better technology that can deal with this, but there are still many issues.

amberwolf · May 12, 2018

Arent there some TBMs that automagically cast and set reinforced concrete segments in the tunnel walls as they bore? I thought I recalled that from some of the tv shows Ive seen on the subject.....

Hillhater · May 13, 2018

The TBMs do set the segments behind them as they progress, but the lining segments are precast at a specialised casting/production facility outside the tunnel,..often some distance from the tunnel location.
Remember , concrete needs several days/weeks to cure before it can be used structurally.

LockH · May 26, 2018

Hehe... CycleLoop – India’s Own Eco Friendly And Healthier Version Of The HyperLoop:
https://www.indiatimes.com/technolo...ealthier-version-of-the-hyperloop-346147.html

Starts:

India as a country offers its own set of challenges. With the population growing at a rapid pace in urban areas, commuting has become a problem. And though modes like Metro rail and BRT corridors are coming up, last mile connectivity still remains an issue that is yet to be solved. Enter CycleLoop, an Indian innovation that promises to change the way we travel limited distances.

Includes:

Users can choose to pedal the bike themselves and when they do, the sensors cut the power supply. Once tired, the users can switch back to electric power. A little exercise never hurt anybody, is known to boost brainpower and keep your heart healthy. There’s a monetary benefit too. The more the users pedal, lesser they have to pay. For example, let’s say for a particular distance the fee for using CycleLoop is Rs 10 on electric power alone; pedaling can cut that down based on how much a user pedals.

amberwolf · May 26, 2018

I'd guess that they'll have to set it up so there's a minimum speed one must maintain, or else it kicks in the power to force to to that speed. Otherwise, with no way to pass others who can't (or won't) go fast enough to make it a practical commuting/travel/etc path, there's probably going to be violence, given typical human behaviors.

Even so, they'll need multiple lanes in each direction, with easy ways to turn off the path to other paths without either getting off and going to stand in line and wait for a vacant unit in that path to show up, or having to pick up the unit you're using and carry it to the other path thru lines of people waiting.

I can imagine a number of other problems such a system will create, that simply having sufficient safe space on the surface roads would fix in a much much cheaper, faster, and simpler way.

Hard to imagine they'd spend the millions or more to build it just for recreational use.

Dauntless · May 26, 2018

fechter said:
As a former mining engineer, I can tell you making an underground tunnel like that is not so easy. Primary issue is water. Dig down deep enough and you will hit it almost everywhere. Flooding tunnels are not fun to work in. Even after you install a concrete liner, it still leaks and you have to constantly pump out the water.
Another problem is rock mechanics. We had a tunnel boring machine very similar to Elon's and after it made a stretch of tunnel, it got stuck because the rock 'flowed' behind it, making the tunnel just a little too small to back the machine out.

There's been some tunneling for the metrorail and I assume they learned some tough lessons about it, I remember there was a lot of reporting on problems.

So what would all this tunneling do to Mayor Garrett's vision of New York skyscrapers everywhere? Perhaps Elon is just trying to save us from that.

LockH · May 26, 2018

Hehe... Meanwhile, Toronto used to use a (diseasal-powered) ferry to xfer folks to the airport on Toronto Islands... so watt do "they" do? Build a tunnel across the short "western gap" from the mainland. And now the Scandinavians are building fleets of electric ferries.

:lol:

Dauntless · May 26, 2018

Alaska was and is ferrying people to the Ketchikan airport. When they were going to build a $394 million bridge they lost $125 million of government money when it was taken away for Hurricane Katrina. Efforts to find a bridge loan (A business term) then Governor Sara Palin called it a "Bridge to Nowhere." (The loan, not the bridge itself.)

I think I'd prefer a bridge to a chunnel.

https://www.borough.ketchikan.ak.us/147/Airport-Ferry

LockH · May 27, 2018

Hehe... "ferrying people to the Ketchikan airport"... had to look that up...

Seen here:
http://www.sitnews.us/Kiffer/AirportFerries/111705_history_ferries.html

So. Folks from Scandinavia might suggest folks in Alaska are a bit "retarded"? :lol:

The ship was sold to the borough for $5,000 down with the remaining $99,000 due on delivery. But first the ferry needed a modification.

Now curious watt the folks in Norway are paying. (Guess is, about zero for diseasal fuel.) :wink:

... and now, back to the "Hyperloop" for bikes. :mrgreen:

ERP · Jun 18, 2018

Kingfish said:
lester12483 said:

Musk is way ahead of his time. We need more billionaires like him who have vision to help humanity and actually USE their wealth rather than hoard it.

Musk needs to run for senate and get rid of Barbara Boxer in CA or perhaps governor. Then he can actually make some changes for the better.

Click to expand...

I think that would constrain him with self-interest. Better to have a minion or culture of friendly interests to do it for you.

~KF

I think he should get the tesla right first.

LockH · Jun 18, 2018

... maybe try it in Chicago...

How Musk’s Hyperloop Became Just a Loop in Chicago:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...rloop-became-just-a-loop-in-chicago-quicktake

Starts:

The numbers are pretty unbelievable -- at a top speed of 760 miles per hour (more than 1,200 kilometers per hour), the so-called hyperloop proposed by entrepreneur Elon Musk could whisk travelers from New York to Washington in 29 minutes, one-fifth the time needed by Acela, Amtrak’s fastest train. Now, Musk appears to have scaled down those ambitions somewhat, at least for an early version of the idea. He has won a bid in Chicago to build a high-speed express train to its O’Hare International Airport. It’s not quite a signed contract yet, but if the parties proceed, it will give Musk a chance to prove parts of his untested technology.

:wink:

Chalo · Jun 18, 2018

ERP said:
I think he should get the tesla right first.

Elon Musk is not getting the Tesla right or wrong. He has a huge team of skilled people for that. Likewise with SpaceX, Hyperloop, Boring Co, Solar City, Gigafactories, etc. Folks might give him credit for these things, and he might even take credit for these things, but in fact there are lots and lots of bright, industrious people doing the actual design, engineering, and manufacturing work.

The man has so many visions and ambitions that it makes sense for him to work on all of them he can, while people are falling over each other trying to give him money. Even if all of his ventures succeed-- and it's unlikely that all of them will-- there will come a time when folks aren't so eager to invest.

billvon · Jun 18, 2018

Dauntless said:
Alaska was and is ferrying people to the Ketchikan airport. When they were going to build a $394 million bridge they lost $125 million of government money when it was taken away for Hurricane Katrina. Efforts to find a bridge loan (A business term) then Governor Sara Palin called it a "Bridge to Nowhere." (The loan, not the bridge itself.)

No, she was talking about the bridge itself, and was very much for it before she was against it. It came up several times during the campaign. She kept the money for it, though.

At least she still got to build a road to nowhere. When the bridge was cancelled, DC forgot to cancel the federal funding for the approach road, so Palin spent the money and built it. She was never one to turn down pork.

Dauntless · Jun 18, 2018

billvon said:
No, she was talking about the bridge itself, and was very much for it before she was against it. It came up several times during the campaign. She kept the money for it, though.

At least she still got to build a road to nowhere. When the bridge was cancelled, DC forgot to cancel the federal funding for the approach road, so Palin spent the money and built it. She was never one to turn down pork.

No, she was talking about the financing. She was NEVER against the bridge, she was only against the financial problems that losing the government funding created. The bridge was still supposed to be built, so the road to get there was built. But it hasn't worked out yet.

billvon · Jun 19, 2018

Dauntless said:
No, she was talking about the financing. She was NEVER against the bridge

August 2008: "Ketchikan desires a better way to reach the airport, but the $398 million bridge is not the answer."
August 29, 2008: "I told Congress, thanks but no thanks on that bridge to nowhere."
June 2008 TV ad for McCain/Palin ticket - Palin "stopped the Bridge to Nowhere" (text on screen)

Were those all lies?

Blueshift · Jul 2, 2018

lbz5mc12 said:
That's all well and good but let's not forget that California is notorious for earthquakes. I think any kind of outside force that jostles the tube would have tragic consequences.

I wonder how quickly an emergency stop could be achieved. Not sure how helpful a P-wave sensor system triggering emergency "brakes" would be. I'm sure they would have to design it where a train passing through a certain magnitude earthquake would survive.

Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

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