New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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John and Cecil   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » May 16 2018 12:11pm

I really wish they made customizable rear cassettes. gear ratios are so important with an electric bike, especially when under a hp of power. Something like a 12-14-17-21-26-32-38-44 for an 8 speed using the stock 42t offset chainring would be pretty ideal for me.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by emr » May 16 2018 3:52pm

casainho wrote:
May 16 2018 10:49am
The battery bottle is a bit loose and later I will put some black and strong tape.
I fitted two additional aluminium 'Rivnuts' (M5) to the downtube so there is 4 in total. The battery is very securely mounted using this arrangement.

This allowed the battery to be fitted further up the down tube and allowed the seat tube bottle cage to remain, as the down tube had sufficient length.

In your case, you might need to add one rivnut above and one below the original cage mounts.
BatteryMount_1.png
BatteryMount_2.png
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Last edited by emr on May 20 2018 9:51am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by emr » May 16 2018 4:22pm

casainho wrote:
May 16 2018 10:49am

Without this natural environment, this ebike would have much less value to me :-)

And I got the control of each segment of the LCD3. Next I will start structure the firmware so it is easy to print numbers and strings to the LCD odometer field. Then I want to ride my ebike and show on LCD3 the TSDZ2 real time motor current, battery voltage and motor wattage:
Good to see you are away from the workbench and enjoying the fresh air and outdoors.

Am really impressed with the progress you are making on the new firmware. Much appreciated.

Cheers Emma

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wheelyphased » May 16 2018 7:56pm

John and Cecil wrote:
May 16 2018 12:11pm
I really wish they made customizable rear cassettes. gear ratios are so important with an electric bike, especially when under a hp of power. Something like a 12-14-17-21-26-32-38-44 for an 8 speed using the stock 42t offset chainring would be pretty ideal for me.
I agree. For climbing plus getting to & from the climb, the SRAM EX-1 e-bike specific cassette looks ideal: 11, 13, 15, 18, 24, 32, 40 and 48T but it's over $400 just for the cassette even locally for me. I stick with the stock Shimano XT 11-46 11 speed and carry a spare chain. Downside is often moving 2 gears at time.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bigwheel » May 16 2018 8:58pm

qwerkus wrote:
May 15 2018 10:52am
Finally managed to make a Video of my awful tsdz2 noise: https://youtu.be/vdEDqYoKqYs

The camera is laying on the ground just beneath the motor.

You can hear 3 differents sounds:
- the wet drag in the brackground = wheel slipping on wet ground to simulate load
- high pitch sound = normal electric motor sound
- low pitch shattering sound = anormal gearing sound.

I think it's pretty clear something is wrong with that motor. Still waiting for lithium grease before opening up.
Sounds like the blue gear. Mine only had a little chunk out of it and had a similar sound. Switched to the brass gear set with red and tacky and hasn’t been a problem since.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » May 16 2018 9:32pm

wheelyphased wrote:
May 16 2018 7:56pm
John and Cecil wrote:
May 16 2018 12:11pm
I really wish they made customizable rear cassettes. gear ratios are so important with an electric bike, especially when under a hp of power. Something like a 12-14-17-21-26-32-38-44 for an 8 speed using the stock 42t offset chainring would be pretty ideal for me.
I agree. For climbing plus getting to & from the climb, the SRAM EX-1 e-bike specific cassette looks ideal: 11, 13, 15, 18, 24, 32, 40 and 48T but it's over $400 just for the cassette even locally for me. I stick with the stock Shimano XT 11-46 11 speed and carry a spare chain. Downside is often moving 2 gears at time.
lol $400 :) I will probably try the sunrace 11-40t 8 speed for $30 including the derailler extender (11-13-15-18-22-28-34-40)

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 17 2018 9:09am

Sunny day and a quick ride to post office to receive the package that was sent to me from Portland - USA :-)

Image

Image

Can you guess what was in the package?? 3 TSDZ2 motor controllers (broken, for repair parts) to help me on the firmware development -- many thanks to the friendly user from this forum that send me them for free!!

About the TSDZ2 LCD model VLCD5, I don't really like that it don't save my assist level and every time I start the motor, I have to increase 2 levels... :-(
I will change this on LCD5, as we already store on the memory the user preferences.

I also don't like the much time the VLCD5 takes to boot. Yes, there should be a delay time that motor controller takes to calibrate but that should not be that much time. I wounder what is that time so I can decrease the LCD boot time and so reduce the time the system takes to be ready.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AZUR » May 17 2018 6:14pm

John and Cecil wrote:
May 15 2018 10:01am
The LCD allows the motor amps to be changed in the settings however it does not function :)

Our 34 tooth sprocket arrived yesterday. I took a quick test ride, 1st gear now maxes out at 8mph instead of 10mph. Instead of climbing steep hills at 7.5mph (75% of max speed in gear) we can now run them at 6mph. This should allow us to climb steeper hills with less effort. Chainline has gotten a little worse but appears to be ok. With the stock 42T offset chainring our chainline lined up around 5th gear, with the non-offset 34t chainring we are now lining up around 6th gear. If we need more hill climbing ability I will upgrade the 11-34 rear to 11-40 and keep the 34t front, but if we don't need any more climbing power I will probably upgrade the rear to 11-40 and get a longer chain and switch back to the 42t front.
John, I have only 34T chainring and a bad Chainline (11 cog chainline on a 11-36 cassette) . Can you please make a picture of your 42T Chainring to understand how much offset you have?

Do you know where can I buy an 42 offset chainring for TSDZ2?

Thanks

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » May 17 2018 8:22pm

AZUR wrote:
May 17 2018 6:14pm

John, I have only 34T chainring and a bad Chainline (11 cog chainline on a 11-36 cassette) . Can you please make a picture of your 42T Chainring to understand how much offset you have?

Do you know where can I buy an 42 offset chainring for TSDZ2?

Thanks
I took a picture of it but it is not on the bike. I have the 34 tooth non offset chainring on there now but I do not like it. I will be putting the 42t chainring back on next week and eventually I will upgrade to a wider ratio rear. I think I might even be able to push the stock chainring a couple more mm closer to 1st gear by using 5 washers as spacers. I will see how much room there is when I put it back on next week. It is the stock 42 chainring that came with my motor, maybe you can buy it from pswpower or on aliexpress? It does not have a part number on the chainring.

This is the best pic I could take of it off the bike, I would say it has an offset of around 4.5mm. If I can somehow shim it another 2mm with washers (if there is enough clearance) I think I can move the chainline in about 1.5 gears. With the 34t the chainline lines up best with 6th gear, so 1.5 gears in would put me right in the middle of 4th and 5th on my 8 speed.
DSCN3132.JPG
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by pawepie » May 17 2018 9:16pm

John and Cecil wrote:
May 13 2018 9:42am
I am interested in editing the max voltage of my motor (currently it shuts down above 55.8 and I would prefer 58.4). I would also like to adjust the lower cutoff down to about 36 as well (for when I would like to use 44v travel friendly batteries). My 52v battery pack has it's own low voltage cutoff (42v) so I don't think the very low cutoff will hurt it. Did you find any references that shows how to do this, perhaps a document showing where to connect the port and what port to connect and what software to use and what you must do in the software.
I wired up to the controller using and STLinkV2 clone, and with pinouts according casainho's development guide:https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... tools.html

(I think if I get a speedsensor cable (from PSWpower), I could splice it without having to remove the controller)

I got the rest of the information from this german site: (instruction on how to change the voltage...still have to figure out which are the amperage values)

https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index ... atz.50939/

Sorry I took a while to reply - I've had issues with my computer and have been away for a bit.

Seems like there is further speculation early on in this thread too:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1239772#p1239772

If I have some time on the weekend, I will see if I can come up with anything else. Currently don't have a 52v battery as I'm re-spot welding a pre-made one, but also need to wait on some parts ;p

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » May 17 2018 9:45pm

dupe post
Last edited by AWD on May 18 2018 6:37am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » May 17 2018 9:50pm

AWD wrote:
May 17 2018 9:45pm
AZUR wrote:
May 17 2018 6:14pm
John and Cecil wrote:
May 15 2018 10:01am

Do you know where can I buy an 42 offset chainring for TSDZ2?

Thanks
This is the only one that I have seen: https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p65 ... TSDZ2.html

I was unhappy with the chainline and used a made for Bafang offset chainring and drilled holes in the TS adapter, mounted it with spacers and a little longer M5's. I forget what those actually measurements are but can check tomorrow. It cost way less than the above and serves the same purpose as now the chainring sits about as close to the chain stay as possible giving the best possible chainline, especially in the lowest cog on the cassette, I use a 10spd 11/42. I figure that the chain is stressed the most while in that gear as when I am in it I am climbing something stupid steep and nothing kills chains faster than side loading them any more than necessary.

This Luna ring is along the same lines as mine: https://lunacycle.com/parts/bafang-part ... -sprocket/

It is 9mm offset and half the price of the first one mentioned, it would just take a little work to adapt. A word of caution though that going too far you will hit the plastic cover below the reduction housing and need to back off a bit.
Last edited by AWD on May 18 2018 6:36am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » May 17 2018 9:51pm

AZUR wrote:
May 17 2018 6:14pm
John and Cecil wrote:
May 15 2018 10:01am
The LCD allows the motor amps to be changed in the settings however it does not function :)

Our 34 tooth sprocket arrived yesterday. I took a quick test ride, 1st gear now maxes out at 8mph instead of 10mph. Instead of climbing steep hills at 7.5mph (75% of max speed in gear) we can now run them at 6mph. This should allow us to climb steeper hills with less effort. Chainline has gotten a little worse but appears to be ok. With the stock 42T offset chainring our chainline lined up around 5th gear, with the non-offset 34t chainring we are now lining up around 6th gear. If we need more hill climbing ability I will upgrade the 11-34 rear to 11-40 and keep the 34t front, but if we don't need any more climbing power I will probably upgrade the rear to 11-40 and get a longer chain and switch back to the 42t front.
John, I have only 34T chainring and a bad Chainline (11 cog chainline on a 11-36 cassette) . Can you please make a picture of your 42T Chainring to understand how much offset you have?

Do you know where can I buy an 42 offset chainring for TSDZ2?

Thanks
I don't understand why it doesn't come with a proper bowl shaped offset chaining from a factory in in the first place. Could be another marketing ploy so they increase demand for those nylon or brass blue gears, worn chains and sprockets. Everything seems a bit too overrated for now.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » May 17 2018 9:52pm

dupe post

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » May 17 2018 9:57pm

This is the only TS specific offset chainring I have come across, it is 10mm offset: https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p65 ... TSDZ2.html

When I installed mine I was immediately unhappy with the chain line. There was a made for Bafang chainring handy so I mounted it to the TS adapter using spacers and a little longer M5's. If you use too much offset you will hit the housing cover before the chain stay. A similar operation could be performed using this which has a 9mm offset: https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p65 ... TSDZ2.html

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » May 17 2018 9:59pm

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 18 2018 4:29am

Almost there, implemented: lcd_print(number, ODOMETER)

Next step is to connect to TSDZ2 LCD cable, enable/disable the motor with LCD3 on/off button and show the TSDZ2 motor current!!

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » May 18 2018 5:20am

AWD wrote:
May 17 2018 9:57pm
This is the only TS specific offset chainring I have come across, it is 10mm offset: https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p65 ... TSDZ2.html

When I installed mine I was immediately unhappy with the chain line. There was a made for Bafang chainring handy so I mounted it to the TS adapter using spacers and a little longer M5's. If you use too much offset you will hit the housing cover before the chain stay. A similar operation could be performed using this which has a 9mm offset: https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p65 ... TSDZ2.html
Is it possible to get bigger chaining which would go entirely past the motor housing so it won't rub anywhere. Then adjust it with standard spider/axle spacers. This would theoretically reduce overall wear and increase the speed as well.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AZUR » May 18 2018 5:22am

AWD wrote:
May 17 2018 9:57pm
This is the only TS specific offset chainring I have come across, it is 10mm offset: https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p65 ... TSDZ2.html

When I installed mine I was immediately unhappy with the chain line. There was a made for Bafang chainring handy so I mounted it to the TS adapter using spacers and a little longer M5's. If you use too much offset you will hit the housing cover before the chain stay. A similar operation could be performed using this which has a 9mm offset: https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p65 ... TSDZ2.html
You have the same URL link to the 10mm and 9mm offset Chainring. Is it a mistake? thanks

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AZUR » May 18 2018 5:46am

John and Cecil wrote:
May 17 2018 8:22pm
AZUR wrote:
May 17 2018 6:14pm

John, I have only 34T chainring and a bad Chainline (11 cog chainline on a 11-36 cassette) . Can you please make a picture of your 42T Chainring to understand how much offset you have?

Do you know where can I buy an 42 offset chainring for TSDZ2?

Thanks
I took a picture of it but it is not on the bike. I have the 34 tooth non offset chainring on there now but I do not like it. I will be putting the 42t chainring back on next week and eventually I will upgrade to a wider ratio rear. I think I might even be able to push the stock chainring a couple more mm closer to 1st gear by using 5 washers as spacers. I will see how much room there is when I put it back on next week. It is the stock 42 chainring that came with my motor, maybe you can buy it from pswpower or on aliexpress? It does not have a part number on the chainring.

This is the best pic I could take of it off the bike, I would say it has an offset of around 4.5mm. If I can somehow shim it another 2mm with washers (if there is enough clearance) I think I can move the chainline in about 1.5 gears. With the 34t the chainline lines up best with 6th gear, so 1.5 gears in would put me right in the middle of 4th and 5th on my 8 speed.

DSCN3132.JPG
Thanks for the picture. I can see the offset. I bought a 42 Chainring with 10mm offset. But maybe the chain touches the motor case. let´s see.

Image

https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p65 ... TSDZ2.html

I bought in Europe, Future bike.

http://www.future-bike.it/accessori/cor ... ve-torque/

http://www.future-bike.it/shop/kit-di-t ... anata-atq/

Next week I will know and give feedback.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » May 18 2018 6:41am

Azur,

For some reason my interface with this site is acting wonky, duplicating posts and then scrubbing the post entirely if I try to delete one of them.....here is the alternate ring: https://lunacycle.com/parts/bafang-part ... -sprocket/

But I see you have access to the ready to install one which should work just fine. In fact layered in this thread somewhere there is mention of someone that used one and it worked fine.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » May 18 2018 6:52am

sysrq wrote:
May 18 2018 5:20am
AWD wrote:
May 17 2018 9:57pm
This is the only TS specific offset chainring I have come across, it is 10mm offset: https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p65 ... TSDZ2.html

When I installed mine I was immediately unhappy with the chain line. There was a made for Bafang chainring handy so I mounted it to the TS adapter using spacers and a little longer M5's. If you use too much offset you will hit the housing cover before the chain stay. A similar operation could be performed using this which has a 9mm offset: https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p65 ... TSDZ2.html
Is it possible to get bigger chaining which would go entirely past the motor housing so it won't rub anywhere. Then adjust it with standard spider/axle spacers. This would theoretically reduce overall wear and increase the speed as well.
It would still need to be offset to fit over the gear reduction housing which is ultimately the culprit as it sits proud of the bb shell. But the diameter of the housing is such that nothing smaller than a 42t will fit over it.

For me at least going to a bigger chain ring is not desired, in fact I wouldn't mind dropping a few teeth so that I don't have to run a 42t in the rear which involved getting a Wolf Tooth drop link and a clutched derailleur for the bike I adapted to. My primary use is as an mtb and lower gearing is desired, even with the assist. For faster I grab one of my hub bikes anyway although I did do a group road ride earlier in the spring on it and was able to easily keep pace @ the 22mph average speed the group seemed comfortable going. Much to their dismay :twisted:

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » May 18 2018 9:50am

That sure is a sweet chainring AWD and Azur:) I hear you, I would like to drop a little as well and/or change to a better geared rear cassette. I did not like the 34t because it puts my current rear gear ratio too close together, especially in the low and mid gears. With the 42t front I would prefer 8th gear to be 12 or 13 and low to be in the mid 40's. I think the sunrace 11-40 8 speed may work though. If I consider only using 1st gear as a downhill gear and 8th gear for steep climbing then I will mostly be using 2-7 and they seem to be spaced ok for that purpose. I think 6 gears to get up to 22mph is fine. I do not like have lots of extra gears, maybe it works for light bikes peddling on flats but we are pushing a lot of weight with 27.5 x 3" tires and I like my gears well spaced.

Actually on paper the 42t front with 11-40 8 spd rear looks promising. Top gear speeds at 90 rpm for 27.5 x 2.8" tires are (8 - 9.5 - 11.5 - 14.5 - 18 - 21.5 - 24.5 - 29). Gears 2 through 6 will be used most of the time, with 1 for climbing steeper hills, 2 for slight declines or when peddling hard on the flats, and 1 for steep declines. Not bad for a discount cassette!
Last edited by John and Cecil on May 18 2018 10:58am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » May 18 2018 10:04am

AWD wrote:
May 18 2018 6:52am
It would still need to be offset to fit over the gear reduction housing which is ultimately the culprit as it sits proud of the bb shell. But the diameter of the housing is such that nothing smaller than a 42t will fit over it.

For me at least going to a bigger chain ring is not desired, in fact I wouldn't mind dropping a few teeth so that I don't have to run a 42t in the rear which involved getting a Wolf Tooth drop link and a clutched derailleur for the bike I adapted to. My primary use is as an mtb and lower gearing is desired, even with the assist. For faster I grab one of my hub bikes anyway although I did do a group road ride earlier in the spring on it and was able to easily keep pace @ the 22mph average speed the group seemed comfortable going. Much to their dismay :twisted:
You may also have the option of taking a few mm's off one side of the bb with a grinder. I know... :)

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 18 2018 10:09am

casainho wrote:
May 18 2018 4:29am
Almost there, implemented: lcd_print(number, ODOMETER)

Next step is to connect to TSDZ2 LCD cable, enable/disable the motor with LCD3 on/off button and show the TSDZ2 motor current!!
Although I was able to connect KT LCD3 to TSDZ2 and show the data sent in real time from the motor controller to the LCD, unfortunately I found that motor current is not sent to LCD :-( :-(

It is really strange, there is one byte sent that is always 0. There is another that has the pedal torque sensor value. And even other that has torque sensor value and the wheel speed... there is also a flag sent when motor is running.
Why pedal torque sensor value???? Why there is no current information when LCD symbol is available to show that?? -- I wonder if the torque sensor value was used for debug while development and the product was sent to market in a hurry...
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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