New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Hi casainho, thank's for your hard work! I'm very interested to connect a throttle. Is there a connector on the board with 3 pin? The first 5v the second gnd and the 3^ is the signal? Or the signal is it another pin? I can't see well... Is it possible to find 5v and gnd on the display and to solder only one cable?
 
andrea_104kg said:
Hi casainho, thank's for your hard work! I'm very interested to connect a throttle. Is there a connector on the board with 3 pin? The first 5v the second gnd and the 3^ is the signal? Or the signal is it another pin? I can't see well... Is it possible to find 5v and gnd on the display and to solder only one cable?
Click to expand...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=25#p1374452

Please see the original post and others before. I wired my throttle from that information and as I told before, it works. The motor controller and firmware is the same for all options on the market, there are options that are configured on firmware EEPROM memory that we can change as also some wires missing for throttle.

I think will work if you use 5V an GND from the LCD, you will need to open it. See here pictures of LCD isnide: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/development_tsdz2/About_Tongsheng_TSDZ2_mid_drive_motors--LCD_-_VLCD5.html

4-1.png


file.php


file.php
 
converted a friends bike today.
Took about 2 hours for the conversion. Most time was spend to clear room around the bracket because the downtube had a welded area to cover the gear and brake cables. We had to free that spot.
The cables fortunately fitted within the bracket and the motor (very close fit though).
We also lost some time to put revnut on the downtube to hold the battery.
Those were the only problems we found. If all fitted straight ahead, we would have finished the rebuild in less then an hour.

The bike is a dutch brand Batavus in black finish which matches nicely with the black motor, crank and battery.

Bike gearing is done by a nexus 7 hub. This system is using a narrow chain, which is great to combine with the TSDZ2.
Chainline is almost straight, there is only a very little offset. Nothing to worry about.
Changed wheel diameter from 26 into 28 and deactivated the speed limiter.

All worked fine from the start, happy customer.

RJ1.jpg
RJ2.jpg
RJ3.jpg
 
John and Cecil said:
echew said:
Ended up ordering a TSDZ2 kit that comes with a throttle from recycles-ebike.com

I think just fitting the thing will be enough of a challenge for my first e-bike conversion :)
Click to expand...

It was actually pretty easy to install, although it was a bit time consuming to run the wires. The biggest problem I had was removing the crank arms, the tool I bought ended up just removing the threads inside the crank on one side. Luckily I had a gear puller lying around and I was able to get it off with that. The bb cartridge came out fairly easily with the tool, then the motor just slides right in and bolts up in a few minutes. :)
Click to expand...

Good stuff. I'm about to go looking for the tools I need while I wait for the order to ship...
 
wpenner said:
emr said:
Tested the capability of my 52v 14Ah (14s4p) battery today with the 52v 750w 'recycles-ebike' TSDZ2...

First segment of the battery gauge went at 40km, second at 52km, 3rd at 62km, 4th at 70km, 5th at 75km and 6th flashing at 78km. Just a wee bit of assistance at that stage so I rode another 2km and finished ride.

The assistance didn't seem to deteriorate much at all until approximately the 65km mark, then gradual, but not major reduction until 75km, where it become more noticeable until 80km where all the 'get and go' had got up and gone.

Rode mostly in 'Tour' and 'Speed' mode, with 'Turbo' only when on flat and open sections. Also did a few km around the velodrome with throttle only, at app 37 to 40kph. During the 80km, I was mostly only putting in about 60 to 80watts of human power, except a few hills where it was more like 160watts. Terrain was mostly flattish with a few small rises.

Average speed of 29kph for the 80km (due to numerous slow intersections), but generally cruising at mid 30's to 40 (kph).

Am pleased with the results, as that provides a very usable range.
Click to expand...

Looks like the 14ah is really overkill waste of weight for this motor for most people. Too bad most venders are not selling a 6ah bottle battery.
Click to expand...

Oops, probably should have read this before I ordered my 17Ah!! :roll:
 
Thanks casainho, I never used the usb port... do you think is it possible to use 5v and gnd of usb port for the throttle without open the display? if is possible it's very easy :D
 
andrea_104kg said:
Thanks casainho, I never used the usb port... do you think is it possible to use 5v and gnd of usb port for the throttle without open the display? if is possible it's very easy :D
Click to expand...
I don't know.
 
wpenner said:
Is there Any reason I can’t use a bbs02 gear change sensor and wire it into one of my ebrake lines? Or would it not cut out for long enough duration?
Click to expand...

You should be able to do this just fine. We did this for years on Bafang motors before they started putting the gear sensor cable on the controller. We used a splitter cable so the brake cutoff still worked. On the Bafang the brake cutoff was almost 2 seconds which is way too long for changing gears. When they added the gear sensor cable to the controller they actually decreased the timeout delay to something like 600ms.

Most people find the torque sensing on the TSDZ2 is sensitive enough that you can back off on the pedals which automatically backs off the motor so you can shift without excessive torque applied through the drivetrain. You keep pedaling lightly through the shift like on a regular bike so the shift completes before you add torque again. This makes it much less important to have shift sensors, whereas on a Bafang the PAS level motor torque is applied whenever you are pedaling regardless of how hard you are pedaling. This makes it extremely important with Bafang mid-drives to have a way to cut the motor while pedaling through a shift, especially with motors 500 watts and above at higher PAS levels. This is less important with TSDZ2 motors due to the torque sensing automatically backing off the motor when lightly pedaling through a shift.
 
Timelord said:
gggplaya said:
Nuvinci has already shown plans to integrate their cvt into a mid drive motor.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't hold my breath for that. I doubt Fallbrook is going to be much different or do much better if and when they emerge from bankruptcy.

Waynemarlow said:
...Bafung...
Click to expand...
Are you always misspelling this for a reason? I trust it's not intentional. It's either Bafang or, if you want to use their original name, 8fun. But not Bafung.
http://www.bafang-e.com/en.html

If you want your comments about that brand to show up in the site search, you should spell it right.
Click to expand...
Bafunk if you consider what it’s like sourcing parts.
 
Rydon said:
wpenner said:
Is there Any reason I can’t use a bbs02 gear change sensor and wire it into one of my ebrake lines? Or would it not cut out for long enough duration?
Click to expand...

You should be able to do this just fine. We did this for years on Bafang motors before they started putting the gear sensor cable on the controller. We used a splitter cable so the brake cutoff still worked. On the Bafang the brake cutoff was almost 2 seconds which is way too long for changing gears. When they added the gear sensor cable to the controller they actually decreased the timeout delay to something like 600ms.

Most people find the torque sensing on the TSDZ2 is sensitive enough that you can back off on the pedals which automatically backs off the motor so you can shift without excessive torque applied through the drivetrain. You keep pedaling lightly through the shift like on a regular bike so the shift completes before you add torque again. This makes it much less important to have shift sensors, whereas on a Bafang the PAS level motor torque is applied whenever you are pedaling regardless of how hard you are pedaling. This makes it extremely important with Bafang mid-drives to have a way to cut the motor while pedaling through a shift, especially with motors 500 watts and above at higher PAS levels. This is less important with TSDZ2 motors due to the torque sensing automatically backing off the motor when lightly pedaling through a shift.
Click to expand...
Why bother? Stop pedaling and the motor stops... The GS is the most useless piece of kit. It only got popular with the inrush of folks that were not the best coordinated at shifting. I have 4 or 5 in my parts box. And until I pitch or donate they will stay there. Look back at the beta testing done by fellas here.
 
tomjasz said:
Why bother? Stop pedaling and the motor stops... The GS is the most useless piece of kit. It only got popular with the inrush of folks that were not the best coordinated at shifting. I have 4 or 5 in my parts box. And until I pitch or donate they will stay there. Look back at the beta testing done by fellas here.
Click to expand...

You can't stop pedaling with a derailleur or it won't shift. High PAS levels will tear up your drivetrain unless you cut the motor. This can only be done with brake cutoffs or GS while using PAS. This is much less important on TSDZ2 than Bafang because you can pedal lightly and have the motor cut power substantially while still pedaling through the shift.
 
I still say pushing the throttle an instant before shifting works much better than backing off the pedals :) I have to retrain my mind though, every now and then I hold it in and forget it isn't a clutch and in 1-2 seconds the motor will kick back in !
 
Here is the TSDZ2 original firmware with an improvement to send motor current to LCD (still original LCD does not read motor current). This is mostly for developers/advanced users that may want to use LCD3 instead of the original LCD or some Arduino, etc.

View attachment TSDZ2_original_firmware-Flexible.zip

After disassembling we got good insights of some parts of the firmware do work. We could understand how data is sent to LCD and we could add our own function with the needed changes to send the current to the LCD.

Here is current disassembled file with our knowledge: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zuv3ELZCQJf2eksGHNJ1gKZ7Hxlrk2OHaV0mXiXQ5Hs/edit?usp=sharing



And our added code at strong red color:
 
I just finished my second build. I used a tongsheng tsdz2 48v 750 watt motor and had it working great for about 20 min than it just quits. The motor, headlight and speedometer all just stopped responding. The display is still on but it's reporting a low battery. I charged the battery and double checked it with my voltage meter and its good. The display still says low battery. I reconnected everything and checked all my wiring still the same deal. Has anybody had an issue like this or have any ideas on what i might be able to do? Any advice is appreciated.
 
GavilanButler said:
I just finished my second build. I used a tongsheng tsdz2 48v 750 watt motor and had it working great for about 20 min than it just quits. The motor, headlight and speedometer all just stopped responding. The display is still on but it's reporting a low battery. I charged the battery and double checked it with my voltage meter and its good. The display still says low battery. I reconnected everything and checked all my wiring still the same deal. Has anybody had an issue like this or have any ideas on what i might be able to do? Any advice is appreciated.
Click to expand...
Go and see if the battery configured voltage on firmware is correct. Is the firmware that says to LCD the battery state of charge. Maybe it is a incorrect configuration.
 
GavilanButler said:
I just finished my second build. I used a tongsheng tsdz2 48v 750 watt motor and had it working great for about 20 min than it just quits. The motor, headlight and speedometer all just stopped responding. The display is still on but it's reporting a low battery. I charged the battery and double checked it with my voltage meter and its good. The display still says low battery. I reconnected everything and checked all my wiring still the same deal. Has anybody had an issue like this or have any ideas on what i might be able to do? Any advice is appreciated.
Click to expand...

When the LCD reports low battery, it is possible that it doesn't receive data from the motor controller.

You may check if the controller MCU receives power:
On the speed sensor plug, measure the voltage between brown(+) and orange(-), should be 5V if LCD is on.

If it doesn't show anything, disconnect the LCD.
On the LCD connector of the motor, first check Voltage between green(+) and black(-).
That will most likely be ok and show the battery voltage.
Then short the white and the green wire to enable the motor.
Now check voltage on the speed sensor plug again.
If it now shows 5V, test if motor kicks in when rotating the pedals (maybe hold brake a bit to generate resistance).

Plugs and colors:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1237467#p1237467
Pinout:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1238105#p1238105
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1238280#p1239772

EDIT: Also try to disconnect the throttle if you have one. It is probably connected to the 5V supply voltage of the MCU.
 
John and Cecil said:
The biggest problem I had was removing the crank arms, the tool I bought ended up just removing the threads inside the crank on one side. Luckily I had a gear puller lying around and I was able to get it off with that.
Click to expand...

You have to make sure that the centre pin doesnt contact the square edge of the crank arm. I find it easiest to screw the centre pin all the way out (so it's stickout out), so you can see that it has gone into the hole and is contacting on the crank, then progressively screw the outer bit into the crank arm. Then tighten.
 
Still haven't tested mine, judging from videos some appear to be noisier than others. Will see how it works with rubber gaskets everywhere, postponing for now.
Had to put some heat-shrink tubes around display and reed switch wires, one side of the chainring got a bit too hot due to 300C hot air gun and slow shrinking of the heat-shrink tubes. Hopefully the torque sensor, grease or blue gear will not be compromised.
 
Rydon said:
tomjasz said:
Why bother? Stop pedaling and the motor stops... The GS is the most useless piece of kit. It only got popular with the inrush of folks that were not the best coordinated at shifting. I have 4 or 5 in my parts box. And until I pitch or donate they will stay there. Look back at the beta testing done by fellas here.
Click to expand...

You can't stop pedaling with a derailleur or it won't shift. High PAS levels will tear up your drivetrain unless you cut the motor. This can only be done with brake cutoffs or GS while using PAS. This is much less important on TSDZ2 than Bafang because you can pedal lightly and have the motor cut power substantially while still pedaling through the shift.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I’ll try to remember remember that, and will always wonder how I didn’t tear up the gearing on any of the 6 BBSXX I’ve owned from the BBS01, BBS02, to 3 BBSHD’s.
 
Finally got it!! TSDZ2 motor controller is now sending the motor current to LCD :)

I developed the firmware for KT LCD3 to read the data sent by TSDZ2 motor controller and print it. Soon I should adopt LCD3 and recycle the TSDZ2 original LCD.

Here the piece of code that receives the motor current (battery current, actually) and low pass filter the value before print to LCD:
// low pass filter to smooth the battery current signal
ui16_battery_current_accumulated -= ui16_battery_current_accumulated >> 8;
ui16_battery_current_accumulated += ((uint16_t) ui8_rx_buffer[3]);
ui8_battery_current_filtered = ui16_battery_current_accumulated >> 8;

lcd_print (ui8_battery_current_filtered * 2, ODOMETER);
Click to expand...

[youtube]LmT9hLkoHAs[/youtube]

All this would not be possible without the help of hurzhurz


casainho said:
Here is the TSDZ2 original firmware with an improvement to send motor current to LCD (still original LCD does not read motor current). This is mostly for developers/advanced users that may want to use LCD3 instead of the original LCD or some Arduino, etc.

TSDZ2_original_firmware-Flexible.zip

After disassembling we got good insights of some parts of the firmware do work. We could understand how data is sent to LCD and we could add our own function with the needed changes to send the current to the LCD.

Here is current disassembled file with our knowledge: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zuv3ELZCQJf2eksGHNJ1gKZ7Hxlrk2OHaV0mXiXQ5Hs/edit?usp=sharing



And our added code at strong red color:
Click to expand...
 
casainho said:
Finally got it!! TSDZ2 motor controller is now sending the motor current to LCD :)
Click to expand...
My wish list is:
- ride my ebike with TSDZ2 on the LCD see in real time:
-- how much of my human power I am doing: pedal cadence * pedal torque sensor
-- how much electric power the motor is providing: motor(battery) current * battery voltage --- this can be done immediately!

- see on the LCD trip total Wh used and so have a good approximation of battery state
- defined a battery Wh value at start of the trip and see the remain value

- being able to define the amount of motor current on LCD (possible Wh instead), having 5 assist levels and not 3 as on original LCD.
Being able to configure each value for each assist level.
 
casainho said:
casainho said:
Finally got it!! TSDZ2 motor controller is now sending the motor current to LCD :)
Click to expand...
My wish list is:
- ride my ebike with TSDZ2 on the LCD see in real time:
-- how much of my human power I am doing: pedal cadence * pedal torque sensor
-- how much electric power the motor is providing: motor(battery) current * battery voltage --- this can be done immediately!

- see on the LCD trip total Wh used and so have a good approximation of battery state
- defined a battery Wh value at start of the trip and see the remain value

- being able to define the amount of motor current on LCD (possible Wh instead), having 5 assist levels and not 3 as on original LCD.
Being able to configure each value for each assist level.
Click to expand...

Another thank you for all the improvements you are working on for this great little motor, I faithfully read this post every day to see what is happening. Having 3 of these motors set up the most valuable feature to me will be the battery voltage displayed on the lcd, other features while valuable the voltage reading is all I need for state of battery.

Keep up the good work and thanks again,
 
Marin said:
Another thank you for all the improvements you are working on for this great little motor, I faithfully read this post every day to see what is happening. Having 3 of these motors set up the most valuable feature to me will be the battery voltage displayed on the lcd, other features while valuable the voltage reading is all I need for state of battery.

Keep up the good work and thanks again,
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback.

Showing battery voltage can be done immediately and I wish more developers can join on developing the firmware for LCD3 so all this can quick be done and tested.
LCD3 measures the voltage at the battery power supply wire.
LCD3 is much more complete than TSDZ2 original LCD.

And with our OpenSource firmware for LCD3, we can implement some specific/very good algorithm for the battery SOC, having has input real time battery voltage and current.

Here is a picture of LCD3 (with his original firmware) showing battery voltage:
20150624_174251-1080x720.jpg
 
casainho said:
casainho said:
Finally got it!! TSDZ2 motor controller is now sending the motor current to LCD :)
Click to expand...
My wish list is:
- ride my ebike with TSDZ2 on the LCD see in real time:
-- how much of my human power I am doing: pedal cadence * pedal torque sensor Very good, this is what I am looking for.
-- how much electric power the motor is providing: motor(battery) current * battery voltage --- this can be done immediately! Very good.

- see on the LCD trip total Wh used and so have a good approximation of battery state Very good. I can see in my battery Wh via Bluetooth.
- defined a battery Wh value at start of the trip and see the remain value Very good.

- being able to define the amount of motor current on LCD (possible Wh instead), having 5 assist levels and not 3 as on original LCD.
Being able to configure each value for each assist level. Amazing, like in the Specialized Turbo Levo. It is good to adapt motor behavior to our fitness level and/or to the battery capacity.
Click to expand...


Casainho you're doing a wonderful job.

As a suggestion, maybe you could do like Garmin GPS. Instead of the instant power you could show the average power in 3s (or 10s). I prefer 3s.

In Garmin you can see instant power and average power. I have only the average power in 3s.

In my opinion instant power can give a less accurate value than average power.

Thanks for the work you're doing.
 
Did a water test back and forth through two of these. Not super deep but water over the bb more often than not riding the center. Not a burp but I treat all my connections with Boeshield.

1EBAE7C3-22E6-4526-93F3-3F7BC6D91EA0.jpeg

My feet got wet however!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
    • Like
Really good article comparing Bafang vs. Tongsheng vs. CYC
Replies
12
Views
10,290
999zip999
999zip999
E-HP
    • Like
DIY Newb FAQ?
Replies
20
Views
2,325
neptronix
neptronix
B
Intro guide to TSDZ2 & BBS02 (updated 2021)
2
Replies
35
Views
17,125
docw009
docw009
Back
Top