Bafang Ultra Discussion

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
agedashidofu   1 W

1 W
Posts: 50
Joined: Aug 13 2017 10:12pm

Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by agedashidofu » Apr 21 2018 8:47am

Folks,

Opening up a dedicated thread for Bafang Ultra - since we don't have any yet.

Thought this would be good for folks to share / discuss any builds using the Bafang Ultra

Let me start:

Planning to get the Bafang Ultra, set up w/ Grin Phaserunner & Cycle Analyst.

1. Anyone knows if there are any foreseen issues w/ this setup?
2. Will Bafang Ultra's built-in torque sensor work w/ Cycle Analyst?
3. How much amp can the motor handle? I plan to run this w/ 60V (nominal) pack & 50A max amp

Thx!!!

tommie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 93
Joined: Jun 21 2015 10:54am
Location: N. Ireland

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by tommie » Apr 21 2018 7:25pm

couple of things - where do we find frames capable of taking the Ultra motor?

and is the Ultra motor both cadence and torque or just torque only?

agedashidofu   1 W

1 W
Posts: 50
Joined: Aug 13 2017 10:12pm

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by agedashidofu » Apr 21 2018 9:43pm

Just torque, not cadence
As for the frame - I think this is relatively new, so it may take time before we see more getting released to the market. As for the frame, there are a few that offers today, but require a minimum order quantity of 50 :-(

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 26728
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by amberwolf » Apr 22 2018 12:38am

agedashidofu wrote:
Apr 21 2018 8:47am


Opening up a dedicated thread for Bafang Ultra - since we don't have any yet.
Theres a few about it
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/searc ... mit=Search

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by Daxxie » Apr 28 2018 3:18am

tommie wrote:
Apr 21 2018 7:25pm
couple of things - where do we find frames capable of taking the Ultra motor?
I ordered a titanium Fatbike frame for the Ultra in China.
It's almost ready to ship. Will keep you posted.

Image

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by Daxxie » Apr 28 2018 3:29am

agedashidofu wrote:
Apr 21 2018 8:47am
Planning to get the Bafang Ultra, set up w/ Grin Phaserunner & Cycle Analyst.
1. Anyone knows if there are any foreseen issues w/ this setup?
2. Will Bafang Ultra's built-in torque sensor work w/ Cycle Analyst?
3. How much amp can the motor handle? I plan to run this w/ 60V (nominal) pack & 50A max amp

Would love to know that as well.

I have a brand new Ultra here that blew the controller after connecting the battery.
Don't know what to do with it.
Controllers don't seem available.

A Phaserunner could fit inside the casing. There is quite some room.
But only interesting when the Torque sensing function works.

Currently Luna isn't offering the 50A Ludicrous version anymore because of reliability issues.
Don't know if these issues are electrical or mechanical.

Image

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9717
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by Hillhater » Apr 28 2018 3:44am

Daxxie wrote:
Apr 28 2018 3:18am
I ordered a titanium Fatbike frame for the Ultra in China.
Image
Who designed that frame ?
Im not a fan of using the "open" motor support as a key structural frame component in that design.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by Daxxie » Apr 28 2018 4:20am

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 28 2018 3:44am
Daxxie wrote:
Apr 28 2018 3:18am
I ordered a titanium Fatbike frame for the Ultra in China.
Image
Who designed that frame ?
Im not a fan of using the "open" motor support as a key structural frame component in that design.
Well, we will see.
I'm hoping all being titanium it won't fall apart. :-)

How else could it be done?

agedashidofu   1 W

1 W
Posts: 50
Joined: Aug 13 2017 10:12pm

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by agedashidofu » May 05 2018 6:17pm

Anyone knows if bafang ultra and bafang max have the same mount? Found a nice carbon frame but it says for bafang max, so not sure if the mounts arr the same

Thanks

User avatar
Ivanovitch_k   10 W

10 W
Posts: 96
Joined: Jul 15 2017 4:54pm
Location: Paris, France

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by Ivanovitch_k » May 06 2018 3:09pm

max & ultra mounts are not the same at all.

see Luna's Ultra motor product page, they show the differences.
BBS'ed Radon ZR Team 8:
BBS02B 750W - DPC750C - 48V 17.5Ah GA shark - 11 spd 11-40 Shimano XT, 42T N-W Precialps CW, KMC X11e chain, Gearsensor, XT RD, XTR Shifter, F Saint Brake, R XT Brake, RT99 200/160 Discs, magnetic shutoff, DT Swiss X1900 QR9 wheels, Manitou M30 air fork, 2.4" slick balloon schwalbe Super Moto X tires @2 bars, Suntour NCX suspension seatpost, ergon SFC3 saddle, ergon GP3 grips, Supernova M99 Pro + E12 Taillight

Kitaro1999   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Oct 25 2017 4:27am

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by Kitaro1999 » May 06 2018 8:20pm


User avatar
Ivanovitch_k   10 W

10 W
Posts: 96
Joined: Jul 15 2017 4:54pm
Location: Paris, France

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by Ivanovitch_k » May 27 2018 6:46am

Does someone knows the purpose & pinouts of the ultra's connectors ? Also, their make/model would be useful

edit: found them, they are JST's JWPF series and are surprisingly IPX7 rated (i.e. no ingress for at least 30min under 1 meter of water) !

here is what I know so far, all viewed from motor-side.
  • 8-pin white female: main EB-bus -> throttle, ebrakes, display uart & power (programming cable attach here)
  • 2-pin blue male & female: lights connectors, 6 Vdc out, 3W max / 500mA (for both or per cable, unknown)
  • 3-pin white female: speed sensor
  • 3-pin white male: gear sensor ? to be confirmed
  • 4-pin black female: ?
What I suppose the black one does is connection to compatible BMS over UART or CAN. The motor would forward the BMS data to the display in order to populate the detailed battery info page (on dpc18 at least) :?:
BBS'ed Radon ZR Team 8:
BBS02B 750W - DPC750C - 48V 17.5Ah GA shark - 11 spd 11-40 Shimano XT, 42T N-W Precialps CW, KMC X11e chain, Gearsensor, XT RD, XTR Shifter, F Saint Brake, R XT Brake, RT99 200/160 Discs, magnetic shutoff, DT Swiss X1900 QR9 wheels, Manitou M30 air fork, 2.4" slick balloon schwalbe Super Moto X tires @2 bars, Suntour NCX suspension seatpost, ergon SFC3 saddle, ergon GP3 grips, Supernova M99 Pro + E12 Taillight

Tpesl   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 8
Joined: Jan 21 2019 2:44pm

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by Tpesl » Apr 10 2019 2:54am

What’s the highest volt battery you can use with the ultra ? I heard that you could go up to 60v with the stock controller.
Not sure if that’s tru.

garyal1   10 W

10 W
Posts: 73
Joined: May 18 2018 7:17pm

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by garyal1 » Apr 10 2019 7:03am

14S (52 volt) battery is highest you can use with stock controller. This charges to 58 volts and 60 is the cutoff point with the Bafang controller.

I pulled their controller and I use the Grin Phaserunner. I can run a 72 volt 60 amp battery.....Currently running 60 volt, 50 amp for 3000 watts. Lot of added torque.

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by Daxxie » Apr 14 2019 6:18am

Exess-bikes is announcing their new controller for the Ultra.

Image

Hope this works with the original display.

https://www.exess-bikes.de/news/coming- ... ltra-motor

fullofdays   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 16
Joined: Apr 01 2018 8:02pm

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by fullofdays » Apr 14 2019 5:38pm

:bolt: :P V :bigthumb:
Last edited by fullofdays on Apr 14 2019 5:53pm, edited 1 time in total.

fullofdays   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 16
Joined: Apr 01 2018 8:02pm

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by fullofdays » Apr 14 2019 5:49pm

Very cool thread. Sold my tangent kit last year when my son was born. 15 lbs later and and the ultra will be my next build. I think 1500 kw will be great as a starting point for me.

User avatar
El_Topo   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: May 30 2019 3:28pm

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by El_Topo » Jun 03 2019 5:06pm

I just found the manual for the Bafang Ultra but wasn't able to determine what the bottom bracket equivalent of the motor is (please excuse my layman's phrasing), could anyone chime in regarding this?
I am asking because I am contemplating a custom fat bike build where the Q-factor is lower than with the Luna Cycles spindle and cranks.
Hillhater wrote:
Apr 28 2018 3:44am
Who designed that frame ?
Im not a fan of using the "open" motor support as a key structural frame component in that design.
Would you mind to elaborate? I as mentioned above, I am in the market for a similar build and would like to know on how this design could be improved.
Ivanovitch_k wrote:
May 06 2018 3:09pm
max & ultra mounts are not the same at all.
see Luna's Ultra motor product page, they show the differences.
Where can I find this information? I searched on Luna's HP but wasn't able to determine it myself.

If you buy the Luna Cycle version you get the magnesium version that is lighter and has the steel instead of nylon cogs, right?
That magnesium version is ONLY available from LUNA, isn't it?

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by Daxxie » Jun 04 2019 1:57am

El_Topo wrote:
Jun 03 2019 5:06pm
I just found the manual for the Bafang Ultra
No, thats a Max drive manual.

User avatar
El_Topo   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: May 30 2019 3:28pm

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by El_Topo » Jun 04 2019 6:33am

Daxxie wrote:
Jun 04 2019 1:57am
El_Topo wrote:
Jun 03 2019 5:06pm
I just found the manual for the Bafang Ultra
No, thats a Max drive manual.
Indeed, shame on me - is there even a manual for the Ultra online? This was the only one I was able to find, where the link was working.

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by Daxxie » Jun 04 2019 11:49am

El_Topo wrote:
Jun 03 2019 5:06pm
I just found the manual for the Bafang Ultra but wasn't able to determine what the bottom bracket equivalent of the motor is (please excuse my layman's phrasing), could anyone chime in regarding this?
I am asking because I am contemplating a custom fat bike build where the Q-factor is lower than with the Luna Cycles spindle and cranks.
How can I help?

There is around 17cm distance between the ends of the crankshaft.
61799875_305990820354511_7521033672883961856_n.jpg
61799875_305990820354511_7521033672883961856_n.jpg (71.34 KiB) Viewed 375 times
The end of the Bafang cranks (pedal side) are around 23cm apart.
22cm.jpg
22cm.jpg (77.74 KiB) Viewed 375 times
61993587_2348883912061919_639728193258913792_n.jpg

User avatar
El_Topo   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: May 30 2019 3:28pm

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by El_Topo » Jun 04 2019 1:17pm

Daxxie wrote:
Jun 04 2019 11:49am
El_Topo wrote:
Jun 03 2019 5:06pm
I just found the manual for the Bafang Ultra but wasn't able to determine what the bottom bracket equivalent of the motor is (please excuse my layman's phrasing), could anyone chime in regarding this?
I am asking because I am contemplating a custom fat bike build where the Q-factor is lower than with the Luna Cycles spindle and cranks.
How can I help?

There is around 17cm distance between the ends of the crankshaft.

61799875_305990820354511_7521033672883961856_n.jpg

The end of the Bafang cranks (pedal side) are around 23cm apart.

22cm.jpg
61993587_2348883912061919_639728193258913792_n.jpg
Merci Beaucoup for posting these images, Daxxie.
So the Q-factor is (give or take) 230mm, this is way too wide for my sensitive knees but what I expected based on the photos from Luna's site.

What I was looking for seems to be the "spindle length" of the motor, according to this document (which seems to be the official ISIS specification).
If I am not mistaken, spindle length determines the chain line (though you can move it around with a spider and/or spacers) and the spindle length + the cranks (meaning how wide they are and how much sweep they have) determine the q-factor.
Taking your measured 17cm from crankshaft to crankshaft, I would assume this about the same as having a 73mm bottom bracket (with the corresponding spindle), but I haven't been able to verify this with my limited knowledge and therefore lack of knowing what to google for exactly.

Again, please excuse my lacking terminology.

PS: Those green tires look rad on your bike!
Last edited by El_Topo on Jun 04 2019 7:55pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
El_Topo   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: May 30 2019 3:28pm

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by El_Topo » Jun 04 2019 2:22pm

If I get a controller that allows for more watts, would that increase torque besides max speed? I am not after a fast bike but one that can climb steep slopes.

In general, how does the torque sensor of the Bafang feel? I read somewhere that is too sensitive and delivers full power with very little effort, meaning it would be hard to make it feel like the a bicycle and not like a motorbike...
The motor wouldn't bring me any joy if that would be the case, my reference is the "Brose Drive S" motor, does it feel remotely like this? I've ridden the Bosch and found the power kicking in too abrupt and harsh where Brose really felt smooth because it just amplifyed my power input.
Can this behaviour be influenced with the programming of the motor?

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by Daxxie » Jun 05 2019 1:04am

El_Topo wrote:
Jun 04 2019 1:17pm

So the Q-factor is (give or take) 230mm, this is way too wide for my sensitive knees but what I expected based on the photos from Luna's site.

Also found these:

Fatbike spider:
Einbaumasse_Ultra_Fatbike.jpg
Normal spider
Einbaumasse_Ultra_MTB.jpg

User avatar
El_Topo   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: May 30 2019 3:28pm

Re: Bafang Ultra Discussion

Post by El_Topo » Jun 05 2019 1:58am

Daxxie wrote:
Jun 05 2019 1:04am
Also found these:
Thank you very much, if I read this correctly this means the motor has a 150mm spindle. That motor bulge might prevent running very narrow cranks if you look at this photo. So a Q-factor of 183mm and a tire clearance of 4.6" as described here might be be out of the picture, though with right cranks one might still be able to achieve a 195(-ish)mm Q-factor with the added bonus of being able to widen the chain stays and therefore run slightly wider tires.
Last edited by El_Topo on Jun 09 2019 4:01pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply