Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

efMX Trials Electric Freeride said:
Rix said:
racingame said:
Could somebody clear up some doubts of mine?

The homologated version comes just with the 48V/25Ah battery pack, DNM USD-8S fork and sinwave controller?
It's limited to 45 km/h via firmware, and you can't unlock it in any way at a later time?

I think you cut a wire and it un-restricts the performance.

Rix is correct, the Sur-ron homologated version is wire restricted so it can be easily derestricted by cutting the restriction wire to unlock both power modes and full power and speed.. it should be available in either / both battery configurations and be interchangeable between the available stock battery packs.. you can read more about the homologated Sur-ron light bee here :

https://evnerds.com/electric-vehicles/e-motorcycle-news/sur-ron-light-bee-homologated-version-in-europe/

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61259&p=1379383#p1379383
Oh, I missed that post from Francis. That's great if you can cut the wire and keep switching between 45km/h and max stock speed 73km/h.

What about the wheels tho? Even if homologated, it comes with off-road wheels, right? What about the supermoto wheel set, for how much extra will that be available if someone just plans to use it on road?
 
racingame said:
efMX Trials Electric Freeride said:
Rix said:
racingame said:
Could somebody clear up some doubts of mine?

The homologated version comes just with the 48V/25Ah battery pack, DNM USD-8S fork and sinwave controller?
It's limited to 45 km/h via firmware, and you can't unlock it in any way at a later time?

I think you cut a wire and it un-restricts the performance.

Rix is correct, the Sur-ron homologated version is wire restricted so it can be easily derestricted by cutting the restriction wire to unlock both power modes and full power and speed.. it should be available in either / both battery configurations and be interchangeable between the available stock battery packs.. you can read more about the homologated Sur-ron light bee here :

https://evnerds.com/electric-vehicles/e-motorcycle-news/sur-ron-light-bee-homologated-version-in-europe/

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61259&p=1379383#p1379383
Oh, I missed that post from Francis. That's great if you can cut the wire and keep switching between 45km/h and max stock speed 73km/h.

What about the wheels tho? Even if homologated, it comes with off-road wheels, right? What about the supermoto wheel set, for how much extra will that be available if someone just plans to use it on road?

Sur-ron light bee (currently) comes stock with 19" moto rims and dual sport tires (there may be future options with the eve bikes light bee style kits).. for street only use you could get some aftermarket 19" street tires or the 17" super moto wheels (which do not come with tires) .. the supermoto wheel set is available from luna and other dealers that stock them (such as Aebikes, etc) or direct from china in the Sur-ron parts shop (https://shop.m.jd.com/?shopId=732127) .. the supermoto wheel set from luna includes a 42t rear sprocket (to maintain stock gearing and top speed with the smaller diameter 17" wheels) and the correct chain length to make it an easy bolt on kit..
 
beefcake_groundPidgeon...that Motor PDF is is good read. I noticed an interesting link in the index of references...

Endless Sphere: Electric Vehicle Technology Forums 2009. Mounting Hall sensors to
R/C brushless motors. Available from: <http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.
php?f=28&t=9061>. (17 August 2009)
 
sportsbud said:
So joined this forum as I am following the Sur Ron very very closely... It fits what I want out of an electric bike (mainly price lol). I have been eying the street legal version as I want to get this to ride around New Orleans were I live. There is no provision that allows a bike like this to just ride around freely... To the state its the same as riding a dirt bike with no plates... So I can only hope that the one with the VIN comes in soon. Even if its not street legal having just a VIN and a MSO or equivalent with that VIN I can get it street legal. I want this also to rip up some dirt from time to time... I actually emailed the guys from Denzel bikes about if their bikes will be coming with a VIN and they seemed clueless lol...Sent them some links from .gov sites talking about the who, what, when and where of VINs. Also I have read about this "Field weakening" and am clueless as I have been working on gas for a while and not much electrical background...

Let me know what you find. I emailed Luna and they don't know if they will have the street legal version. I'd like one as well. It seems like the street legal version would be perfect to register as a moped.
 
n2mb said:
sportsbud said:
So joined this forum as I am following the Sur Ron very very closely... It fits what I want out of an electric bike (mainly price lol). I have been eying the street legal version as I want to get this to ride around New Orleans were I live. There is no provision that allows a bike like this to just ride around freely... To the state its the same as riding a dirt bike with no plates... So I can only hope that the one with the VIN comes in soon. Even if its not street legal having just a VIN and a MSO or equivalent with that VIN I can get it street legal. I want this also to rip up some dirt from time to time... I actually emailed the guys from Denzel bikes about if their bikes will be coming with a VIN and they seemed clueless lol...Sent them some links from .gov sites talking about the who, what, when and where of VINs. Also I have read about this "Field weakening" and am clueless as I have been working on gas for a while and not much electrical background...

Let me know what you find. I emailed Luna and they don't know if they will have the street legal version. I'd like one as well. It seems like the street legal version would be perfect to register as a moped.

Luna would have to be looney (pun intended;) not to stock the street legal Sur-ron versions.. they will cost a bit more but totally worth it to be able to register and ride the bike legally on the streets, around town, to the trails, national forest roads, etc.. its the best of both worlds street legal and off-road capable .. it would also greatly increase sales especially for ppl that don't have a legal place to ride an off-road only ebike.. and they could remove the disclaimer from their website "Off Road Use Only .. not legal in 50 states on public roads .." or change it to "comes with a 17 digit VIN number for registration with your local department of motor vehicles for street legal operation.. " also, I read on the luna site that "As of now we are the only dealer in the USA although we are accepting applications for other [Sur-ron] dealers .. " if luna won't step up to the plate then someone else will fill this market demand (or you can get it directly from china).. I suggest that ppl start contacting luna asking specifically for the street legal Sur-ron versions to demonstrate the market demand for them and prod them into stocking them as soon as available from the manufacturer..
 
I asked Luna and received the same answer, but I'd bet they're being coy and already have a big order for the street version.
 
Any thoughts on the new Light Bee X Edition model?

https://item.m.jd.com/product/28766053613.html#main

New forks, more powerful motor, regenerative braking, some battery tweaks (as I understand it: working through Google Translate 😝😂)

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/r3Q6rR8SHOm_XDl4Zjep9g

(Not sure if the second link will work outside China...)
 
*sorry for the long post here: I've basically copied and pasted the (Google Chrome) translation from the second link in the above post (incase the link doesn't work for you - it was an announcement through WeChat from Sur-Ron's official account and I'm not sure it will be possible to access outside China...). Gaps are where the pictures were 😝

Light bee X all-terrain off-road electric car new starting
SURRON Yesterday


Since the light bee off-road electric vehicles were listed on the market in September last year, no matter if they are newcomers or off-road veterans, they are all amazed when they get light bees. Is this really a Chinese company manufacturing?



The light bee, as the first mass-produced and marketed model of Xiaolong, gained a good reputation in the market and stood firm in the off-road electric two-wheeled field. Half a year later, light bee users are good, followers are good, are very optimistic about the future development of Hao Long, looking forward to the next round of new product release.



Today, the key point is to introduce the upcoming light bee upgrade version



Light Bee X Edition







The three power systems have been upgraded and fully calibrated, and the controller has been changed to FOC vector control. The multi-curve compound algorithm has more flexible and sensitive controls . The output power of the EP (economy) is soft and smooth, and the power output of the SPORT mode is higher than the previous one. The version is even more violent.









The addition of the kinetic energy recovery function and the electronic brake function of the motor enhances the autonomous safety performance while enhancing the vehicle's battery life. The motor's peak torque can reach 32N.m, and the 45° slope can easily climb.










High-rate lithium battery pack, using imported batteries, complete battery management system, 4 temperature sensors, increased single-chip 485 communications, ensure high power load capacity of the battery pack, and extend the service life of lithium batteries. The battery pack has 80% capacity after 500 cycles of charge and discharge, and its cruising range is 20% higher than that of the Standard Lightning Bee.



Integrated SOC power meter, one-click view power, automatic display of power in driving status, without frequent manual viewing, high power density, maximum output 6000W, capacity density up to 170wh/kg.








The brand-new matching lightweight DNM front and rear shock absorbers, inverted front forks, spring shock absorbers, new technology with pneumatic assist resistance, fork lift increased to 203mm, allowing you to attack the ground slightly, nothing less.







Re-aligned, independent research and development of Intersect TR suspension system, after matching DNM shock absorbers, multi-link structure, progressive magnification to bring soft and with a suitable application experience.








The exclusive golden oil seal chain enhances the higher grade materials and processes, greatly improves the load capacity, the working conditions are stable, the noise is reduced, the maintenance frequency is reduced, and you are more focused on riding.






The brake system is customized with four-piston brakes made of titanium alloy. The pump is painted under the paint and the quality is improved. All-metal brake pads are used. The braking force is better, and the thermal decay resistance is increased by 3 times! Ramp slopes without fear.






Newly upgraded seat cushions, filled with foam to adjust comfort unevenly according to different road conditions and riding postures. Thickness increased by 10mm, width increased by 5mm, the top surface was softer, and riding comfort was greatly improved.






Aerospace aluminum alloy forging, G3 surface design, build automotive body flow lines, 6,000 tons pressure forging, body strength comparable to the public upgrade sports car, fully automated intelligent robot welding, to ensure consistent production, weighs only 7.8KG .




X version of the exclusive color code, containing courage, calm, rational, never give up the blue, is also a special version of the light bee X version of the user.





Stamp read the original

Order now to order light bees

The article was revised in 2018-06-01
Read more
 
This looks insane! But is it a limited edition production or it will stay available for buying at any time?
 
damn it the blue looks awesome

question can we upgrade components from early version model release to new foc controller etc.. , assuming all other electrical components will be big enough for the upgrade controller, or will it need a full system upgrade from batt wires thru to and including motor,...does anyone know if upgrade possible, just for new controller, be quieter and have more punch by the sounds,

all these upgrades on same frame hopefully user friendly and interchangeable to some degree

can we get vin number plate and upgrade road legal kit lights indicators etc..

not a big deal thou still using in bush/ forest where here in Australia still illegal even if registered but for cruising the street sections would definitely stop me looking over my shoulder, and commute to work for those that want would be awesome thru peak hour traffic .

hard seeing all these new mods, loving the v2 suits my needs now, pure off-road but....😂😭😂😭🙃🙃....
for sale 2 x v2 srlb 5k haha🙈🙈
 
beefcake_ground pigeon said:
damn it the blue looks awesome

question can we upgrade components from early version model release to new foc controller etc.. , assuming all other electrical components will be big enough for the upgrade controller, or will it need a full system upgrade from batt wires thru to and including motor,...does anyone know if upgrade possible, just for new controller, be quieter and have more punch by the sounds,

all these upgrades on same frame hopefully user friendly and interchangeable to some degree

can we get vin number plate and upgrade road legal kit lights indicators etc..

not a big deal thou still using in bush/ forest where here in Australia still illegal even if registered but for cruising the street sections would definitely stop me looking over my shoulder, and commute to work for those that want would be awesome thru peak hour traffic .

hard seeing all these new mods, loving the v2 suits my needs now, pure off-road but....😂😭😂😭🙃🙃....
for sale 2 x v2 srlb 5k haha🙈🙈

you can get a light kit and other upgrades (once available in the Sur-ron parts shop), etc but you can not get a retroactive VIN number from the manufacturer because VIN numbers are very specific to the bike, when, where, and with which motor and power, etc during manufacture

fedral.gif


but if your bike complies with your local state (country) motor vehicle codes then you may be able to be issued a VIN number by your local department of motor vehicles..
 
Rabid said:
Any thoughts on the new Light Bee X Edition model?

<drooling>

Thanks for sharing the links!

They are taking deposits with a listed delivery time of June 21st.

Its only ¥ 1,080 more than the standard 60-v light bee model. That translates to $168 US dollars. Take my money!!!

I contacted Luna to see if they plan on offering it, I'll report what I learn.
 
beefcake_ground pigeon said:
damn it the blue looks awesome

question can we upgrade components from early version model release to new foc controller etc.. , assuming all other electrical components will be big enough for the upgrade controller, or will it need a full system upgrade from batt wires thru to and including motor,...does anyone know if upgrade possible, just for new controller, be quieter and have more punch by the sounds,

all these upgrades on same frame hopefully user friendly and interchangeable to some degree

can we get vin number plate and upgrade road legal kit lights indicators etc..

not a big deal thou still using in bush/ forest where here in Australia still illegal even if registered but for cruising the street sections would definitely stop me looking over my shoulder, and commute to work for those that want would be awesome thru peak hour traffic .

hard seeing all these new mods, loving the v2 suits my needs now, pure off-road but....😂😭😂😭🙃🙃....
for sale 2 x v2 srlb 5k haha🙈🙈
The controller should be plug and play. The first time I contacted them was when Arthur started to talk about the FOC possibility last year, and they told me they were still in the beta phase of testing them, that you could buy one if you wanted for giving a feedback or any advice on how to improve it, etc. So, from what I get, if they are now pushing out this Model X with the FOC as stock controller, it means that it's now a mature enough and well-tested product.

I'm not really an expert about motor control techniques, but I remember in the past I read something like that sinewave controllers are smoother at low rpms, more efficient and thus give higher torque, but they also generate more heat than square controllers. Is that true? Somebody who had the chance to test both of them on the latest V2 Light Bee could tell me his impressions about which one is better and why? Thanks.

Another thing I'd like to understand is how the KERS is implemented in this Motor X version, and if it's possible to replicate that also on the standard Light bee.
 
So how fast does the current generation of Sur-Ron go? TOO FAST.
 

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About the new model X battery pack. What exactly did change? They really didn't share much. What are the new numbers for this new battery pack?
 
macribs said:
About the new model X battery pack. What exactly did change? They really didn't share much. What are the new numbers for this new battery pack?

As far as I can tell its the same pack but with an improved BMS chip.

I received a response from Luna:
Sorry we cannot comment on unreleased products that may or may not be part of in the upcoming lineup.

I translate that to: they would like to carry them, but if people know there is a much improved version for $168 more, it won't help them move their current inventory that they just received.
 
3DTOPO said:
I translate that to: they would like to carry them, but if people know there is a much improved version for $168 more, it won't help them move their current inventory that they just received.

You didn't even have to ask about that, it was pretty obvious for me that they still got plenty of bikes in stock and have to get rid of them before they announce something new (they could order them without letting anybody know it though). Also, it's not clear if this Model X will be just a limited edition subject to the number of preorders they get during these 3 weeks or if it will stay avaialble for purchase at any time.

I noticed they started to sell the brake and chain in the gold variant, so maybe they will do the same for the battery as well in the future. While I'm not sure about the seat upgrade: if they noticed that increasing the thickness and width makes it more comfty, why keep making the previous version? I see no reason to cut down costs on that.

I'm just wondering why they from 5kW to only 6kW when people here on forum said the BMS was limited at 9kW, so they could just deliver 9kW if they were going to make a more aggressive version and hit the 100km/h wall somehow.
 
racingame said:
3DTOPO said:
I translate that to: they would like to carry them, but if people know there is a much improved version for $168 more, it won't help them move their current inventory that they just received.

You didn't even have to ask about that, it was pretty obvious for me that they still got plenty of bikes in stock and have to get rid of them before they announce something new (they could order them without letting anybody know it though). Also, it's not clear if this Model X will be just a limited edition subject to the number of preorders they get during these 3 weeks or if it will stay avaialble for purchase at any time.

The uncertainty about long term availability is what compelled me to contact them. If its only available for the next three weeks, I would like to order one while I can.

Personally; if I ran Luna, I would accept an pre-order if a previous customer contacted me about a new version. They could take my money without making an announcement and it would fit in their next shipping container whether or not the rest of the container was filled with the standard model. What do they have to lose in that scenario?

I noticed they started to sell the brake and chain in the gold variant, so maybe they will do the same for the battery as well in the future. While I'm not sure about the seat upgrade: if they doubled the thickness to make it more comfty, I guess all future seats will be 10mm instead of 5mm? I see no reason to cut down costs on that.

Who started selling them, Luna? I saw on the Chinese site that they are selling the gold chain and the seat. If Luna offered the new controller, seat and chain I would order them. The battery is such an expensive component, I don't think I would order it since I am pretty content with the range it has now, instead I would opt for ordering a whole new model X since I want a second one anyway.
 
macribs said:
About the new model X battery pack. What exactly did change? They really didn't share much. What are the new numbers for this new battery pack?

Looking at the pics of the X version, it appears they are also running a 58T rear sprocket along with the FOC controller, DNM forks and upgraded, my guess is part of the performance increase comes from field weakening of the controller which allows the X to maintain the top speed of a standard Lightbee with a 48T and the larger 58T rear sprocket gives it a lot more punch in the process. I think the improved battery pack is the smallest part of the performance equation. What do you think?
 
Rix said:
macribs said:
About the new model X battery pack. What exactly did change? They really didn't share much. What are the new numbers for this new battery pack?

Looking at the pics of the X version, it appears they are also running a 58T rear sprocket along with the FOC controller, DNM forks and upgraded, my guess is part of the performance increase comes from field weakening of the controller which allows the X to maintain the top speed of a standard Lightbee with a 48T and the larger 58T rear sprocket gives it a lot more punch in the process. I think the improved battery pack is the smallest part of the performance equation. What do you think?

I know you weren't asking me, but I think you hit the nail on the head. I suspect the new battery pack gives it ~20% more range in addition to the performance improvements you mentioned.
 
My 9 year old is riding mine as of today. 20 min practice in eco mode, then had him switch to sport mode. He did just fine. 58T sprocket.

I have to say though, that his first ride was a 12.5 oset at age 2. Still, I was amazed how well he handled it.
 
3DTOPO said:
Who started selling them, Luna? I saw on the Chinese site that they are selling the gold chain and the seat. If Luna offered the new controller, seat and chain I would order them. The battery is such an expensive component, I don't think I would order it since I am pretty content with the range it has now, instead I would opt for ordering a whole new model X since I want a second one anyway.

I meant the Chinese site is selling them. This Model X seems to have a different motor as well because they declared 5400 rpm against the 4500 rpm of the standard model. They should really make an English translation with all the specs in evidence for the international public. I got the impression it's kinda a marketing move to leave things a bit unclear; I'd like to know how the regenerative brake was added.
 
All this news is exciting but I believe you are expecting too much too soon.

As someone who is dealing directly with the factory and has been a dealer for 6 months I doubt you will be able to get your hands on this version for months.

We were told to expect the road legal light bee and the white ghost by June.

Unfortunately the marketing team is 6 months ahead of the factory it’s called hype marketing.

I have received zero information confirming the X model specs, pricing or availability.

We have had 3 orders of bikes in 6 months.
Every shipment is promised a delivery date, then delayed.
I highly doubt that the shown website can deliver on the dates shown.
 
racingame said:
3DTOPO said:
Who started selling them, Luna? I saw on the Chinese site that they are selling the gold chain and the seat. If Luna offered the new controller, seat and chain I would order them. The battery is such an expensive component, I don't think I would order it since I am pretty content with the range it has now, instead I would opt for ordering a whole new model X since I want a second one anyway.

I meant the Chinese site is selling them. This Model X seems to have a different motor as well because they declared 5400 rpm against the 4500 rpm of the standard model. They should really make an English translation with all the specs in evidence for the international public. I got the impression it's kinda a marketing move to leave things a bit unclear; I'd like to know how the regenerative brake was added.

I think its the same motor. 5400 rpm is exactly 20% faster than 4500 rpm which is almost certainly due to the field-weakening of the new controller.
 
Aebrennan said:
As someone who is dealing directly with the factory and has been a dealer for 6 months I doubt you will be able to get your hands on this version for months.

I appreciate your insight as a dealer, but I would wager a bet that they don't miss their stated June 21st shipping date by months.
 
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