Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Dext3r   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Jun 05 2018 11:30am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Dext3r » Jun 05 2018 3:15pm

scrambler wrote:
Jun 05 2018 11:46am
Dext3r wrote:
Jun 05 2018 11:33am
Annyone take a look at this bike?
http://ekrossbikes.com/catalog/e-kross-pozitive-md/
Same as the vector Vortex
http://www.vectorebike.com/bikes/vortex.html
Ty
Looks like zero also made a similar bike buth is was brushed and way heavier (also out of production)
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-mx/2012/specs.php

artisanstone   10 W

10 W
Posts: 70
Joined: Mar 19 2018 1:54pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » Jun 05 2018 4:32pm

Rix wrote:
Jun 04 2018 9:44pm
It is I'm sure. He has good throttle control and some pretty good respect for it. He's been slowly ramping up. I can hear the wheelspins and motor sound increasing. He's a good mix of cautious and confident.
And that makes for a smart and fast rider. Any idea if your son will race MCs down the road?
I don't know. It's a spendy sport and fairly dangerous to boot. I could see competing in trials or something like that.

User avatar
scrambler   100 W

100 W
Posts: 263
Joined: Aug 10 2015 7:23pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area (USA)

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by scrambler » Jun 05 2018 7:05pm

Dext3r wrote:
Jun 05 2018 3:15pm
scrambler wrote:
Jun 05 2018 11:46am
Dext3r wrote:
Jun 05 2018 11:33am
Annyone take a look at this bike?
http://ekrossbikes.com/catalog/e-kross-pozitive-md/
Same as the vector Vortex
http://www.vectorebike.com/bikes/vortex.html
Ty
Looks like zero also made a similar bike buth is was brushed and way heavier (also out of production)
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-mx/2012/specs.php
Zero is a completely different category, these are actual full fledge motorcycles, registered as such, much more power, but much more weight.

n2mb   100 W

100 W
Posts: 208
Joined: May 25 2018 1:37pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » Jun 05 2018 7:08pm

Are there any other ebikes, escooters or electric mopeds with this kind of power and price that have a VIN number? I haven't found anything.

User avatar
scrambler   100 W

100 W
Posts: 263
Joined: Aug 10 2015 7:23pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area (USA)

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by scrambler » Jun 05 2018 9:09pm

n2mb wrote:
Jun 05 2018 7:08pm
Are there any other ebikes, escooters or electric mopeds with this kind of power and price that have a VIN number? I haven't found anything.
Homologation is the biggest issue with all these new ebikes, but we are finally seeing some of the manufacturer making a move in that direction which is nice.

LMX
https://www.lmxbikes.com/en/full-lmx-bi ... eride.html

or bultaco brinco come to mind.

racingame   100 W

100 W
Posts: 112
Joined: Jan 26 2018 9:40am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » Jun 05 2018 10:22pm

L1e Homologation is nice, but I really don't like to limit the power of a motor. I wish they did A1 homologation for enjoying unleashed 11kW beasts legally. :roll:

User avatar
scrambler   100 W

100 W
Posts: 263
Joined: Aug 10 2015 7:23pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area (USA)

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by scrambler » Jun 05 2018 11:26pm

racingame wrote:
Jun 05 2018 10:22pm
L1e Homologation is nice, but I really don't like to limit the power of a motor. I wish they did A1 homologation for enjoying unleashed 11kW beasts legally. :roll:
That would indeed be nice, but this is a whole lot more complicated and expensive to do, so likely much further down the line :)

Dext3r   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Jun 05 2018 11:30am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Dext3r » Jun 06 2018 1:45am

n2mb wrote:
Jun 05 2018 7:08pm
Are there any other ebikes, escooters or electric mopeds with this kind of power and price that have a VIN number? I haven't found anything.
They couldnt register them before
http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations ... g-10133672

sportsbud   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Jun 01 2018 5:41am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sportsbud » Jun 06 2018 3:15am

n2mb wrote:
Jun 05 2018 7:08pm
Are there any other ebikes, escooters or electric mopeds with this kind of power and price that have a VIN number? I haven't found anything.
I just got confirmation from Denzel Electric that all of their bikes after July 2018 will have a VIN number and come with a Certificate of Origin. Now depending on your states this may be enough to get it registered. I know in LA these bikes would most likely be classified as a Motor Driven Cycle as they produce under 5HP.

User avatar
scrambler   100 W

100 W
Posts: 263
Joined: Aug 10 2015 7:23pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area (USA)

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by scrambler » Jun 06 2018 10:13am

Dext3r wrote:
Jun 06 2018 1:45am
n2mb wrote:
Jun 05 2018 7:08pm
Are there any other ebikes, escooters or electric mopeds with this kind of power and price that have a VIN number? I haven't found anything.
They couldnt register them before
http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations ... g-10133672
"Retroactive anti Dumping duties...."
Does not sound good for you guys in Europe :)

racingame   100 W

100 W
Posts: 112
Joined: Jan 26 2018 9:40am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » Jun 06 2018 2:17pm

Anti-dumping should apply only to electric bicycles (e-bikes), not e-motos and e-scooters.

urbanmoto   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 17
Joined: Jan 23 2018 9:24am
Location: Lincoln
Contact:

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by urbanmoto » Jun 06 2018 11:29pm

Yes that’s clear , but existing model of off road light bee is certified as electric bicycle so EEC importers risk the penalty of upto 189% anti dumping duty being applied retrospectively to all imports from last month. EU madness how can you run an import business with this strong risk in the background. It can bankrupt even a strong established distributor overnight. Only option is to only import the homologation l1e version https://imgur.com/gallery/658TKaP

http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations ... s-10133806
Last edited by urbanmoto on Jun 07 2018 12:29am, edited 2 times in total.
Feel the silence of electric power

Dext3r   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Jun 05 2018 11:30am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Dext3r » Jun 07 2018 3:20am

scrambler wrote:
Jun 06 2018 10:13am
Dext3r wrote:
Jun 06 2018 1:45am
n2mb wrote:
Jun 05 2018 7:08pm
Are there any other ebikes, escooters or electric mopeds with this kind of power and price that have a VIN number? I haven't found anything.
They couldnt register them before
http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations ... g-10133672
"Retroactive anti Dumping duties...."
Does not sound good for you guys in Europe :)
In belguim you can get a discount off 750 euro for an e-scooter. :P

racingame   100 W

100 W
Posts: 112
Joined: Jan 26 2018 9:40am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » Jun 07 2018 8:35am

urbanmoto wrote:
Jun 06 2018 11:29pm
Yes that’s clear , but existing model of off road light bee is certified as electric bicycle [...].
Any proof of that? A site where you can check under what category was a vehicle registered in EU?

Anyway, if what you are stating is true, that would explain why a lot of dealers in EU decided to just sell the homologated version. The risk of antidumping bringing your business on its knees must be really frightening.

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6657
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jun 07 2018 9:34am

antidumping
What does this phrase mean? Hope I am not the only one in the dark. :oops:

User avatar
Allex   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3203
Joined: Dec 05 2011 8:46am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Jun 07 2018 11:17am

Oh well, just need to find time to test them!
Attachments
IMG_4758.jpg
IMG_4758.jpg (149.43 KiB) Viewed 1500 times

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6657
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jun 07 2018 2:02pm

Allex wrote:
Jun 07 2018 11:17am
Oh well, just need to find time to test them!
Patiently awaiting your findings.

User avatar
scrambler   100 W

100 W
Posts: 263
Joined: Aug 10 2015 7:23pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area (USA)

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by scrambler » Jun 07 2018 2:15pm

Rix wrote:
Jun 07 2018 9:34am
antidumping
What does this phrase mean? Hope I am not the only one in the dark. :oops:
In order to fight flooding of cheap e bikes from china into Europe, they are thinking of taxing them...

Aebrennan   100 W

100 W
Posts: 264
Joined: Jan 06 2017 4:08am
Location: Sydney New South Wales
Contact:

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Aebrennan » Jun 07 2018 2:24pm

Allex wrote:
Jun 07 2018 11:17am
Oh well, just need to find time to test them!
It’s nice to see they actually exist!
If you are too busy I know a few people keen on testing? 😀

User avatar
Allex   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3203
Joined: Dec 05 2011 8:46am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Jun 07 2018 2:44pm

Just hooked one up, at first it felt like riding without power(without throttle), motor is siiilent, you usually hear a distinct electrical cogging/buzzing coming from the motor, with this box you only hear the rattling from the chain and whining from the belt.
And yep, I think I feel more power now! But need to do the same hill torture test and add a clamp meter on the battery positive to get a reading.

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jun 07 2018 3:30pm

Allex wrote:
Jun 07 2018 2:44pm
Just hooked one up, at first it felt like riding without power(without throttle), motor is siiilent, you usually hear a distinct electrical cogging/buzzing coming from the motor, with this box you only hear the rattling from the chain and whining from the belt.
And yep, I think I feel more power now! But need to do the same hill torture test and add a clamp meter on the battery positive to get a reading.
Nice!

To really gain the benefit of more power due to field weakening, won't you have to gear it down? What size rear sprocket are you running?

Could you tell us how much they cost you?

User avatar
Allex   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3203
Joined: Dec 05 2011 8:46am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Jun 07 2018 3:41pm

I run stock drive train and yeah best is to gear down if you have FW. I dont have the prices yet as these were just samples, and not even sure if the final version will have the same settings. I think they will be worth every penny if you ask me. My guess is around 200-250USD?
Here is a video, you can definitely hear the difference when going slow. During fast runs you will not notice the difference.

urbanmoto   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 17
Joined: Jan 23 2018 9:24am
Location: Lincoln
Contact:

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by urbanmoto » Jun 07 2018 4:33pm

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 1036&rid=1

Beware The manufacturers plate on the off road light bee is clearly falling under this category, up to 189% anti dumping retrospective penalties possible and all units imported to the EEC now have to be registered with customs on a special register.
I also heard that off road light bee has no Ce mark on the bike so on this point alone it’s illegal to sell in EEC ! Any one know any different?
Feel the silence of electric power

Dext3r   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Jun 05 2018 11:30am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Dext3r » Jun 07 2018 6:06pm

urbanmoto wrote:
Jun 07 2018 4:33pm
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 1036&rid=1

Beware The manufacturers plate on the off road light bee is clearly falling under this category, up to 189% anti dumping retrospective penalties possible and all units imported to the EEC now have to be registered with customs on a special register.
I also heard that off road light bee has no Ce mark on the bike so on this point alone it’s illegal to sell in EEC ! Any one know any different?
At least there is https://leva-eu.com/about/ :mrgreen: going against the lobbying of EBMA

The off road version itself does not need a COC because its a non road vehicle. Been still an offroad "machine" it does need to meet the machine safety requirements. (race machines dont)

racingame   100 W

100 W
Posts: 112
Joined: Jan 26 2018 9:40am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » Jun 07 2018 7:02pm

I asked for a quote directly to SUR-RON not too long ago, I remember the FOC sinwave controller came for an extra 120$. They also told me the homologated version mounts it by default, together with DNM fork. I'm not sure if you can actually change some parts on that version or if you have to keep it like that because those were the components used when it was registered for L1e homologation in EU.
urbanmoto wrote:
Jun 07 2018 4:33pm
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 1036&rid=1

Beware The manufacturers plate on the off road light bee is clearly falling under this category, up to 189% anti dumping retrospective penalties possible and all units imported to the EEC now have to be registered with customs on a special register.
I also heard that off road light bee has no Ce mark on the bike so on this point alone it’s illegal to sell in EEC ! Any one know any different?
I don't get it. You are basically saying that any dealer who sold non-homologated Light Bee in EU did an illegal action?

Post Reply