New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 01 2018 12:45pm

pawepie wrote:
Jul 01 2018 8:55am
casainho wrote:
Jul 01 2018 7:27am
There are things asked over and over again on this thread, as new users arrive. To improve this, I suggest to create a FAQ wiki page on github and so new users should first read that page and will find that content when searching on google.

Volunteers to maintain this page?? It can be created on github, just like we started to do on OpenSource KT motor controllers firmware: https://github.com/stancecoke/BMSBatter ... mware/wiki

The edit of the wiki pages is very simple and can be done on the Internet browser. The wiki pages are text file + image files, that everyone will also be able to download and keep a backup -- this way, the hard work can be preserved by the authors and the community.
I think a wiki would be ideal - should we start one on your TSDZ2 controller page, or make a separate one? I'd be happy to help maintain the page.

@John and Cecil - is this an updated TSDZ2? Where did you hear this from? I'm aware of the TSDZ3, but I understand it's less of a kit than it needs a custom frame.
Good!! Please tell me your github account so I can add you. Here the wiki: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

Maybe you can start by adding information about "TSDZ3" and what is it. When I heard about TSDZ3, it took me sometime to understand it is not for DIY...
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 01 2018 1:48pm

My first FAQ entry:

Can I use a brake sensor for hydraulic brakes or the "hidden wire brakes sensor"?

See here the answer: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... i/wiki/FAQ
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by 905tim » Jul 01 2018 4:47pm

hobbyvac (June 10) asked about bearing numbers. The following is what I know:-
606RS - Motor shaft bearing outboard of pinion.
On first reduction gear shaft (blue plastic or brass gear)
608RS in motor housing.
609RS in one side of gear.
HF1216 (one way clutch) in other side of gear.
6001RS between blue gear and second reduction pinion.
csk30p sprag clutch in main gear.
Main drive shaft (LH end) ???????????

Tim

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Hillhater » Jul 01 2018 6:32pm

John and Cecil wrote:
Jul 01 2018 10:33am
....... The trick appears to require a load on the motor. If I hold the wheel off the ground it will kick for a second and then stop, but if I am on the bike and it kicks it will stay on as long as I hold the throttle, and after 30-60 seconds of full throttle everything works normally. But if I turn the unit off and back on I again have to wait for the kick and then hold the throttle before it will work normally again. Funny huh :)

Edit - 56.7v worked no problem, only took about 20 seconds to get it to kick. I guess I should try 57v 8)
I suspect its simply voltage sag...
.. when you put a significant load on the motor it will pull the battery voltage down a little.... (depending on the type of battery cell and the condition, age, SOC , etc)..into the acceptable operating range, <58v or there abouts.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Jul 01 2018 7:59pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 01 2018 6:32pm
I suspect its simply voltage sag...
.. when you put a significant load on the motor it will pull the battery voltage down a little.... (depending on the type of battery cell and the condition, age, SOC , etc)..into the acceptable operating range, <58v or there abouts.
I think that is partially the reason why it works, however the max voltage number is changing over time and slowly going up. I have never been able to even get it to kick over 56.5v in the past and several times I had to use a drill to drain the battery down to get it to work.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Jul 01 2018 8:02pm

905tim wrote:
Jul 01 2018 4:47pm
hobbyvac (June 10) asked about bearing numbers. The following is what I know:-
606RS - Motor shaft bearing outboard of pinion.
On first reduction gear shaft (blue plastic or brass gear)
608RS in motor housing.
609RS in one side of gear.
HF1216 (one way clutch) in other side of gear.
6001RS between blue gear and second reduction pinion.
csk30p sprag clutch in main gear.
Main drive shaft (LH end) ???????????

Tim
This thread really needs an index - *mental note to self* PAGE 104 contains bearing numbers! Thanks for the info, I am certain someday we will need these but I think Cecil may have a better memory than me!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 01 2018 8:19pm

John and Cecil wrote:
Jul 01 2018 8:02pm
905tim wrote:
Jul 01 2018 4:47pm
hobbyvac (June 10) asked about bearing numbers. The following is what I know:-
606RS - Motor shaft bearing outboard of pinion.
On first reduction gear shaft (blue plastic or brass gear)
608RS in motor housing.
609RS in one side of gear.
HF1216 (one way clutch) in other side of gear.
6001RS between blue gear and second reduction pinion.
csk30p sprag clutch in main gear.
Main drive shaft (LH end) ???????????

Tim
This thread really needs an index - *mental note to self* PAGE 104 contains bearing numbers! Thanks for the info, I am certain someday we will need these but I think Cecil may have a better memory than me!
This info can also be copy paste to the wiki, maybe to a page of mechanical section.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Jul 01 2018 9:23pm

Well we broke our throttle today at maybe 550 miles :( The thumb lever broke off the mechanism. It still works but there is nothing to grip. Anyone have any luck with aftermarket throttles? I would go with a twist throttle but that is not going to work well when I use the throttle as a clutch when I shift. I am going to need something with a thumb lever that isn't going to break so easily, and preferably for the left side :(

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Drum » Jul 02 2018 1:15am

Hi, To add to the knowledge base being assembled: From one of my earlier posts on how to change the torque sensor (page 88 of this thread):

The bearing(s) at the left-hand side of the pedal spindle are 28mm OD, 15mm ID, 7mm wide, type 6902RS, and the oil seal is the same size as the bearings.

On some earlier torque sensors, there are two bearings at the left-hand end of the pedal spindle, but on later versions there is only one. The bearing(s) and the oil seal are the same type in either case.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 02 2018 4:02am

I just added a section about blue nylon gear and metal gear, as also a section about brakes.

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... i/wiki/FAQ
Table of Contents
- Blue nylon and metal gears
-- Should I install the metal gear?
- Brakes
-- Should I install the brake sensors?
-- Can I use a brake sensor for hydraulic brakes or the "hidden wire brakes sensor"?
-- "hidden wire brakes sensor" on no throttle version
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » Jul 02 2018 7:57am

I am afraid I have some bad news about the purported new blue gear. After looking back at our conversation discussing the possible need for replacing it with our supplier, OKFeet at the time, the picture they sent us was of the LB gear.....Because during recent conversation with them they indicated that the latest motor we got was the latest itineration. It has the same blue gear. I am not sure why they sent a pic of the LB to us to begin with. Sorry about the confusion.

I did a little mod to mine. I drilled a small hole starting at the bottom of the housing that goes through the void behind the plastic cover and enters the gear housing. I got a needle grease applicator and now can inject a bit of fresh red and tacky, that quickly turns brown and yucky, direct to the gear whenever I want. Of course at some point it will become too much and I'll have to take it apart and clean it out but I figured it would not be harmful in any way and we'll see how it works out.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 02 2018 9:37am

Next feature I would like to implement on LCD3, is the configuration by the user of the battery top charged watts/hour value. Then, LCD3 discount the used watts/hour just like it does already (and it resets the counter when LCD3 is powered on and battery has 54.6V / is top charged).

The news here would be a counter from 0 up to 99 indicating the amount of available (or used?) watts/hour in the battery. This counter value could be printed on bottom left field of LCD3 (default for temperature).

Image

And for all of this, I will need to implement and structure the options menu. I am thinking to use wheel speed field to indicate the option menu number and the odometer field to indicate the option value.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Jul 02 2018 11:10am

AWD wrote:
Jul 02 2018 7:57am
I did a little mod to mine. I drilled a small hole starting at the bottom of the housing that goes through the void behind the plastic cover and enters the gear housing. I got a needle grease applicator and now can inject a bit of fresh red and tacky, that quickly turns brown and yucky, direct to the gear whenever I want. Of course at some point it will become too much and I'll have to take it apart and clean it out but I figured it would not be harmful in any way and we'll see how it works out.
No worries about the confusion, the company doesn't say a peep about anything so we must rely on gossip :)

I was thinking something similar. I would like to put a grease fitting on the motor and pump it up (like a trailer wheel "bearing buddy") but the grease would apparently get into the electronics. I guess this motor will require periodic disassembly to be re-greased. It is a shame we can't fill the gear case with manual transmission gear oil...

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Jul 02 2018 11:55am

And that is why Tongshen uses a plastic gear, that plastic gear has a selfing lubing effect and in theory doesn't need any grease, in some ways ( and I think there are far more knowledgeable on this than I ) grease actually speeds up the wear.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Jul 02 2018 12:18pm

Maybe for gears but not for bearings. Bearings love grease :)

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Jul 02 2018 1:50pm

casainho wrote:
Jul 02 2018 4:02am
I just added a section about blue nylon gear and metal gear, as also a section about brakes.

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... i/wiki/FAQ
Good stuff Casainho! Thanks! I can't help with the coding but I can help with the wiki. Let me know.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 02 2018 3:22pm

Rydon wrote:
Jul 02 2018 1:50pm
casainho wrote:
Jul 02 2018 4:02am
I just added a section about blue nylon gear and metal gear, as also a section about brakes.

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... i/wiki/FAQ
Good stuff Casainho! Thanks! I can't help with the coding but I can help with the wiki. Let me know.
Please register on GitHub and then tell me your ID so I can give you access.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hobbyvac » Jul 02 2018 3:34pm

Thanks to those who supplied the bearing numbers, that will save a lot of time for me. I wish we could by a rebuild kit.

As for upgrades don't forget there is a new sprocket holder that is heavier and has a real oil seal in it. Its a black color and the old style is silver.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by shaddi » Jul 02 2018 4:46pm

second XH18 arrived. Pastic on the PCB seems to be some sort of (soft) silicone.
Does anybody know how i can get the case apart? This rotary part seems to have some sort of lock inside and i cant get it off without breaking it..

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Hillhater » Jul 02 2018 5:22pm

John and Cecil wrote:
Jul 02 2018 12:18pm
Maybe for gears but not for bearings. Bearings love grease :)
..unless they are sealed , prelubed, bearings, as many are these days. (no idea about these though)
In that case , relubrication can reduce service life.
Even taking the cover off to relube the gears, breaks the warranty seal. ... For anyone that may be hoping for supplier support in the future. :?
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by m3lonbr3ad » Jul 02 2018 6:12pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 02 2018 5:22pm
John and Cecil wrote:
Jul 02 2018 12:18pm
Maybe for gears but not for bearings. Bearings love grease :)
..unless they are sealed , prelubed, bearings, as many are these days. (no idea about these though)
In that case , relubrication can reduce service life.
Even taking the cover off to relube the gears, breaks the warranty seal. ... For anyone that may be hoping for supplier support in the future. :?
FTC seems to indicate that explicitly denying warranty in that manner is illegal: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-r ... y-coverage

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kisazul » Jul 02 2018 6:45pm

Hi. I also have a 36V motor on one of my bikes. Already drove it about 300 km off-road. several times crossed small water fords. Twice the engine was opened for lubrication, since there was water there, apparently the seals do not strongly protect against water. Recently, I damaged my blue gear by climbing a steep hill. I ordered a brass gear. But I'm irritated not so much by the pinion as by the play in the bearings or their seats. Especially the forward bearing (csk30p) which had a backlash with the purchase. But recently on the Youtube channel, I saw another version of the tcdz2 motor, in which the stock gear rests on 4 bolts. Has better protection against water and better chain line. They also removed some metal from the engine mount to the carriage for deeper installation.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kisazul » Jul 02 2018 6:51pm

other side
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Hillhater » Jul 02 2018 11:12pm

m3lonbr3ad wrote:
Jul 02 2018 6:12pm
Hillhater wrote:
Jul 02 2018 5:22pm
Even taking the cover off to relube the gears, breaks the warranty seal. ... For anyone that may be hoping for supplier support in the future. :?
FTC seems to indicate that explicitly denying warranty in that manner is illegal: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-r ... y-coverage
Well , tell us how you think the FTC will get on enforcing its views on a chinese supplier ! ?
If you are lucky and bought from a reliable source ( and have not broken the seal, or modified the software, )..if the unit fails, you might persuade a Chinese supplier to help you with spares or even a replacement.
..but expecting them to comply with FTC regs... ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
..or, like many do, they may just refuse to correspond and ignor you completely.
I suspect, like most here, i put little value in a warranty on anything from china. Buy expecting no support ( other than from the likes of folks on here) and expect to have to do your own repairs or buy replacements.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by m3lonbr3ad » Jul 02 2018 11:38pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 02 2018 11:12pm
m3lonbr3ad wrote:
Jul 02 2018 6:12pm
Hillhater wrote:
Jul 02 2018 5:22pm
Even taking the cover off to relube the gears, breaks the warranty seal. ... For anyone that may be hoping for supplier support in the future. :?
FTC seems to indicate that explicitly denying warranty in that manner is illegal: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-r ... y-coverage
Well , tell us how you think the FTC will get on enforcing its views on a chinese supplier ! ?
If you are lucky and bought from a reliable source ( and have not broken the seal, or modified the software, )..if the unit fails, you might persuade a Chinese supplier to help you with spares or even a replacement.
..but expecting them to comply with FTC regs... ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
..or, like many do, they may just refuse to correspond and ignor you completely.
I suspect, like most here, i put little value in a warranty on anything from china. Buy expecting no support ( other than from the likes of folks on here) and expect to have to do your own repairs or buy replacements.
This was my further point. No one should have reservations to servicing/opening any of this stuff because the warranty seal you mentioned is generally meaningless.

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