New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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John and Cecil   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Jul 03 2018 12:04am

Yes I think the warranty is out. My motor did not even come with one piece of paper, no parts list, no instructions, no warranty, no nothing. I did receive an invoice with it but it was only for 1/3 the actual cost and it was very non descriptive. No one is even selling them here. You might as well lube em up!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 03 2018 2:12am

John and Cecil wrote:
Jul 03 2018 12:04am
Yes I think the warranty is out. My motor did not even come with one piece of paper, no parts list, no instructions, no warranty, no nothing. I did receive an invoice with it but it was only for 1/3 the actual cost and it was very non descriptive. No one is even selling them here. You might as well lube em up!
I think we should look on the other side, the advantages like:
- it is cheap
- we as individuals can buy the repair parts and again they are cheap
- there are official documents for how to do the repair
- there is a lot of shared knowledge from the community, even very deep technical knowledge!!

We can't expect warranty when this motor is being sold at very cheap price, without 100 or 200 percent margin to accommodate costs for warranty. Would we prefer to pay 1000 dollars for the motor and get warranty or pay the 350 dollars and have no warranty and have it "open" as it is, where we as individuals can buy cheap spare parts and have officail documents for repair??
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by shaddi » Jul 03 2018 7:51am

XH18 has a soft silicone coating on the PCB. After some fiddeling it looks like this:
IMG_20180703_144626_077_s.jpg
IMG_20180703_144626_077_s.jpg (209.88 KiB) Viewed 691 times
IMG_20180703_145810_507_s.jpg
Last edited by shaddi on Jul 03 2018 8:01am, edited 1 time in total.

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 03 2018 7:57am

shaddi wrote:
Jul 03 2018 7:51am
XH18 has a soft silicone coating on the PCB. After some fiddeling it looks like this:
IMG_20180703_144626_077_s.jpg
Interesting, because other user told it was hard epoxy.

That STM8 is near the same used on the motor controller. And just the same used on LCD3.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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John and Cecil   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Jul 03 2018 9:34am

casainho wrote:
Jul 03 2018 2:12am

We can't expect warranty when this motor is being sold at very cheap price, without 100 or 200 percent margin to accommodate costs for warranty. Would we prefer to pay 1000 dollars for the motor and get warranty or pay the 350 dollars and have no warranty and have it "open" as it is, where we as individuals can buy cheap spare parts and have officail documents for repair??
Yes I know, I knew what I was getting into when I ordered it. However I think Luna has been standing behind the Bafang BBSXX motors they sell and they are only about $100 more or so for the BBS02, at least they were when I ordered mine. In hindsight I think I should have ordered that motor instead. I went with this one due to the torque sensor and lighter weight, and the cheaper cost. But the Bafang BBS02 has a little more power and it has a lot of assist settings to adjust how it ramps up power in a simple user interface, and from what I hear it is very durable. I think when this motor starts going I will be going with that motor next time, perhaps I will even try to sell my motor and upgrade sooner. I am going to look into that motor some more when I have some spare time.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by v3po » Jul 03 2018 2:07pm

Been lurking here long time thinking to buy TSDZ2 or Bafang motor. Reason I've been afraid to end up buing are all these maintenance issues, issues with nylon gear etc. I've been reading about.

I would be only using it for on-road work commuting and would prefer TSDZ2 for torque sensor.

I would appreciate your opinion whether I would be fine with 250W setup, only used with pedal assistant without any issues/maintenances needed?

Thanks

m3lonbr3ad   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by m3lonbr3ad » Jul 03 2018 4:25pm

v3po wrote:
Jul 03 2018 2:07pm
Been lurking here long time thinking to buy TSDZ2 or Bafang motor. Reason I've been afraid to end up buing are all these maintenance issues, issues with nylon gear etc. I've been reading about.

I would be only using it for on-road work commuting and would prefer TSDZ2 for torque sensor.

I would appreciate your opinion whether I would be fine with 250W setup, only used with pedal assistant without any issues/maintenances needed?

Thanks
FWIW: I have the 750W, but use it exclusively in pedal assist for road commuting 10mi(16km) daily. IMO this is exactly what this motor is designed for, light use and occasionally-spirited riding. The only issue I have had so far was a loose left crank arm that may have been my own fault (though I do recall torquing it correctly). I haven't noticed anything about my motor's operation that leads me to believe the nylon gear, or anything else is wearing prematurely, but I only have about 400mi(640km) so far. My setup as pictured weighs 38.5lbs (17.5kg)

Image

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Jul 03 2018 7:02pm

Thats the way to go for commuting :)

I have mine on a dual suspension bike and find it very tiring.
In fact I find it easier just to peddle my racer in to work without a motor !!

So if you want a commuter then use is on a light frame racer and you should be right.
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Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=150

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by kortina » Jul 03 2018 10:36pm

I have the 52v (750w) on a dual suspension and it is sooo much fun to ride. It certainly isn't hard.

I can only imagine what the 52v setup would be like on an efficient bike!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » Jul 04 2018 9:14am

"The only issue I have had so far was a loose left crank arm that may have been my own fault (though I do recall torquing it correctly)."

This is an all too common occurrence with square taper cranks set up from new. You can torque them down to spec while building the system but even after a short test ride you should re-torque them, you will be surprised how much more it will take, and then check after a good ride on them and don't be surprised if they also take more wrench. This is due to the alu crank seating on the steel taper which will eventually find its seat. Good idea on a new build to keep an eye on them for sure as if they stay loose for too long they will wallow and you will never get them to stay tight.

I much prefer my hub road bikes for road work over the TS. But it works just right on my mtb for that use. While it does ok on the road to the trailhead if you ride them back to back the hub bike is much more effective, at least for my needs YMMV. Glad I have both in the stable though!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AZUR » Jul 04 2018 9:22am

I need some help Please.

I have a 36V 350W motor. I´m using Windows7 professional.

I am trying do modify memory of the TSDZ2 in order to increase the minimum voltage.

My battery has a minimum voltage of 29V but the motor controller stops at 32V.
photo bateria 31_4 V 30%.jpg
photo bateria 31_4 V 30%.jpg (26.51 KiB) Viewed 532 times
Casainho has been doing a great job. Casainho did make some tools to modify the controller memory as indicated in the link:

(TSDZ2 configure battery voltage and motor current)
https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... rrent.html

I did buy the ST-Link V2 STM8 STM32 as in the image:
stlink V2 30%.jpg
stlink V2 30%.jpg (59.89 KiB) Viewed 532 times
I´m using STLink Utility for Windows because I´m not an expert Linux user.

After some tests I got the connection with ST-Link adapter and I did upgrade the ST-LinkV2 firmware with the windows STLink Utility.

But when I try to connect with the STZ2 motor I get the message :

"ST_Lin USB Communication Error"
STLINK USB communication error 50%.jpg
STLINK USB communication error 50%.jpg (24.79 KiB) Viewed 532 times
I`m using a Deel computer and in the following link somebody says he solve the problem with power modifications. I did not understand how did he solve the problem.

https://community.st.com/thread/48018-s ... ent-188597

I also bought KT-LCD3 display to install the new firmware.

But, as I describe, I´m having lots of troubles to use the ST-link HW and Sw.

Anybody has an idea how to solve this USB error message?

Thanks

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John and Cecil   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Jul 04 2018 10:45am

jbalat wrote:
Jul 03 2018 7:02pm
Thats the way to go for commuting :)

I have mine on a dual suspension bike and find it very tiring.
In fact I find it easier just to peddle my racer in to work without a motor !!

So if you want a commuter then use is on a light frame racer and you should be right.
Maybe it is your tires. When I first got my mid-fat ds bike it was brutal to pedal, especially with 40 lbs of cargo. But after pumping up the 2.8" wide tires until they were fairly hard helped it roll much, much better. The suspension works just well enough to make up for the hard tires. Perhaps you could try a fast rolling tire pumped up to a higher pressure. I have been wanting to try the schwalbe super moto x tires, although they are not rated as fast rolling tires they look like they would handle and grip really well on a fs street bike.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Jul 04 2018 11:28am

AWD wrote:
Jul 02 2018 7:57am


I did a little mod to mine. I drilled a small hole starting at the bottom of the housing that goes through the void behind the plastic cover and enters the gear housing. I got a needle grease applicator and now can inject a bit of fresh red and tacky, that quickly turns brown and yucky, direct to the gear whenever I want. Of course at some point it will become too much and I'll have to take it apart and clean it out but I figured it would not be harmful in any way and we'll see how it works out.
Did you take any pics of you mod per chance? I assume you have to take the crank off to grease the system? I am thinking about doing the same. My motor use to make an occasional cluck sound, always when the left hand crank reaches the engine (my first thought is always that the crank is hitting the motor housing but it is not). Lately it is happening more frequently and I only have about 600 miles on the motor now. I think I want to pull it apart and grease the crap out of it. I dislike removing the cranks though, my tool sucks and I stripped one of the original crank arms removing it before installing the motor. Thank you!

m3lonbr3ad   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by m3lonbr3ad » Jul 04 2018 12:51pm

AWD wrote:
Jul 04 2018 9:14am
"The only issue I have had so far was a loose left crank arm that may have been my own fault (though I do recall torquing it correctly)."

This is an all too common occurrence with square taper cranks set up from new. You can torque them down to spec while building the system but even after a short test ride you should re-torque them, you will be surprised how much more it will take, and then check after a good ride on them and don't be surprised if they also take more wrench. This is due to the alu crank seating on the steel taper which will eventually find its seat. Good idea on a new build to keep an eye on them for sure as if they stay loose for too long they will wallow and you will never get them to stay tight.

I much prefer my hub road bikes for road work over the TS. But it works just right on my mtb for that use. While it does ok on the road to the trailhead if you ride them back to back the hub bike is much more effective, at least for my needs YMMV. Glad I have both in the stable though!
Agreed regarding the necessary retorqing for square taper cranks. I should have checked them more often after the build. Also freshened the blue loctite a bit after addressing the underlying problem. Things seem very solid now.

I had considered a hub motor but really wanted to keep my wheels as configured. Also, I had ridden with loaded panniers in the past and really disliked the weight distribution. Taking turns felt uneasy and just walking the bike around was much more trouble with weight not being centered. This led me to the mid drive setups and decided that the tsdz2 would be my first ebike build. Really happy with it so far. If I can get two years trouble free, I'd consider it a definite success.

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TSDZ2 display lights up but motor won't work

Post by billm » Jul 04 2018 2:47pm

Was working fine last night but took the battery off to charge. Full charge this morning, lights and display work, but motor doesn't come on.

This is only the second time I've charged the battery and noticed something similar the last time too, though in that case the motor began working again in short order.

This is a 48v tsdz2 with a 17.5Ah 52v battery. All wiring looks to be seated. Is there some factory reset I can perform?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by aja » Jul 04 2018 3:18pm

billm wrote:
Jul 04 2018 2:47pm
Was working fine last night but took the battery off to charge. Full charge this morning, lights and display work, but motor doesn't come on.

This is only the second time I've charged the battery and noticed something similar the last time too, though in that case the motor began working again in short order.

This is a 48v tsdz2 with a 17.5Ah 52v battery. All wiring looks to be seated. Is there some factory reset I can perform?
The problem you have is that you are trying to use a 52V battery with a 48V motor/controller; the 52V will charge to approx 58V, too high for the 48V controller to recognise it. The battery has to discharge a bit first before the motor will operate.

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Re: TSDZ2 display lights up but motor won't work

Post by John and Cecil » Jul 04 2018 4:32pm

billm wrote:
Jul 04 2018 2:47pm
Was working fine last night but took the battery off to charge. Full charge this morning, lights and display work, but motor doesn't come on.

This is only the second time I've charged the battery and noticed something similar the last time too, though in that case the motor began working again in short order.

This is a 48v tsdz2 with a 17.5Ah 52v battery. All wiring looks to be seated. Is there some factory reset I can perform?
Do you have a throttle? If so you can try riding around slowly (under 5mph), turn on the light switch and put assist on turbo and hold the throttle on full while riding around slowly. If the motor kicks on don't let off the throttle and ride it for at least a full min at full throttle, it should work ok after that. Otherwise you can run your battery down a little. My motor works fine under 55.8v and I have gotten it to work with the "kick and throttle" method at up to 56.7v so far. Generally I charge my 52v battery to just under 58v (reading while charger is running). It will then drop down to about 56.5v after it rests a few mins and I can get it to start with the kick throttle method after a minute or two of pedaling slowly. I use to charge to 56.8v or so and then it would drop to 55.4 or so and work fine without needing to kick start it. :)

There is a way to flash the firmware to remove the upper limit on the battery, or you can replace the 48v controller with a 52v controller when they start selling them.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by billm » Jul 04 2018 4:50pm

Thank you! This is quite helpful. I was under the impression that the 52v battery was backwards compatible. Apparently not.

I don't suppose any of you can tell me where I find details on how to flash the controller to remove the limit?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 04 2018 5:12pm

AZUR wrote:
Jul 04 2018 9:22am
I need some help Please.

I´m using STLink Utility for Windows because I´m not an expert Linux user.

After some tests I got the connection with ST-Link adapter and I did upgrade the ST-LinkV2 firmware with the windows STLink Utility.

But when I try to connect with the STZ2 motor I get the message :

"ST_Lin USB Communication Error"
I am sorry that I can't help because I do not use Windows. I would say that probably is an issue with the drivers???? I think you should search on google because that STLinkV2 clone is very well known and probably you should find there information. But there are users here on the forum that already flashed the firmware on Windows, maybe they are busy and can't help you now.

When you get it working, would be great if you could write on wiki page about that, to help the other users like you.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by pawepie » Jul 04 2018 5:20pm

I've been able to flash both the TSDZ2 controller and the LCD3 using Windows and Linux.

Are you using ST Visual Developer? STM8S105x4 for the TSDZ2? Do you have the controller powered on, or are you using the 5v pin and powering the chip via USB? I've been using the later method more often as I find it simpler.
AZUR wrote:
Jul 04 2018 9:22am
I need some help Please.

I have a 36V 350W motor. I´m using Windows7 professional.

I am trying do modify memory of the TSDZ2 in order to increase the minimum voltage.

My battery has a minimum voltage of 29V but the motor controller stops at 32V.
photo bateria 31_4 V 30%.jpg

Casainho has been doing a great job. Casainho did make some tools to modify the controller memory as indicated in the link:

(TSDZ2 configure battery voltage and motor current)
https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... rrent.html

I did buy the ST-Link V2 STM8 STM32 as in the image:

stlink V2 30%.jpg

I´m using STLink Utility for Windows because I´m not an expert Linux user.

After some tests I got the connection with ST-Link adapter and I did upgrade the ST-LinkV2 firmware with the windows STLink Utility.

But when I try to connect with the STZ2 motor I get the message :

"ST_Lin USB Communication Error"

STLINK USB communication error 50%.jpg

I`m using a Deel computer and in the following link somebody says he solve the problem with power modifications. I did not understand how did he solve the problem.

https://community.st.com/thread/48018-s ... ent-188597

I also bought KT-LCD3 display to install the new firmware.

But, as I describe, I´m having lots of troubles to use the ST-link HW and Sw.

Anybody has an idea how to solve this USB error message?

Thanks

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Jul 04 2018 9:29pm

billm wrote:
Jul 04 2018 4:50pm
Thank you! This is quite helpful. I was under the impression that the 52v battery was backwards compatible. Apparently not.

I don't suppose any of you can tell me where I find details on how to flash the controller to remove the limit?
There is some info scattered about in this thread, I would say in the last 30 pages or so. First you need to get that st visual programmer software that some people are always talking about. You also need to cut your speed sensor (or buy a second one) and wire that to a usb wire and plug. Then you need to edit certain variables or download the 52v controller firmware and reflash with that. I myself have been avoiding that for now and I just undercharge my battery by a volt or two as this is also good for the battery and should add a lot of recharging cycles (from what I have read).

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Jul 04 2018 9:33pm

I am getting a clunking sound on my motor, when I first got the motor it would happen every now and then but maybe only once every 1/2 mile or so. Now it is doing it quite frequently, and the crank is always in the same position when it happens. Sometimes it will happen 10 times in a row on each revolution. It sounds like it is coming from the left side and not the right. Anyone have any ideas? Is this what happens when the nylon gear sheds a tooth maybe? I would just take it apart but it is my only transportation at the moment and if it may be the dreaded blue gear I probably better order a replacement gear before I start taking it apart.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Maidaa » Jul 04 2018 11:33pm

John and Cecil wrote:
Jul 04 2018 9:33pm
I am getting a clunking sound on my motor, when I first got the motor it would happen every now and then but maybe only once every 1/2 mile or so. Now it is doing it quite frequently, and the crank is always in the same position when it happens. Sometimes it will happen 10 times in a row on each revolution. It sounds like it is coming from the left side and not the right. Anyone have any ideas? Is this what happens when the nylon gear sheds a tooth maybe? I would just take it apart but it is my only transportation at the moment and if it may be the dreaded blue gear I probably better order a replacement gear before I start taking it apart.
Try to retighten the crank arms.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AZUR » Jul 05 2018 8:04am

pawepie wrote:
Jul 04 2018 5:20pm
I've been able to flash both the TSDZ2 controller and the LCD3 using Windows and Linux.

Are you using ST Visual Developer? STM8S105x4 for the TSDZ2? Do you have the controller powered on, or are you using the 5v pin and powering the chip via USB? I've been using the later method more often as I find it simpler.
AZUR wrote:
Jul 04 2018 9:22am
I need some help Please.

I have a 36V 350W motor. I´m using Windows7 professional.

I am trying do modify memory of the TSDZ2 in order to increase the minimum voltage.

My battery has a minimum voltage of 29V but the motor controller stops at 32V.
photo bateria 31_4 V 30%.jpg

Casainho has been doing a great job. Casainho did make some tools to modify the controller memory as indicated in the link:

(TSDZ2 configure battery voltage and motor current)
https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... rrent.html

I did buy the ST-Link V2 STM8 STM32 as in the image:

stlink V2 30%.jpg

I´m using STLink Utility for Windows because I´m not an expert Linux user.

After some tests I got the connection with ST-Link adapter and I did upgrade the ST-LinkV2 firmware with the windows STLink Utility.

But when I try to connect with the STZ2 motor I get the message :

"ST_Lin USB Communication Error"

STLINK USB communication error 50%.jpg

I`m using a Deel computer and in the following link somebody says he solve the problem with power modifications. I did not understand how did he solve the problem.

https://community.st.com/thread/48018-s ... ent-188597

I also bought KT-LCD3 display to install the new firmware.

But, as I describe, I´m having lots of troubles to use the ST-link HW and Sw.

Anybody has an idea how to solve this USB error message?

Thanks
Thanks pawepie,

Casainho kindly did some "tools" in order to "configure battery voltage and motor current" in this link:

https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... rrent.html

As described in the link I wired the STLINKV2 to the TSDZ2 wheel speed sensor cable.

(from Casainho link)

Here is the list of wires:
The connections from wheel speed sensor to STLinkV2 clone:
• Purple wire connect to STLinkV2 RST pin
• Orange wire connect to STLinkV2 GND pin
• Black wire connect to STLinkV2 SWIM pin


I did also installed the STLink Utility for windows and I did power on the TSDZ2 Motor when I connect STVlinkV2 to the motor (Controller)


From Casainho links we get:
"• wheel speed sensor cable
◇ this cable carries the wires for STLinkV2, that is used to program and debug the firmware
◇ this cable carries the wires for the wheel speed sensor
◇ list of the wires and functions:
▪ orange wire | GND | used for: STLinkV2; wheel speed sensor
▪ brown wire | VCC | used for: STLinkV2 (optional); wheel speed sensor
▪ purple wire | RST | used for: STLinkV2
▪ black wire | SWIM | used for: STLinkV2
▪ white wire | wheel speed sensor | used for: wheel speed sensor. This signal is active low,
meaning that when magnet is not in front of the sensor, this wire has 5V and with magnet in front,
this wire has 0 volts.
▪ green wire | 6V for lights | 6V only when display back light is enabled
"

Do you pawepie ( or casainho) think I can try to connect, the brown wire (VCC) from the wheel speed sensor to STLinkV2 5V pin?

If I connect the brown wire, I do not turn on the STDZ2 motor.

For me, now, ST Visual Developer is to complicated. I would like to try again with STLink Utility for windows.

thanks

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hobbyvac » Jul 05 2018 8:27am

Maidaa wrote:
Jul 04 2018 11:33pm
John and Cecil wrote:
Jul 04 2018 9:33pm
I am getting a clunking sound on my motor, when I first got the motor it would happen every now and then but maybe only once every 1/2 mile or so. Now it is doing it quite frequently, and the crank is always in the same position when it happens. Sometimes it will happen 10 times in a row on each revolution. It sounds like it is coming from the left side and not the right. Anyone have any ideas? Is this what happens when the nylon gear sheds a tooth maybe? I would just take it apart but it is my only transportation at the moment and if it may be the dreaded blue gear I probably better order a replacement gear before I start taking it apart.
Try to retighten the crank arms.
Or check pedal bearings. I had one that spun fine but under load would clunk but not all the time. A ball in the bearing fractures and gets a flat spot that comes around sometimes and rolls fine other times

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