New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Maidaa said:
Try to retighten the crank arms.

Thank you, it was actually quite loose :) I forgot but when I installed the motor I stripped the Suntour crank arm removing it so I did not tighten these cranks too much in case I needed to remove them again. We will give it a try in a little while, hopefully that will correct the noise issue. I guess it make sense because the crank arm is always in the same place when it makes the noise, and it is about the location where it gets the most torque.

If the crank tightening does not fix it I will order new bearings and a new gear. I would like to take the motor apart to grease it, China is known for skimping on grease and lubricants. When I bought my Harbor Freight folding trailer a lot of people were complaining about hosing their bearings due to lack of grease in the wheel hubs.

Edit we just took it for a 3 mile ride and not one "clunk". The loose crank was the issue. I was hoping it was not the bearing with only 600 miles on it! I guess I can put off opening it up for a while longer:) Thanks!
 
AZUR said:
For me, now, ST Visual Developer is to complicated. I would like to try again with STLink Utility for windows.

thanks

There is a Tutorial how to set up the toolchain with Windows, see my signature, chapter „installing the Software“

regards
stancecoke
 
John and Cecil said:
I am getting a clunking sound on my motor, when I first got the motor it would happen every now and then but maybe only once every 1/2 mile or so. Now it is doing it quite frequently, and the crank is always in the same position when it happens. Sometimes it will happen 10 times in a row on each revolution. It sounds like it is coming from the left side and not the right. Anyone have any ideas? Is this what happens when the nylon gear sheds a tooth maybe? I would just take it apart but it is my only transportation at the moment and if it may be the dreaded blue gear I probably better order a replacement gear before I start taking it apart.

That is the same type noise I got after my second ride. Removal and inspection of the blue gear showed that a small chunk had flaked off. I replaced it with the brass gear with red and tacky grease and has been problem free of over 800 miles of hard use.
 
AWD said:
That is the same type noise I got after my second ride. Removal and inspection of the blue gear showed that a small chunk had flaked off. I replaced it with the brass gear with red and tacky grease and has been problem free of over 800 miles of hard use.

Tightening up my crank appeared to fix the noise issue. That is not saying there isn't any damage to the nylon gear too, especially considering all the weight we are pushing and the amount of people having problems with it. Hopefully I can wait a couple more months before I can take it apart. I will be staying in NY for a few weeks and they don't allow ebikes there (state gov't run by oil company cronies) so that will be the ideal time to open it up and perform some preventive maintenance.

I wonder if there is a way to seal the gear cavity off from the electronics so more grease can be packed in there?
 
AZUR said:
Do you pawepie ( or casainho) think I can try to connect, the brown wire (VCC) from the wheel speed sensor to STLinkV2 5V pin?
I always not connect the brown wire (VCC) and I turn on the TSDZ2 to be able to program.

AZUR said:
I have a 36V 350W motor. I´m using Windows7 professional.

I am trying do modify memory of the TSDZ2 in order to increase the minimum voltage.

My battery has a minimum voltage of 29V but the motor controller stops at 32V.
I wish you can test that and it works because I have the same needs -- I want to use the max of battery on long rides.

I hope soon to start working again on our OpenSource firmware, with that we will have the full knowledge and possibilities.
 
More info on bearings.
There are two needle roller bearings HK2214 (22x28x14) locating the torque tube, to which the torque sensor is attached, in the tubular section of the main body. Note that all deep groove ball bearings in the unit carry the suffix to their part numbers "RS". this should be "2RS" since they are all double sealed bearings.
A number of people have commented on what appears to be excessive radial and axial clearance in bearings. Some of the bearing fits in my unit are very loose. That on the non drive side of the spindle is very loose on the shaft and in bearing housing. The drive end of the spindle is a sliding fit in the end of the torque tube (no bearing since both rotate together).There is probably 2 thou total radial movement at both ends of the spindle. Axial end float is taken care of by shim washers. One advantage of all this looseness is that it makes dismantling and reassembly very easy.

I agree with some recent posters that minimizing weight is advantageous. I am using a 90's steel frame with minimal accessories, a 52V/7Ah battery. I only ever use ECO or TOUR, average about 25/28 km/hr, and get 45 to55 km range. No, it's not very fast, but at 80 years of age I intend to be around a lot longer!
 
Hi 905tim,
Im guessing you are mainly riding pavement (road) to average those speeds ?..you seem to average 7-8 Wh/km.
For reference , i am running a dual suspension Specialized FSR with 2.2" mud tyres mostly off road , trails etc in a hilly area. I have checked with a wattmeter and return between 8-10 Wh/km whilst averaging 20 km/hr on those trails.
A question for all, ...
maybe i missed it in the previous pages, but do we know if it possible to "unlock" the "Power" setting in the menu ?
...without having to go to the reflashing the program route ?
Some users believe they have detected differences in power after changes to the setting, but most accept that it is locked to "16" .
It seems odd that it has been included in the menue options, but apparently disabled.
Have we asked Tongsheng ?
 
stancecoke said:
AZUR said:
For me, now, ST Visual Developer is to complicated. I would like to try again with STLink Utility for windows.

thanks

There is a Tutorial how to set up the toolchain with Windows, see my signature, chapter „installing the Software“

regards
stancecoke

I am going to try STVD.

Thanks
 
casainho said:
AZUR said:
Do you pawepie ( or casainho) think I can try to connect, the brown wire (VCC) from the wheel speed sensor to STLinkV2 5V pin?
I always not connect the brown wire (VCC) and I turn on the TSDZ2 to be able to program.

AZUR said:
I have a 36V 350W motor. I´m using Windows7 professional.

I am trying do modify memory of the TSDZ2 in order to increase the minimum voltage.

My battery has a minimum voltage of 29V but the motor controller stops at 32V.
I wish you can test that and it works because I have the same needs -- I want to use the max of battery on long rides.

I hope soon to start working again on our OpenSource firmware, with that we will have the full knowledge and possibilities.

I hope I can try it.

I did already receive the new dispay LCD3 and I will try to flash it.

Thanks
 
AZUR said:
I did already receive the new dispay LCD3 and I will try to flash it.
LCD3 original firmware is read protected (unlike TSDZ2 original firmware) and the very first thing you will need to do is erase/write default values of option bytes to disable the protection.
 
AZUR said:
I am going to try STVD.

You will see nothing of the STVD, we are using just the command-line flashing tool of it. This is automatcally called if you doubleclick on start_compiling.bat
So don't worry about the use of STVD.
@casainho: is the windows makefile adapted to the TSDZ2 code already?!

regards
stancecoke
 
casainho said:
LCD3 original firmware is read protected (unlike TSDZ2 original firmware) and the very first thing you will need to do is erase/write default values of option bytes to disable the protection.
just received my LCD3, too. Had to search a lot on the bitbucket page for "how to erase the protection". It should be on the page "Install our KT-LCD3 firmware".

Does the display show anything without valid pakets on the serial port? The original firmware just came up with +5volt on the ISP-Port and showed the main display. After flashing the new firmware, the display is empty. I have no way to inject valid pakets at the moment...
 
A number of people have commented on what appears to be excessive radial and axial clearance in bearings. Some of the bearing fits in my unit are very loose. That on the non drive side of the spindle is very loose on the shaft and in bearing housing. The drive end of the spindle is a sliding fit in the end of the torque tube (no bearing since both rotate together).There is probably 2 thou total radial movement at both ends of the spindle. Axial end float is taken care of by shim washers. One advantage of all this looseness is that it makes dismantling and reassembly very easy.

I was wondering if they were sealed both sides. I'm thinking I can red locktite the loose bearings into the housing and eliminate at least some of the play? Possibly have the shaft plated and re-ground too. I guess their quality control isn't the best?
 
Hillhater said:
A question for all, ...
maybe i missed it in the previous pages, but do we know if it possible to "unlock" the "Power" setting in the menu ?
...without having to go to the reflashing the program route ?
Some users believe they have detected differences in power after changes to the setting, but most accept that it is locked to "16" .
It seems odd that it has been included in the menue options, but apparently disabled.
Have we asked Tongsheng ?

I tested this on my motor when I was trying to determine my max battery amp output. That menu setting does absolutely nothing, or at least it doesn't on my 48v 750w with vlcd5 display and throttle. I set my amps to 18, 16, 12, 8, 4, and 2 and attempted to climb a fairly steep hill. At all power settings I was climbing at the exact same speed at the same section of the hill. I then posted my results here in this thread and the responses that I received was that the motor power amps function does not work.
 
Sorry Azur - I meant STVP (ST Visual Programmer)

Remember, use the STM8S105x4 for the TSDZ2 Controller and the STM8S105x6 for the LCD3

I used Casainho's link and did the following (both under windows using STVP and linux using the toolchain)
• Purple wire connect to STLinkV2 RST pin
• Orange wire connect to STLinkV2 GND pin
• Black wire connect to STLinkV2 SWIM pin[/i][/b]
***I use BROWN to pull 5V from the STLinkV2 to the controller***
- note, I also used the battery power to TSDZ2 controller instead of BROWN wire: both have been equal solutions for me

*note that once flashed, you need to disconnect the STLinkV2 complete from the device, or you will get an error if you try to run from the battery while it is still plugged in.

Using STVP, for the TSDZ2 controller, I flashed the STM8S105x4 under the DATA MEMORY tab to modify the EEPROM (use Casainho's instructions: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/kunteng_lcd3/TSDZ2_configure_battery_voltage_and_motor_current.html)

I then flashed the firmware for it could send more data to the LCD3 using the PROGRAM MEMORY tab and this file: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TongSheng_TSDZ2_motor_controller_firmware/blob/master/TSDZ2_original_firmware_and_improved/TSDZ2_improved_original_firmware-v3.bin

Then with the LCD3, I used this to help me (https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/kunteng_lcd3/LCD3_on_TSDZ2--Install_our_KT-LCD3_firmware.html)
However,

• pin1: **I used 5V from the STLinkV2 5V pin
• pin2: connect to STLinkV2 SWIM pin
• pin3: connect to STLinkV2 GND pin
• pin4: connect to STLinkV2 RST pin


I used STVP and selected the STM8S105x6 chip, then I flashed the OPTION BYTES tab to remove protection and allow the signals to go through (I'm attaching the file to this message).
option_bytes_pwm_n_channels_enabled.bin

and then for the firmware itself (PROGRAM MEMORY tab under STVP), I compiled the latest code (fixing the 25.5km/h display limit not included in the v3 .bin at the time). I'm attaching it as this file below.
LCD3_TSDZ2_firmware_july6.bin

I found I had to wire the LCD3 to the TSDZ2 cable like this:

KT-LCD3 | TSDZ2 LCD cable
• red wire | (P+) battery voltage
• blue wire | Vin
• black wire | GND ground
• green wire | UART TX motor controller
• yellow wire | UART RX motor controller

*I don't think he updated the instructions online yet (TX and RX are supposed to be switched like above)

files here from my dropbox: (unable to attach them here)
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rg0w644gxy2z987/AACpaEH26Yw3IY_SxDiaeVUsa?dl=0

Let me know if this all works for you, and then I can add it to the wiki (cleaned up a bit)
 
pawepie said:
Let me know if this all works for you, and then I can add it to the wiki (cleaned up a bit)
Yes, add to wiki right now!!
 
John and Cecil said:
.... At all power settings I was climbing at the exact same speed at the same section of the hill. I then posted my results here in this thread and the responses that I received was that the motor power amps function does not work.
Yes, i have also confirmed using an ammeter that changing the setting does nothing ..Amp limit fixed at 16 (16.7 on my ammeter). 48v, 750w, unit ..Software version 3.6 on the display.
But my question for those digging into the software/firmware is..
This was obviously planned and set up as a "User adjustable". Setting on the controller display menu...presumeably with the corresponding multi amp setting options in the firmware...but it is disabled aparently.
All i am wondering is, ..maybe there is a relatively simple change in the software to "unlock" those menue options ?
I certainly know my limitations beyond a menu interface prevent me figuring it out.
 
Hillhater said:
Yes, i have also confirmed using an ammeter that changing the setting does nothing ..Amp limit fixed at 16 (16.7 on my ammeter). 48v, 750w, unit ..Software version 3.6 on the display.
But my question for those digging into the software/firmware is..
This was obviously planned and set up as a "User adjustable". Setting on the controller display menu...presumeably with the corresponding multi amp setting options in the firmware...but it is disabled aparently.
All i am wondering is, ..maybe there is a relatively simple change in the software to "unlock" those menue options ?
I certainly know my limitations beyond a menu interface prevent me figuring it out.

I haven't seen any info about unlocking that or any other function, aside from hacking the firmware if you can figure out where that setting resides. It seems the original firmware is very difficult to decipher and it is not hacker friendly, but you should ask the hackers about that. It is either disabled or it is a glitch. If I had to guess (based on no data) I would surmise the manufacturer screwed up the software design and could not lock out settings that would burn up the motor so they disabled the function entirely.

I believe that the people working on the firmware are writing their own firmware from scratch rather than hacking the existing firmware. I think Casainho was able to implement adjustable motor power settings on the custom firmware they are creating for the universal aftermarket lcd display they are now using. I do not know too much about it though. Unless I can ramp up the power according to engine rpms the power setting is pretty much useless and 16 amps is fine (for me).
 
stancecoke said:
AZUR said:
I am going to try STVD.
@casainho: is the windows makefile adapted to the TSDZ2 code already?!
No, I have no time to do that things. I hope others will do that.

I miss your collaboration in this project... You know, you can always buy again a TSDZ2 motor and another bicycle for you to use ;)
 
casainho said:
I miss your collaboration in this project... You know, you can always buy again a TSDZ2 motor and another bicycle for you to use ;)

We have absolutly no hills nor mountains here in Munich, so there is no need for a middrive system. I tried the TSDZ2 but I prefer the noiseless ride with a direct drive 8)

regards
stanceocke
 
pawepie said:
Sorry Azur - I meant STVP (ST Visual Programmer)

Remember, use the STM8S105x4 for the TSDZ2 Controller and the STM8S105x6 for the LCD3

I used Casainho's link and did the following (both under windows using STVP and linux using the toolchain)
• Purple wire connect to STLinkV2 RST pin
• Orange wire connect to STLinkV2 GND pin
• Black wire connect to STLinkV2 SWIM pin[/i][/b]
***I use BROWN to pull 5V from the STLinkV2 to the controller***
- note, I also used the battery power to TSDZ2 controller instead of BROWN wire: both have been equal solutions for me

*note that once flashed, you need to disconnect the STLinkV2 complete from the device, or you will get an error if you try to run from the battery while it is still plugged in.

Using STVP, for the TSDZ2 controller, I flashed the STM8S105x4 under the DATA MEMORY tab to modify the EEPROM (use Casainho's instructions: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/kunteng_lcd3/TSDZ2_configure_battery_voltage_and_motor_current.html)

I then flashed the firmware for it could send more data to the LCD3 using the PROGRAM MEMORY tab and this file: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TongSheng_TSDZ2_motor_controller_firmware/blob/master/TSDZ2_original_firmware_and_improved/TSDZ2_improved_original_firmware-v3.bin

Then with the LCD3, I used this to help me (https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/kunteng_lcd3/LCD3_on_TSDZ2--Install_our_KT-LCD3_firmware.html)
However,

• pin1: **I used 5V from the STLinkV2 5V pin
• pin2: connect to STLinkV2 SWIM pin
• pin3: connect to STLinkV2 GND pin
• pin4: connect to STLinkV2 RST pin


I used STVP and selected the STM8S105x6 chip, then I flashed the OPTION BYTES tab to remove protection and allow the signals to go through (I'm attaching the file to this message).
option_bytes_pwm_n_channels_enabled.bin

and then for the firmware itself (PROGRAM MEMORY tab under STVP), I compiled the latest code (fixing the 25.5km/h display limit not included in the v3 .bin at the time). I'm attaching it as this file below.
LCD3_TSDZ2_firmware_july6.bin

I found I had to wire the LCD3 to the TSDZ2 cable like this:

KT-LCD3 | TSDZ2 LCD cable
• red wire | (P+) battery voltage
• blue wire | Vin
• black wire | GND ground
• green wire | UART TX motor controller
• yellow wire | UART RX motor controller

*I don't think he updated the instructions online yet (TX and RX are supposed to be switched like above)

files here from my dropbox: (unable to attach them here)
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rg0w644gxy2z987/AACpaEH26Yw3IY_SxDiaeVUsa?dl=0

Let me know if this all works for you, and then I can add it to the wiki (cleaned up a bit)

Thanks all of you. I hope I succeed.

I am wating to change the minimum battery voltage to have a ride for more them 5 hours and more them 70km off road.

I have 36v 15Ah battery.

Regards
 
Does anybody use the OpenSource-Firmware on the MotorController? Can it be used like the original firmware, without a throttle?
 
PSWPower don't sell some parts that comes with the motor kit, like the right arm crank. I asked them an extra right arm crank, bolts, etc and they were kind to send it for free when I bought some new parts like ebrake sensor for hydraulic brakes (I think this sensor is the simplest to install).

I also did install a TSDZ2 (36V motor and 48V battery pack) on the new 24'' wheel mountain bike, for my 8 years old son. He loves it, "so fast" he says :)

image.png


2018-07-05_11.17.32.jpg
 
KT LCD3 for TSDZ2: battery state of charge based on discharged watts hour

I implemented the feature on the firmware of KT LCD3 for TSDZ2, of user being able to configure on the LCD3 the total amount of watts hour available on the battery pack. With this information, LCD3 shows a numeric value of battery state of charge (on the bottom right field).
User can also configure to see the value incrementing or decrementing and even enable or disable this feature.
Also, user can change current discharged watts hour (can be useful if changing to a different battery).

I though this feature could be implemented on the controller side, but the thing is that the discharged watts hour are saved on EEPROM when the LCD is disabled by the user and on the controller, there is no information that power will shutoff so no way to save the value on EEPROM. I think this feature should stay on the LCD side. This feature will just work with the OpenSource firmware and it works with the our improved original firmware.

See the next video where I show this new feature (also the configuration menu and submenus). The sources are on github as usual so for the users can build the firmware, test and give feedback.

[youtube]fFjo4UKV-qY[/youtube]
 
casainho said:
I also did install a TSDZ2 (36V motor and 48V battery pack) on the new 24'' wheel mountain bike, for my 8 years old son. He loves it, "so fast" he says :)

:) I guess with an 8yr old on a lightweight bike it will probably do 25-30mph without pedaling :) I wish they had these when I was a kid. I had to wait until I was 14 to get a moped, but that was back in the day before the power restrictions and my first moped was a 2hp model that was modified to cruise at 40-45 mph.
 
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