My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Ivanovitch_k · Jul 7, 2018

+1

Ivy answers fast and on point.

I deal a lot with China during my day job and It's actually quite refreshing to see a Chinese manufacturer this responsive.

Kudos to them !

Hardcore · Jul 8, 2018

Ender2000 said:
Is anyone else having trouble communicating with Frey?

I have been trying to initiate an order for several days, and I have been getting incredibly brief responses half the time, and no responses at all the other half.

Any tips for dealing with this company? They didn't respond to a direct e-mail either...

Their response usually ends in your junk or doesn't even reach that. Try the alibaba message center, I had the same email issue. Try asking one thing at a time if you get 'half'/brief responses.

thingone · Jul 8, 2018

What is the maximum amps that can be programmed on the controller? Only 30?

How does Luna, and how could we, reprogram to pull a full 2-3000watts?

Ivanovitch_k · Jul 8, 2018

thingone said:
What is the maximum amps that can be programmed on the controller? Only 30?

How does Luna, and how could we, reprogram to pull a full 2-3000watts?

Yes, 30 Amps.

Luna replaces the current shunts on the controller to make the brainbox believe less amps are flowing.

They possibly change the FETs too, but unsure about that.

BTW, a suitable replacement for them are the Infineon IPB017N08N5 with a cool 1.7 mΩ RdsOn. The D2PAK aka TO-263-3 package is cool, easier replacement than the through hole TO-220 of BBSxx series. That, and the non potted controller 8)

I will place a temp probe on the stock fets and see how hot they get at 30 amps 48V to gauge wether or not changing them can help.

Ender2000 · Jul 8, 2018

I'm a little frustrated. I've been messaging Ivy on alibaba for three days. She's reading my messages according to the site, but not responding. I only got one vague response about five days ago. Here's the record.

Hardcore · Jul 8, 2018

Ender2000 said:
I'm a little frustrated. I've been messaging Ivy on alibaba for three days. She's reading my messages according to the site, but not responding. I only got one vague response about five days ago. Here's the record.

I can understand. Try being specific with what you want, for example: the 2018 frame fatbike xxxx model with those standard components and xxx upgrades and ship to xxx address.

Cruncher123 · Jul 8, 2018

Ender2000 said:
I'm a little frustrated. I've been messaging Ivy on alibaba for three days. She's reading my messages according to the site, but not responding. I only got one vague response about five days ago. Here's the record.

Base price is about $3K plus expensive air-freight shipping. About 45 days to build bike and get delivered to your door. Even though air-freight is overnight, takes ~2 weeks to get to freight-forwarder and thru Customs. Make sure you specify color and all options (if any) upfront - Ivy messed up the modifications I requested a few days after I placed my order (I asked for brushed aluminum frame and SRAM EX-1 upgrades - frame got painted black as I originally requested and they are shipping EX-1 groupset separately for me to install later).

Ender2000 · Jul 8, 2018

Cruncher123 said:
Ender2000 said:

I'm a little frustrated. I've been messaging Ivy on alibaba for three days. She's reading my messages according to the site, but not responding. I only got one vague response about five days ago. Here's the record.

Click to expand...

Base price is about $3K plus expensive air-freight shipping. About 45 days to build bike and get delivered to your door. Even though air-freight is overnight, takes ~2 weeks to get to freight-forwarder and thru Customs. Make sure you specify color and all options (if any) upfront - Ivy messed up the modifications I requested a few days after I placed my order (I asked for brushed aluminum frame and SRAM EX-1 upgrades - frame got painted black as I originally requested and they are shipping EX-1 groupset separately for me to install later).

THanks for the information, man!

Ender2000 · Jul 8, 2018

Question to those of you who already own a Frey bike:

Can you attach a light to the existing wiring? It looks like the buttons on the LCD support a light, and I know that other g510 bikes have lights wired in.

Tom L · Jul 8, 2018

There are two female half sized spade lugs in the handlebar wiring harness. They switch 6V @ 500mA (3W) using the handlebar controller. If you want to run a light that draws more power than 3W have a read of this: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1387972#p1387972

Ender2000 · Jul 9, 2018

Another question:

Are these bikes quick release or thru axel in the rear wheel?

Ivanovitch_k · Jul 9, 2018

Ender2000 said:
Are these bikes quick release or thru axel in the rear wheel?

R boost 148 TA Ø12mm
F boost 110 TA Ø15mm

DaninSpain · Jul 10, 2018

DISASTER: 40km from home, 95 in the shade

My biggest fear about ordering this bike was what happens if something really major goes wrong.

Today, 40km from home it did all go wrong. The power delivery suddenly became really juddery, followed shortly after by a horrible noise from the motor, and then I lost all power. I could hear the motor turning, but no propulsion.

I had to cycle a 30kg bike 40km in 95 degrees to get home. Pretty brutal.

I wanted to make a quick video to show what's happening, but now it won't even switch on. To say I'm gutted doesn't come close

I have ridden my AM1000 almost every day since I got it 4 months ago, and have loved it. It's done 800 miles, and I keep on top of basic maintenance such as checking for loose nuts and bolts, cleaning chain, adjusting gear cable etc.

My riding is not aggressive, usually between level 1 and 3 (sport mode). Off-Road 40% On-Road 60%.

It's lovingly cleaned whenever I've been off-road and I stick to the easy stuff with nothing too taxing. The bike has had an easy life so far.

I ordered the bike in February 2018 and was told it has the steel gear, not the nylon, but it does feel motor gear related.

I'm REALLY hoping that Frey do not abandon me, that they take this seriously and get it sorted ASAP. I've just sent Ivy an email to explain and ask her what she needs from me to get my bike fixed under the warranty. Any which way, it looks like it's going to be as while before I'm back in the saddle

The thought of taking apart the motor to replace gears fills me with dread.

Anyone any ideas what could have gone wrong?

Ivanovitch_k · Jul 10, 2018

DaninSpain said:
The thought of taking apart the motor to replace gears fills me with dread.

Anyone any ideas what could have gone wrong?

Uh, the haul back home must have been a challenge :|

The display doesn't lit at all ?

You said you could hear it spinning but the chainring remained still ? The 3-pawl clutch could be toast. That or the the one-way bearing inside the 2nd reduction gear (09-G). You will have to open it up to really know...

I have done a complete teardown of the motor (except the rotor which I'm still wondering how to remove) and the gears are extremely easy to replace. Much more than on BBSxx series. See this video.

Also, if the sticker of your motor says V1.5 it has the steel gear.

FYI, here all the gear refs from V1.5:

DaninSpain · Jul 10, 2018

[/quote]

Uh, the haul back home must have been a challenge :|

The display doesn't lit at all ?

You said you could hear it spinning but the chainring remained still ? The 3-pawl clutch could be toast. That or the the one-way bearing inside the 2nd reduction gear (09-G). You will have to open it up to really know...

I have done a complete teardown of the motor (except the rotor which I'm still wondering how to remove) and the gears are extremely easy to replace. Much more than on BBSxx series. See this video.

Also, if the sticker of your motor says V1.5 it has the steel gear.

FYI, here all the gear refs from V1.5:

[/quote]

Thanks for your help Ivanovitch_k, I truly appreciate it.

At first I thought (hoped) the motor had overheated and had temporarily disengaged. Every 10km or so I'd re-start it. The display would come on, but just a noise from the motor and no propulsion. When I got home I was not in good shape, but once I'd recovered I thought I'd make a quick video to demonstrate what was happening and the noise it was making.

When I tried to switch it on, nothing. Not even the basic green battery light (on the actual battery) illuminated, which I thought was weird. So I plugged in the charger. The light turned red but no fan noise from the charger, just a single click. So I removed the battery and plugged in the charger again. This time it started to charge as per normal. Whilst it was charging I reinserted the battery and it cut out again.

I guess it must be some sort of safety cut-out kicking in.

With regards to the way forward, although I really do appreciate your helpful advice, this is a 3000€ 4 month old bike. I'm expecting that FREY will not ask me to start dismantling the motor and replace any of the innards. Definitely not my forte.

Anyway, we will see how they respond.

In the meantime, I guess I'll just have to get the stand up paddle board inflated 8)

thingone · Jul 10, 2018

Ivanovitch_k said:
Ohh well that makes sense. So with this replacement the controller only "sees" half the amps, hence the write up on that "programing special sauce" that states to not enter more than 30 amps into the field as it's actually 60.

Let us know how the fets do with 3k power running through them!

I'm really interested in seeing how much power can safely be ran (continuously and peak) through some small mods on this bike.

Ivanovitch_k · Jul 10, 2018

DaninSpain said:
When I tried to switch it on, nothing. Not even the basic green battery light (on the actual battery) illuminated, which I thought was weird. So I plugged in the charger. The light turned red but no fan noise from the charger, just a single click. So I removed the battery and plugged in the charger again. This time it started to charge as per normal. Whilst it was charging I reinserted the battery and it cut out again.

From your explanation, a plausible cause is that some some gear part broke loose.

Then the successive restart attempts pushed/ejected the metallic fragment towards the (non-potted) controller area and that somehow resulted in a short.

The BMS protection kicked in and isolated the battery discharge side, hence no wakeup at all.

When you plugged the battery on the charger the BMS reseted and when you put it back on the bike it went again in safe mode.

That kinda makes sense but again, without visual confirmation this is only speculation

I guess frey will send you a new motor...

thingone said:
Let us know how the fets do with 3k power running through them!

Luna stopped selling the ultra at 2.5kw because of "reliability issues".

Does that mean they melted the (then) V1.3 Nylon gears ?

That they broke some other gear like what supposedly happened to DaninSpain -at much lower power levels- ?

That the fets overheated ?

eh

So, I'm sure I will not push mine to 3kW for continuous use but I surely will conduct extensive testing with the stock fets, the impact of current on their temp, the impact of thermal paste on the power pcba to casing interface, etc... long road ahead :mrgreen:

DaninSpain · Jul 10, 2018

I guess frey will send you a new motor...

I'm counting on it, as I'm sure lots of people who are thinking about buying a FREY bike are. Post-sale customer service is so important.

Your possible explanation had me nodding my head. Sounds very plausible, even for a non-tech numpty like me :lol: :oops:

Your feedback is taking the edge off this. Thank you for that.

Tom L · Jul 10, 2018

Mantsos said:
...
Also what I little bit wondering now is that when I brake using rear brake that rear hub keep some noise like "bang, bang, bang, bang" and what harder I brake that bigger is that noise. I thought first that noise coming that's why because brake pads are new but that noise has not ended.

Did you find out what was causing this?
I noticed on my ride to work this morning that the rear brake was vibrating quite a bit when braking hard. Not a "bang" noise but disconcerting none the less. I cant see anything obviously wrong with it.

FREYebikes · Jul 10, 2018

Hi Daniel,

Please don't worry. We will be responsible for you. I've replied you by email.

DaninSpain said:
DISASTER: 40km from home, 95 in the shade

My biggest fear about ordering this bike was what happens if something really major goes wrong.

Today, 40km from home it did all go wrong. The power delivery suddenly became really juddery, followed shortly after by a horrible noise from the motor, and then I lost all power. I could hear the motor turning, but no propulsion.

I had to cycle a 30kg bike 40km in 95 degrees to get home. Pretty brutal.

I wanted to make a quick video to show what's happening, but now it won't even switch on. To say I'm gutted doesn't come close

I have ridden my AM1000 almost every day since I got it 4 months ago, and have loved it. It's done 800 miles, and I keep on top of basic maintenance such as checking for loose nuts and bolts, cleaning chain, adjusting gear cable etc.

My riding is not aggressive, usually between level 1 and 3 (sport mode). Off-Road 40% On-Road 60%.

It's lovingly cleaned whenever I've been off-road and I stick to the easy stuff with nothing too taxing. The bike has had an easy life so far.

I ordered the bike in February 2018 and was told it has the steel gear, not the nylon, but it does feel motor gear related.

I'm REALLY hoping that Frey do not abandon me, that they take this seriously and get it sorted ASAP. I've just sent Ivy an email to explain and ask her what she needs from me to get my bike fixed under the warranty. Any which way, it looks like it's going to be as while before I'm back in the saddle

The thought of taking apart the motor to replace gears fills me with dread.

Anyone any ideas what could have gone wrong?

Mantsos · Jul 10, 2018

Tom L said:
Mantsos said:

...
Also what I little bit wondering now is that when I brake using rear brake that rear hub keep some noise like "bang, bang, bang, bang" and what harder I brake that bigger is that noise. I thought first that noise coming that's why because brake pads are new but that noise has not ended.

Click to expand...

Did you find out what was causing this?
I noticed on my ride to work this morning that the rear brake was vibrating quite a bit when braking hard. Not a "bang" noise but disconcerting none the less. I cant see anything obviously wrong with it.

Not yet. :| I was have to book a maintenance time to my local ebike store if they can solve that problem. There is video from that noise(s) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jllfmSpAbEA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swoY3A6ugsw I guess that noise could come also from the spokes but I am not sure. My local ebike store told that noise also could come from the bent frame!? Or bent rim but they will check these things. I also changed rear axle to new one but that doesn't help. I will get my bike back tomorrow so let's see...

Tom L · Jul 10, 2018

Wow. Yeah mine's no where near that bad. You also have the occasional random ticking noise (not the freewheel) when cruising or pedalling along. Could be something hitting the spokes, a dud ratchet pawl or bearing. Let me know what you find.

Jebu · Jul 10, 2018

This week I was received a new rear wheel from Frey because my original wheel was broken, so I think they are going to do something with your motor

DaninSpain · Jul 10, 2018

FREYebikes said:
Hi Daniel,

Please don't worry. We will be responsible for you. I've replied you by email.

DaninSpain said:

DISASTER: 40km from home, 95 in the shade

My biggest fear about ordering this bike was what happens if something really major goes wrong.

Today, 40km from home it did all go wrong. The power delivery suddenly became really juddery, followed shortly after by a horrible noise from the motor, and then I lost all power. I could hear the motor turning, but no propulsion.

I had to cycle a 30kg bike 40km in 95 degrees to get home. Pretty brutal.

I wanted to make a quick video to show what's happening, but now it won't even switch on. To say I'm gutted doesn't come close

I have ridden my AM1000 almost every day since I got it 4 months ago, and have loved it. It's done 800 miles, and I keep on top of basic maintenance such as checking for loose nuts and bolts, cleaning chain, adjusting gear cable etc.

My riding is not aggressive, usually between level 1 and 3 (sport mode). Off-Road 40% On-Road 60%.

It's lovingly cleaned whenever I've been off-road and I stick to the easy stuff with nothing too taxing. The bike has had an easy life so far.

I ordered the bike in February 2018 and was told it has the steel gear, not the nylon, but it does feel motor gear related.

I'm REALLY hoping that Frey do not abandon me, that they take this seriously and get it sorted ASAP. I've just sent Ivy an email to explain and ask her what she needs from me to get my bike fixed under the warranty. Any which way, it looks like it's going to be as while before I'm back in the saddle

The thought of taking apart the motor to replace gears fills me with dread.

Anyone any ideas what could have gone wrong?

Click to expand...

I am feeling much better this morning having received a reply from Ivy within 12 hours telling me they are going to send a replacement motor

I will update this episode once the motor arrives. I hope it's not too difficult / technical to remove and replace the unit. Changing the oil/filter on my motorbike is the extent of my mechanical prowess :lol:

So far, kudos to Frey for getting on top of this so quickly.

Tom L · Jul 11, 2018

It's not difficult at all.

1) Remove the battery.
2) Remove the three screws holding the plastic cover above the motor.
3) Remove the chain ring and protector.
4) Unbolt the 3 motor mount nuts.
5) Punch out the three mounting bolts, making sure the spider and peddle crank arm are out of the way (on the opposite side).

All the wires are on plugs with different pin counts so you cant mix them up.

My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

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