Mobipus Controllers
- Thread starter Ohbse
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haulincolin
100 W
Interestingly, there is now a Mobipus website, but the 72600 is not listed on it.
http://www.mobipus.com/index.html
http://www.mobipus.com/index.html
macribs
10 MW
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haulincolin said:
I think that website has been online long time. I remember I came across it right after samD showed off the mobipus videos. Like now there was no mentioning of a 72600. As Mobipus is strictly OEM now from what I've understand most likely that webpage does not get a lot of focus and TLC.
I saw someone mention mobipus in CR in another thread but I can't remember which. Maybe something is in the wind?
In regards to share power I think the ASI BAC8000 will match the mobipus. The ASI does lack the option to use a tablet for a full "dashboard" and also lacks the possibility for liquid heating out of the box.
larsb
1 MW
I contacted Vila from Mobipus, got relayed to a "Danny Kong" and got a quote for mobipus 72200 and 72600 controllers. The price have gone up 200USD off course 8)
Good thing is that we might be able to get these if we want them, I wonder if they are worth it, 1099USD for the 72600
Instruction manual is the most serious i've seen. Some advice that are good even if you don't have a Mobipus :wink:
Good thing is that we might be able to get these if we want them, I wonder if they are worth it, 1099USD for the 72600
Instruction manual is the most serious i've seen. Some advice that are good even if you don't have a Mobipus :wink:
"Mobipus official"
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=97120
"Mobipus group buy"
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=97146
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=97120
"Mobipus group buy"
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=97146
larsb
1 MW
Thanks AW!
A lot going on i see.. The interface seems nice, specs are good but how to know it lasts.. For 1099usd it has to work at least two-three years.
Anyone knows who they sell to in OEM?
A lot going on i see.. The interface seems nice, specs are good but how to know it lasts.. For 1099usd it has to work at least two-three years.
Anyone knows who they sell to in OEM?
Ohbse
10 kW
larsb said:
Still running my 72200 daily for now over two years. Zero issues. I've got a big pile of controllers and this is my favorite by a country mile. My only wish (and it's completely unjustifiable) would be for some more phase amps for my fast winding qs 205 3.5T hub. But it would probably be easier just to replace the hub with a 4T to get some more wheel torque for the same phase amps as I don't need the speed. Done about 15,000km on this controller/motor combo, haven't even tightened a spoke.
larsb
1 MW
Nice to hear ohbse! How was it to program for your motor, is it "plug-and-play" or did you have to tune a lot for the QS205?
Ohbse
10 kW
larsb said:
Completely plug and play. Doesn't care about phase/hall combo in the slightest, way less effort than the Adaptto auto detect (which plain old doesn't work at all with a QS 205 in my experience)
One thing that the controller is capable of and I'd like to get into at some stage is running it sensorless - it can start off sensored and transition to a more advanced sensorless method once moving - the QS motor has about a 5% timing error between the hall sensors relative to the magnetic field, by moving to sensorless this is no longer an issue. Shenta thought i could make around a 5% torque gain/5% efficiency improvement. It does however require accurate inductance measurements for the stator and a few other inputs that QS were unable to provide and I didn't have the equipment to test for at the time.
I compiled the information I could find on Mobipus into an article. I welcome any corrections...
http://www.electricbike.com/mobipus-controllers-shenta/
http://www.electricbike.com/mobipus-controllers-shenta/
Ohbse
10 kW
Nicely done. One minor thing that hardly counts as a correction, the 72200 effectively replaced the 72150 and it is not available AFAIK.
My apologies for not having any better photos of my bike - unfortunately I don't have any time to take some 'glamour' shots, plus frankly my bike is hideous in current form and nobody should be encouraged to build something similar :lol:
My apologies for not having any better photos of my bike - unfortunately I don't have any time to take some 'glamour' shots, plus frankly my bike is hideous in current form and nobody should be encouraged to build something similar :lol:
shortcircuit911
1 kW
Just purchased one of these from SamD and can't wait to install it. I've been reading through the manual and can't find a suggested pre charge resistor value. Can anyone suggest a size for a 72v system? I'm looking to use a 6 wire ignition to trigger the pre charge circuit then the main contactor. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks
I recently finished this off for a friend - has the Mobipus 200A
The BMS is limiting to 150A...(set at 140) and phase amps to 240.... so not really getting the most out of it, but it's still a fair amount of power, and really great variable regen.
A lot of settings, and some could only be unlocked with a one hour ticket from the factory to do so... including regen. Takes a while to get the head around, and I'm still noobing it.
I've run it in different modes - though not sensorless. Currently set to FOC only - after running in Hybrid modes. Have not got it 100% smooth yet... Tuning it, by hall angle correction is difficult without a DYNO and oscilloscope.... to attempt to tune it I've been having to change the setting, replace the cover, ride, come back and change it again....and again and so on. Time consuming and not very scientific. Setting the phase amps too high exaggerates any problem with the tuning, and the relationship of the battery current with the phase magnification.
It's almost there, but to really tune it properly it will need to be run on the DYNO....and I would like to see a video of someone who knows their shizzle going through the tuning.
My next project is a honda CB conversion....and will look at the 600Amp unit - driving a watercooled Enertrac hub.
The BMS is limiting to 150A...(set at 140) and phase amps to 240.... so not really getting the most out of it, but it's still a fair amount of power, and really great variable regen.
A lot of settings, and some could only be unlocked with a one hour ticket from the factory to do so... including regen. Takes a while to get the head around, and I'm still noobing it.
I've run it in different modes - though not sensorless. Currently set to FOC only - after running in Hybrid modes. Have not got it 100% smooth yet... Tuning it, by hall angle correction is difficult without a DYNO and oscilloscope.... to attempt to tune it I've been having to change the setting, replace the cover, ride, come back and change it again....and again and so on. Time consuming and not very scientific. Setting the phase amps too high exaggerates any problem with the tuning, and the relationship of the battery current with the phase magnification.
It's almost there, but to really tune it properly it will need to be run on the DYNO....and I would like to see a video of someone who knows their shizzle going through the tuning.
My next project is a honda CB conversion....and will look at the 600Amp unit - driving a watercooled Enertrac hub.
Willow said:
?
amberwolf said:
To unlock the top level of settings (which includes the last option for regen to work) a time activated key needs to be submitted, which gives you one hour in this unlocked mode. I needed to use a VPN to make it think I was in Hong Kong to be in the same time zone as the programming key activation.
So...if you buy one of their controllers that doesn't yet have settings you want enabled, or setup the way you want, then the company decides not to communicate with you for whatever reason, or goes out of business, you now have a controller you can't make work the way you need it to.
Or...you really need to change one of those time-restricted settings right now for whatever reason, but can't because you can't reach the company at the moment.
Also potentially makes it difficult to "tune" if any of the things you need to experiment with are time-restricted. Have to keep going back to the company for a new "key" every hour, and if they've gone home for the day but you need to finish, you're stuck until they return.
Or you run into the timezone problem like you did, and are not savvy enough to figure out a workaround like you did, and can't even access the restricted stuff at all.
(and it sounds kinda like the setup program is having to communicate with the company's servers, too, which means if they're down or gone, you can't change things. If so, that makes the controller a brick if you have to change something major in the system and retune the controller's setup for the new system configuration, if it can't talk to the servers and thus won't work--but that's a big assumption that may be unwarranted)
Sounds great.
At least I know one more manufacturer to avoid.
Why would they ever make such a restriction?
I could totally understand an "OEM mode" like the Cycle Analyst has, where you can't change things from the device's own menus once it's setup by the vehicle OEM, but for an individual controller purchased from the controller manufacturer, the master setup program ought to be able to change anything at any time.
Or...you really need to change one of those time-restricted settings right now for whatever reason, but can't because you can't reach the company at the moment.
Also potentially makes it difficult to "tune" if any of the things you need to experiment with are time-restricted. Have to keep going back to the company for a new "key" every hour, and if they've gone home for the day but you need to finish, you're stuck until they return.
Or you run into the timezone problem like you did, and are not savvy enough to figure out a workaround like you did, and can't even access the restricted stuff at all.
(and it sounds kinda like the setup program is having to communicate with the company's servers, too, which means if they're down or gone, you can't change things. If so, that makes the controller a brick if you have to change something major in the system and retune the controller's setup for the new system configuration, if it can't talk to the servers and thus won't work--but that's a big assumption that may be unwarranted)
Sounds great.
At least I know one more manufacturer to avoid.
Why would they ever make such a restriction?
I could totally understand an "OEM mode" like the Cycle Analyst has, where you can't change things from the device's own menus once it's setup by the vehicle OEM, but for an individual controller purchased from the controller manufacturer, the master setup program ought to be able to change anything at any time.
larsb
1 MW
Couldn't agree more.. Especially for a basic thing like regen.
Some parameters would never need changing so doesn't matter if they're locked, but regen!?
Some parameters would never need changing so doesn't matter if they're locked, but regen!?
Apologies for the OT below:
FWIW, this type of thing very strongly irks me partly because I have a fair bit of software (mostly for music and sound creation, much of it supposedly intended for professional studio / composer usage) that is unusable for this reason.
The companies either don't exist anymore, and thus their activation or other servers are gone, or they've changed hands and don't accept that any customers from the previous owners have valid software--they insist they have to buy the newest version to get any "help" (which includes activations to be able to reinstall their existing software even on the very same machine it's always been on).
Some of the companies still exist under the same owners, but refuse to activate older software anymore, and won't even offer a discount on a newer version (which often won't even import old projects or settings, or in many cases even perform vital functions the old version did), so it's useless to "upgrade" in order to use it with existing projects that used the old one. (and the companies simply cannot understand what the problem is...or even that there *is* a problem!)
Some of the software requires internet access the whole time it's running, every time, becuase it randomly "phones home" and has to ask if it's ok to be running. So...if the network goes down, or the server is down (or gone), or the company simply decides they no longer accept "pings" from some version or whatever, the customer is out of luck.
(in theory it's piracy prevention, but in reality the pirated software is all hacked to take that out, so pirates can steal anything they want and use it without issue, while all the honest actual paying customers get screwed over. AFAICR, not a single company I have ever worked with or purchased from ever even sort-of kept their promise of releasing their "codes" when they went under, though few of the dozens ever made that promise).
Lots of variations on those, and other issues, but they all come down to "you're screwed" because you can't use it if they don't decide you can (or aren't there to do the deciding).
This kind of problem is even worse when it happens for hardware that runs your transportation (like these controllers).
FWIW, this type of thing very strongly irks me partly because I have a fair bit of software (mostly for music and sound creation, much of it supposedly intended for professional studio / composer usage) that is unusable for this reason.
The companies either don't exist anymore, and thus their activation or other servers are gone, or they've changed hands and don't accept that any customers from the previous owners have valid software--they insist they have to buy the newest version to get any "help" (which includes activations to be able to reinstall their existing software even on the very same machine it's always been on).
Some of the companies still exist under the same owners, but refuse to activate older software anymore, and won't even offer a discount on a newer version (which often won't even import old projects or settings, or in many cases even perform vital functions the old version did), so it's useless to "upgrade" in order to use it with existing projects that used the old one. (and the companies simply cannot understand what the problem is...or even that there *is* a problem!)
Some of the software requires internet access the whole time it's running, every time, becuase it randomly "phones home" and has to ask if it's ok to be running. So...if the network goes down, or the server is down (or gone), or the company simply decides they no longer accept "pings" from some version or whatever, the customer is out of luck.
(in theory it's piracy prevention, but in reality the pirated software is all hacked to take that out, so pirates can steal anything they want and use it without issue, while all the honest actual paying customers get screwed over. AFAICR, not a single company I have ever worked with or purchased from ever even sort-of kept their promise of releasing their "codes" when they went under, though few of the dozens ever made that promise).
Lots of variations on those, and other issues, but they all come down to "you're screwed" because you can't use it if they don't decide you can (or aren't there to do the deciding).
This kind of problem is even worse when it happens for hardware that runs your transportation (like these controllers).
macribs
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Willow said:
Wow. That kind of sound like nothing more then a good ol' deal breaker. So first you buy the hardware, then you buy a time slot to get access to the make changes in the software, and then what the next time you need to make more changes? Or you got yourself a new motor? Buy more time slots? Nah I really don't think that is something I will be ok with. What if there are changes to the company, your expensive controller is suddenly rendered useless then? Or if the company goes belly up, or decides to go OEM again and do not answer you email for the next year or two? This must be one of the saddest things I ever seen in e-bike world.
And to make the whole things even worse, not a word about this from the manufacturer at all. Not a single line of information about this major drawback thats got the potential to turn a 1.000 $ hardware into a useless brick. Not only did they choose a sketchy strategy where they sell you access to your own product in which you paid full retail price, no they go the extra mile and try to hide that from all potential customers.
RIP Mobipus.
Moving on, nothing more here to see.
macribs
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amberwolf said:
You can't even compare this to software no matter what application. Because here you bought a piece of hardware. And there is no mentioning of such limitations beforehand. If your software stops updating you can choose to run as is. If you can't make changes to to vital part of software that is needed for the hardware to run correctly then the 1000 $ spend on the hardware is wasted. Gone.
This is could be about anti piracy, but this could also be a well calculated move from the company behind mobipus controllers to generate more sale to each customer. Marketing 101. The first line they hammer into your head in business school. If so, mobipus has taken it to the extreme. And in a way that makes mobipus the bad guy. I don't evn know the price for the time-slot. But it does not matter. 1$, 10$ or 100$. It is unacceptable, because the customer takes on all the risk is anything should happen to the company in the future. New owners, new products, bankruptcy, or new strategy. All of this can turn your mobipus controller into a brick. Completely useless and worthless. And for a 1000 $ hardware that risk is not acceptable.
They are asking a lot of their customers. To put all their trust into a company that until a few months ago didn't reply to emails, that withdraw from the end user market to pursue more lucrative opportunities only a year or so ago, then they re surfaced on ES when the OEM deal fell face down. Will there next move make all their sold products useless? Most likely not because I don't think they did this out of greed or screw their customers, but we got now way of knowing the life expectancies of this company, nor do we know if they are bought up, or closed down. Customer need to be sure they can use a 1.000 $ hardware for longevity of the hardware, not to risk being fukced over by the lack of ability to make changes in the software.
I can only say this, either this must be changed right away and never return. Or I will say it bluntly, stay the fcuk away from mobipus.
macribs
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Well at least I was wrong on that part, good thing they are not charging money for the time slots.
But still, all this risk for future changes is in the hand of the buyer, and the controller can be a dead brick if future software changes are not possible to do due to whatever reason. And that is not ok.
But still, all this risk for future changes is in the hand of the buyer, and the controller can be a dead brick if future software changes are not possible to do due to whatever reason. And that is not ok.
What I have understood there is 3 levels in the software. "user" "distributor" and "factory" all of them can be used with different passwords or alternatively with timekey that has certain amount of time like 1hour to infinity.. For factory level they probably don't share password with anyone but they can give timekey or change the setting for you remotely over the internet. I don't have list of what levels you need for certain action but at least for controller temperature protection values you need factory level access but that's not something that many people need or should change.
I currently can't turn regen on so maybe I need better password
It is also a good thing that as default there is password protection since I have wifi access that in theory anyone can access but I also see the other side of this issue.
I currently can't turn regen on so maybe I need better password
It is also a good thing that as default there is password protection since I have wifi access that in theory anyone can access but I also see the other side of this issue.
SamD is a dealer, he is in Australia. If you buy from him, he can set it up the way you like before he sends it to you. It's my understanding that users can share their settings. By that I mean if you have a Mobipus that is dialed-in to run a QS 205, and you now want to use the Mobipus to run a different motor (MXUS, Crown, etc), you can find someone on the forums with that motor and ask to use their settings.
If you want to run a motor that nobody has run before, I suppose you would need to play with the settings to get the best results. Enter the Hall phase angle, number of pole pairs, diameter of wheel (for the speedometer), etc. Of course you'd have to figure that out with any controller.
Ohbse and Sketchism are long-standing members here, and they have stated that they found the Mobipus to be easier to program than the Kelly and Adaptto. Of course there is nothing wrong with using a Kelly or Adaptto, to each their own preference...
I haven't used one yet, and I have no stake in their success or failure.
edit: I do agree that regen should be a user-settable feature, and possibly dealer-settable for OEM, since using bad settings can fry a battery that was not designed to accept high regen. As far as moving the controller to a different motor, it's my understanding that all of those settings are "user settable".
It "sounds like" changing the regen setting is the main thing that would be "locked out" if the company went under. What settings are dealer level? What are the factory-level settings (besides regen)?
If you want to run a motor that nobody has run before, I suppose you would need to play with the settings to get the best results. Enter the Hall phase angle, number of pole pairs, diameter of wheel (for the speedometer), etc. Of course you'd have to figure that out with any controller.
Ohbse and Sketchism are long-standing members here, and they have stated that they found the Mobipus to be easier to program than the Kelly and Adaptto. Of course there is nothing wrong with using a Kelly or Adaptto, to each their own preference...
I haven't used one yet, and I have no stake in their success or failure.
edit: I do agree that regen should be a user-settable feature, and possibly dealer-settable for OEM, since using bad settings can fry a battery that was not designed to accept high regen. As far as moving the controller to a different motor, it's my understanding that all of those settings are "user settable".
It "sounds like" changing the regen setting is the main thing that would be "locked out" if the company went under. What settings are dealer level? What are the factory-level settings (besides regen)?
macribs
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Ok, I might have gone overboard in the rant about this. Lets see what the official mobipus says about this.
If the time slot is not for all settings or if it is possible to make changes to controller no matter if you are online/offline have swapped motor or whatever I guess it is not all as bad as I first thought. However, without having seen the controller or software, my guess is that you can not access the hidden settings no matter if other on the forum got the correct settings for a specific motor unless you get your password. Regen is important for many users, and should not be a locked feature imho.
Ok so I am no longer furious and hot headed, but I still would like an official response to this matter so that we know for sure what is possible to change no matter the state of the company behind the controller, their servers, or whatever else that can impact such restricted access policy.
If my first two response's to this matter proves to be way off or too harsh feel free to moderate or even delete my previous two posts here, that is if we do get an official response that clears up everything. Sometimes I loose my cool and get hot headed
If the time slot is not for all settings or if it is possible to make changes to controller no matter if you are online/offline have swapped motor or whatever I guess it is not all as bad as I first thought. However, without having seen the controller or software, my guess is that you can not access the hidden settings no matter if other on the forum got the correct settings for a specific motor unless you get your password. Regen is important for many users, and should not be a locked feature imho.
Ok so I am no longer furious and hot headed, but I still would like an official response to this matter so that we know for sure what is possible to change no matter the state of the company behind the controller, their servers, or whatever else that can impact such restricted access policy.
If my first two response's to this matter proves to be way off or too harsh feel free to moderate or even delete my previous two posts here, that is if we do get an official response that clears up everything. Sometimes I loose my cool and get hot headed
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