Carbon Fiber e bike with Bafang M 600 mid installed with throttle

Super excited about this thread folks. I am curious, does anyone know max amperage that one can run through the M600? I know we have figures on 120 Newton Output but I am more used to thinking in Wattage, Motor reduction, Gears on the bike etc for assessing if a kit will work for me.

What has really caught my eye is the frames that are out there for 27.5 plus tires, the upslope to motor mount giving decent trail clearance, and equally important to me is the ability to run a throttle. I have abandoned my search for a frame to fit the HD 1000 because there is nothing suitable to get the motor up into the front triangle on a decent FS trail bike so super happy this M600 is getting some good looking prospects for frames to fit.

I am subscribed to this thread now and hope it gets some traction and we receive updates on sourcing frames with pricing and specs on Motor etc. It would be great to get some kind of a group buy organized here in Canada.

I am hoping Luna will latch on to this M600 in a complete bike with a decent frame having the attributes described above.

Thanks to SurfingJeff for starting this thread.....Awesome!...........wayne
 
Here is some info from Bafang themselves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR0gFy1xIGQ at a recent bike show........
Sounds like Bafang themselves are going to produce 1000wh battery packs (in the works but to come) for the frame shown in this video if I understand right. Also the USA version of the M600 will be up to 500 watts.
I'am warming up to this platform and keeping my fingers crossed for good pricing and availability in the near future. I may sell my fat bike in early fall and head in this direction for my next bike. I think these frames shown in the video don't look like there very good quality but who knows. ........wayne
 
Careful on rated wattage Most e bikes ratings are way low. Consider all the Step Motors E8000 by Shimano or Brose Motors. these are rated 250-350 but actual is up at 750 plus depends on where you look. My suggestion would be to use anywhere from 850 to 1500 watts peak. The M1 Spitzing with the same 120 Newtons is rated at 850. Also with newly imposed tariffs will be on us in two months so now is the time to buy a Chinese Bike.

If anybody has information on the M 600 on the Frey unit if the top speed can be reprogrammed it would be appreciated. IM still getting freight pricing on two bikes. Also if anybody just dealt with tariffs recently on a bike some feed back would be nice.
Enclosed brand newly assembled Unit One Dengfu 08 Carbon Fiber with M600 Dafang or Shimano Step Motor 8000.
.
 
I forgot the bike weight is 48.5 Lbs. Enclosed more detail pictures from their web site on the frame.
 

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Wayneburgman,

That picture of the blue color frame shows that it has welds , so it is an Aluminium Frame

And the pictures/links that Surfingjeff is showing is a Carbon Frame.

Sometimes Carbon Frames are just a little lighter weight, sometimes a large difference in weight.

Any pricing on that Aluminium one ?
 
HI Scooterman, the blue aluminum frame shown in the video has the M600 markings right on the frame. I am not sure but I assumed that was a frame that Bafang themselves put together for the show that that video was made at. I think that is a Bafang promotion frame but not sure. Looking closer at the frame in the video is looks kind of junky. Chain stay pivot look like a wall mart special and the linkage from shock mount to chain stay looks like shabby stuff also but who knows at this point.
 
Surfingjeff are you saying then that these M600's may be in the 800 watt range (I guess we are just speculating at this point or is there some kind of comparison that can be made from the Newton numbers given from the manufacturers)? Also do you know if there are many of these motors out there up and running on bikes? I am guessing these M600's are not going to be a motor that we can reprogram like the HD1000 but that would be nice if one could?
 
Dengfu does make the frames for Bafang and yes, their suspension linkage is weak.

But, they also had made CF frames and components for some major bike manufacturers, who are building them with their own linkage. So, I guess their inserts are sound, and one could find better parts to fit them.

Sure a group buy will save a lot, as compared to the price of equivalent bikes on the market now.
 
If you want aluminum frame with the Bafang M 600 check the forum for the Frey bike its at $ 2650. on sale at Alibaba For the Bafang Carbon Fiber Fengfu Bike with M 600 with carbon fiber frame and wheels , Shimano Deore group, Yari Rock shock forks, Rock shock shocks , 14.7 ahr battery and charger, carbon handle bar and stem about $ 3300 since IM guessing Im not going to get a seat post or seat since they do not have a line on dropper posts. I think the difference is weight so far the Bafang bike weighs in at 48.5 lbs. I do not know what the Frey bike weighs. Frey has better brakes and Xt gearing, but no carbon frame or handle bar or stem or hidden battery. frame to frame no contest the carbon fiber by Fengu is light years better with hidden battery. A extra battery for Fengu is only $ 300 I think Ill buy one get double the range.

I still trying to get program information for Fengfu see if they can program the smaller size wheel to get more speed than either the 35 KPH or the listed 45 KPH. We were able to do this to the Specialized Kenevo with special app Blevo . Not the speed is double the rated max. Were in no mans land since this M600 is new and not wired and works on blue tooth. I don't think any of those high speed dongles you can buy is going to work. I think straight programming is better any way. Enclosed direct from Bafang M 600 programming set up. Enclosed below wheel size and speed settings.

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I have looked on the Alibaba site for the Bafang Carbon Fiber Fengfu Bike with M 600 with carbon fiber frame and wheels , Shimano Deore group, Yari Rock shock forks, Rock shock shocks , 14.7 ahr battery and charger, carbon handle bar and stem that you mentioned SURFINGJEFF @$ 3300 but I can not find it. Could I trouble you please for a link to that particular bike? Thanks in advance.....wayne
 
Surfingjeff said:
...For the Bafang Carbon Fiber Fengfu Bike with M 600 with carbon fiber frame and wheels , Shimano Deore group, Yari Rock shock forks, Rock shock shocks , 14.7 ahr battery and charger, carbon handle bar and stem about $ 3300 since IM guessing Im not going to get a seat post or seat since they do not have a line on dropper posts. I think the difference is weight so far the Bafang bike weighs in at 48.5 lbs. ...
Click to expand...
I assume the Alu Frey bike will be heavier than the Carbon one, ?
I dont understand these weights.
I have a fairly unspecial Alu frame "Specialised FSR "Myka" with a 750 W, TSDZ2 drive and 16 Ah pack that weighs in at 19kg (40lbs). Ready to ride, with not a gram of carbon anywhere !
..... Where is all the extra weight coming from on these new frames ? :?:
 
Hillhater said:
Surfingjeff said:
...For the Bafang Carbon Fiber Fengfu Bike with M 600 with carbon fiber frame and wheels , Shimano Deore group, Yari Rock shock forks, Rock shock shocks , 14.7 ahr battery and charger, carbon handle bar and stem about $ 3300 since IM guessing Im not going to get a seat post or seat since they do not have a line on dropper posts. I think the difference is weight so far the Bafang bike weighs in at 48.5 lbs. ...
Click to expand...
I assume the Alu Frey bike will be heavier than the Carbon one, ?
I dont understand these weights.
I have a fairly unspecial Alu frame "Specialised FSR "Myka" with a 750 W, TSDZ2 drive and 16 Ah pack that weighs in at 19kg (40lbs). Ready to ride, with not a gram of carbon anywhere !
..... Where is all the extra weight coming from on these new frames ? :?:
Click to expand...

Well, the Myka is a small bike, and yours sure had been built lighter than stock. It was about 30lbs out of the bike shop. That would make your whole kit and battery 10 lbs.

Also, recent CF frames for MTB are thicker and not saving much weight. Some alu FS frames are now lighter than most CF, because some manufacturers had started using higher grade, harder alu, letting them build thinner walls.
 
Surfingjeff said:
The ultra your correct . I really think it’s over kill both with weight and power . I ride currently a Bafang 500 hub motor and I am easily hitting over 30 plus miles a hour . Everyone who has the Ultra mid drive has been complaining of the excess weight . The reason for that is the weight of the motor and some of the huge battery’s required to feed this monster motor . The industry is going toward lighter more efficient like the Shimano E8000 step motor 2.88 KG with battery at 2.65 kg. But only 70 N.m Compared to the Ultra at 6.8 Kg with battery at 4 kg. 16 ahr . At 160 N.m The new Bafang M 600 weighs 3.7 kg rated 120 N.m and the standard battery is 36 v 14 ahr is 3.5 kg . I think the new Bafang M600 is a good compromise it’s plenty strong and doesn’t add as much weight as the ultra to keep the bike to close to 20 KG but with a throttle . The very lightest bike is the Pivot Shuttle under 20 kg but utilized the Shimano Step E 8000 which I have demo ed it’s pretty torquey can climb pretty well shuts down at 20 MPH you can add a dongle or reprogram to get over to 50 kph but still no throttle . Oh by the way the Pivot Shuttle is $10,000 ouch . A carbon frame with the Bafang M600 with 120 n.m would be a serious machine be pretty light weight and act more like a real mountain bike instead of the Ultra over weight 57 lbs. over weight “ motor cycle”. My current bike M2S Dual Sport 500plus weighs 55 lbs. it’s a tank . When I test road the 44 lbs. shuttle talk about my bike over powered but heavy like dark ages old klunker compared to what I would say felt very close to my Specialized S works Enduro my regular mountain bike . Currently there is no bike on market today due to all the regulations that has a throttle with power and be below or near 20 kg . I think the bike shown on this post which is not yet available for a few weeks to a month would be very close to the Shuttle by Pivot in weight but be much faster with 40% more torque with a throttle and not cost anywhere close to $10,000. I’m getting pricing for three built up bikes since shipping three bikes same as one bike for China . I’m specifying both SRAM NX group , Rock shock Monarch shocks Lyrik fork decent components guide brakes . Trying to get a order together my target is about same price as the Frey bikes . The M600 motor is less than the ultra but the Carbon fiber frame will be more . I really want to add carbon fiber wheels try to get to the same weight as the shuttle which has aluminum wheels . The correct tires can also save a few pounds .36A67FD7-62FD-4832-A005-F7635E6DC14D.jpeg
Click to expand...
Here is my comment I wrote earlier in this forum Pivot built one of the lightest e bikes price $10,000 and weighs 46 pounds. So if this New bike comes in at 48.5 lbs. is because of the difference with the Shimano step motor and lower weight lower range battery compared to the Banfang M600 and longer range 48 volt 14.7 ahr battery . If you all can build one at less than what Pivot did my hats off to you.this bikes battery and motor weight is about 15 lbs. with the larger 48 volt battery the bike weight with out motor and battery is 33 lbs. for the frame and larger wheels that’s just about right.
 
waynebergman said:
I have looked on the Alibaba site for the Bafang Carbon Fiber Fengfu Bike with M 600 with carbon fiber frame and wheels , Shimano Deore group, Yari Rock shock forks, Rock shock shocks , 14.7 ahr battery and charger, carbon handle bar and stem that you mentioned SURFINGJEFF @$ 3300 but I can not find it. Could I trouble you please for a link to that particular bike? Thanks in advance.....wayne
Click to expand...

Go on the chat Dengfu on Alibaba they do not have that frame yet on the site with pricing . The lady that will help you is Kelsey she will help you with pricing make sure you confirm it’s the carbon fiber one for the Bafang M600 . M09 frame .let her know jeff recommended her she will know than what bi,e your talking about I’m sure I’ve been chatting for few weeks . They only have medium in stock all built up its the one on the picture they have not produced large or small yet .usually make sense to ship few frames but pricing for single frame really was cheap didn’t save much mo ey . Where you really save money in quantity is shipping few bikes . Two for $950 one for $875 . I think three frames were $200 I think ones like $95 or something like that. I think im going to try shipping parts sounds like few people here on the forums are saying the tariffs are $400per bike no one seems to have exact figure or even know what the tariffs are . Im Trying to see if I ship small boxes keep from huge shipping costs and tariffs. I’ll let you all know
 
Keep in mind Chinese time from your own. It’s other side of the earth and the next day.i start talking to her about 8PM pacific time .
 
Thanks SurgingJeff for the help. Tons of questions on the this platform and this bike so don't really know were to start.Things I will be searching for before I get looking into costs and shipping are.........
1.is this M600 programable? (in that we can boost amps up to 25 or 30amps and also smooth out choppy throttle if the throttle ramping is bad on delivery)
2.What kind of cells are being used in the packs from the dealer you bought from?
3.Is it a torque or speed sensor on the pedal assist, sorry can't remember if that was stated anywhere yet?
4.The latest half twist throttle that luna sells for the Bafang HD1000 is really nice for cheap even, would the pin outs be the same as the HD1000 for HD throttle to plug and play?
5.Is there any kind of meaning full readout for voltage on a dashboard or just a battery indicator showing best guess on steps of state charge remaining . Most likely there wont be a useful AH readout on the dashboard so at the least an accurate resting voltage readout showing sag etc can help a bit for guessing on how much is left in the tank.
6.These Newton reading are a start but I am still wondering if anyone knows what kind of max watt output we are looking at with a M600 motor.
7.And of major importance to me is what kind of gear reduction is claimed from manufacturer before going to bike drive? I hope its more reduction than the HD1000 so one can catch up to the drive with pedal input when arriving at the motors happy zone.

Some of my questions for now if anyone has input, much appreciated. Keeping my fingers crossed for this M600 drive to pan out......wayne
 
waynebergman said:
Thanks SurgingJeff for the help. Tons of questions on the this platform and this bike so don't really know were to start.Things I will be searching for before I get looking into costs and shipping are.........
1.is this M600 programable? (in that we can boost amps up to 25 or 30amps and also smooth out choppy throttle if the throttle ramping is bad on delivery)
2.What kind of cells are being used in the packs from the dealer you bought from?
3.Is it a torque or speed sensor on the pedal assist, sorry can't remember if that was stated anywhere yet?
4.The latest half twist throttle that luna sells for the Bafang HD1000 is really nice for cheap even, would the pin outs be the same as the HD1000 for HD throttle to plug and play?
5.Is there any kind of meaning full readout for voltage on a dashboard or just a battery indicator showing best guess on steps of state charge remaining . Most likely there wont be a useful AH readout on the dashboard so at the least an accurate resting voltage readout showing sag etc can help a bit for guessing on how much is left in the tank.
6.These Newton reading are a start but I am still wondering if anyone knows what kind of max watt output we are looking at with a M600 motor.
7.And of major importance to me is what kind of gear reduction is claimed from manufacturer before going to bike drive? I hope its more reduction than the HD1000 so one can catch up to the drive with pedal input when arriving at the motors happy zone.

Some of my questions for now if anyone has input, much appreciated. Keeping my fingers crossed for this M600 drive to pan out......wayne
Click to expand...
It is programmable but it cannot so far be over ride the presets . Like the direct wired USB port on wired led units that Luna reprogram,s. This is a blue tooth connected unit like the specialized one which can be reprogrammed by a app. Which I have. Mentioned before. I had Dafang try to input a small wheel see if we can fake the unit out but max speed still is 45 KPH.

The battery has LG I asked for which cell but from. My calculations it’s the one rated at 3000 ma.
I think it’s both torque and speed sensor.
The throttle for one Bafang should work on another . My preference is the thumb throttle .which I am ordering .
Usually the battery has a read out but in this instance won’t be visible in the fame. But I do know it’s a key lock easy to swap out since I think I’m buying two when I need more range .the dash on my bafang provides battery level I would think this new u it will also have one.
No idea on wattage rated at 500 but I’m sure it’s close to 1000. Since the Shimano e8000 is double of their rate.
Have no dea what gear reduction they have.
 
Hey guys,

Been reading your posts with enthusiasm. Wanted to post the frame I just ordered from Pro Mance seems to be the same as the Dengfu but better price and was able to order Frame, Motor and Battery...

http://www.pro-mance.com/product-390-80235.html

Also got me wondering who really is manufacturing these frames for sure?
 

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I did not see a price on the website you linked to

Price ?

Shipping cost ? to what country are you in ?

Did you get a frame for Shimano or Befang mid motor ?

Drop Dead Fred said:
Hey guys,

Been reading your posts with enthusiasm. Wanted to post the frame I just ordered from Pro Mance seems to be the same as the Dengfu but better price and was able to order Frame, Motor and Battery...

http://www.pro-mance.com/product-390-80235.html

Also got me wondering who really is manufacturing these frames for sure?
Click to expand...
 
Drop Dead Fred said:
Hey guys,

Been reading your posts with enthusiasm. Wanted to post the frame I just ordered from Pro Mance seems to be the same as the Dengfu but better price and was able to order Frame, Motor and Battery...

http://www.pro-mance.com/product-390-80235.html

Also got me wondering who really is manufacturing these frames for sure?
Click to expand...

Kinda a mystery so what is the price of the frame from them ? Very criptic . So this is the third or fourth manufacturer or distributor that picture sure looks like the frame . I know the medium is the only one size they is available until next month .
 
Bafang F-Series batteries
The new 450 Wh or 600 Wh F-Series InTube batteries can be inserted from the top or underside of the downtube. There will be also a semi-integrated battery pack available with a maximum capacity of 1000 Wh. The 450 Wh battery is the first battery to become available from the new Bafang battery assembly factory in Suzhou.
Bafang F-Series batteries use Panasonic/Samsung cells. CanBus and UART communication protocols, and two different charger options with 2 A or 3 A charging capacity, complement the battery offering.
Read more at http://www.bicyclingtrade.com.au/news/trade/bafang-announces-2019-ebike-range#OdG9Yziusgl7kB0m.99

Hey DDFred thanks for the links. I tried my best on this site here http://www.pro-mance.com/product-390-80235.html to see what they are actually selling and for how much. It is sure a terrible site for giving any kind of real information on anything, nice pictures however. I wont pass judgement till I here back from them with some answers to some of my questions. Lets keep continue to keep our fingers crossed for a decent product with this platform.

Oh and this on the speed limits....These motors offer peak torque values of 95 Nm (M500) to 120 Nm (M600). The complete range is now available for OEMs to test and specify, including versions which are EU compliant for 25 km/h (Pedelec) and 45 km/h (S-Pedelec), plus USA versions for limits of 20 mph to 28 mph.
Read more at http://www.bicyclingtrade.com.au/news/trade/bafang-announces-2019-ebike-range#rA3bJXoRffcSXAxG.99 so good new here also, I am fine with 28mph, plenty fast for me.

The smart phone app I saw on line for the new Bafang lineup showing settings and dashboard type info was encouraging. No throttle ramping etc but seems to have an actual AH remaining number included in display so this is encouraging. If Bafang actually sets up the motor controller setting from the factory with a smooth throttle response we don't need any of that anyways so I guess we will wait and see.

Can anyone chime in with estimated time of arrival for their very own M600 that will be in their possession soon. And can you please update us if these motors are a decent trail worthy unit? ............wayne
 
Surfingjeff said:
Drop Dead Fred said:
Hey guys,

Been reading your posts with enthusiasm. Wanted to post the frame I just ordered from Pro Mance seems to be the same as the Dengfu but better price and was able to order Frame, Motor and Battery...

http://www.pro-mance.com/product-390-80235.html

Also got me wondering who really is manufacturing these frames for sure?
Click to expand...

Kinda a mystery so what is the price of the frame from them ? Very criptic . So this is the third or fourth manufacturer or distributor that picture sure looks like the frame . I know the medium is the only one size they is available until next month .
Click to expand...
ScooterMan101 said:
I did not see a price on the website you linked to

Price ?

Shipping cost ? to what country are you in ?

Did you get a frame for Shimano or Befang mid motor ?

Drop Dead Fred said:
Hey guys,

Been reading your posts with enthusiasm. Wanted to post the frame I just ordered from Pro Mance seems to be the same as the Dengfu but better price and was able to order Frame, Motor and Battery...

http://www.pro-mance.com/product-390-80235.html

Also got me wondering who really is manufacturing these frames for sure?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Guys, the times I have post prices I have been asked to take them down.

We will see how long it lasts, frame, rear axle, 5 additional derailleur hangers, motor, battery, shipping.... 2200.00 USA 723 for the frame.

It is called the EB05 and Dengfu is called the M09 but both are the same frame. When I talked with Dengfu they said frame and battery only. Pro.Mance said they would prefer selling motor as they would mount and match it. Also I couldn't seem to find a reasonable battery and Dengfu's was actually more. So I just ordered it all from Pro.Mance, Sep 21 delivery date. We'll see, oh and I was able to pay via paypal which I liked.
 
Drop Dead Fred said:
Surfingjeff said:
Drop Dead Fred said:
Hey guys,

Been reading your posts with enthusiasm. Wanted to post the frame I just ordered from Pro Mance seems to be the same as the Dengfu but better price and was able to order Frame, Motor and Battery...

http://www.pro-mance.com/product-390-80235.html

Also got me wondering who really is manufacturing these frames for sure?
Click to expand...

Kinda a mystery so what is the price of the frame from them ? Very criptic . So this is the third or fourth manufacturer or distributor that picture sure looks like the frame . I know the medium is the only one size they is available until next month .
Click to expand...
ScooterMan101 said:
I did not see a price on the website you linked to

Price ?

Shipping cost ? to what country are you in ?

Did you get a frame for Shimano or Befang mid motor ?

Drop Dead Fred said:
Hey guys,

Been reading your posts with enthusiasm. Wanted to post the frame I just ordered from Pro Mance seems to be the same as the Dengfu but better price and was able to order Frame, Motor and Battery...

http://www.pro-mance.com/product-390-80235.html

Also got me wondering who really is manufacturing these frames for sure?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Guys, the times I have post prices I have been asked to take them down.

We will see how long it lasts, frame, rear axle, 5 additional derailleur hangers, motor, battery, shipping.... 2200.00 USA 723 for the frame.

It is called the EB05 and Dengfu is called the M09 but both are the same frame. When I talked with Dengfu they said frame and battery only. Pro.Mance said they would prefer selling motor as they would mount and match it. Also I couldn't seem to find a reasonable battery and Dengfu's was actually more. So I just ordered it all from Pro.Mance, Sep 21 delivery date. We'll see, oh and I was able to pay via paypal which I liked.
Click to expand...

Sorry Scooterman,

Bafang Mount as the Shimano E8000 is tough to get and costs plenty!
 
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