Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

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Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 19 2018 5:36am

Well, the actually Kv is 12,08, so it will be around 7, which is equal for 7 turns/1V, which means I reduce the top speed of about 40%, how will I get more top speed?
I got the information with field weakening it will be possible to get max 10-20% higher turns with it.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Jul 19 2018 7:30pm

I think LFP meant a 60% increase in Kv and split windings. The higher Kv means higher current handling along with higher rpm per volt. You hadn't pushed the motor to it's max current with the controller, so you're still probably ok with 2 controllers and the higher Kv. Since you didn't double Kv, then the double current would mean more torque than you had before, and still get 60% higher no load rpm (40-50% higher rpm under load) for more top speed. More torque AND higher rpm means much better drag times.

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 19 2018 11:49pm

But if I higher the Kv I will reduce the torque to amp rate.
That means you will need more amps to get the same effect with lower amps at lower Kv.
I hope my understanding is right here.
Of course at the end 800Arms @ 12,08Kv was good for 4,4 sec from 0-100kph, so maybe 1600Arms @ 17,6Kv will be good for 3,XX seconds.
But the price for a rewound here in GER will be around 2-3000€ and nobody has really experience with it.
And I don´t have any experience with motors, no time and no area to manage it (living room? = absolutely no go)!

So I will continue with axial flux motor and middrive system.
Attachments
Schwinge 007.JPG
Schwinge 007.JPG (137.36 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
Schwinge 012.JPG
Schwinge 012.JPG (154.79 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Jul 20 2018 8:51pm

What will you do with the motor? As-is it's nothing more than a boat anchor, but in the right hands it can be made useful.

Yes your understanding regarding current needs and Kv changes is correct in the previous post, but based on previous comments I think you have much to learn about hubmotors (as do the vast majority of hubmotor users) in order to maximize a specific motor's potential. In this case, while increasing Kv proportionately decreases torque/amp (and current handling), the dual winding gives you the ability to double amps input, so more torque (since Kv only would increase by 60%). More torque + higher rpm at your voltage guarantees a better time in the 1/4th.

Paying for a German rewind doesn't make sense at that price, so good luck with the new setup.

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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by parabellum » Jul 21 2018 1:25pm

John in CR wrote:
Jul 20 2018 8:51pm
What will you do with the motor? As-is it's nothing more than a boat anchor, but in the right hands it can be made useful.
I think, Rovii is a very gifted and handy man and after a season end can take some time, read through some rewind threads on ES, learn more about Kv, Kt, R phase to phase and finally wind an exceptional hub for next season.
There is no special place needed to wind a motor, I started winding in my lab room and ended winding 3-5 tooth’s a day in my living room, looking youtube videos, to not get bored.
It took some hours a day because I used thickest magnet wire I could get between tooth’s and every wind must be pried in properly to fit adjacent tooth wire after. If he takes thinner wire with multiple strands (like QS does) it goes much quicker.

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Jul 21 2018 4:34pm

I've got over 50 A123 amp20's just waiting to drive a motor like that I think that unlike the original 273's like the one I have with the crazy high slot and pole count, and the newer 273's like Rovii's have a slot count divisible by 6. If so, then instead of split windings, I would wind it as 6 phase for more turns per tooth to pick up the extra inductance so I could wind it for a Kv of about 20-25rpm/v without being too hard to drive, and use 2 controllers and not need to go to such high voltage. Who knows, maybe even wind it for 6 phase and split the windings to be able to use 4 cheap controllers and still be able to deliver the power it deserves.

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 24 2018 5:57am

Maybe in winter time I take a look on it, well I have a bicycle where I can use the motor too ... by doing some modification later on!

But now my heart already beat for the new update of rolling chassie or better ... new swingarm.

So here you will see a sketch how it looks like:
Schwinge 003_swing arm sketch_klein.jpg
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Ianhill   1 MW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Ianhill » Jul 24 2018 10:12am

That's a lot of records you have broken are they personal bests ?

It must of cost a bomb to make all them rides, surely rather than mess about with the 273 motor get a zforce from zero motors and beat all your record's in one run,

Im no expert just a hobbyiest but from what ive learnt once the rpm get's high the 273 rotor design will lead to leakage along each magnets edge and grow with rpm, the faster you spin it the hotter them magnets are going to get and thats without copper/iron losses, going well past a motors intended rpm without ways of controlling heat from skewed stator slots or magnet segmentation etc is risky business with surface mount permanent magnet motors they can suffer over time with magnet weakening and kv change and are very vulnerable in this respect compared to an ipm.

A motor that has a lot of cogging also has its troubles with smooth rotor control and can be physically heard firing, I'm about to get a 205 55h 4000w qs 10 inch hub for a 96v 10kw pitbike project so I'm no hater they do some cracking kit but really you have pushed the 273 more than hard enough I'd be think of trying to get the cream of the crop if you have the funds and that's a zforce motor all day long unless your bill Gates then get a lightning ls or a ninja h2r.

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 24 2018 1:56pm

Yes I did this records step by step via using different controllers by my own.

Of course I think a zero motor can beat this easily.
H2R Ninja, LS 218 are nice bikes but 50-60k€ I don’t want to spend for a complete finished designed motorcycle.
I want to design it myself.
I really don’t know which will be actually my next motor. But he should hold the power Band I want to use. I know it’s possible to put more power on such a motor but I also can’t print money!
So the next invest will me cost a little bit more money and therefore I have to wait a little bit!

But will also have fun by building/creating on my motorcycle.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Ianhill » Jul 26 2018 12:15pm

You been bite bad by the electric bug by looks, making it yourself always gives a feeling of accomplishment never had that from something I've bought.

That's a kick ass ride well done on them times no slouch.

Fastest I've ever been is 245 kph in a rover metro and that was slurping lots of fuel and had well over 200bhp per ton, it's as small as the geo metro just got a lot more potential.

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 30 2018 12:24am

Got now my new rim and tire ...
Attachments
PVM 016_klein.jpg
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Ianhill   1 MW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Ianhill » Jul 30 2018 1:04pm

Looks awesome proper ghost bike, I wonder how small a Nissan leaf motor could be made with some chopping and losing the diff etc, I'd be looking at all the production EV cars and see what if any could be adapted to get a powerful small motor if the leaf could be condensed then my god would you need a monster of a chain, not sure on the KV though and the final drive they use to say if it's any use in the first place but I think it does 15krpm with close on 400v so that ain't gonna help so I'm chatting a bit but there's got to be some hidden gem out there for your cause.

A leaf bike with 400v mind would be like WINNING lol.

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 31 2018 6:25am

And what is the torque of 15krpm Nissan Leaf motor?
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Ianhill » Jul 31 2018 7:05am

320nm at 110kw with a 360v pack stock so I assume it's around 300 battery amps.
Arlo has an honda crx with one of these in there on overdrive and it chooches like a gooden over double the stock output perfect for a 10 second drag strip.

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Aug 01 2018 3:32am

Maybe I found now a controller which can drive several motor types:

Scott Drive SD300 (New Zealand)

Not small, not light weight but very powerful!
Up to 890VDC, 600Arms and could be handle over 300kW.

Does anybody here has experience with this controller or now something about it?
The price is much cheaper than RMS.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Aug 02 2018 1:49am

New update regarding my original lateral upright.
he has contact to the Motolug trailer because of the deepness to bottom ground.
Therefore I tested now a new solution coming from the moto cross area/section.
Attachments
IMG_4681.JPG
IMG_4681.JPG (127.83 KiB) Viewed 1433 times
IMG_4678.JPG
IMG_4678.JPG (103.3 KiB) Viewed 1433 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Aug 08 2018 8:41am

Update the main frame via removing the adaption of the side stand.
Now she is standing in balance on the Motolug trailer.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Aug 08 2018 11:54pm

I already started now with rebuild the bike electric ...
Attachments
428EF655-D323-4F12-89B3-21E276EB12AA.jpeg
428EF655-D323-4F12-89B3-21E276EB12AA.jpeg (111.08 KiB) Viewed 1333 times
2DADDE9B-FBAD-4D50-9348-DD37C7161106.jpeg
2DADDE9B-FBAD-4D50-9348-DD37C7161106.jpeg (127.67 KiB) Viewed 1333 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Aug 15 2018 11:55pm

I decide myself now for the next controller and motor combination but the motor will be produced earliest at next year. Also the controller manufactuerer told me that he wants to test the motor first and then I can do my order. Therefore I will get also a correct setting of the controller.

To be continued ...
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Aug 16 2018 8:16am

That gives you time to reconsider trying to make the most of your hubmotor. Once you consider the working radius of the hug amount of magnetic flux of an 80mm wide 273mm diameter motor that is capable of far more torque than any motor close to it's weight range after you subtract the wheel and drive line weight inherent in any mid-drive setup, and consider it's rpm potential somewhere near 2000rpm, you'll realize that you didn't scratch the surface of what is possible with that hubmotor that needs to run at load for periods of less than 12 seconds.

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by macribs » Aug 16 2018 10:35am

Man it would be cool to see a hub motor taken to the absolute extreme.

Anyway it has been cool following your builds Rovi, and I am sure whatever setup you run next season we will see major slashing of lap times. Would be cool to see you race against a Tesla next year. Iirc they are doing tens now on the strip. Tens in the evening and then driving the kids to school in morning with the same car, that is something.

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Ianhill » Aug 16 2018 3:12pm

Without multiple testing to destruction we don't really know where the repeatable failure points are, max stall torque and max/power at a given rpm.
I watched a guy use a Lego motor maxxed out for a toy lifting crane, he mapped its torque on a graph vs volts with 10 second burst until a failure occurred.
He was feeding the max amps he could deliver without a meltdown then he would up the volts in stages while using a luggage scale and a large weight to get a ruff idea of the lifting capacity.
Ideally something like this needs to be done with the hub to be sure your on the limit a few must be destroyed, put it in a jig and see just how much it will lift until it taps out.
Then use that info to load the motor up while its at max rpm and watch the loaded vs unloaded rpm slip from each other when the rpm slip is 30% of unloaded the motor is working hard there's not much left and there you have the limits of the motor easy enough to do in the home with a scalextric motor but a big hub will need some beefy strain gauges lock it down on a dnyo probably be easier and give it the beans till a melt down in the name of science.

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Aug 16 2018 10:25pm

Well to be honest my next run will be earliest in 2020!
I have to save money first ...
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by macribs » Aug 17 2018 1:32am

Maybe you need to consider signing up for patreon? This is something worth supporting, and would be nice to see you make it ready to race for the 2019 season rather then 2020.


Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Aug 20 2018 1:05am

Well I use the time in between to sattle new top speed records with my second toy ;-):

https://youtu.be/7rStMTrmRJM

This makes fun too!

Actually top speed is 27mph (43,45kph)
Attachments
Radsession 169a.jpg
Radsession 163a.jpg
20150101_222641Aa.jpg
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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