Rix
100 TW
Offroader said:
I tossed around the idea of lacing one of my 17x1.20 rims, yes you read that correctly wide rims to the SurRon just so I can run a a SR241 3.00-17 which I found to be the best ebike tire out there for anything above 3kw.
Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike
- Thread starter Allex
- Start date
I tossed around the idea of lacing one of my 17x1.20 rims, yes you read that correctly wide rims to the SurRon just so I can run a a SR241 3.00-17 which I found to be the best ebike tire out there for anything above 3kw.
Rix
100 TW
Jonathan1981 said:
The picture doesn't do it justice,its a really steep hill and loose at the top. Yep, the 55T is king.
macribs
10 MW
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 3,702
Rix said:As far as hill climbing goes, the 55T performed identical the 58T on the hill I had been keeping notes on. On the bottom picture, the blue line represents where the 48T stopped, up the hill a ways where the green line is represents the 52T, and the purple line is where the 55T and 58T stopped, its deep sand there and both 55T and 58T spun out. All in all, the 55T sprocket is the best option for the standard SurRon. I guess if the rider weighed under 200 pounds, the 52T would be the go to sprocket. Anyway, I like the 55T the best, and a close close 2nd is the 52T.
Can you make it up the hill after rain? Or if you go WOT before the climb starts? Have you tried to shift your weight as far back as physically possible to get rear end traction? Maybe you do a video of riding down then up that hill? Possible with another rider midways up the hill, would be easier to grasp the steepness and length of that hill. Are you riding stock tires in the rear? Think sand tire would make a difference? Maybe we are at the point where the bike actually got enough power and torque and actually needs more traction, like different tire compound, thread or even 4" width to cope with the torque?
liveforphysics
100 TW
The motor is capable of torque like its running a 200t rear, but with stock gearing top speed still if you're into more committed hotroding.
So want this bike. One thing I loved doing is climbing stairs with my hub bike. However, that just overheats the motor like crazy, I even melted the epoxy on my cromotor magnets once doing it. Really steep stairs also would need lots of speed or the motor would stall mid way.
This could make the ultimate stair climbing bike. I've been eyeing some huge stairs around Manhattan that I want to climb, some on buildings like librarys and museums
. Stairs are just so fun to climb.
Since I'll be going away for a few months to South east Asia this winter, I'm going to just wait for the new model coming out at this point.
This could make the ultimate stair climbing bike. I've been eyeing some huge stairs around Manhattan that I want to climb, some on buildings like librarys and museums
. Stairs are just so fun to climb. Since I'll be going away for a few months to South east Asia this winter, I'm going to just wait for the new model coming out at this point.
Rix
100 TW
macribs said:Rix said:As far as hill climbing goes, the 55T performed identical the 58T on the hill I had been keeping notes on. On the bottom picture, the blue line represents where the 48T stopped, up the hill a ways where the green line is represents the 52T, and the purple line is where the 55T and 58T stopped, its deep sand there and both 55T and 58T spun out. All in all, the 55T sprocket is the best option for the standard SurRon. I guess if the rider weighed under 200 pounds, the 52T would be the go to sprocket. Anyway, I like the 55T the best, and a close close 2nd is the 52T.
Can you make it up the hill after rain? Or if you go WOT before the climb starts? Have you tried to shift your weight as far back as physically possible to get rear end traction? Maybe you do a video of riding down then up that hill? Possible with another rider midways up the hill, would be easier to grasp the steepness and length of that hill. Are you riding stock tires in the rear? Think sand tire would make a difference? Maybe we are at the point where the bike actually got enough power and torque and actually needs more traction, like different tire compound, thread or even 4" width to cope with the torque?
In the bottom left hand corner of the picture you can see the post I used as the starting point for all hill climb tests. So I am getting a little bit of a run at the hill. I think the 55 and 58T would climb the hill completely after a rain as wet sand usually yields excellent traction. But it almost never rains here in Fallon NV. Our annual rain fall is about 4 inches on a wet year.
macribs
10 MW
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 3,702
Rix said:macribs said:Rix said:As far as hill climbing goes, the 55T performed identical the 58T on the hill I had been keeping notes on. On the bottom picture, the blue line represents where the 48T stopped, up the hill a ways where the green line is represents the 52T, and the purple line is where the 55T and 58T stopped, its deep sand there and both 55T and 58T spun out. All in all, the 55T sprocket is the best option for the standard SurRon. I guess if the rider weighed under 200 pounds, the 52T would be the go to sprocket. Anyway, I like the 55T the best, and a close close 2nd is the 52T.
Can you make it up the hill after rain? Or if you go WOT before the climb starts? Have you tried to shift your weight as far back as physically possible to get rear end traction? Maybe you do a video of riding down then up that hill? Possible with another rider midways up the hill, would be easier to grasp the steepness and length of that hill. Are you riding stock tires in the rear? Think sand tire would make a difference? Maybe we are at the point where the bike actually got enough power and torque and actually needs more traction, like different tire compound, thread or even 4" width to cope with the torque?
In the bottom left hand corner of the picture you can see the post I used as the starting point for all hill climb tests. So I am getting a little bit of a run at the hill. I think the 55 and 58T would climb the hill completely after a rain as wet sand usually yields excellent traction. But it almost never rains here in Fallon NV. Our annual rain fall is about 4 inches on a wet year.
4" of rain each year? Wow. That is like Sahara desert dry. I was not aware. So I guess more traction it is then. I never ridden in such dry conditions so I don't how much added traction could be gained by shifting your body mass on the bike, but in the type of sand I ride, body position makes a huge difference in grip. Then again, sand is not never close to to Sahara dry. Only the top level is bone dry.
Are you riding Shinko on Sur Ron as well? Did you manage to fit a 3.5" shinko on it or running smaller ones on the Sur Ron? Think different tire compound would make a difference in grip? Last resort would be wide ass rear tire, but I guess that would require a swing arm rebuild to get ≥ 4" of tire width. Swing arm made in aluminum or steel?
3DTOPO
1 kW
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2018
- Messages
- 499
macribs said:
When I am riding up really steep hills (~40-45 degrees), I have to lean as forward as possible and even then the front wheel is trying to lift off the ground from the steep angle and required torque. So I would guess that leaning back isn't really an option there.
Which, incidentally, is why I think running a bigger front wheel would do me more harm than good. Just a few more degrees leaning back would probably make the difference of me landing on my head instead of getting up a steep grade.
I would venture to guess that a sand specific tread pattern would help more than anything for Rix's test hill. Something like these:
https://www.motosport.com/product/?...01-Y001&pssource=true&rkg_id=0&segment=badger
or a paddle tread (though would probably need to source one not quite as wide):
https://www.motosport.com/cheng-shin-rear-paddle-tire
I bet the 100/90-19 would fit - but might need the side knobs trimmed off.
macribs said:
Oh man If you could get a 100/90/19 to fit....IRC M5B with a Bridgestone HD tube or tubeless....bring a bike pump and run that puppy so it feels like a flat volleyball!!!.....mmmmmm Hill climbing champ! Of course it would weigh about 29 million pounds.........
Rix
100 TW
macribs said:Rix said:macribs said:Rix said:As far as hill climbing goes, the 55T performed identical the 58T on the hill I had been keeping notes on. On the bottom picture, the blue line represents where the 48T stopped, up the hill a ways where the green line is represents the 52T, and the purple line is where the 55T and 58T stopped, its deep sand there and both 55T and 58T spun out. All in all, the 55T sprocket is the best option for the standard SurRon. I guess if the rider weighed under 200 pounds, the 52T would be the go to sprocket. Anyway, I like the 55T the best, and a close close 2nd is the 52T.
Can you make it up the hill after rain? Or if you go WOT before the climb starts? Have you tried to shift your weight as far back as physically possible to get rear end traction? Maybe you do a video of riding down then up that hill? Possible with another rider midways up the hill, would be easier to grasp the steepness and length of that hill. Are you riding stock tires in the rear? Think sand tire would make a difference? Maybe we are at the point where the bike actually got enough power and torque and actually needs more traction, like different tire compound, thread or even 4" width to cope with the torque?
In the bottom left hand corner of the picture you can see the post I used as the starting point for all hill climb tests. So I am getting a little bit of a run at the hill. I think the 55 and 58T would climb the hill completely after a rain as wet sand usually yields excellent traction. But it almost never rains here in Fallon NV. Our annual rain fall is about 4 inches on a wet year.
4" of rain each year? Wow. That is like Sahara desert dry. I was not aware. So I guess more traction it is then. I never ridden in such dry conditions so I don't how much added traction could be gained by shifting your body mass on the bike, but in the type of sand I ride, body position makes a huge difference in grip. Then again, sand is not never close to to Sahara dry. Only the top level is bone dry.
Are you riding Shinko on Sur Ron as well? Did you manage to fit a 3.5" shinko on it or running smaller ones on the Sur Ron? Think different tire compound would make a difference in grip? Last resort would be wide ass rear tire, but I guess that would require a swing arm rebuild to get ≥ 4" of tire width. Swing arm made in aluminum or steel?
In my former life, I competed in Enduros, Desert racing, MX and the Big Nasty Hill Climb contest. I am not the best but I know how to transition my weight forward over the bars and utilize the clutch to assist with keeping the front wheel down. That said, it wouldn't have helped here as I lost traction with body centered. Just deep soft sand on a hill. If I had more momentum, I could clear the hill, but at 245#, the SurRon just doesn't have enough to do it in stock trim. At the steepest point, which is where the 52T stopped, its about 50 degrees max. I don't think a SR241 3.5 will fit. I have a M403 70/100-19 on and there isn't alot of space on each side.
Rix said:
Out here in cali there are some pretty large sandy hill climbs and one memorable day I was on a crf 280 (punched out 250 and a bunch of other motor work done to it) and my bud was riding a :wink: lightly modded KTM 500... we went to one climb affectionately called "impossible" uh yeah I did a bunch of tire spinning,shifting and swearing at the bottom of the hill and he did a bunch of laughing and climbing at the top....We were both on the same tires at mushy grapefruit air pressure... He then in a effort to make KTM more money and expand the vast orange empire let me ride his bike....uh yeah well after wheeling up the sandy hill 1st time and hopping back on my bike depression was strong.... moral of the story... Torque is king and without it all yer gonna do is spin or burn out a motor.... oh yeah and never ride your friends bike.....
Rix
100 TW
1abv said:Rix said:
Out here in cali there are some pretty large sandy hill climbs and one memorable day I was on a crf 280 (punched out 250 and a bunch of other motor work done to it) and my bud was riding a :wink: lightly modded KTM 500... we went to one climb affectionately called "impossible" uh yeah I did a bunch of tire spinning,shifting and swearing at the bottom of the hill and he did a bunch of laughing and climbing at the top....We were both on the same tires at mushy grapefruit air pressure... He then in a effort to make KTM more money and expand the vast orange empire let me ride his bike....uh yeah well after wheeling up the sandy hill 1st time and hopping back on my bike depression was strong.... moral of the story... Torque is king and without it all yer gonna do is spin or burn out a motor.... oh yeah and never ride your friends bike.....
:lol: :lol: So much truth to this its funny, even though its not funny at the time.
Was thinking about how this bike is such a game changer as there is practically no reason to build high end hub motor bikes anymore. It seems like these fully built "turn key" ebikes will be the norm going forward, just like nobody builds their own dirt bikes or motorcycles. Parts will be more or less standardized going forward and just screw into the mounting locations. There will probably be many people selling aftermarket parts, even custom built battery packs with higher voltage and more amp hours. This is actually a really good thing.
Basically high end ebikes are finally going mainstream, and will have all sorts of custom parts available because everything will probably become standardized since we will all have the same frame.
One thing I wanted to say is it was very enjoyable and probably half the fun building my own ebike. The knowledge I gained from building my own ebike is priceless. My electrical skills and mechanical skills increased so much, as I came in this with very little electrical experience. If my first ebike was a sur-ron I would never have have bothered to learn all this stuff. I also would not have been able to do projects like swapping my NiMH hybrid car battery to a Lithium Ion battery. Or build battery packs and fix circuit boards. Make custom heating clothing, etc. All of these things were from skills i learned from building my super ebike.
That being all said, I'm happy that the Sur-Ron exists because the bike is much more dirt-bike like than my hub motor ebike will ever be.While building an ebike was fun, I surely don't want to be bothered doing that anymore if I can just buy a nice "turn key" capable ebike, that is much more refined and reliable, and has a modern high tech aluminum frame. You will also never be able to build something as good as something mass manufactered at a factory where they have a group of engineers putting 1000's of hours in design for everything, just like you would never bother to build your own motorcycle or dirt bike.
Here is a quote from Alex web page, how could you ever compete with something like this.
The Light Bee electric off-road motorbike is made by Sur-Ron. Founded in 2014 by three motorcycle and hi-tech enthusiasts. With a 30 Million USD investment and 40 engineers Light Bee came to life.
One half of the team are system engineers developing the intelligent systems that operates the motorbike. The other group of engineers are experts in vehicle design, product development and manufacturing.
Basically high end ebikes are finally going mainstream, and will have all sorts of custom parts available because everything will probably become standardized since we will all have the same frame.
One thing I wanted to say is it was very enjoyable and probably half the fun building my own ebike. The knowledge I gained from building my own ebike is priceless. My electrical skills and mechanical skills increased so much, as I came in this with very little electrical experience. If my first ebike was a sur-ron I would never have have bothered to learn all this stuff. I also would not have been able to do projects like swapping my NiMH hybrid car battery to a Lithium Ion battery. Or build battery packs and fix circuit boards. Make custom heating clothing, etc. All of these things were from skills i learned from building my super ebike.
That being all said, I'm happy that the Sur-Ron exists because the bike is much more dirt-bike like than my hub motor ebike will ever be.While building an ebike was fun, I surely don't want to be bothered doing that anymore if I can just buy a nice "turn key" capable ebike, that is much more refined and reliable, and has a modern high tech aluminum frame. You will also never be able to build something as good as something mass manufactered at a factory where they have a group of engineers putting 1000's of hours in design for everything, just like you would never bother to build your own motorcycle or dirt bike.
Here is a quote from Alex web page, how could you ever compete with something like this.
The Light Bee electric off-road motorbike is made by Sur-Ron. Founded in 2014 by three motorcycle and hi-tech enthusiasts. With a 30 Million USD investment and 40 engineers Light Bee came to life.
One half of the team are system engineers developing the intelligent systems that operates the motorbike. The other group of engineers are experts in vehicle design, product development and manufacturing.
Offroader said:
That's very approximate. Sur-Ron is a just a brand, not a company. You can read a more precise version on this article: https://evnerds.com/electric-vehicles/e-motorcycle-news/killer-electric-dirt-bike-sur-ron/
Hangzhou Qiu Long Technology Co., Ltd. was established in December 2014, the company has a team of 40 R & D engineers and designers. They are located in the traditional automobile and motorcycle capital of Chongqing and China’s Internet capital of Hangzhou. They are made out of two teams. Hangzhou team is responsible for intelligent system research and development, Chongqing team responsible for vehicle research and development. Together with the vehicle for independent design, research and development; complete intelligent system design, research and development, user experience tracking and data collection, analysis.
Also, it isn't stated in the article, but actually also the Hanzhou Qui Long Technology Co., Ltd. company wasn't founded out of nothing, it is part of a larger conglomerate (wut, you really thought you can pull 30 Million USD out of nothing for a just founded company? :lol: ) which I cannot remember the name now. They also got offices in Hong Kong IIRC.
cloudwalker
100 µW
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2018
- Messages
- 9
Hello everyone, I'm from China, it's nice and surprise to see Sur-Ron has a user base overseas, I was going to buy a light bee X and doing some research, accidentally find this forum, I read most of the pages of this thread, a lot of helpful info, thx
I noticed some people complained about the noise this bike made, that kind of worried me a little, then I did some digging and find out its more like "a feature, not a bug" type, some of you may already know, light bee is not Sur-Ron's first bike, its white ghost, and in this report[https://36kr.com/p/5066402.html], sur-ron guy mentioned, white ghost aiming to fill out the space between 200cc and 600cc in China's domestic motorcycle market, but the thing with those kinds of customer who looking for purchase is that they want the rolling sound, it's in part with high-performance motorcycles, so they designed a system mimic traditional motor's sound, and later when light bee came to the table, they basically just put that on the light bee. Also, the light bee is more like a side project went well, but never what sur-ron intended to be, from the beginning what they want to do is make motorcycle, not bikes, as you can see from the light bee, especially the frame, it's a downgrade version of white ghost frame, I mean that part is a motorcycle, not a bike.
As for the investment of sur-ron, in China we call it Alibaba's eco or Alibaba's suite, I don't know how to translate it, what it means is that its typical for high stuff members from company like Alibaba or Baidu or Tencent to resign and then go find a start up in a smaller and much more focused area, they usually ends up with big money invested from their former employer, in this case, the Alibaba. Because two of the three founders is from Alibaba and another is from traditional motorcycle industry. Apparently that's how China's new start up company works nowadays -> Nepotism. New internet blood alone with huge resources rushing into the old fields, and shaking things up.
I noticed some people complained about the noise this bike made, that kind of worried me a little, then I did some digging and find out its more like "a feature, not a bug" type, some of you may already know, light bee is not Sur-Ron's first bike, its white ghost, and in this report[https://36kr.com/p/5066402.html], sur-ron guy mentioned, white ghost aiming to fill out the space between 200cc and 600cc in China's domestic motorcycle market, but the thing with those kinds of customer who looking for purchase is that they want the rolling sound, it's in part with high-performance motorcycles, so they designed a system mimic traditional motor's sound, and later when light bee came to the table, they basically just put that on the light bee. Also, the light bee is more like a side project went well, but never what sur-ron intended to be, from the beginning what they want to do is make motorcycle, not bikes, as you can see from the light bee, especially the frame, it's a downgrade version of white ghost frame, I mean that part is a motorcycle, not a bike.
As for the investment of sur-ron, in China we call it Alibaba's eco or Alibaba's suite, I don't know how to translate it, what it means is that its typical for high stuff members from company like Alibaba or Baidu or Tencent to resign and then go find a start up in a smaller and much more focused area, they usually ends up with big money invested from their former employer, in this case, the Alibaba. Because two of the three founders is from Alibaba and another is from traditional motorcycle industry. Apparently that's how China's new start up company works nowadays -> Nepotism. New internet blood alone with huge resources rushing into the old fields, and shaking things up.
cloudwalker said:Hello everyone, I'm from China, it's nice and surprise to see Sur-Ron has a user base overseas, I was going to buy a light bee X and doing some research, accidentally find this forum, I read most of the pages of this thread, a lot of helpful info, thx
As for the investment of sur-ron, in China we call it Alibaba's eco or Alibaba's suite, I don't know how to translate it, what it means is that its typical for high stuff members from company like Alibaba or Baidu or Tencent to resign and then go find a start up in a smaller and much more focused area, they usually ends up with big money invested from their former employer, in this case, the Alibaba. Because two of the three founders is from Alibaba and another is from traditional motorcycle industry. Apparently that's how China's new start up company works nowadays -> Nepotism. New internet blood alone with huge resources rushing into the old fields, and shaking things up.
Then why isnt the bike sold through Alibaba / Aliexpress?
Can you translate the news updates from surron WeChat?
Quick water test on https://instagram.com/p/BnEYw__hnpE/
By the way two main Distributors have been announced in Europe to provide full unit/tech/parts support and stock more data to follow next week
By the way two main Distributors have been announced in Europe to provide full unit/tech/parts support and stock more data to follow next week
cloudwalker
100 µW
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2018
- Messages
- 9
I don't know why they not selling it overseas through e-commer either, they do sell it on Taobao as their official online store in China though.Dext3r said:
As for the news in Wechat, don't know which one you were referring to, but the latest one is talking about sponsor a downhill match called HIBP Enduro, they managed to set up a sub-match with special trail just for the light bee, but this sub-match is more of a commercial show off than a serious match from what I take, they also mentioned sur-ron is about to hold their own event throughout China, something like that.
Also, fun fact, I used to live in Hangzhou from 2014-2015, my former company is literally 500m away from Alibaba's headquarter, should I know about sur-ron then, I'd join them, what a lost!
artisanstone
10 W
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2018
- Messages
- 80
Just got Luna's "bash plate". First impressions: I'm glad they made it and it does look stronger than original, but good lord! That is the worst welding I've ever seen. They really need to hire it out or send one of their employees to welding school. Motomoto, have you seen one? I'd imagine you would have a heart attack given your background.
artisanstone
10 W
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2018
- Messages
- 80
artisanstone
10 W
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2018
- Messages
- 80
LOL. I remember their wheelbuilder got some flak too, and he went off on some sort of (drunken) rage on the guy on reddit.
The answer is always similar "I've been doing this for 10 years, how dare you tell me..." Well that doesn't mean you haven't been doing shite work for 10 years mate.
The answer is always similar "I've been doing this for 10 years, how dare you tell me..." Well that doesn't mean you haven't been doing shite work for 10 years mate.
