Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

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urga   10 mW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by urga » Aug 28 2018 10:17am

John
Is there a setup wizard on the BLDC tool ? I know there is on the Vesc tool in your tutorial. Can I use the Vesc tool rather the the BLDC tool that came with the focbox ?
Regards
David

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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Aug 28 2018 9:43pm

There is no wizard in the BLDC tool. This tool is basically obsolete. It works fine but too many unknown parameters always made it difficult to work with.

Use the new Vesc tool. Its also free and much easier to use. Every parameter is explained with a hover over pop up. You will probably need to install new firmware once you go to the Vesc tool but isn't hard to do. Just follow the Firmware update prompts.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Aug 29 2018 6:05am

Letting you know my package arrived - thanks!

Could you send me the manual and the code/instructions for the button/Arduino Nano?

Also wondering that the "metr Bluetooth interface" is?

Cheers!

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Aeron » Aug 29 2018 2:13pm

liamcaff wrote:
Aug 29 2018 6:05am
Could you send me the manual and the code/instructions for the button/Arduino Nano?
If you could send it to me too, that would be nice :)

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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Aug 29 2018 5:33pm

Will do on both accounts.
Also wondering that the "metr Bluetooth interface" is?
It is an interface that allows you view a bunch of operating parameters from the Vesc on your smart phone
https://metr.at/
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by kevo » Sep 02 2018 7:36am

Kepler wrote:
Aug 19 2018 9:42pm
I can do a full package excluding battery and metr bluetooth interface. Will send you a PM.
John,

Could you PM on full package as well?

Thanks,
Kevin
Thanks Justin of http://ebikes.ca for your amazing talents, dedication and contributions to ES!
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by caz » Sep 04 2018 5:45am

another manual for me too thanks..

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Sep 04 2018 12:40pm

Has anyone done a comparison of metr.at (https://flipsky.net/products/core51822- ... l_no_match)

and

the Flipsky Bluetooth module systems (https://flipsky.net/products/core51822- ... l_no_match)?

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by urga » Sep 12 2018 12:16pm

I received my bracket today,thanks!
Because I'm trying to fit this onto a BB30 frameset I cannot not see how this can be acheived without reaming the existing hole out to the available adaptors diameters,which are just the same as a normal BB30 ? I'm using the Rotor adaptor which I prefer to the Praxis one which is also available. Since they both have to seat into the BB30 frame they both require to be larger than a standard Shimano threaded BB.
Anyone else came up against this problem? If so, did you just ream out the existing hole ,or am I am missing something simple?
Regards
David

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by urga » Sep 16 2018 11:12am

Hi John
I've finally got the bracket fitted to the bike after reaming out the existing hole. Set it all up and took it for a spin. I have to say it's great fun, when it works !
I'm having problems regarding the initial take up of the motor. I have tried many different configs of the bracket angle etc ,but none are giving me a reliable take up. I've attached a video of the existing one at the moment. There's no way I can achieve 5-10mm from the top of the motor to my chain stay,but I've tried keeping it as tight as I can , and also quite far away. Both worked, but not consistently.
When I tried it out on the road some of the roads were a little damp and it didn't work at all when wet,so I'm thinking of trying to spray a rubber coating on the rotor can to see if that can help. I also think I need to fit some sort of brush to clean the tyre before it reaches the motor as the grit picked up by the tyre will find it's way into the rotors.
There's also quite a bit of clatter and squeaking from the bracket(the roads here are quite rough). Has anyone tried to dampen the system? I know it features a spring to unload the weight of the motor and help with pickup, but I'm wondering if the system could be suspended to allow for rough roads?
Anyway,despite how it might sound,I love the system you have designed and appreciate all the thought and time you have invested in it to get there.
Regards
David
https://youtu.be/64tEv7lcBLk

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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 16 2018 7:52pm

Hi David,

That video link isn't working and I definitely need to see that to diagnose what is going on. If the setup is right, engagement will be consistent. Not being able to achieve that 5mm to 10mm from the chainstay will be an issue so we need to sort that out first. You might need the extension bracket to get the reach. I have these in stock so I can get this to you quite quickly if this is needed for the geometry of your bike.

If the drive is chattering due a lot of rough road riding, I would suggest setting up the end stop so the the motor is lightly touching the tire when parked. The drag will be very minimal and hardly noticeable. Also try an increased spring pressure. Again, this will create slight drag but still quite minor.

If you want to use the drive on wet roads, you will need grip tape. Rubber to rubber doesn't grip so you are best using belt sander material. Yes it sounds extreme but if you use a 120 grit, wear will be about double to normal use which I think is acceptable.

To attached the grip tape, I use a product call Uglu https://www.amazon.com/MTR100-UGLU-Glue ... B001KFY7EY. Works very well and gives you instant stick. You can also use contact adhesive but I have had mixed results with this.
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urga   10 mW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by urga » Sep 17 2018 12:36pm

Hi John
Try this now https://youtu.be/64tEv7lcBLk
So the rubber coating is a waste of time ? I'll defer to your greater experience here and try some fine grip tape
I took the bike out for a quick spin after work . I tightened the spring right up until the motor was constantly touching the tyre and it worked 80 % of the time :P . There was a little drag from the motor but it wasn't an issue. I had strived to set this up so it was the initial kick from the motor that initiated contact with the tyre.It would seem that this initial kick isn't sufficient on this size of motor ? Is there a way to increase the initial startup input to overcome this ?
On another point,and I don't know if it's specific to my bike geometry,but I find I cannot remove the rear wheel with the drive in place.Obviously, I can just undo the 3 bolts to rotate the drive out of the way, but they would then need set up again. Could be an issue should I puncture.
I shoudn't imagine I'll need an extension bracket as it's probably the opposite that's required on this bike (Cannondale caad 10). Is ther an ideal setup ? ie should the axle and pivots points of the bracket line up to the rear wheel axle ?
I'll await your diagnosis if the video works
Thanks for all the help and advice!

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by sotaro » Sep 17 2018 3:15pm

Batteries!

What are folks using for batteries?

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 17 2018 6:41pm

This is a good sized battery for the drive https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-h ... -xt90.html

You may need an XT60 to XT90 adapter. https://hobbyking.com/en_us/xt90-male-t ... s-bag.html

Yo will need a charger. Lots of options. This one is good value for money https://hobbyking.com/en_us/imax-b6-ac- ... -copy.html
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 17 2018 7:33pm

urga wrote:
Sep 17 2018 12:36pm
Hi John
Try this now https://youtu.be/64tEv7lcBLk
So the rubber coating is a waste of time ? I'll defer to your greater experience here and try some fine grip tape
I took the bike out for a quick spin after work . I tightened the spring right up until the motor was constantly touching the tyre and it worked 80 % of the time :P . There was a little drag from the motor but it wasn't an issue. I had strived to set this up so it was the initial kick from the motor that initiated contact with the tyre.It would seem that this initial kick isn't sufficient on this size of motor ? Is there a way to increase the initial startup input to overcome this ?
On another point,and I don't know if it's specific to my bike geometry,but I find I cannot remove the rear wheel with the drive in place.Obviously, I can just undo the 3 bolts to rotate the drive out of the way, but they would then need set up again. Could be an issue should I puncture.
I shoudn't imagine I'll need an extension bracket as it's probably the opposite that's required on this bike (Cannondale caad 10). Is ther an ideal setup ? ie should the axle and pivots points of the bracket line up to the rear wheel axle ?
I'll await your diagnosis if the video works
Thanks for all the help and advice!
Ok, a picture says a 1000 words. A few issues with the setup.

Firstly, you have fitted the upper main plate (plate that attaches to the bottom bracket) the wrong way around (you can see the two plates don't line up correctly). You need to flip it. this will move the motor back a little.

Sketch2.png

Next the main bracket needs to swing forward a little. This will allow the motor to swing up higher and will improve engagement.

Sketch3.png

You have a very short bottom bracket to tire measurement on your bike so to get a little more swing out of the motor swing arm, you might need to file a small notch in the swing arm to allow it to swing higher.

Sketch4.png

So with the swingarm at its highest point, adjust the main bracket on so that the motor makes good firm contact with the tire. With the motor under full engagement, you should be able the to rotate the motor by hand but with considerable effort.

Below is about the setup you need for that bike.

Sketch5.PNG

You will find once the drive is setup correctly and the gravity spring is taking at least the weight of the motor, there will be plenty of torque kick for engagement.

With regards to removing the wheel with the drive in place, just let some of the air out of the tire. If you have a puncture, re fit the wheel before pumping it up.

Let me know how that all goes. I think that should sort you out. :)
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urga   10 mW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by urga » Sep 18 2018 12:56pm

Hi John
Yes I had already tried it all the way up and forward with no success.The arc of the swing arm starts to take the motor away from the tyre eventually. Nevertheless I filed a small indent in the swing arm to allow it to go all the way until the motor body touches the bolt.I still will never acheive 5 - 10mm on this bike. The best is about 20 mm but by then it is captured with the tyre and won't release after engagement.
I don't know if the video shows this very well but I've tried various positions of the main plate but the only way I can get it to work at all is by letting the motor drop lower again.I could drill new holes to effectively shorten the main plate with regards to the swing arm pivot point. Obviously I would lose the top stop nut, but it's defunct now anyway as the anti rotation plate bolt acts as one now.
I think my motor position is the culprit regarding removing the wheel as well.
I missed the plate reassembly mess up(I had to remove it to ream it out) but I don't think it makes too much of a difference to the tangent point.
https://youtu.be/czX5XqP1I5Q
Quite happy to live with it set lower than optimal,but just want make sure I haven't missed anything.....again!

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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 19 2018 6:31am

It seems to be pretty good in the video. So are you reaching the end stop on engagement? (anti rotation plate now the end stop). For the motor to lock out, it would need to go over centre. The centre is an imaginary line between the swing arm pivot point and the rear axle. If you look at my drawing, I have that centre line marked. As long as the motor centre stays below this, the motor can't move away from the tire due to over rotation.

If the motor is not disengaging when power is released, the gravity swing is too tight or you have some binding on the swingarm. Does the swingarm pivot freely? Make sure the shim washer is still in place.
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urga   10 mW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by urga » Sep 19 2018 12:51pm

Yes it's moving freely,however because of the small notch filed away,the swingarm now allows the motor to go all the way up to the anti rotation plate bolt. Consequently this causes the motor to climb too high and bind when deactivated. I'll modify the plate to acheive the pivot axle and rear axle to alignment ,and maybe get the motor a little closer to the chain stay as prescribed.
One last thing. When I first unplugged the battery for a charge,I had to go through the app setup again in the Vesc tool when I plugged it back in,as the button controller wouldn't work.Is it best to leave it all connected whilst charging to avoid this?
Promise I'll not bother you again after this

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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 19 2018 10:51pm

I have seen this behavior from the Vesc on first plug in. The Vesc seems to loose the endpoints. Easy to get around though.

On first startup, hold the button down for 5 seconds then followed by a short push of the button. You will find after that, the Vesc will accept the normal button commands. Not sure why the Vesc does this but easy to get around.

Lets call it a safety feature for first start up. :D

No bother by the way. More then happy to help you get the most out of the drive.
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urga   10 mW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by urga » Sep 20 2018 3:28pm

Top man ,John. Very much appreciated. I'll post a pic of the completed bike once I tidy everything up.
:D

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by cbr009 » Sep 20 2018 7:28pm

Hi John,

Borrowed a lipo battery from a friend so I could get everything set up.

I seem to only have one throttle setting, which I assume is 50%. I can toggle between throttle on and off ok, but it doesn't seem to change when I do a second 1.5 to 3 sec button push. When I first plugged in the battery, nothing seemed to work, but I think I must have done a 5 second push at some stage, because it then started working. But only one throttle level. Any thoughts?

Drive works really well, and such a light setup. :D

cheers,
Mick

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Sep 21 2018 8:04am

Finally about to be able to install this onto a nice road bike in the next few days. I've been trying different settings before I install it and was wondering what everyone is using as an on/off switch?

L

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Sep 22 2018 8:56am

Hey guys,

I was hoping to try out the Arduino code with the button throttle today buy when I went to install Visuino I found out it only works for Windows (No OSX version). Any chance anyone would have the Arduino code to send to me so I can load up my Arduino and test the throttle?

Cheers,

L

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by urga » Sep 22 2018 4:14pm

Can't help you with the code,i'm afraid ,but the button throttle is great .
I had my first longish run today 90 mins,using the motor for about 30 mins of that(need to get the bluetooth app)Disappointed with the battery life as it died before the end. I was expecting around 45 mins from a 8000mAH so I suspect I have a battery issue as cell 3 was totally empty according to the charger.
I'm still having engagement problems,but I think tha't more down to the bike geometry and rough Scottish roads . I had to retension the spring twice,so I must be having a little movement in the arm after some of the rougher sections. It's great when it's working ,though I find 100% too much for me. It'll sit at 25mph without virtually any effort from me. I prefer the 50% setting as I still like a workout on the hills.
Posted a picture of the new commuter,but already thinking of trying to get everything into a large bottle tool holder on the frame as I would prefer the weight lower down on the bike.
Great fun!
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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 23 2018 10:29pm

Yes you should have got 45 minutes out the battery. At 50% throttle you only drawing around 6 to 8 amps so that should be able to go for an hour full time assist and use 6 Ahrs to 8 Ahrs. Glad you are up and running.
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