New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

jbalat said:
Hi Casainho, this is the feature I’ve been waiting for (besides walk mode)
Firstly for my 6 pin controller do you have a better picture which can help me find the throttle wires. Or will it be obvious ?
Click to expand...
No I don't have that but I remember that was shared on this forum message -- try search for throttle wiring keywords.

jbalat said:
Secondly I assume we can switch between temperature and % watt hours used, if so can you also display the degC icon so we know which mode we are in.
Click to expand...
Good idea, I will.

jbalat said:
Third have you been able to verify that 27deg and 85deg with a normal temperature gauge so that we know the scaling is accurate ?
Click to expand...
No, I hope others as you can help on validating that -- I am focus on further development. But I do strong trust on that measures, even because LM35 output is very linear, I do not expect any surprises.
 
Found a pic
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1381615&hilit=Throttle#p1381615
 
Hi Guys,

I got TSDZ2 750w 48v with vlcd5. All was excellent until 150 km.
Now at low speed (smaller than 10km/h), I get 99km/h speed error and the engine disconnects. The engine gets connected back when hitting 10km/h+ and all is good. This very bad because I can no longer climb hard slopes.
I do not undestand why this happens.

Please help.
 
maximusdm said:
Hi Guys,

I got TSDZ2 750w 48v with vlcd5. All was excellent until 150 km.
Now at low speed (smaller than 10km/h), I get 99km/h speed error and the engine disconnects. The engine gets connected back when hitting 10km/h+ and all is good. This very bad because I can no longer climb hard slopes.
I do not undestand why this happens.

Please help.
Click to expand...

Hi,

I'm fairly certain this is a speed sensor / magnet issue. It's a touch too close which will scramble the reading. Once it's spinning fast, it goes back to normal since the contact between the sensor and the magnet is happening faster.

Try making the distance greater where spoke magnet passes the speed sensor, that should fix it.

I personally like to start farther away where I get no reading, then move it slightly closer just until I get a stable reading.

Let me know how that works.

Thanks.
 
eyebyesickle said:
maximusdm said:
Hi Guys,

I got TSDZ2 750w 48v with vlcd5. All was excellent until 150 km.
Now at low speed (smaller than 10km/h), I get 99km/h speed error and the engine disconnects. The engine gets connected back when hitting 10km/h+ and all is good. This very bad because I can no longer climb hard slopes.
I do not undestand why this happens.

Please help.
Click to expand...

Hi,

I'm fairly certain this is a speed sensor / magnet issue. It's a touch too close which will scramble the reading. Once it's spinning fast, it goes back to normal since the contact between the sensor and the magnet is happening faster.

Try making the distance greater where spoke magnet passes the speed sensor, that should fix it.

I personally like to start farther away where I get no reading, then move it slightly closer just until I get a stable reading.

Let me know how that works.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I had the same issue for me it was the speedsensor just like eyebyesickle pointed out.
In my case the magnet was also too close to the sensor.
 
Hi eyebyesickle, bart!

The problem was that the magnet was too close to the speed sensor. Exactly like you said! You need at least a 3-4 mm.
I read a lot of this thread before deciding between Bafang and Tongsheng. I think I made the right decision. This engine has a very nice normal bike feeling.
@eyebyesickle You have provided huge support for this product on this thread. Respect! It would have been a nightmare to send it back to China for nothing!

Thank you!
 
casainho said:
spiked said:
Is this high temperature something we need to worry about?
Click to expand...
Sure it is!! I hope you did read the wiki link I post that says:

The Curie temperature of high-grade Neodymium (with added terbium and dysprosium) is 320C / 600F. However, common neo magnets are made from the cheapest grade, and can start to lose some of their magnetism at around 80C (170F).

E-bike motor magnets are a grade that is slightly higher than the cheapest variety, because they are often subjected to higher temps than they should be by unsuspecting customers. Years of posted experiments by real E-bikers on endless-sphere have produced a commonly held rule-of-thumb to avoid heating your E-bike motor to above 95C (200F).

In: https://www.electricbike.com/motor-tech-learn-the-terms-part-1

spiked said:
Did you drive the motor really hard to get it this hot, or was this just a routine ride? What battery was used?
Click to expand...
I did not ride hard and was a routine ride, I was at max of 500W (about 10 amps) at some peaks. As you can see on LCD, I used 61 Watts/hour is 15 minutes so at power average of 61 *4 = 244 watts (half of that max of 50W).

At 85 degrees of the motor, outside I could touch with my hand and see it was very hot but clearly I already did touch my motor from the outside more hot than that. It is easy, the same ride I did of 15 minutes, I usually do the same type of ride but for about 60 minutes - 4 times more!!

But I hope other users can replicate my experience and so we can get more data and validate all this.
Click to expand...

Casainho: Hands down for your work! all free work it's amazing nowadays.. some other people simply would sell instead of sharing.

Today I was with the mouse pointer on the "ORDER NOW" but this made me re-think about the TSDZ2.

I have one bike with a BBS02 36v 500w (my introduction to the Ebike world), I made recently a custom bike with a BBSHD at 58.8v (it's not stealth and it's wayyy to heavy to decently pedal). I bought also a city bike with a Bosch motor, bought it second hand without charger and a broken "clunch" on the Nuvinci 360. I'm waiting the parts to arrive to test it.

I bought last month 1 Specialized Enduro Comp 2010 that I love to pedal... and want to do something midway between the city bike and the monster BBSHD that is in some cases dangerous to drive in the city.

I've not finish reading the 137 pages, but I have some questions in my head..

- 36v or 48v? the 36v have the advantage of smaller battery but... pushing it on step hills.. overheat? It seems the 48v winding can support a little bit more watts.. (I think..) but 1/3 bigger battery.
- I was thinking in the overheat problem and came with one idea.. what about using thermal heatsink pads (or Gel) between the motor and the cover? So the cover helps to dissipate the heat. The other idea was to make a cover with small fins.. for those who can solder aluminium (not me).

Casainho, I read your wiki and I think i would be great if you put the parts list that you have to buy to perform the flash (St-link, Speed sensor cable, Connectors etc..)
 
Davescustom said:
Casainho, I read your wiki and I think i would be great if you put the parts list that you have to buy to perform the flash (St-link, Speed sensor cable, Connectors etc..)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback. Please feel free to help, like writing on wiki page or trying your ideas and share knowledge.
 
Regarding the overheating issues. My other Hobby is flying R/C electric planes. Its very common for builders to inadvertently over prop and exceed the limits of their motors or batteries. Electric motors will just produce as much as you ask for without any signs of stress. Unlike a gasoline engine that gives tactile or audible cues when its straining, an electric motor will silently destroy itself without complaint. If you don't monitor the current and voltage you have no idea you are abusing it. In our case, the motor is buried and by the time you feel enough heat to be concerned, its probably been damaged internally.

The average rider who doesn't have a lot of mechanical sympathy can easily overload the system by simply forgetting to downshift when slowing. I like to let people try my bike but they all make a fast lap around the parking lot, stop to tell me how fun it is, then proceed to take off in too high of a high gear. Even people who understand this, often fall victim to their own addiction to power. Before long they are over volting and raising the amp limit. Its what we humans do....

I simple red light on the bars would be helpful to alert us to an overload condition.
 
I developed the new feature "motor temperature protection" and did the firmware release V0.10 that includes this new feature.

It works as expected and I am using min and max temperature values of 75 and 85 degrees Celsius.

I also started to improve the wiki page with the description of each feature and configurations, here is the "motor temperature protection" -- see more here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/TSDZ2-and-KT-LCD3-advanced-features-with-Flexible-OpenSource-firmwares

 
casainho said:
I developed the new feature "motor temperature protection" and did the firmware release V0.10 that includes this new feature.
Click to expand...

is the inside motor temp much higher than the outer case temp?
cause my motor is quite cool on the outside. max 45 degrees even going with 40kmh plus.
maybe because i am not going uphill but only straight so always good airflow around the case.
 
vscope said:
casainho said:
I developed the new feature "motor temperature protection" and did the firmware release V0.10 that includes this new feature.
Click to expand...
is the inside motor temp much higher than the outer case temp?
Click to expand...
Yes it is!!
 
Regards. I’m thinking about get a tsdz2 ebike kit for my old mtb, but I havs a critical doubt:

Can anywhere sure me if this motor is waterproof. It is important for me, as I use the bike for goin to work and, although my area is not very wet, there is heavy rain ocasionally. Also, I would like if this type of battery is waterproof too: http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-2v-sy7p

I hope that you can help me, as it is the forum with more information about this motor that I have finded.

Pd: By the way, I’m new in this forum so nice to meet you.
 
Sark89 said:
Regards. I’m thinking about get a tsdz2 ebike kit for my old mtb, but I havs a critical doubt:

Can anywhere sure me if this motor is waterproof. It is important for me, as I use the bike for goin to work and, although my area is not very wet, there is heavy rain ocasionally. Also, I would like if this type of battery is waterproof too: http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-2v-sy7p

I hope that you can help me, as it is the forum with more information about this motor that I have finded.

Pd: By the way, I’m new in this forum so nice to meet you.
Click to expand...
I ride work every day rain or shine, I have even taken the motor through water and mud holes offroad and never had any issues. Saying that my friend has the same motor and did find a little bit of water in his after a muddy offroad ride.
I think just some regular maintenance and you should be right.
The only issue I have had with water was on a heavy rain water got into the old VLCD5 display. I let it dry off for a couple of days and it was fine.
 
I just successfully wired and flashed an LCD3 display and a 48v TSDZ2 motor with the Flexible Opensource Firmware. Following the wiki and Jbalat's videos, it was fairly straightforward. It helped to be warned about the STM8S105x6 instead of STM8S105x4 in the STLink configuration, right-clicking the raw button to download the hex files, and paying attention to rx and tx wiring.

After watching a few videos from Casainho and Jbalat I was expecting the LCD3 to be difficult to use and setup. I was totally wrong on that front. It is very intuitive to use and easy to configure. Just make sure you have the instructions from the wiki and it is easy to navigate the menus and set up.

Thanks, Casainho, Jbalat, et al!!! I will install it on a bike tomorrow and then if all goes well I will flash a coaster brake TSDZ2 for a handcycle later this week.
 
jbalat said:
Sark89 said:
Regards. I’m thinking about get a tsdz2 ebike kit for my old mtb, but I havs a critical doubt:

Can anywhere sure me if this motor is waterproof. It is important for me, as I use the bike for goin to work and, although my area is not very wet, there is heavy rain ocasionally. Also, I would like if this type of battery is waterproof too: http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-2v-sy7p

I hope that you can help me, as it is the forum with more information about this motor that I have finded.

Pd: By the way, I’m new in this forum so nice to meet you.
Click to expand...
I ride work every day rain or shine, I have even taken the motor through water and mud holes offroad and never had any issues. Saying that my friend has the same motor and did find a little bit of water in his after a muddy offroad ride.
I think just some regular maintenance and you should be right.
The only issue I have had with water was on a heavy rain water got into the old VLCD5 display. I let it dry off for a couple of days and it was fine.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I suppose that you have a cup-holder battery too, I’m right?
 
Rydon said:
I will install it on a bike tomorrow and then if all goes well I will flash a coaster brake TSDZ2 for a handcycle later this week.
Click to expand...
Hmmm... I am not sure it will work well for TSDZ2 coaster brake.... please share your experience later!! Also some pictures if possible.
 
casainho said:
Rydon said:
I will install it on a bike tomorrow and then if all goes well I will flash a coaster brake TSDZ2 for a handcycle later this week.
Click to expand...
Hmmm... I am not sure it will work well for TSDZ2 coaster brake.... please share your experience later!! Also some pictures if possible.
Click to expand...

just curious ... what are your concerns with it working on coaster brake? The main thing is the motor needs to stop instantly when you stop pedaling as the coaster brake motor does not freewheel at the cranks. This is also why throttle and walk assist are disabled on coaster brake motors.
 
Sark89 said:
Thanks for the info. I suppose that you have a cup-holder battery too, I’m right?
Click to expand...
No I think the standard types look ugly so I 3D printed my own battery case. Hopefully it is weather proof. It has a drain hole at the bottom just in case.
 

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About the motor temperature

Now that I installed the temperature sensor and the firmware reduces automatically the motor power at over temperature, I am using the TSDZ2 at max power using the 18 amps. It works very well for my short rides of 15/20 minutes (~6kms) and after that it starts to reduce the power -- that is good to me because on that city short rides I want to be fast and for long rides I usually want to save battery power so I reduce anyway the power to the motor.

I configured the temperature limits to 75 -> 85 degrees (starts to reduce motor power at 75 and totally cuts at 85). Maybe I can go higher like 85 -> 95 degrees but currently I am not much interested to risk my motor.
 
EndlessCadence said:
casainho said:
About the motor temperature

Now that I installed the temperature sensor and the firmware reduces automatically the motor power at over temperature, I am using the TSDZ2 at max power using the 18 amps.
....
Click to expand...
Interesting feature! Are you running 36V or 48V?
Click to expand...
48V and soon I will switch to 52V.
 
Hello everyone, I have been following the work of casahino and jbalat for some time and I find it impressive!

I have the 48v tsdz2 and I have bought the kt-lcd3 and the stlink / v2, I've seen the 4 videos to flash the software and it's simple for me.
But what I can not get is to download the sofware stlink V2 for windows in st.com , I can not download the firmware hex file for tsdz2.... hex!!
I need your help, it sure is very easy but it is becoming a headache for me!
Sorry for my english traslation!
Best regards
 
Thank you very much for your answer, but it is impossible to download STlink from the web, I downloaded it from "www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2programmingfromscratch", I have run the program but it gives me the error "Error: Can not communicate with the tool.
Wrong tool selection or check tool power supply or check that a previous session is closed.
Error: <PROGRAM MEMORY programming failed.
Error: <Operation aborted "
I checked the connections and I think they are correct. some idea for a solution.
Best regards
 
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