KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW)

Electric Motors and Controllers
geofft   1 kW

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by geofft » Sep 06 2018 5:54am

casainho wrote:
Sep 06 2018 5:35am


Exchange ui8_adc_torque_sensor_min_value and ui8_adc_torque_sensor_max_value for the fixed values you need.
Thanks! Will try tomorrow.. :)
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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by stancecoke » Sep 06 2018 5:56am

casainho wrote:
Sep 06 2018 4:20am
Hmmm, I am not seeing what you mean by PAS time out.
there is a priority order depending on the boundary conditions in the update_setpoint.c

from highest priority to lowest:

1. linear regen (if activated) --> control duty cyle to get wanted regen current
2. undervoltage protection --> switch off pwm
3. brake/digital regen --> control duty cyle to zero battery current (or regen current, if activated)
4. erps limitig --> control duty cycle to maximum erps
5. PAS timeout --> control duty cyle to zero battery current

6. Power the motor according to the selected ride mode

So if PAS has timed out (PAS_counter>PAS_timeout) you will not reach the part of the code, where Torque/Throttle signals are processed.

regards
stancecoke

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by Xnyle » Sep 06 2018 5:53pm

Isn't there a way to make that whole "how much power to output based on input variables" code part reusable among either branch.

Also I'd like to have the possibility to play around with all the variables at runtime (through an App) which is not possible with the current rather static approach.

What I have in mind is:

You have those inputs that are always gathered:

PAS direction
PAS activity
Throttle
Torquesensorinput
Brake set
Current current target
Regen rate

Derived from that:

PAS activity Sliding window
Throttle Sliding Window
Torquesensorinput Sliding Window
Current target Sliding Window

You can change the following variables at runtime:

Sliding Window Size (x4)
Assist Level
PAS / Torquesensor needed
Digital regen (brake vs. switched)
PAS/ Torquesensor sensitivity
Max speed
Max speed without PAS
Throttle response (linear/cubic, etc.)
- maybe more, just an idea -

Output:

New Current target.

I don't even consider designing that reusable function very complicated, nothing compared to that PWM rocket science :)

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by geofft » Sep 07 2018 7:38am

casainho wrote:
Sep 06 2018 5:35am

Code: Select all

void torque_sensor_read (void)
{
  // map value from 0 up to 255
  // map value from 0 up to 255
  ui8_torque_sensor_raw = (uint8_t) (map (
      UI8_ADC_TORQUE_SENSOR,
      (uint8_t) ui8_adc_torque_sensor_min_value,
      (uint8_t) ui8_adc_torque_sensor_max_value,
      (uint8_t) 0,
      (uint8_t) 255));
Exchange ui8_adc_torque_sensor_min_value and ui8_adc_torque_sensor_max_value for the fixed values you need.
Casainho, I'm struggling to find those precise line of code - which file are they located in..?
BBS02 V2 48v 750w, 12s lipo.
Q128H (36v 201rpm), KT36/48SVPR, LCD3, 48v 12s lipo.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by casainho » Sep 07 2018 8:14am

geofft wrote:
Sep 07 2018 7:38am
casainho wrote:
Sep 06 2018 5:35am

Code: Select all

void torque_sensor_read (void)
{
  // map value from 0 up to 255
  // map value from 0 up to 255
  ui8_torque_sensor_raw = (uint8_t) (map (
      UI8_ADC_TORQUE_SENSOR,
      (uint8_t) ui8_adc_torque_sensor_min_value,
      (uint8_t) ui8_adc_torque_sensor_max_value,
      (uint8_t) 0,
      (uint8_t) 255));
Exchange ui8_adc_torque_sensor_min_value and ui8_adc_torque_sensor_max_value for the fixed values you need.
Casainho, I'm struggling to find those precise line of code - which file are they located in..?
ebike_app.c file
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by geofft » Sep 07 2018 9:38am

Casainho, I'm struggling to find those precise line of code - which file are they located in..?
ebike_app.c file
..odd, we seem to be looking at different ebike_app.c files.

The nearest I can find to the code you have quoted is:-

void throttle_read (void)
{
// read torque sensor signal
ui8_throttle_value = UI8_ADC_THROTTLE;

throttle_value_remove_offset (&ui8_throttle_value);

// map throttle value from 0 up to 255
ui8_throttle_value = (uint8_t) (map (
ui8_throttle_value,
(uint8_t) 0,
(uint8_t) ADC_THROTTLE_MAX_VALUE,
(uint8_t) 0,
(uint8_t) 255));

...which is very similar, but inputting the ADC values here (77,204) hasn't helped. Am I on the correct section of code?
Attachments
ebike_app.c
(34.92 KiB) Downloaded 44 times
BBS02 V2 48v 750w, 12s lipo.
Q128H (36v 201rpm), KT36/48SVPR, LCD3, 48v 12s lipo.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by casainho » Sep 07 2018 11:36am

geofft wrote:
Sep 07 2018 9:38am
Casainho, I'm struggling to find those precise line of code - which file are they located in..?
ebike_app.c file
..odd, we seem to be looking at different ebike_app.c files.

The nearest I can find to the code you have quoted is:-

void throttle_read (void)
{
// read torque sensor signal
ui8_throttle_value = UI8_ADC_THROTTLE;

throttle_value_remove_offset (&ui8_throttle_value);

// map throttle value from 0 up to 255
ui8_throttle_value = (uint8_t) (map (
ui8_throttle_value,
(uint8_t) 0,
(uint8_t) ADC_THROTTLE_MAX_VALUE,
(uint8_t) 0,
(uint8_t) 255));

...which is very similar, but inputting the ADC values here (77,204) hasn't helped. Am I on the correct section of code?
You need to do this:

Code: Select all

void throttle_read (void)
{
  // read torque sensor signal
  ui8_throttle_value = UI8_ADC_THROTTLE;

  // map throttle value from 0 up to 255
  ui8_throttle_value = (uint8_t) (map (
      ui8_throttle_value,
      (uint8_t) 77,
      (uint8_t) 204,
      (uint8_t) 0,
      (uint8_t) 255));
I deleted throttle_value_remove_offset (&ui8_throttle_value); on purpose.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by geofft » Sep 07 2018 1:55pm

casainho wrote:
Sep 07 2018 11:36am

You need to do this:

Code: Select all

void throttle_read (void)
{
  // read torque sensor signal
  ui8_throttle_value = UI8_ADC_THROTTLE;

  // map throttle value from 0 up to 255
  ui8_throttle_value = (uint8_t) (map (
      ui8_throttle_value,
      (uint8_t) 77,
      (uint8_t) 204,
      (uint8_t) 0,
      (uint8_t) 255));
I deleted throttle_value_remove_offset (&ui8_throttle_value); on purpose.
Many thanks Casainho, that seems to have fixed the problem. Just had a very quick test ride, seems ok, maybe a little inconsistent in it's operation at the moment but I'll play around with settings, etc, over the next few days, no doubt there are improvements to be made... :wink:
BBS02 V2 48v 750w, 12s lipo.
Q128H (36v 201rpm), KT36/48SVPR, LCD3, 48v 12s lipo.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by geofft » Sep 09 2018 12:16pm

Just thought I'd see what you guys make of this. Just recently received a new Sempu torque sensor (Gen1) and have noticed some erratic behaviour from it. Eventually decided to monitor the torque sensor o/p and realised that there was no signal o/p for a quarter turn of the pedal shaft.

What you're seeing on the video is monitoring the torque sensor (white wire) o/p. The meter needle at half scale is 1.5v, the normal rest voltage. You'll notice that for the bottom right quarter of rotation the o/p disappears.

This looks wrong to me, but may be normal - would be grateful if anyone with a sempu could just run this check and see if theirs does the same.... :?

https://youtu.be/Pje2ESLvfCs

Edit: To change generation type.
Last edited by geofft on Sep 09 2018 2:29pm, edited 1 time in total.
BBS02 V2 48v 750w, 12s lipo.
Q128H (36v 201rpm), KT36/48SVPR, LCD3, 48v 12s lipo.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by stancecoke » Sep 09 2018 1:48pm

Sorry, yours seems to be a Sempu of the first generation, as you are using a normal chainwheel with crank. The third generation has a spider (I don't know if this part is called spider in english... ) where the chainwheel is fixed, the crank has to be an extra part.

Image

I don't have my 1.gen Sempu any longer, so I can't check if it has the same strange behaviour...
regards
stancecoke

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by geofft » Sep 09 2018 2:28pm

stancecoke wrote:
Sep 09 2018 1:48pm
Sorry, yours seems to be a Sempu of the first generation, as you are using a normal chainwheel with crank. The third generation has a spider (I don't know if this part is called spider in english... ) where the chainwheel is fixed, the crank has to be an extra part.

Ah..ok. The seller called it the 'latest version' which I rather assumed made it gen3 - clearly this is not so.

To be specific, it's the T2 version, middle wire, 10-60v.
BBS02 V2 48v 750w, 12s lipo.
Q128H (36v 201rpm), KT36/48SVPR, LCD3, 48v 12s lipo.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by stancecoke » Sep 09 2018 3:09pm

So it seems to be a enhanced release of the first generation, where the torque-signal is generated by measuring the bending of the shaft...
Is the zero value appearing, if you are pedaling forwards, too? Perhaps it's a kind of direction detection signal.

regards
stancecoke

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by geofft » Sep 09 2018 4:21pm

stancecoke wrote:
Sep 09 2018 3:09pm
So it seems to be a enhanced release of the first generation, where the torque-signal is generated by measuring the bending of the shaft...
Is the zero value appearing, if you are pedaling forwards, too? Perhaps it's a kind of direction detection signal.
The quarter turn dead spot (zero value) occurs in either pedal direction. With casainho's torque-only torque sensor fw this creates a 90 deg section of pedal rotation where the motor won't start with pedal pressure, this is how I first noticed the issue.

Anyway, thanks for the information, I obviously need to do some homework on the different types. I thought all the Sempu's worked by shaft bending (as opposed to twisting..?), it sounds like the later generations are a better option..
BBS02 V2 48v 750w, 12s lipo.
Q128H (36v 201rpm), KT36/48SVPR, LCD3, 48v 12s lipo.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by stancecoke » Sep 12 2018 12:11pm

I've implemented the assistance from standstill in torquesensor-mode, after a user in the german forum asked for a similar function in PAS+THROTTLE mode, too. Now the throttle works as push assistant up to 6 km/h in all ride modes. For correct 6km/h the gear ratio has to have the correct value.
I've not tested the "Torque-Override" in torquesensor-mode on the street yet, only with my testbench.
geofft, perhaps you can try it and give feedback.
I've published it in a new fork, to avoid conflicts with the newer commits of Xnyle:
https://github.com/stancecoke/BMSBatter ... e_Override

As I used an older commit as starting point, the java tool is older, too.
I hope we can come back to a common master with Xnyles activies soon.

regards
stancecoke

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by mutetus » Sep 12 2018 12:52pm

I bought a KT36SVPR controller after all and after investigating it for a while and finding out the read out protection was enabled, decided to go for it and flashed it with this firmware and presumably a safe configuration to begin with and then: Boom! Nothing happens...

Well, I was kinda expecting this. Not that your firmware sucks, but I always tend to miss some crucial bits of information and obvious steps and break things while assembling them :D Well, at least the LCD shows full battery so at least the program is running. I think I need to check the parameters and probably the circuit board as well.

EDIT:
Ok now I feel really stupid, this is exactly what I was talking about. Immediately after hitting submit for this post, I thought about the "Throttle and PAS" option and decided to quickly try the Torque-Simulation and ta-da, it's alive! You see, the bike with the factory parts never required me to hit the throttle before pedaling so that's what threw me off the trail. This is just beautiful and it seems to run with no problems.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by geofft » Sep 13 2018 3:13am

mutetus wrote:
Sep 12 2018 12:52pm
I thought about the "Throttle and PAS" option and decided to quickly try the Torque-Simulation and ta-da, it's alive! You see, the bike with the factory parts never required me to hit the throttle before pedaling so that's what threw me off the trail. This is just beautiful and it seems to run with no problems.
Well done for getting it up and running, it's all a bit confusing when you first start. Have you played with 'offroad mode' yet? This will give you always-on throttle in Torque-sim mode... :wink:
BBS02 V2 48v 750w, 12s lipo.
Q128H (36v 201rpm), KT36/48SVPR, LCD3, 48v 12s lipo.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by geofft » Sep 13 2018 6:50am

I've not tested the "Torque-Override" in torquesensor-mode on the street yet, only with my testbench.
geofft, perhaps you can try it and give feedback.
stancecoke, I seem to be having all sorts of torque sensor issues at the moment, all hardware related I think. I'm giving up with this for the time being and have gone back to using torque-sim fw for now.
Will re-visit this sometime in the future and hopefully give you some useful feedback.
BBS02 V2 48v 750w, 12s lipo.
Q128H (36v 201rpm), KT36/48SVPR, LCD3, 48v 12s lipo.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by mutetus » Sep 13 2018 7:22am

geofft wrote:
Sep 13 2018 3:13am
Well done for getting it up and running, it's all a bit confusing when you first start. Have you played with 'offroad mode' yet? This will give you always-on throttle in Torque-sim mode... :wink:
No, haven't got into that part yet, I was so tired last night after getting it to work in the first place :) I'm gonna study the features a bit more now and see how the code works. Hoping to be of some help for this project somehow. I could immediately see few spots for code optimization at least (which the programmers probably know already, even I don't begin the coding by optimizing :D ). Not sure about the code formatting though, it seemed to vary anyways.
I also now have LCD7 with usb port for bluetooth-module, I already ordered more crap (like my wife thinks about it) to build the bt transceiver.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by stancecoke » Sep 13 2018 12:45pm

geofft wrote:
Sep 13 2018 6:50am
stancecoke, I seem to be having all sorts of torque sensor issues at the moment, all hardware related I think. I'm giving up with this for the time being and have gone back to using torque-sim fw for now.
It looks like you're really out of luck with your torquesensors :(
Where did you buy them?

You can try the new fork anyway, as it enables the push assistance from standstill in torque-simulation mode now, too. Perhaps that's useful for you.

I'll try the torquesensor-mode this weekend probably.

regards
stancecoke

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by geofft » Sep 13 2018 2:52pm

It looks like you're really out of luck with your torquesensors :(
Partly unlucky and also a large dose of stupidity on my part. The first one I received had the torque o/p stuck on 3.0v (should be 1.5v) with no reaction to pedal torque - but it was over 3 months after purchase before I tested it, so unsurprisingly the seller wasn't interested in helping.

The second one I made a stupid careless mistake when installing and without thinking spun the collar on the wrong side to finally tighten the sensor in the bottom bracket. This rotated the entire unit inside the bottom bracket and wrenched the cable off... :oops:
Managed to splice and reconnect the cable and initially all appeared to be working well with your software, but now I seem to have further problems. I'm guessing that wrenching the cable has caused other issues inside the sensor.

So at the moment I'm feeling pretty pissed off with myself for being so clumsy, so best to give this a rest for now. When I'm in a better frame of mind I'll remove and try to dismantle this sensor to see what damage is done and hopefully make a repair.

Seller was Phoebeliu - they seem to have provided many of these sensors without issue and I don't really hold them responsible for my mistakes - I'll probably have to 'write this off to experience' as the English saying goes.... :(
BBS02 V2 48v 750w, 12s lipo.
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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by stancecoke » Sep 14 2018 11:13am

OK, I hope you'll be able to repair one of the sensors :-)
It is a pity that there is no European dealer who sells the Sempus at a fair price.
I only know one german offer in bundle with a controller and display...

regards
stancecoke

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by gulczas » Sep 14 2018 4:18pm

Question to you guys,
I have got the controller KT48ZWSRL and I've found the information "T36/48 ZWS types have no phase current sensor mounted, so you can't use the simplified FOC with them!" Does it mean that Sinewave mode just doesn't work ?
Are there any advantages of flexible opensource firmware for KT48ZWS controllers ? Is worth to install it ?
Thanks for the response in advance.
Jerzy

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by stancecoke » Sep 15 2018 4:10am

gulczas wrote:
Sep 14 2018 4:18pm
Are there any advantages of flexible opensource firmware for KT48ZWS controllers ?
Main advantages:
- less noise (sinusodial commutation)
- possibility to connect a torquesensor directly

But you have to disable the simplified FOC in the code with a ZWS and you have to use the hallsensors.

Xnyle was very hardworking during the last weeks, we are very proud to present the beta release of the Android app now! We are looking for betatesters, if interested please contact Xnyle via PM or just here in the thread!

In the video you can see the Java tool for basic settings and flashing the firmware. The greyed parameters can be set with the app afterwards also. Next you can see the app and the push assistance function with the throttle up to 6 km/h and finally the motor working in torque simulation mody by turning the "pedals" :wink:
Offroad mode can be activated by the brake lever as known or by a "magic" touch to the smarthphone screen 8)

regards
stancecoke

BluOSEC.png
Last edited by stancecoke on Sep 15 2018 6:55am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by casainho » Sep 15 2018 4:19am

stancecoke wrote:
Sep 15 2018 4:10am
Xnyle was very hardworking during the last weeks, we are very proud to present the beta version of the Android app now! We are looking for betatesters, if interested please contact Xnyle via PM or just here in the thread!
What a nice looking app!!

Seems it has very tecnhical information, good for developers debug -- I assume it is not targeted for non tecnhical users.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW

Post by Xnyle » Sep 15 2018 7:56am

It would be easy to create another non technical dashboard screen.

But then its main purpose is to know and change what's going on inside that black or silver box.

For me it will replace the original display, there are cheap smartphones for under 50€/$ out there so i will just mount one of them and have more flexibility and insight than any commercially available display could ever provide.

For almost the same price that is.

Just have to find one that looks really crappy, so it doesn't get stolen :wink:

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