Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

rumme · Sep 22, 2018

MadRhino said:
Those who are too far on the left, are the exact mirror replica of those too far on the right.

People with common sense are sitting in the center.

I thought Ron Paul may have been the most honest politician of the modern era , and many of his policies / rhetoric sounded logical but I have no idea if his policies would have made the U.S. a better safer nation.

The blunt truth is this, most of us think we know whats best for the nation, but since we are not on the inside, with the facts , our opinions on these things are most likely flawed to some degree. I think a socialist America is a very bad road to go down, but hey, I could be wrong. I approach it from a perspective that if you have to give up certain freedoms you already have { speech, gun rights, etc} just to get a govt check each month, then socialism is not for me, and I dont want to be forced into it. Maybe the idea of offering people a chance to opt in or out is a cool alternative. This would mean my pal, chalo could get his $500 per month govt check, but he cant own a gun, and his freedom of speech is limited { he cant come on this forum and call people " racists" for not agreeing with is political agendas. :wink: } . I would chose to maintain my right to bear arms and my right to free speech, and forfeit my $500 per month check, giving me the right to call Chalo any derogatory names I wish. Hehehehe.

rumme · Sep 22, 2018

MadRhino said:
Those who are too far on the left, are the exact mirror replica of those too far on the right.

People with common sense are sitting in the center.

I dislike Sean Hannity just as much as Rachael Maddow. Imho, both of them are merely paid puppets , actors that lack objectivity and cause mass political divide amongst our society.

wturber · Sep 22, 2018

dustNbone said:
We had strong labour unions, and high taxes for rich people.

... and fewer social programs and way lower government spending as a percentage of GDP.

wturber · Sep 22, 2018

Chalo said:
I'll also point out how badly the majority of Americans botch the task of acting in their own interest. Between cars, children, suburban/exurban living, wage slavery, crass materialism, overconsumption, addiction, and debt-- they are their own most viciously effective enemies. I doubt an indifferent and cynical bureaucrat could do a worse job of managing their lives. The real tragedy of that is, it ruins the commons for those of us who don't suck quite as badly at life. I think it every time I (rarely) get stuck in rush hour traffic: almost all these dumb pieces of shit do this on purpose, every single day, because they simply refuse to make a better plan.

The average commute time in the US is about 25 minutes. That suggests to me that most people are probably pretty happy with the results of their decisions. Probably the single biggest thing they do wrong IMO is that they pay attention to the various media and entertainment outlets. Doing so serves to grossly distort their view of the world and skews their decision making. The other problem so many people make is assuming that their notion of what is good and preferable is the "right" notion.

wturber · Sep 22, 2018

Chalo said:
What centrist politicians believe in is more power and stuff for themselves.

That's what nearly all high level politicians believe in.

donn · Sep 22, 2018

wturber said:
Probably the single biggest thing they do wrong IMO is that they pay attention to the various media and entertainment outlets. Doing so serves to grossly distort their view of the world and skews their decision making.

It looks like there's at least general agreement on this one. I remember back in the '60s, there was some talk about teaching kids some critical thinking skills specifically directed at TV etc. Guess that didn't get very far.

rumme · Sep 22, 2018

Its nice to see the subject of TV come up in this thread. I just started a thread about that subject, a few days ago, on the toxic forum, on this site. I think TV has been massively destructive upon our society and most people dont even realize it.

wturber · Sep 22, 2018

rumme said:
Its nice to see the subject of TV come up in this thread. I just started a thread about that subject, a few days ago, on the toxic forum, on this site. I think TV has been massively destructive upon our society and most people dont even realize it.

Not just TV, but newspapers, magazines, the internet, and social media. They all confuse information with entertainment and are mostly financed by folks trying to manipulate behavior.

donn · Sep 22, 2018

rumme said:
But there are certain ideologies largely driven by either side. So this proves there are right/leftist protocols/ agendas. Good example would be SCOTUS and the liberal republican agendas concerning things like guns rights/abortion rights . So its not all show . Reps will generally vote for gun rights, libs will generally vote for abortion rights. I think this proves its not ALL malarkey

On the contrary, it's a shining example of malarkey. Those are meat and potatoes issues for politicians who would be shocked and appalled if they were ever resolved, because their careers depend on keeping the population inflamed over them. While they conduct their real business, usually involving selling the country's economy and resources out to large corporations. The "right vs. left" issues are a circus show, for the masses who are too stupid to see that they're being played.

rumme · Sep 22, 2018

rumme said:
Its nice to see the subject of TV come up in this thread. I just started a thread about that subject, a few days ago, on the toxic forum, on this site. I think TV has been massively destructive upon our society and most people dont even realize it.

I despise tv so much, that my wife decided to get a earpiece, she keeps in her ear, so she can hear the tv when its on, and I dont have to hear the lying rhetoric that comes out of the tv talking heads. Its kinda interesting, because every now and then, I will look up and watch whats on the tv screen, without hearing the words coming out of their mouths, and I just watch the physical actions of the people on the tv/ media, and it makes it easier to see that these people are merely paid actors/actresses/ liars . The physical antics { absent of the words they say} helps expose them for the actors they are. Judge Jeannie / Sean Hannity on fox news or Rachael Maddow on CNN ARE OFTEN the best examples of this acting . Their facial expressions, their hand movements...OH...and their new book they wrote, which they advertise for sale. IMHO, media should never be used to sell the books these talking head liars write.

rumme · Sep 22, 2018

donn said:
rumme said:

But there are certain ideologies largely driven by either side. So this proves there are right/leftist protocols/ agendas. Good example would be SCOTUS and the liberal republican agendas concerning things like guns rights/abortion rights . So its not all show . Reps will generally vote for gun rights, libs will generally vote for abortion rights. I think this proves its not ALL malarkey

Click to expand...

On the contrary, it's a shining example of malarkey. Those are meat and potatoes issues for politicians who would be shocked and appalled if they were ever resolved, because their careers depend on keeping the population inflamed over them. While they conduct their real business, usually involving selling the country's economy and resources out to large corporations. The "right vs. left" issues are a circus show, for the masses who are too stupid to see that they're being played.

Maybe thats why I was a Ron Paul fan ?

MadRhino · Sep 22, 2018

The center is compromises. À government should try to be fair to all the people. Some socialist measures are necessary to keep the society from being a jungle, but freedom should keep being the goal of a democratic society.

No extremes, left or right, can help a country to be a better place to live. There has to be a compromise between individual rights and collective equity.

donn · Sep 22, 2018

MadRhino said:
No extremes, left or right, can help a country to be a better place to live. There has to be a compromise between individual rights and collective equity.

Right, for that matter no general ideological principle - whether extreme or moderate - that's supposed to be used to dictate those compromises.

Maybe it's harder to get away from that stuff here in the US - founded in part by religious extremists whose faith is a historical curiosity, but whose puritanical moralism is still with us.

Chalo · Sep 23, 2018

The wronger they get, the more important it is for the rest of us to stand up against wrong. There's no function for centrism there. The third way is also wrong.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/national/these-six---yes-six---siblings-of/article_2de6a6a4-971e-57fa-9d0e-50f39f1c08cb.amp.html

LockH · Sep 23, 2018

Hehe... "Getting in a trade war over other structural economic issues is adding more problems to the problems you already had, without fixing any of them." Help is on the way! Folks on the Sphere worried about bikes... while recent reports suggesting that thousands of jobs in the US automotive industry will be... damaged... wait'll Mister President hears about "Detroit" being hurt. :wink:

rumme · Sep 23, 2018

Chalo said:
The wronger they get, the more important it is for the rest of us to stand up against wrong. There's no function for centrism there. The third way is also wrong.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/national/these-six---yes-six---siblings-of/article_2de6a6a4-971e-57fa-9d0e-50f39f1c08cb.amp.html

Nothing could be more wrong, then the braindead people in your liberal party. Maxine Waters, Pelosi , Schumer , Feinstein etc. The fact that you side with these liberal braindead assholes, that will proudly take away our freedoms and constitutional rights, speaks volumes about your lack of logic and reason in politics and individual freedoms. YOU ARE THE F-U%-KING ENEMY IN SOCIETY.

I still think you need to move to a state like California, where liberal policies like OUTLAWING PLASTIC STRAWS , but making it legal to spread aids to other people, are part of the agendas.

FWIW, Trump didn't win because he was such a great choice, he won because the liberals idiots on your side of the camp, were such a awful choice. I usually despise the republican party, because I considered them to be the war party but recently the democratic party has turned into such a evil, disgusting and illogical party, that I cant support them either.

rumme · Sep 23, 2018

Chalo said:
The wronger they get, the more important it is for the rest of us to stand up against wrong. There's no function for centrism there. The third way is also wrong.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/national/these-six---yes-six---siblings-of/article_2de6a6a4-971e-57fa-9d0e-50f39f1c08cb.amp.html

I tell ya what, since you want to force your agendas upon others { for the good of society, as you claim} , how about if some of us want to force a agenda on you, for YOUR OWN GOOD. We would pass a law that anyone that is obese/overweight { like you} cant eat any food, until they come down to the proper weight . This would be good for our society and you, because it would end obesity , along with ending many of the health problems associated with obesity, and lowering health costs . Then we have the added benefits, of you not over eating, which frees up more food for people who are starving in the world.

wturber · Sep 23, 2018

Chalo said:
The wronger they get, the more important it is for the rest of us to stand up against wrong. There's no function for centrism there. The third way is also wrong.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/national/these-six---yes-six---siblings-of/article_2de6a6a4-971e-57fa-9d0e-50f39f1c08cb.amp.html

I think you just submarined you stance by admitting degrees of wrong. And that's the problem. Most issues are not super narrow. They are usually a mix of things. So "right" and "wrong" are seldom so clear cut. A case in point would be the recent change to Arizona ebike law. Some components were good. Some were ill thought out. And some were downright bad IMO. So if the bill were on the ballot for me to vote on, it would be a tough decision - and that's assuming I could even put aside my built-in tendency to lean toward what is in my own self interest as opposed to what I think is philosophically right and wrong. No matter what I do, I'll be siding a bit with the right an a bit with the wrong. That's true even if I were to abstain since the existing law was so flawed. Life, the world, and situations just aren't as simple and binary as you seem to describe them.

rumme · Sep 23, 2018

wturber said:
Chalo said:

The wronger they get, the more important it is for the rest of us to stand up against wrong. There's no function for centrism there. The third way is also wrong.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/national/these-six---yes-six---siblings-of/article_2de6a6a4-971e-57fa-9d0e-50f39f1c08cb.amp.html

Click to expand...

I think you just submarined you stance by admitting degrees of wrong. And that's the problem. Most issues are not super narrow. They are usually a mix of things. So "right" and "wrong" are seldom so clear cut. A case in point would be the recent change to Arizona ebike law. Some components were good. Some were ill thought out. And some were downright bad IMO. So if the bill were on the ballot for me to vote on, it would be a tough decision - and that's assuming I could even put aside my built-in tendency to lean toward what is in my own self interest as opposed to what I think is philosophically right and wrong. No matter what I do, I'll be siding a bit with the right an a bit with the wrong. That's true even if I were to abstain since the existing law was so flawed. Life, the world, and situations just aren't as simple and binary as you seem to describe them.

My good friend , chalo, wants FORCE to be used to support the things HE FEELS, makes the world a better place . He doesnt want people to have cars, because of global warming, he doesnt want people to own firearms, because bad people use them to hurt/kill others, he wants people to be punished/ fined or imprisoned, if they express feelings that HE consider to be racist, prejudice, or discriminatory.

But in all the years Ive been reading his socialist bullshiit on this forum, I cant recall him talking about his obesity/ overeating, and how we need laws to stop that, because it causes more health problems, cause healthcare prices to rise, and it reduces the amount of food, starving people have access to.

What does this prove ? It proves that chalos form of socialism, is strictly written and enforced, to support his biased views, bad habits , political agendas , and his hatred of others who have opposing views. Chalos vision of the world/ America, is one you had ALL better fear.

Chalo · Sep 23, 2018

wturber said:
Life, the world, and situations just aren't as simple and binary as you seem to describe them.

That's true, and many issues defy categorization into any political philosophy, despite requiring a political resolution. But there is an ethical element to many parts of public life, and this is where the right, and our current national leadership, fail. Rewarding the rich while beleaguering the poor, marginalizing and penalizing nonwhites and minorities, promoting an official religion in the name of religious freedom, advocating armed conflict and violence instead of addressing the root causes of crime, suppressing groups of voters-- these are the politics of the right, and they don't pass any ethical analysis. Ethical people can differ on many issues, but when given a choice when the ethics are clear, the right seem to go for the unethical position by reflex.

One of the side effects of having an habitually unethical political pole is illustrated by the presidential administration we have, which isn't even coherently rightist by philosophy, but unerringly to unethical principles and behavior.

rumme · Sep 23, 2018

Chalo said:
wturber said:

Life, the world, and situations just aren't as simple and binary as you seem to describe them.

Click to expand...

That's true, and many issues defy categorization into any political philosophy, despite requiring a political resolution. But there is an ethical element to many parts of public life, and this is where the right, and our current national leadership, fail. Rewarding the rich while beleaguering the poor, marginalizing and penalizing nonwhites and minorities, promoting an official religion in the name of religious freedom, advocating armed conflict and violence instead of addressing the root causes of crime, suppressing groups of voters-- these are the politics of the right, and they don't pass any ethical analysis. Ethical people can differ on many issues, but when given a choice when the ethics are clear, the right seem to go for the unethical position by reflex.

One of the side effects of having an habitually unethical political pole is illustrated by the presidential administration we have, which isn't even coherently rightist by philosophy, but unerringly to unethical principles and behavior.

I dont recall you talking about the unethical behaviors of Hillary, Obama …..or when Bill Clinton was committing adultery in the white house.

You do realize, that most of us on this forum, see right thru your 1 sided , un-objective socialist/liberal bullshit >

If Hillary had won, and the stock markets were hitting all time highs, like they are now, you would be praising Hillary for it.. But because its Trump , you cannot say a positive thing about it. Yes, you and your liberal socialist pals, have mental issues...just like the diehard rightwingers, like Hannity who only compliment republicans and always look to demonize democrats .

Chalo · Sep 23, 2018

I didn't vote for Hillary, because she's already demonstrated herself not to be allied with the American people.

There are unethical and criminal players all over the political world, across the spectrum. But there's a difference between being a crook, and being part of a political movement guided by principles that are unethical.

rumme · Sep 23, 2018

Chalo said:
I didn't vote for Hillary, because she's already demonstrated herself not to be allied with the American people.

There are unethical and criminal players all over the political world, across the spectrum. But there's a difference between being a crook, and being part of a political movement guided by principles that are unethical.

Your version of what is ethical, will not agree with 7 billion other people on earth. Was it ethical when Obama told all of us : " YOU CAN KEEP THE HEALTH INSURANCE YOU WANT " ? But that was a bold faced lie ?

Is it ethical that Obama supported transgender bathrooms , which allowed men to be in the same bathroom as little girls ?

Was it ethical, when Hillary sat in front of a tv, and smiled and laughed, as they hunted down Kaddafi and killed him ?

You see how easily I expose your baloney ?

Chalo · Sep 23, 2018

I don't think you understand ethics. Maybe you should look it up.

Hillary Clinton isn't an ethical person. But her party is not by definition and declaration committed to unethical principles, the way Repuglicans are.

rumme · Sep 23, 2018

Chalo said:
I don't think you understand ethics. Maybe you should look it up.

Hillary Clinton isn't an ethical person. But her party is not by definition and declaration committed to unethical principles, the way Repuglicans are.

You live in a delusional fantasy world dude. Serious. Listen closely, millions of people in America, do not support YOUR ideas, where you want FORCE to be used against those, who do not embrace your one sided socialist agendas. Im tellin ya now partner, you are messing with a 10 foot rattlesnake and you better PRAY your liberal asshole pals dont accomplish their insane mission In America. Up to this point, most of the hatred and violence we have seen take place at events, meetings , has been driven by your leftist pals. It isn't gonna take much for that to switch to the other side, and you aint gonna be happy with the results. YOUVE BEEN WARNED PARTNER.

Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

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