Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki - now 88 entries

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marcexec   1 kW

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Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki - now 88 entries

Post by marcexec » Jun 04 2015 10:06am

This is a "companion" thread for the discussion of the wiki page http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Selection.

To my knowledge, there is no good overview of electric motors on the web. DIY Electric Car has very outdated ones (e.g. http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/sh ... php?t=2198) and I think we can do much better here.

I am thinking of a sortable overview list with links to the detailed motor "factsheet"/specs.
See Click to get an impression.

currently:

|-
| Manufacturer || [[Model]] || [[wiki link]] (technology) || [[Outrunner/inrunner/hub]] || L¹[mm] || W / ⌀² [mm] || H [mm] || Weight [kg] || RWinding [mΩ] || Kv || Cont. Power³ [kW] || Peak Power [kW] || Power/Weight* [kW/kg]
|-



Suggestions on the Motor Details (pages) will be collected here:
specs as above +
  • - Inductance
  • - max. rpm
  • - rated/peak power
  • - No-load current
  • - shaft diameter
  • - flanges or mounting pattern/bolt size
  • - connectors
  • - controller recommendation
  • - builds that use the motor
Edit: I threw a template together for this that has a visual representation, feel free to discuss, PM or just edit it :)
Last edited by marcexec on Sep 08 2017 7:34am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by r3volved » Jun 04 2015 10:56am

Motor details should have a spechseet pdf either uploaded or linked

It would be cool to have a 'build list' column with a linked list of relevant build threads to see how others are using, liking, maintaining and modifying. Is this editable by anyone? could anyone add themselves to a build list? ...it'd be impossible for a single mod to maintain that.

i'd also think kV would be a worthwhile heading to sort by

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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by marcexec » Jun 05 2015 4:35am

r3volved wrote:Motor details should have a spechseet pdf either uploaded or linked

It would be cool to have a 'build list' column with a linked list of relevant build threads to see how others are using, liking, maintaining and modifying. Is this editable by anyone? could anyone add themselves to a build list? ...it'd be impossible for a single mod to maintain that.

i'd also think kV would be a worthwhile heading to sort by
added Kv & rpm columns & backlinked to here

you can edit in the ES Wiki after logging in with your user name and add yours or others as you like
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by marcexec » Jun 10 2015 6:09am

Ok, completed http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/C80100 as an example.

Comments and suggestions welcome (i.e. include 8085 in that as well?)
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by crossbreak » Jun 12 2015 8:58pm

this is what miles actually started here: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 30&t=65757

terminal resistance, Kv, 2 no load currents @ 2 diffrerent rpm, inductance, mechanical dimensions and weight are a complete set. Pictures are also welcome.

sadly there are only very little yet. We should think about a standardized way to measure these values. An ES-Motor-Analyzer would be awesome! And cheap working standards for calibration

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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by amberwolf » Jun 19 2015 3:38pm

marcexec wrote:Ok, completed http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/C80100 as an example.

Comments and suggestions welcome (i.e. include 8085 in that as well?)
Thank you for your work on the wiki!

Any motor you find data for (even if incomplete) would be good to add to that table. I don't know which threads have it, but you mgiht check with ebikes.ca / grin tech to see if you can borrow the data used on the simulator, if it would help fill the table out.

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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by marcexec » Jun 22 2015 9:02am

crossbreak wrote:this is what miles actually started here: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 30&t=65757

terminal resistance, Kv, 2 no load currents @ 2 diffrerent rpm, inductance, mechanical dimensions and weight are a complete set. Pictures are also welcome.

sadly there are only very little yet. We should think about a standardized way to measure these values. An ES-Motor-Analyzer would be awesome! And cheap working standards for calibration
All true, especially about the measurements. I'm trying to establish a framework here first, though, to avoid re-doing everything.

amberwolf wrote:
marcexec wrote:Ok, completed http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/C80100 as an example.

Comments and suggestions welcome (i.e. include 8085 in that as well?)
Thank you for your work on the wiki!

Any motor you find data for (even if incomplete) would be good to add to that table. I don't know which threads have it, but you mgiht check with ebikes.ca / grin tech to see if you can borrow the data used on the simulator, if it would help fill the table out.
That's high praise coming from you! As above I'm holding off on filling (collecting them like Pokemon :pancake: ) and have discussed details with Justin in a couple of emails. The current iteration leaves subjective ratings like max. rpm and rated power to the detailed sheet (i.e. step 2):
Manufacturer ↓ Model ↓ Technology ↓ Layout ↓ Length¹[mm] ↓ Width / ⌀ [mm] ↓ Height² [mm] ↓ Weight [g] ↓ Winding Resistance[Ω] ↓ Kv ↓

What do you think? Add inductance to the overview? Thumbnail maybe?
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by marcexec » Jun 29 2015 5:35am

Justin's motor specs are quite detailed, have a look at http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/m ... 004rc.html#.
By nature, this is obviously a little ebike-centric, but a very good starting point.

More general with some other measurements:
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev-pa ... 4-96v.html
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by FluxZoom » May 02 2016 12:47am

I love this list stuff.

I am thinking that maybe sometime in this coming week I am going to start trying to add to this list on the various motors I've come across. As I mentioned in a PM I'd love to see some ratios such as power to cost ratio and power to weight ratio. I'd consider adding these lines but I am a little worried I'll end up destroying the chart. It'd be killer if there was a sort of copy and paste line in the original post that could be used for the default syntax or entry point for adding new motors.

To illustrate what I mean by power to weight ratio, I am sure it's really simple and clear, but it's just the 'Cont. Power' line divided by the 'Weight' line.

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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by marcexec » May 03 2016 7:48am

FluxZoom wrote:I love this list stuff.

I am thinking that maybe sometime in this coming week I am going to start trying to add to this list on the various motors I've come across. As I mentioned in a PM I'd love to see some ratios such as power to cost ratio and power to weight ratio. I'd consider adding these lines but I am a little worried I'll end up destroying the chart. It'd be killer if there was a sort of copy and paste line in the original post that could be used for the default syntax or entry point for adding new motors.

To illustrate what I mean by power to weight ratio, I am sure it's really simple and clear, but it's just the 'Cont. Power' line divided by the 'Weight' line.
That can be done "intelligently", but would make the table effectively uneditable. I just added the column manually - the Astros are looking quite nice now :)
Regarding the "default syntax", the current template would be:
|-
| Various || [[C80100]] || [[Wikipedia:Brushless_DC_electric_motor|BLDC]] || [[Wikipedia:Outrunner|Outrunner]] || 100 || 80 || - || 1.82 || 32 || 130-180 || ''2'' || 7|| 1.10
|-

for any new line. Sorting can be done in a click (the whole point of this exercise), so new lines can basically be added anywhere - but please add the at them bottom anyway. :pancake:
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
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Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by FluxZoom » May 03 2016 10:18am

marcexec wrote:That can be done "intelligently", but would make the table effectively uneditable.
Thanks so much for the reply and sharing. Super awesome to see kW/kg.

Are you saying that adding a column for continuous power/$ would make the table uneditable? If so, why?

So the syntax I am working with is:

|-
| Manufacturer || [[Model]] || [[wiki link]] | (technology) | [[Outrunner/inrunner/hub]] || L¹[mm] || W / ⌀² [mm] || H [mm] || Weight [kg] || RWinding [mΩ] || Kv || Cont. Power³ [kW] || Peak Power [kW] || Power/Weight* [kW/kg]
|-

The idea is to copy this into something of a word document, edit the columns accordingly and then edit the wiki by copying and pasting the edited wiki line into the wiki. This is probably really silly to spell out and make it so simple as you seem to have a firm grasp on this, but I am lagging behind and suspect that most wouldn't or couldn't edit the wiki and add a column like you have without there being a clear and concise explanation on what to edit and where to place it and so on.

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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by marcexec » May 04 2016 7:37am

FluxZoom wrote:
marcexec wrote:That can be done "intelligently", but would make the table effectively uneditable.
Thanks so much for the reply and sharing. Super awesome to see kW/kg.

Are you saying that adding a column for continuous power/$ would make the table uneditable? If so, why?
Sorry, what I meant was the dynamic calculation, basically creating a spreadsheet-like experience would make the table uneditable.
Adding something like $/kW cont. would be easy enough, but getting the data for the price might turn out to be difficult and potentially contentious. List price? US$ or CAD/AUS/HK$, GBP, EUR, SFR, maybe even ¥ as most motors are produced there? With or without shipping? Cheapest or average vendor? Keeping it up to date and relevant won't be easy. Also opens up the page for abuse/spam.

I'm happy to add it, but maybe an alternative is preferable: let's just collect links to the shops on the specsheet (e.g. "Sources"), so people can check for themselves and see what actual price they'd pay.

A case could be made for single-source motors (like currently Alien, Re-Volt) as there is only one price. I'd like to hear opinions.
FluxZoom wrote: So the syntax I am working with is:

|-
| Manufacturer || [[Model]] || [[wiki link]] (technology) || [[Outrunner/inrunner/hub]] || L¹[mm] || W / ⌀² [mm] || H [mm] || Weight [kg] || RWinding [mΩ] || Kv || Cont. Power³ [kW] || Peak Power [kW] || Power/Weight* [kW/kg] || US$/kW cont.
|-

The idea is to copy this into something of a word document, edit the columns accordingly and then edit the wiki by copying and pasting the edited wiki line into the wiki. This is probably really silly to spell out and make it so simple as you seem to have a firm grasp on this, but I am lagging behind and suspect that most wouldn't or couldn't edit the wiki and add a column like you have without there being a clear and concise explanation on what to edit and where to place it and so on.
fixed and extended the template for additional lines
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by FluxZoom » May 07 2016 12:12am

marcexec wrote:Adding something like $/kW cont. would be easy enough, but getting the data for the price might turn out to be difficult and potentially contentious. List price? US$ or CAD/AUS/HK$, GBP, EUR, SFR, maybe even ¥ as most motors are produced there? With or without shipping? Cheapest or average vendor? Keeping it up to date and relevant won't be easy. Also opens up the page for abuse/spam.
Yeah I considered this sort of idea but I could go either way personally. The list of sources might also be wise, but I imagine just having a list of motors without any sort of pricing incorporated would give most people at least the keywords needed to figure where to find these motors. I like the idea of vendor lists too.

I hope others chime in on this sort of idea.
marcexec wrote:fixed and extended the template for additional lines
Awesome.

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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by marcexec » Jun 01 2016 6:39am

Threw up a v1 of the template for the detailed specsheet.
This is an evolution of the C80100 one, which I thought was a good start.
Have a look, feedback welcome (or just improve it): https://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/ ... t_Template
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by marcexec » Jun 01 2016 10:38am

Nearly through with Motenergy BLDC motors, already 19 in total on the list :mrgreen:
Fun fact: https://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/ ... _Selection - size is now spot on 10x as much as the original page

Edit: another lunchtime later make that 23 (lots of synergy and lack of details...).
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My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by marcexec » Jun 17 2016 7:58am

Ok, we're up to 35 already. Attaching the template I'm using in case someone wants to help... :pancake:
Attachments
motors.odt
Template to copy & paste from
(4.78 KiB) Downloaded 119 times
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by marcexec » Jan 24 2017 9:33am

marcexec wrote:Ok, we're up to 35 already. Attaching the template I'm using in case someone wants to help... :pancake:
Happy new year folks.
With the addition of the Agni 95-R we have now 50 motors in the list! Any favourites of yours missing, just drop me a PM.
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki

Post by marcexec » Mar 03 2017 10:45am

76 now, thanks to the folks from the ES FB group

Any requests? Does anyone have the (metric) details for e.g. the typical car conversion motors (ADC, Netgain, HPEV etc.)?
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki - now 88 ent

Post by marcexec » Sep 08 2017 7:35am

88 motors now. Suggestions to go to 100?
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki - now 88 entries

Post by amberwolf » Sep 06 2018 5:33pm

Since the wiki page for this is inaccessible for the foreseeable future, do you have any other versions of the motor data list, table or not, that you can attach to a post?

I'm asking mostly because I'm looking for specific data on a few motors I have so I can test them with the SFOC5 controller by Incememed, and need kV, winding resistance, and winding inductance, for each one. (Crystalyte HSR3548, MXUS 4503 and 4504, 9C 2807, 2806, & 2810, Ezee v1, Amped DD rear hub (probably a 9C 2807 clone?)). I've found bits of data here and there around ES and the web, but some of it conflicts and some of it is wrong (doesn't match results seen here when using the data), though some of it appears correct.

Dunno if any of those are in the list, but if they are, and even some fo the data I need is in there, I'd love to get it.

I'm sure others could use it, too.

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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki - now 88 entries

Post by marcexec » Sep 06 2018 5:58pm

Sorry mate, edited live in the Wiki. There was very little detail on bicycle hub motors as well, they are often not well documented.
Edit: Archive.org to the rescue!
https://web.archive.org/web/20180204034 ... _Selection
Edit2: looked for other motor DBs, love the tech behind http://www.rcdetails.info/en, but it's sadly out of date...
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
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Re: Motor selection: sortable table in the Wiki - now 88 entries

Post by amberwolf » Sep 06 2018 6:29pm

Thanks for that archive.org link; I'd searched for an archive of the wiki but msut've done something wrong cuz it didn't find anything, a little while bakc when I'd tried.

It has one of the models I'm after, with part of the important numbers:
Crystalite H3548 84mohm 13kV
This is close to what I am finding by experimentation with the SFOC5's parameters to work, at least better than other numbers I've found so far, or extrapolated from data found for other models of the series.

Now I wish I could find a reliable number for the inductance. ;)

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Re: Motor selection: how to find Crystalyte hub motor information with little labeling?

Post by 7tronics » Sep 25 2018 6:56pm

We have a Crystalyte hub that a local experimenter installed into a school prototype vehicle at least 8 years ago. Now we have inherited the hub motor, CA v2.1 and a Lyen 124110 PWM controller. In order to setup a demo of PWM motors on a stand for LEVA Technician class in mid October, we are seeking some specs for the Crystalyte hub motor but there is no label on the hub other than the stamped "Crystalyte" on each side of the hub.

We have searched all over the hub and Crystalyte site and this motor looks like a Crystalyte H motor but I can't find any external markings except "Crystalyte". Dimensions are a bit larger than an H4080: 255mm dia and weighs closer to 10kg, not 8kg.

Thanks for any hints on where I might find a helpful label or external way to determine specs. The Lyen 124110 PWM controller which accommodates 36-60v which seems in range for all Crystalyte 3 phase motors of this size. So I expect that we would be safe to dial up from 24v on a 36v/10A power supply substituting for the battery. A foot control has been modified to act as the throttle control.

Thanks for any hints/tips given so little information on the motor, Mark
PS - we do have info on the Lyen controller from here in endless-sphere viewtopic.php?t=17683 and a quick note to edward@lyen.com
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Re: Motor selection: how to find Crystalyte hub motor information with little labeling?

Post by amberwolf » Sep 25 2018 10:28pm

7tronics wrote:
Sep 25 2018 6:56pm
we are seeking some specs for the Crystalyte hub motor but there is no label on the hub other than the stamped "Crystalyte" on each side of the hub.
That's pretty much the only thing you'll find on any Crystalyte (Xlyte) motor's outside. Occasionally there will be a paper label between the spoke flanges with a model number, but that isn't always glued on very well, so it probably isn't there anymore.



Thanks for any hints on where I might find a helpful label or external way to determine specs.
If you open it up, it'll often have the winding version in marker on the stator supports. LIke 8x6, or 12x4, etc., meaning 8 strands by 6 turns on each tooth, or 12 strands by 4 turns, etc.

You can find kV by spinning it up and measuring RPM at a known voltage, then dividing by the volts. (rpm per volt). kT should be the inverse of that, IIRC (there's a few threads that discuss that sort of thing if you poke around).

There may be more info over on http://ebikes.ca/simulator if you can figure out which motor / winding it is.

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Re: Motor selection: how to find Crystalyte hub motor information with little labeling?

Post by markz » Sep 29 2018 12:05pm

7tronics wrote:
Sep 25 2018 6:56pm
looks like a Crystalyte H motor but I can't find any external markings except "Crystalyte". Dimensions are a bit larger than an H4080: 255mm dia and weighs closer to 10kg, not 8kg.
All you can do is measure the physical dimensions of the motor.
Like the total width of all the laminations.
The number of laminations.
The width of one lamination.
That will narrow in on what your motor is because the motors have the width of the lam's in the model... usually.

The Crystalyte H and the S models are not different models, they are just different windings. I believe the S stands for Speed so it has a high KV which gives it a low turn count. While if I am not mistaken the H is High Torque, which is low KV/high turn count.

http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/hub-motors.h ... 35618b47db
400 series (like the 408)
Crystalyte Hub Motors in Depth
Crystalyte Motors
SAW
NM
(TC) The Crown - TC 30 and TC40
G25xx
H24xx
H35xx
H40xx
400 series
53xx
54xx

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