new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

I'm trying to wire the cyclone 3000 motor to a new controller (phase runner) but I'm having issues wiring the hall sensors.
Can anyone confirm these color codes are correct;

Red: +5V
Black: GND
Blue: hall sensor 1
Yellow: hall sensor 2
Green: hall sensor 3

I've tried all (6) combo's with the blue/yellow/green wires but every single combination gives an error.
I have a feeling red and black are not 5v+ and GND. Can anyone confirm this is the case?
 
Glennn said:
I have a feeling red and black are not 5v+ and GND. Can anyone confirm this is the case?

Red and black are +5V and GND on every brushless motor and controller I've ever worked with. They definitely are on all the Cyclones I've set up.

Try swapping a pair of phase wires and then going through the Hall sensors again. Yes, it's annoying. I just went through the whole song and dance recently to reconcile a BMC motor with a Unite controller. Keep at it.

Note that the Cyclone motor has a fault mode where it runs too fast and noisily and draws an inordinate amount of power at no load. Once, one of our pedicab riders in the field ran it in this configuration and burned up the motor almost immediately.

Having a multimeter to check continuity and voltage (+5V, battery resting voltage, voltage under load, and Hall sensor return voltage) is very useful for what you're doing).
 
Hello,

I was taking apart my Cyclone half twist throttle (going to redesign it), and one of the twist throttle sensor pins came apart. I can only read the 2nd line of text on it as "5030". Has anybody taken their apart, or mind posting a close up of the IC so I can order a new one?

Edit: I was able to read the serial number. Although I couldn't find an exact match, I found that it's a hall effect sensor, and this one was from the same series with similar output characteristics.
https://www.addicore.com/SS49E-Linear-Hall-Sensor-p/ad316.htm

Since I'm using an Arduino to remap and smooth the throttle command, it should be easy to account for any differences. Plus, with GPS, I get to disable the motor if it's outside of my town. Thief protection at it's finest.
Thanks,
Ryan
 
Does anyone know what is up with the shipping costs on http://www.cyclone-tw.com ?

I wanted to price out a kit but when I add it to my cart (PayPal or not), the shipping cost is is 10X the amount of the order!
For example:
 
pwd said:
Does anyone know what is up with the shipping costs on http://www.cyclone-tw.com ?

I wanted to price out a kit but when I add it to my cart (PayPal or not), the shipping cost is is 10X the amount of the order!
For example:
Screenshot_20180926_111544.png

Contact by email, shipping costs are reasonable and if you buy multiple items prices are negotiable too.
 
My cyclone build, thanks everyone for all your help and ideas.

ebike.jpg
 
⬆ wow you squeezed that thing. Can you post more pics how you did it? Curious about the mounts, etc.

Thanks
 
Chalo said:
Having a multimeter to check continuity and voltage (+5V, battery resting voltage, voltage under load, and Hall sensor return voltage) is very useful for what you're doing).

How do you check the signals under load? The best I've done is tape the multimeter to the frame and ride it.
 
ryanf55 said:
Chalo said:
Having a multimeter to check continuity and voltage (+5V, battery resting voltage, voltage under load, and Hall sensor return voltage) is very useful for what you're doing).

How do you check the signals under load? The best I've done is tape the multimeter to the frame and ride it.

You can do that, or get yourself a cheap onboard voltmeter that can double as a state of charge meter.
 
Chalo said:
ryanf55 said:
Chalo said:
Having a multimeter to check continuity and voltage (+5V, battery resting voltage, voltage under load, and Hall sensor return voltage) is very useful for what you're doing).

How do you check the signals under load? The best I've done is tape the multimeter to the frame and ride it.

You can do that, or get yourself a cheap onboard voltmeter that can double as a state of charge meter.

That's easy:)

So I got the replacement throttle hall sensor working. Had to use an Arduino to invert the signal, but it works alright. For whatever reason, the new sensor is very jittery, and makes the throttle jump around a bunch, so I implemented some mediocre filtering. Also, the controller is sending 4.5V out to the sensor, which prohibits a 5V arduino from being used!
 
TOLM said:
⬆ wow you squeezed that thing. Can you post more pics how you did it? Curious about the mounts, etc.

Thanks

Really sorry but I'm flat out with work so don't have time right now. I took loads of pictures and will do a proper build thread soon. The motor mounts attach to the crank same as the stock mount but also attach to the rear suspension mounts. I used longer bolts and spacers so the suspension still works. I designed the brackets using a free program called inkscape and printed the mounts on paper which I glued to cardboard. When happy i made some plywood versions. After much faffing/many iterations I emailed the design to my local laser printers and had them made out of 5mm thick aluminium. Cost was maybe 70 USD. They are as solid as rock and i've had no problems so far. I also designed my battery cases in a similar way, there are 2 and each holds 40 cells and are made out of 3mm thick aluminium.

This bike is absolutely awesome, it has far exceeded my expectations - thanks again everyone for posting such great ideas.
 
MarkLeeds said:
TOLM said:
⬆ wow you squeezed that thing. Can you post more pics how you did it? Curious about the mounts, etc.

Thanks

Really sorry but I'm flat out with work so don't have time right now. I took loads of pictures and will do a proper build thread soon. The motor mounts attach to the crank same as the stock mount but also attach to the rear suspension mounts. I used longer bolts and spacers so the suspension still works. I designed the brackets using a free program called inkscape and printed the mounts on paper which I glued to cardboard. When happy i made some plywood versions. After much faffing/many iterations I emailed the design to my local laser printers and had them made out of 5mm thick aluminium. Cost was maybe 70 USD. They are as solid as rock and i've had no problems so far. I also designed my battery cases in a similar way, there are 2 and each holds 40 cells and are made out of 3mm thick aluminium.

This bike is absolutely awesome, it has far exceeded my expectations - thanks again everyone for posting such great ideas.
Thanks for sharing. Awesome end result.
 
ryanf55 said:
That's easy:)

So I got the replacement throttle hall sensor working. Had to use an Arduino to invert the signal, but it works alright. For whatever reason, the new sensor is very jittery, and makes the throttle jump around a bunch, so I implemented some mediocre filtering. Also, the controller is sending 4.5V out to the sensor, which prohibits a 5V arduino from being used!

In the same boat. Got a new sensor (leg broke off old one) range of signal is even more compressed. "Adjust accelerator curve" setting is good to keep it usable. First and last third is dead. Since the controller does send out 4.5v instead of 5v, thinking of sourcing the 5v from somewhere else. In the documentation it says throttle is from 1v to 4v, very perplexed as the sensor should do (1v to (source voltage-1v)), so (1v to 3.5v), which is not the case.
 
Guys, guys, guys,

Over the last days, I read the entire thread and its 122 pages...

Preparing my first Cyclone project, I gathered 89 contributions over the 122 pages that seemed interesting and reliable.

These contributions can be found here:

A 122 pages summary - all you need to know for your Cyclone buildhttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1imoQzAKRUgR1fEcTFZ3t7LsWhofhDPSt_Ds7T9vQuJs/edit?usp=sharing


I did not got into advanced technicalities (such as modding controlleurs) but I tried to get the essential things to know about this mid drive motor, the "Cyclone for dummies" book.

If you found this link helpful for your $2000 Cyclone project, feel free to tip in my jar: paypal.me/arorobaz
If I get $2 I know I would not have wasted these days of work! :D

Also please tell me if I am missing some key contributions from the thread.

A huge thank you to all the users here for sharing your experience! It makes the beauty of DIY e-biking :wink:

PS : I almost cried when Gman and Dingus made peace after a 100 pages of bloody war. :lol: I got caught up by this tense show.
 
Kachou,

You say, "preparing for my first " ...cyclone build ... 'that seemed interesting and reliable'.

This ebike building is not like Philosophy where we THINK we can determine all that is relevant apriori. I am quite sure if Gman or I had done a summary it would be somewhat different than yours as it would be based upon our engineering like skills and experience with the product.

You are not getting $2 from me ... but thanks for such an attempt at a summary..
 
Making KEYS

The local ACE Hardware has some quite sophisticated key grinding tools and a huge selection of key blanks but they could not make a working key for the throttle-voltage RO and key lock that comes as option with the C-3000 kits.

They did make a key from an ilco YH38 blank that looked like the right blank choice and their blank choosing machine also chose this blank. The cut key would not fit into the Throttles key hole. It was too thick. The ilco key is 0.78" thick and the OEM key is 0.68" thick.

I took the cut thick ilco YH38 key home and ground some thickness off both sides of the key until it fit into the key hole. I did the grinding with a handheld cordless Makita grinder so you do not need a great deal of parallel planeing to get a working key as my first try worked.
 
DingusMcGee said:
Kachou,

You say, "preparing for my first " ...cyclone build ... 'that seemed interesting and reliable'.

This ebike building is not like Philosophy where we THINK we can determine all that is relevant apriori. I am quite sure if Gman or I had done a summary it would be somewhat different than yours as it would be based upon our engineering like skills and experience with the product.

I am kind of excited to get an aggressive answer from Dingus, as it seems to be a baptism for every one around here, or a welcoming hazing! I am therefore officially part of the E-S crowd now ! :mrgreen:

I already built 4 e-bikes from scratch (Q100 CST x 2, BBSHD, BBS02), including the bike parts (not only adding the electrical parts to an existing bike, but building from the frame up), so you can take back your comment about philosophy or apriori relevance.

Now, as I have read all your contributions in this thread, I know you are a man of facts, pragmatism and empirical measures. I therefore invite you to go through my summary and point precisely at what could be improved, for the greater good.

DingusMcGee said:
You are not getting $2 from me ... but thanks for such an attempt at a summary..

Can we settle for $1? :wink:
 
Kachou,

I am not going to work through your format making "corrections". My format would include stated goals like the use of a min-max strategy.

e.g. Simply: properly placed Gear clamps work to stabilized the motor frame in the harshest of conditions -- McGee. Others have built machined pieces to weitgty frames to do the same stabilization -- Robo and others etc and etc......

Important stuff to know: the motor works best at high rpm -- Gman.



I am not giving even $1 as you seem to think having built other bolt on kit models qualifies you -- it does not.
 
A guide with sections similar to the ones you made would make more sense than just forum posts. I have been thinking myself of making such a thing, but I only have the cyclone coaxial motor, so not as useful here.
 
Resolved: which hand to control the rear brake on an Edirtbike?

My two Cyclone 3000 edirtbikes are built from Specialized Big Hit downhill frames and they each have one gear only which is suited to the terrain I ride. The Standard: about 100% of the Mtn Bike retail sales have the rear brake actuated by the right hand.

My brakes handles have semi adjustable ebrake switches but I began to understand how for some maneuvers a left handed brake lever would be better than the standard rear on right because of the need for hands on fine throttle ratcheting (my throttle is on the right) and while doing intermittent rear braking. Braking hard with the front on a downhill turn can cause wheel washout and a dumping.

The bike with Hayes Brakes looked to have the easiest handle swap for the trial of rear brake control with left hand. For it I did choose a difficult trail that would need billy goat walking with careful modulation of the throttle and rear brakes to do smoothly while attempting the condition of no feet touching the trail.

Observation: better riding control with the change to left handed rear bake control was immediately obvious and the change took little time to adjust for such happenings as accidentally over pulling the front brake.
 
Hey everyone, I just wanted to share my experience with Cyclone Ebike Taiwan… Either I got to be the unluckiest of their customers or it means that other similar products costs more for a reason. Anyway as you’ll see below I’ve only had issues in 6 months of owning the bike, and despite Paco being very responsive the product you get is simply not what is advertised and the quality of most elements is so cheap it cannot handle being taken offroad.

So here goes how it all went; In April 2018 I decided to get myself an ebike that could go on trails and in the city, with a discreet look yet a good acceleration without pedalling. Not only it is difficult to find this balance but being on a budget after recently getting a house and a car I wanted to first try this new generation of bikes before investing.

Advertised below 2k before all options this one seemed like a decent one and in this type of configuration / budget there wasn’t much of a choice anyway.
elite1a_1_1_1.jpg

After a few emails and seeing that Cyclone Taiwan and Paco had enough reviews online I decided to wire the money and cross my fingers
Elite bike details.PNG


Advertised “in Stock” and “send in one day” but already
View attachment 10

payment on 3rd, and after a dozen emails…
View attachment 9


Already it took me about 6 weeks to get the bike ( adding customs and so ), but that was only the beggining…

It arrived without any documents or users manual, so I ended up plugging the controller wrong and frying it directly, as I got really mad Paco promptly sent another one for free. Unfortunately the bike DID NOT look like advertised and definitely caught the police’s attention, therefore no way to go through Geneva’s traffic with this bike… controller hanging underneath,wires out and the battery in a cheap bag. Big disapointment.
View attachment 8
Here is what you should expect, even the cheap tires ( not MaXXis brand ) were worn out by poor storage

After 5km using the bike with pedal assist the first electric issue happened, once opening up the motor it seemed clear that the PAS was added afterwards and poorly designed as it would rip off the cables insulant while spinning. On top of it as I mentioned earlier all wires and connectors are of the cheapest quality you can get from Asia
IMG_0501low.jpg

My next issue came from over heating so I decided to open up the mechanical part to add some grease and change the gears from Nylon to metallic ones. They gave more torque for about two hours before that disaster happened…

View attachment 6

Original set // Stick with the nylon gears and extra grease otherwise the gears axles will break

IMG_0593.JPG

View attachment 4

Another lovely experience, I had to send the motor and go through another hassle

I then received a non waterproofed motor / controller as replacement, by this time the cheap battery bag was ripped off and had already left the battery exposed to some damage
IMG_0833.JPG

After building a plywood / fiber glass / waterproof tape box in the frame( that's work ongoing just to give you an idea of how much the "stealth" aspect is gone ) and replacing all chinese cables I thought I could finally enjoy a ride….
IMG_0939.JPG

well count on the strenght of a 4kw motor to instantly destroy your basic gearing system quite regularly if you dont upgrade it to a stronger one.
IMG_0987.JPG

Oooh need to mention as well the cheap cheap rims that would break after driving DOWN a few curbs…. You don’t wanna try “Jumpin from a roof as they avertise this product…”



BTW Paco even sent me a picture of another set of controls from a different bike pretending to be working on mine that only has 9 gears just to add an extra confusion
View attachment 1



And now the engine wont complete a full rotation cycle which means Hall Sensor problem, I got the first one fixed with a temporary cabling…. lasted about 15km before having the exact same hall sensor issue. I tried going through it so it is definitely gone, and I have sent the replacement one to Paco today, hoping the warranty will still work.

Nothing else fits on that frame so I am now watching a nice 4000USD sitting in my living room, no way to ride it, and even though Paco get me somthing once again I own something that can’t be taken to the streets in europe and that is not reliable enough to go trailing…

It goes around 60 , perhaps peaking for short burst around 70 but not 90 kmh, anyway with those brakes / tires / frame it would be suicide and the engine overheats at those speeds.

Overall a very good potential with plenty of fun WHEN it works… but unfortunately I can’t say this product has been a good experience
If you still go for this product pick the one without PAS and ask for waterproof connection by all means.

So far no issue with the battery / frame / suspensions.

I got a few videos in store but I'll upload a decent one once I get the new motor :flame:
 
AlpinaEbiker said:
I got a few videos in store but I'll upload a decent one once I get the new motor :flame:

I don't know why they sell the complete bike. It should be frame set only with motor and controller. This much power with cheap components they put on it will be nothing but problems. Those of us who ordered the bike and have had success with it, only ordered frame set. You need to be very smart choosing components or it will end in disaster. I was lucky to pick up they have metal gears and ordered them.

Some advice:
There is massive space behind seat post, just use zip ties on the metal loops of the controller to mount it, with some soft material to make it quiet from vibration.
You need to change your battery cells on the bottom. If you see rust color or dents, it is a fire hazard. I dropped my battery by accident, took it to local battery builder/repair shop in my country, I provided 5 cells and they fixed it for $30.
The battery case you are making is a good start you need to pad it with material so the battery inside won't move (just like your battery bag bounced in the frame hurting it). Padding should be at least 1cm, compressed.
Advice in packing material: https://www.facebook.com/groups/endless.sphere/permalink/1952790601456665/
The overheating happens from using it on too low gearing. You need to keep your RPM around 300 for the motor on low power, or 500 rpm on high power usage. Just fill in your info here and you will see the motor chainring rpm: http://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadence
I can go all day at 60kph, at 500rpm, but it will cook in 5 minutes at 100rpm, doing the same 60kph speed, just with a different gearing. It is just the nature of the efficiency curve of the electric motor. In short, you should not use anything else than the biggest 2 cogs in your cassette! Only the biggest one off road! If you pedal and activate the motor at the same time, it will cook.
I suggest you disconnect the pas wire until you know what it does exactly. It is an on/off switch, so you will crash if you don't set a speed+power+soft start limit at the same time. The PAS function is useful, but only to use it with a hidden switch to make it road legal to show the cops. The hidden switch should also put it to low speed to comply with the 25kph speed limit. You sadly can't use pas for long journeys for this bike.
You can read more about the bike in this thread, maybe you can learn from some mistakes others did. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=88921

What happened when you wrote disaster happened and opened gears after? Did you strip the gears?

How do you know it causes problems with police? Did they bother you about it?
 
Sounds like a nightmare honestly. So many advantages of building one yourself. Glad in several years no police hastles for me.
 
Unless you're spinning backwards that tensioner is in the wrong place. It should be on the bottom.
 
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