Is Kavanugh guilty of the accusations ?

Now a 3rd person has made accusations against him . Since none of us in society can be 100% sure if the allegations are completely true or are just politically motivated smear campaigns brought about tactically at a specific time for a specific political goal , how can us peons in society be confident that the opinions we have on the subject, are correct ? If someone decides to watch fox news for all their info, they are usually gonna claim he is not guilty and if someone watches CNN, they are gonna usually claim he is guilty. How can we move forward in having a system where our opinions are not based on such faulty bias , largely based upon which tv or media outlets we trust ?

On another note , Cosby has been convicted and sentenced for his crimes . I find it ironic, that only a few decades ago, the TV put Cosby in a regular tv show, that portrayed Cosby as the best all American dad/ husband and person you could ever ask for { Cosby show} . Funny how the TV/media can be used to :

make heroes out of villians
villians out of heroes
lies out of truths
truths out of lies

Who knows if he's guilty. The art of the false accusation as a tool has made any of this unbelievable. England had their Jimmy Saville hoax with ridiculous stories, the government openly set out to falsely convict 9 celebrities and got Rolf Harris ('You'll come A'Waltzin' Matilda,' 'Tie Me Kangaroo Down') even as the media made a practice of PROVING Harris was hundreds of miles away at the time claimed, perhaps shooting one of his TV shows, and of course the beauty of them all where the woman was claiming she was only 15 and she was in fact considerably older. . . .

But this is all a part of the regular game of killing off the old gods. Thor is of the new gods of the Norse, Loki of the old gods. And Marvel comics does a great disservice to the Loki legend, but who cares? He's an OLD god, psssth.

At the time they say things happen, all this proof is required. Decades later, all they require is an accusation.

Dauntless said:

Who knows if he's guilty. The art of the false accusation as a tool has made any of this unbelievable. England had their Jimmy Saville hoax with ridiculous stories, the government openly set out to falsely convict 9 celebrities and got Rolf Harris ('You'll come A'Waltzin' Matilda,' 'Tie Me Kangaroo Down') even as the media made a practice of PROVING Harris was hundreds of miles away at the time claimed, perhaps shooting one of his TV shows, and of course the beauty of them all where the woman was claiming she was only 15 and she was in fact considerably older. . . .

But this is all a part of the regular game of killing off the old gods. Thor is of the new gods of the Norse, Loki of the old gods. And Marvel comics does a great disservice to the Loki legend, but who cares? He's an OLD god, psssth.

At the time they say things happen, all this proof is required. Decades later, all they require is an accusation.

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I think it looks suspicious, when these accusers wait 30-40 years, to bring out these accusations, right before confirmations/elections are to take place. Of course the republicans use the same tactics against democrats.

You guys are a pair of kooks. Because Cosby played a good guy on TV but was later proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law to be a skeevy bastard doesn't mean there's a media plot to tear down old heros. And who the hell sees aTV character played by an actor whos a fallible human being as a hero? Except little kids anyway...

When one sees a bunch of men formerly insulated from their bad behavior brought down by public exposure there's a lot simpler explaination than the so called Tulmud media dragging down old gods (which is a ridiculous concept.. Old gods from time immemorial get torn down because people wise up to priest bullshit over time!). The fact they were pervy abusers passes Occam's razor a lot easier

I'm really starting to believe the simplest explanation of Rummes constant focus on the media is that his account has been hijacked by a bot from a country where they fear exposure of misdeeds by a free press.. which is widely accepted world wide as a bulwark again tyrants, despite it's flaws.

And since none of us peons can know better or trust what we hear, I will now be objective about all claims to the contrary regarding his botness.

Ya know this Russian bot theory is starting to make sense. Please say it more, until it has pushed all other theories out of my limited capacity brain.

On the actual subject, about 80% of sexual assault claims made by women against men are true. When 3 accuse someone, I'd say it's most likely they aren't all lying.

The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle, unfortunately that still means he's probably at least a bit of a rapist.

Voltron said:

I'm really starting to believe the simplest explanation of Rummes constant focus on the media is that his account has been hijacked by a bot from a country where they fear exposure of misdeeds by a free press.. which is widely accepted world wide as a bulwark again tyrants, despite it's flaws.

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Who hijacked yours? One of the most chaotic minds on ES starts spouting paranoid theories. . . .

Well, if I am one of the most chaotic minds on ES ( which is a pretty high bar!), then no one would need to hijack my account to spout conspiracy theories, would they?

But I know double checking logic before blathering takes all the fun out of it...

Voltron said:

I'm really starting to believe the simplest explanation of Rummes constant focus on the media is that his account has been hijacked by a bot from a country where they fear exposure of misdeeds by a free press.. which is widely accepted world wide as a bulwark again tyrants, despite it's flaws.

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When I see Putin this weekend, Ill tell him your theory.

It is amazing, how difficult it is to try and remain objective on these subjects. I usually do not watch much television, but as a personal experiment, I told my wife that for 1/2 of the day , we would watch CNN and then the other half, we watch FOX NEWS. Watching CNN and their slant, makes one want to believe Kavanaugh is guilty of at least some of these accusations, and watching Fox, takes ones thought process steering towards not being guilty and its just a planned political hack job driven by dems.

Yes indeed, the age of mis-information. Where will this nation be in the year 2020 ? On a positive note, it sure seems as though the economy is on fire. I dont go just by the stats on tv , but by the stock markets, interest rates on savings/cd"s going higher and that many of my best friends are business owners and have told me they have so much work, they are having trouble finding people who want to work . Hate him or love him, the Trump economy seems to be impressive.

rumme said:

Is Kavanugh guilty of the charges ?

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No. There are no charges, nor will any be levied against him. The question is - did he do it, and does anyone care? Since 54% of republicans want him confirmed even if he did it, it may not matter too much whether he actually tried to rape Ford - no matter how much supporting evidence there is.

Now a 3rd person has made accusations against him . Since none of us in society can be 100% sure if the allegations are completely true or are just politically motivated smear campaigns brought about tactically at a specific time for a specific political goal , how can us peons in society be confident that the opinions we have on the subject, are correct ?

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You can't. But the more evidence against a person, the more likely they are to have done it.

On another note , Cosby has been convicted and sentenced for his crimes . I find it ironic, that only a few decades ago, the TV put Cosby in a regular tv show, that portrayed Cosby as the best all American dad/ husband and person you could ever ask for { Cosby show} .

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Uh . . . you know that TV shows aren't real, right? Anthony Hopkins really isn't a sociopathic cannibal.

Ill be damn, that may be the problem. I always though the tv shows were factual.

I would bet money, that it was common knowledge within inner circles, that Cosby was involved in this stuff, years before it got exposed to the masses in society. Just like it was common knowledge in Hollywood about Weinstein and his massive sexual perversions, but they were able to keep that quite for many decades also. That was my main point.

And that is a perfectly valid point. Thankfully the free media in the USA raised public awareness of both of those enough that more women trusted coming forward until the walls of industry denial crumbled, and action was eventually taken, albeit at the cost of a lot of women's multi year repressed trauma.

Voltron said:

And that is a perfectly valid point. Thankfully the free media in the USA raised public awareness of both of those enough that more women trusted coming forward until the walls of industry denial crumbled, and action was eventually taken, albeit at the cost of a lot of women's multi year repressed trauma.

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Agreed !

Of course some others in the press prob took kickbacks in either cash or insider scoops to keep it quiet, so no one is saying there aren't flaws in the system...

Voltron said:

Well, if I am one of the most chaotic minds on ES ( which is a pretty high bar!), then no one would need to hijack my account to spout conspiracy theories, would they?

But I know double checking logic before blathering takes all the fun out of it...

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I know you do, I've read your posts. It's kind of like "Bo knows football," eh? You trying to take credit for raising the bar, there?

As for 'Need' in hijacking your account, what about you as the hijacker?

rumme said:

Ill be damn, that may be the problem. I always though the tv shows were factual.

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Now THERE is a conspiracy theory. The media bans together to tell the truth. Just to piss us off.

Nobody in the media would have to know anything even if Cosby WAS guilty. But I'm not convinced, this is just a power grab. Amazing the things people think empower them.

But here the father of one of Kavanugh's accusers is casting doubt on his daughters' veracity. Oh, the irony of calling themselves "Me, too." At least it's honest.

Wow... that was some pretty undecipherable ranting right there. When you think the world media is banding together to convict Cosby just to piss you off, you can convince yourself of just about anything.

As for me being a hijacker boosting this account... why would I hijack it to say the exact kinds of things I've always said? See, what made it a funny joke was Rumme used to have a lot of nice normal ebike posts and then went off on the media rants lately, hence the hijacking joke having some context.
It wouldn't be a funny joke to suggest you were a bot unless there were suddenly a lot of sensible posts about actual electric vehicles you own and use.. people would then see the humor in suggesting you had gotten a brain transplant or something.

It matters not whether Kavanaugh is guilty. This is pure politics. The Republicans stole the Garland seat from Obama, and now the Democrats are trying to steal the seat from the Republicans. Tit for tat, and it doesn't make a damn bit of difference who started it (what the Dems did to the Reps before Garland, and so on as far back as you look). Whether Kavanaugh wins or loses the seat, we all lose. Either way will drive more extremism in both parties.

When things get bad enough, then we just might regain some sanity and allow for moderation to dial back the left/right extremists, but that is many years away.

rumme said:

I would bet money, that it was common knowledge within inner circles, that Cosby was involved in this stuff, years before it got exposed to the masses in society. Just like it was common knowledge in Hollywood about Weinstein and his massive sexual perversions, but they were able to keep that quite for many decades also. That was my main point.

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Probably true. And I'd bet money that Kavanaugh was known for his behavior towards women, binge drinking and exposing himself in his own circles - but it was kept quiet. He's a good kid! His mother's a judge, a great woman, and she doesn't need that kind of headache. No reason to destroy the guy because of a few youthful indiscretions. Everyone gets drunk and does something they regret, right?

Voltron said:

As for me being a hijacker boosting this account... why would I hijack it to say the exact kinds of things I've always said? See, what made it a funny joke was Rumme used to have a lot of nice normal ebike posts and then went off on the media rants lately, hence the hijacking joke having some context.
It wouldn't be a funny joke to suggest you were a bot unless there were suddenly a lot of sensible posts about actual electric vehicles you own and use.. people would then see the humor in suggesting you had gotten a brain transplant or something.

Click to expand...

Its this Russian climate. I cant believe you figured all this out so easily. I was hoping to hide the fact that I am a Russian spy who distrusts American media. Oh well, you were just to intelligent for me.

It's interesting as an analytical exercise that examines attempts at media manipulation.

Kavanaugh is not on trial, so the question becomes...does the majority of the voting public believe Kavanaugh is guilty of sexual harassment when he was back in college? And if yes, will the Republican majority in congress "take the hit" by confirming Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court? (there is nothing to legally stop them from appointing Kavanaugh)

The danger for the Republicans, is that all of this is happening just before the mid-term elections. The house of Representatives and the Senate can both be shifted around by the elections in November to have a Democrat majority, or an even deeper Republican majority, or possibly half and half...which could bring legislation to a halt for the next two years.

The Supreme Court is an appointment for life, and the rules for evicting a Justice from their seat are extremely difficult to meet, so it is truly a lifetime appointment. There have been SC-Justices that were clearly left-leaning, and others who were right-leaning...and both were so very old and questionable as to their mental clarity. And yet they clung to the SCOTUS seat long past when they should have voluntarily retired.

Some have even openly stated that they were waiting for the presidency to trade hands to someone who was more to their political and philosophical outlook (Democrat/Republican, Moderate/Radical), so their replacement would be similar to themselves. It's a gamble, because Reagan/Bush Sr occupied the office for 12 years, and a SCJ dying while on the SCOTUS can hand an opportunity to the current president to completely shift the balance of politics in the Supreme Court.

(*googles) Ginzberg is 85, and Breyer is 80...

The next closest Justice is 70, and the rest are younger and apparently in good health. The stakes are high on both sides of congress.

edit: If any ES members feel this post is Republican-leaning, be aware that...if torpedoing a SCOTUS candidate is possible by making these types of accusations, then this tactic will be used against a future Democrat president. Establishing a precedent about the burden of evidence required is something that has very real consequences for both sides, not only now, but for decades to come.

Spinningmagnets, I agree. This is a fight for SCOTUS and I doubt the politicians really care about these sexual perversions that supposedly happened decades ago. After all, the politicians supposedly have a separate fund that allows them to make private payoffs to people who accuse them of similar forceful sexual actions , to keep those accusers quite.


I fully admit I dont want SCOTUS to become a lopsided liberal entity, due to the liberals consistent agendas of stripping away our constitutional rights. I guess the best situation may be a stalemate in SCOTUS, which allows our constitutional rights, to remain stable for at least a few more decades.

I'll just point out liberals, as in the dictionary definition, not the political label, have consistently expanded constitutional rights... the civil rights movement, womens voting, same sex relationship equality, all revolve around expanding constitutional protections to other Americans besides land owning white males.

lib·er·al
ˈlib(ə)rəl/Submit
adjective
1.
open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
"they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people"
2.
(of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person's general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.