Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 23 2018 10:32pm

cbr009 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 7:28pm
Hi John,

Borrowed a lipo battery from a friend so I could get everything set up.

I seem to only have one throttle setting, which I assume is 50%. I can toggle between throttle on and off ok, but it doesn't seem to change when I do a second 1.5 to 3 sec button push. When I first plugged in the battery, nothing seemed to work, but I think I must have done a 5 second push at some stage, because it then started working. But only one throttle level. Any thoughts?

Drive works really well, and such a light setup. :D

cheers,
Mick
Hi Mick I fully tested the button throttle and I know it will definitely give you 2 speeds. The difference is subtle though. Nothing like what you feel on a BBS02 powered bike. When you first start, count 1001, 1002 then release. That will be 50%. Then start from zero and count 4 seconds. You will feel the difference.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 23 2018 10:34pm

liamcaff wrote:
Sep 04 2018 12:40pm
Has anyone done a comparison of metr.at (https://flipsky.net/products/core51822- ... l_no_match)

and

the Flipsky Bluetooth module systems (https://flipsky.net/products/core51822- ... l_no_match)?
The flipsky one is really meant for programming however you can use it to monitor as well. I have just ordered on to test and see how user friendly it is.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 23 2018 10:46pm

liamcaff wrote:
Sep 22 2018 8:56am
Hey guys,

I was hoping to try out the Arduino code with the button throttle today buy when I went to install Visuino I found out it only works for Windows (No OSX version). Any chance anyone would have the Arduino code to send to me so I can load up my Arduino and test the throttle?

Cheers,

L
I believe you will need the Mitov Visuino libraries to compile the code in Arduino. You may be able to add the Mitov Visuino library manually into your Ardunio file tree. I haven't tried this but if you are stuck, I could DropBox the Arduino sketch and Mitov Visuino library for you to give this a go.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by falcongsr » Sep 23 2018 11:17pm

Hello,

This looks like a great project for my road bike where I could use a little help on my commute. The distance from the center of my bottom bracket to the face of the tire is 116mm (touring bike with longer chainstay). I assume I'd need a longer main plate to reach back to the wheel. Is this something I would fabricate myself or are there longer plates / designs available? (I read through the thread and saw some people asking about this also).

The original design looks optimized for ~80mm spacing, and I can see issues if I tried to rotate the mounting so that the motor reaches the wheel in my case.

Thanks!

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 23 2018 11:46pm

I have an extension plate available for bikes with longer chainstays.

Standard bracket and extended bracket pictured below.
Attachments
Bracket normal and extended.jpg
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Sep 24 2018 5:42pm

Kepler wrote:
Sep 23 2018 10:46pm
liamcaff wrote:
Sep 22 2018 8:56am
Hey guys,

I was hoping to try out the Arduino code with the button throttle today buy when I went to install Visuino I found out it only works for Windows (No OSX version). Any chance anyone would have the Arduino code to send to me so I can load up my Arduino and test the throttle?

Cheers,

L
I believe you will need the Mitov Visuino libraries to compile the code in Arduino. You may be able to add the Mitov Visuino library manually into your Ardunio file tree. I haven't tried this but if you are stuck, I could DropBox the Arduino sketch and Mitov Visuino library for you to give this a go.
That would be great John - I'll send you a mail to try it. I just don't have regular access to a PC so would be handy to be able to just work on a Mac.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Sep 24 2018 6:17pm

What kind of motor is everyone using?

I have one of these: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aer ... motor.html

I've been thinking about getting one of these: https://alienpowersystem.com/shop/brush ... 0kv-1800w/

I'd like the highest torque within reason for a 12S battery.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 24 2018 9:17pm

I am using that Hobbyking motor on my commuter at the moment. It is not the most torquey motor I have tested but it is one of the quite motors I have used especially at high speed.

That Alien motor has a kv of 80. Nice and small but you would need to run it 12S to get above 30 kph.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by rafeh1 » Sep 26 2018 6:55pm

Kepler wrote:
Mar 13 2017 4:20am
Reserved
Friction drive assembly manual Page 11.jpg
Hi Kepler
Did u ever get pas running with vesc
I was thinking pas could go where the skateboard throttle goes
Rafe

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by urga » Sep 29 2018 5:42am

OK, I've got a replacement battery coming from Hobbyking.Which is nice! In the meantime I've been looking at building my own battery pack from 26650 Li ion cells.Has anyone any experience with using these? Also,since I'll struggle to get 12(6S2P) of these into a tool bottle holder,what's more important,total voltage or mAh ? I 'm running a 260Kv motor at the moment,but would be OK with running a smaller dia and lower Kv motor if it suited the battery design better?
'Kepler Friction Drive For Dummies' help page continues......

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Sep 29 2018 5:47pm


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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 29 2018 9:33pm

urga wrote:
Sep 29 2018 5:42am
OK, I've got a replacement battery coming from Hobbyking.Which is nice! In the meantime I've been looking at building my own battery pack from 26650 Li ion cells.Has anyone any experience with using these? Also,since I'll struggle to get 12(6S2P) of these into a tool bottle holder,what's more important,total voltage or mAh ? I 'm running a 260Kv motor at the moment,but would be OK with running a smaller dia and lower Kv motor if it suited the battery design better?
'Kepler Friction Drive For Dummies' help page continues......
I have looked at using 26650 cell but I found I could get more capacity for a given size pack out of 18650 cells. On my commuter, I use a 7S3P pack which fits into a small seat bag. Using 3.5ah cells, thats around 250 Whrs. Good for around 30km with close to full time assist. They do get a bit warm but the pack has done a ton of cycle and is showing no signs of capacity loss.

The pack shown was built with 25R cells for extra punch. Good for 60A but way over the top for a friction drive. :)

20180716_084112.jpg
20180716_084124.jpg


I have a built a bottle battery for my mountain bike set up also. You can see it on this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=96581
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Sep 29 2018 9:42pm

liamcaff wrote:
Sep 29 2018 5:47pm
Any thoughts on these?:
https://diyelectricskateboard.com/colle ... ard-motors

Maybe this one for high torque?:
https://diyelectricskateboard.com/colle ... 6380-170kv
All those motor would work except the 6374 which would be too long i think. The 170 kv motor is an option for more torque but it might be a little slow. I would say it would be good for 35 kph to 40 kph.

I have bought a heap of these motors. Their quality is very good and work really well with the drive.
https://flipsky.net/collections/accesso ... kv-2450w-2

Also got one of these coming to test. These smaller motors can be a little on the noisy side and lack torque. Will be interesting to see how this one shapes up.
https://flipsky.net/collections/accesso ... 70kv-1550w
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Aeron » Oct 04 2018 11:20am

liamcaff wrote:
Sep 24 2018 6:17pm
What kind of motor is everyone using?
I bought this one. I haven't tested it on the drive yet, but it looks decent.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Oct 04 2018 2:46pm

Cool - let me know how you get on with it - great price!
Aeron wrote:
Oct 04 2018 11:20am
liamcaff wrote:
Sep 24 2018 6:17pm
What kind of motor is everyone using?
I bought this one. I haven't tested it on the drive yet, but it looks decent.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Oct 04 2018 3:20pm

Does anyone have any advice on how tight to mount the bracket to the BB? I guess just tighten the BB to the bike spec...

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by KDoc » Oct 09 2018 6:21pm

I have a few Focbox issues. The Focbox will not allow the battery to output more than 1 amp. I have tried two different batteries that output higher amps with other devices. I am using the KEDA 63-64 190KV Brushless Outrunner 10S 2000W with a thumb bike throttle (input next to the power/fault/signal light). I can get the motor to run/spin and the throttle works, but the wattage/amperage is very low (measured via an inline Watts Up meter). The batteries are 18650 li-ion 24 V and 12V.

Another issue I have is I require a 5v input (via the prewired sgnl/5v/gnd Nunchuck input) to get the Focbox to turn on. Attaching the battery alone is not enough. I mention this because it appears that Kepler does not have an on/off switch set up in his Focbox throttle programming video (which I used to program my motor/Focbox via BLDC for Mac). Am I missing a programming step that is limiting my motor to less than 1 amp? Is a separate on/off input required even with a throttle attached? I am clearly a rookie/kook with this gear and any helpful info would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Oct 09 2018 7:09pm

In regards to low amps, I would say it is current limiting because your battery is below the set minimum voltage. So I presume you are running 10S. Your battery cutoff start should be set to 35V and battery cutoff voltage end should be 32V.

It sounds like you are using the BLDC programming tool. Use the new Vesc Tool and follow the setup wizards. The PPM input used by a Nunchuck input has nothing to do turning the vesc on and off. It does however need a correct PPM signal to run the motor presuming you are using PPM input.

But I am confused to what input you are using. If you are using a hall throttle, it needs to be connected to the ADC port and configured and scaled in the ADC App.

If you really get stuck, shoot me a PM and we could setup up a Teamviewer session to sort you out.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by KDoc » Oct 11 2018 4:18pm

Hi Kepler,
Thanks for your quick reply. I am using a 7S5P battery (24v). I also used a 12v battery to determine whether it was the battery or the Focbox that was limiting amperage/current. It appears to be the Focbox settings that are limiting current.

As you suggested I reset the battery cutoff voltage limits in the BLDC tool for Mac to match my 24v battery (cutoff start = 24.5v, cutoff end = 22.4v) and the amperage draw increased to 1.9 amps (still way too low).

I am using a hall throttle, and I have it connected to the ADC port and configured and scaled in the ADC App. The throttle does control the motor, but I cannot get the Focbox to boot until I also supply 5v to the PPM input.

I looked for a mac version of the new VESC TOOL but it does not exist on the VESC website. There is a link to a Github version for mac, but I have had no luck opening the download.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by arthurtuxedo » Oct 25 2018 2:23pm

I have been dreaming up a concept that might be a perfect fit for this Kepler drive. I would like to try building a "boost bike" that rarely needs to be charged. It would not provide any assist at speeds greater than ~5 MPH, but rather its only function is to help with starts and hills. The battery would be small, low voltage and relatively high amperage. The battery would get most of its charge by regen braking and would have a traditional brake only on the front wheel, and if necessary could also be charged continuously by a Shutter Precision dynamo hub. Because the boost is only being used for a small percentage of the time and the battery is being recharged almost continuously, it is my hope that the bike can go weeks or months of riding on flat terrain before the battery needs to be plugged in. For this concept to work, the motor / regen braking must not cause additional drag when not in use, as that would make the un-assisted cruise feel like riding through mud and so a DD hub motor is ruled out.

How difficult would it be to cause the Kepler drive to engage when an e-brake lever is pulled to provide regen braking? Would the motor need to be spun forward to engage before spinning backwards for braking, and would the backwards motion cause it to pull away from the tire? If it's possible to use the drive in this way, how big of a project would be tweaking VESC settings to make it work the way I would like?

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Oct 26 2018 9:55pm

Interesting idea. if you only needed a boost to low speed, you could us a low kv motor, so 60 kv and say a high C rated 4S Lipo battery. The motor would climb the tire under load, then drop off the tire once it reach full speed which would be quite low. The motor could easily be pulled on to the tire with a brake lever setup and a hall sensor on the brake lever could activate the regen. I am running regen on my full suspension mountain bike with really good results. The motor spins in the same direction during regen. The Vesc just applies a braking effect to motor which is variable via a PWM signal. I use sensors on both brake levers with each brake lever giving 50% regen. The regen activates within the dead zone of the braking lever.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Ecyclist » Oct 27 2018 12:11pm

Kepler wrote:
Oct 26 2018 9:55pm
Interesting idea. if you only needed a boost to low speed, you could us a low kv motor, so 60 kv and say a high C rated 4S Lipo battery. The motor would climb the tire under load, then drop off the tire once it reach full speed which would be quite low. The motor could easily be pulled on to the tire with a brake lever setup and a hall sensor on the brake lever could activate the regen. I am running regen on my full suspension mountain bike with really good results. The motor spins in the same direction during regen. The Vesc just applies a braking effect to motor which is variable via a PWM signal. I use sensors on both brake levers with each brake lever giving 50% regen. The regen activates within the dead zone of the braking lever.
Your thinking outside of the box is brilliant. :thumb:
Are you getting 100% regen when applying both brakes at the same time?
Did you use hall or micro switches?
Can you do video how to set it up on VESC?
Thanks a ton
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Oct 28 2018 4:14am

Yes, 100% regen when both brakes are applied.

I used Hall sensors as I wanted it to be completely water proof. I quickly discovered micro switches dont belong on a mountain bike and quickly fail under muddy and rough conditions.

The button throttle and brake sensors are connected to a custom programmed Arduino Pro Mini controller. The Vesc setup is easy. You just use the ppm App and set it up with throttle and brake. You then run the calibration process through the Vesc software and you are good to go. The trickier part is suppling the correct PWM signal from the Arduino to the Vesc. You need to program the Arduino to output the correct pulse width for each of the brake sensors and for the throttle.

The Vesc is looking for signal from around 1.0 ms to 2.0 ms. 1.0 ms will be full brake and 2.0 ms will be 100% throttle. The Arduino needs to be programmed so that each hall sensor voltage output is converted to -0.25 ms. Both brakes together then output -0.5 ms and the throttle button outputs 0.5 ms. The calibration process with the Vesc will set zero brake and zero throttle at 1.5 ms. Full brake will give you 1.0 ms and full throttle will give you 2.0 ms.

Hope that makes sense.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Ecyclist » Oct 28 2018 11:19am

Kepler wrote:
Oct 28 2018 4:14am
Yes, 100% regen when both brakes are applied.

I used Hall sensors as I wanted it to be completely water proof. I quickly discovered micro switches dont belong on a mountain bike and quickly fail under muddy and rough conditions.

The button throttle and brake sensors are connected to a custom programmed Arduino Pro Mini controller. The Vesc setup is easy. You just use the ppm App and set it up with throttle and brake. You then run the calibration process through the Vesc software and you are good to go. The trickier part is suppling the correct PWM signal from the Arduino to the Vesc. You need to program the Arduino to output the correct pulse width for each of the brake sensors and for the throttle.

The Vesc is looking for signal from around 1.0 ms to 2.0 ms. 1.0 ms will be full brake and 2.0 ms will be 100% throttle. The Arduino needs to be programmed so that each hall sensor voltage output is converted to -0.25 ms. Both brakes together then output -0.5 ms and the throttle button outputs 0.5 ms. The calibration process with the Vesc will set zero brake and zero throttle at 1.5 ms. Full brake will give you 1.0 ms and full throttle will give you 2.0 ms.

Hope that makes sense.
That makes perfect sense.
Thank you for your logical explanation.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Trigger3 » Dec 22 2018 11:46am

Hi Kepler ! Do you still sell your wonderful kits ? If so, how can I purchase it ?

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