Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear
- Thread starter Hillhater
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Hillhater
100 TW
But how accurate is our knowledge of the rate of CO2 release and adsorbtion in the Oceans ? or the land and forrests ? ( 10-20 times greater than fossil emissions)..... Those are just extrapolated estimates..+_ 10 % either way on each makes a Massive difference to the " net balance" !billvon said:
Potentially many times more than the entire human CO2 contribution!
Hillhater said:
I did thing again where I google the name of someone you've quoted. Turns out Harrison Schmitt is a well-known AGW-denier/fruitcake in league with that other favourite of yours, ICoCC/The Heartland Institute. Also conspiracy-nutjob Alex Jones.
Some quotes from Wikipedia:
"climate change is a tool for people who are trying to increase the size of government"
"global warming scare is being used as a political tool to increase government control over American lives, incomes and decision-making."
"He appeared in December that year on the Fox Business Network, saying "[t]he CO2 scare is a red herring"
"Schmitt asserted a link between Soviet Communism and the American environmental movement: "I think the whole trend really began with the fall of the Soviet Union. Because the great champion of the opponents of liberty, namely communism, had to find some other place to go and they basically went into the environmental movement."
"Schmitt said that climate change was a stalking horse for National Socialism"
"increasing levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere are not significantly correlated with global warming, attributing the "single-minded demonization of this natural and essential atmospheric gas" to advocates of government control of energy production."
"Contrary to what some would have us believe, increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will benefit the increasing population on the planet by increasing agricultural productivity."
It's impressive how many clichéd debunked climate myths one man can hold. And of course, being a politician means he's much more truthworthy than those forked-tongued scientists!
"I hope the science writers in this room will start to dig deeply into whether or not science has been corrupted by the source of funds that are now driving what people are doing in research, and what their conclusions are.”
Says the man speaking at a Heartlands-sponsored event...
Hillhater said:
It doesn't matter how much natural emissions are, nor their relation in magnitude to human ones. The natural carbon cycle exists in a delicate balance established over geological time. Human emissions, however small, are external to that largely self-regulating system. It's hubristic to think that in a finely balanced system, we could dump BILLIONS OF TONS of CO2 EVERY YEAR for over a century into the atmosphere and presume it won't have any affect at all on anything.
Hillhater
100 TW
There are only 4 astronauts left who walked on the moon.
3 of them Have publicly spoken out against the AGW theory.
They were all highly trained , highly educated , logical thinking, rational, specialists.....The "best of the best".
Schmitt has a Phd in Geogology...... And you choose to lable him a "Fruitcake" !
I think, even in his '80s, he might be a bit smarter than you !
3 of them Have publicly spoken out against the AGW theory.
They were all highly trained , highly educated , logical thinking, rational, specialists.....The "best of the best".
Schmitt has a Phd in Geogology...... And you choose to lable him a "Fruitcake" !
I think, even in his '80s, he might be a bit smarter than you !
Hillhater
100 TW
How do you KNOW. Its "in balance" ?Punx0r said:
What part of ESTIMATED dont you understand ?
...because if it wasn't balanced it would be chaotic, which is not amenable to life... Also we know the past composition of the atmosphere and climate conditions, which shows *drum roll* stability compared to the last 150 years...
What has being a test pilot got to do with climate science? Even geology isn't strongly linked. His knowledge IN HIS FIELD might well be impressive, but it doesn't make him an expert on everything. Especially when THOUSANDS of scientists, whose speciality is Earth's climate all says he's dead wrong. Let's not also forget the tragic deterioration in mental faculties that all to often comes with age.
A basic logic check says his beliefs are unlikely to be true. His assertions that AGW is a conspiracy by the U.S. government to control it's citizens doesn't make sense when the U.S. is probably the worst offender in the world in denying AGW. Also, what would the rest of the world care about buying into a domestic U.S. political manipulation?
What has being a test pilot got to do with climate science? Even geology isn't strongly linked. His knowledge IN HIS FIELD might well be impressive, but it doesn't make him an expert on everything. Especially when THOUSANDS of scientists, whose speciality is Earth's climate all says he's dead wrong. Let's not also forget the tragic deterioration in mental faculties that all to often comes with age.
A basic logic check says his beliefs are unlikely to be true. His assertions that AGW is a conspiracy by the U.S. government to control it's citizens doesn't make sense when the U.S. is probably the worst offender in the world in denying AGW. Also, what would the rest of the world care about buying into a domestic U.S. political manipulation?
sendler2112
100 kW
PDF round up from IAEA of small modular reactor designs under consideration.
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https://aris.iaea.org/Publications/SMR-Book_2018.pdf
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https://aris.iaea.org/Publications/SMR-Book_2018.pdf
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Hillhater
100 TW
So you are just assuming its in "balance" .?Punx0r said:
On a planetary timescale , atmospheric CO2 levels are currently at one of the lowest levels they have ever been,. And temperatures are lower than the long term average.
Hillhater
100 TW
Pilots, , commercial , military, even private, are trained to understand weather patterns and atmospheric conditions, and their effects, together with the factors that influence them.Punx0r said:
I Suspect Astronaughts need to go way beyond any normal pilots level of understanding atmospheric systems (their lives depend on it !). As well as planetary and solar interactions.
You cannot compare men/women who dedicate most of their life to interplanetary travel, to a bunch of political puppets (IPCC) , and label them as "fruitcakes",..just because they have a different understanding of a controversial theoretical topic.
I'm a pilot. And the weather I learned was restricted to how that weather affects airplanes. We got zip, zero, nada information about climactic forcing, or even about weather prediction (beyond the basics, like correlating pressure changes with front arrival.)Hillhater said:
You might as well claim that pilots are programming geniuses because their instruments are largely run by computers nowadays, or that they are expert doctors because they have to decide when a medical issue necessitates a landing.
Uh, astronauts fly in . . . space. Where there is no atmosphere. Shuttle pilots got the same weather training as any other commercial pilots. Well, a little less, since they had about a hundred other experts looking at the weather as well, so they don't need to sit in a cockpit looking at radar returns trying to deduce what a weather system is doing.
No astronaut alive has dedicated his/her life to interplanetary travel. But that's beside the point. Even if they had, that has nothing to do with understanding climate change, any more than a sea captain must understand ocean chemistry.
Astronauts are people, like any other segment of society. Generally better educated due to the requirements of their job. Some are fruitcakes. Some are mental cases. Some are political puppets. Most are pretty reasonable people. Claiming "well, but they are ASTRONAUTS, so they must understand climate science!" is one of your sillier claims.
Hillhater
100 TW
12 people have walked on the moon, a few dozen have left the Earths gravity.
Our of the thousands that trained, those few were selected for their many skills and abilities.
"Fruitcake" would have eliminated anyone at the first application form !
Our of the thousands that trained, those few were selected for their many skills and abilities.
"Fruitcake" would have eliminated anyone at the first application form !
sendler2112
100 kW
found several years worth of good data for a 50kW solar PV system in Ithaca, NY. 13.7% capacity factor for the lifetime. Located at an intentional community so it gets the best care, snow removal, cleaning.
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https://www.sunnyportal.com/Templates/PublicPageOverview.aspx?page=aada1d7a-5767-424a-9275-42e8bec717c9&plant=d33937cf-acfe-4775-b14a-74093353ecf8&splang=en-US
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https://www.sunnyportal.com/Templates/PublicPageOverview.aspx?page=aada1d7a-5767-424a-9275-42e8bec717c9&plant=d33937cf-acfe-4775-b14a-74093353ecf8&splang=en-US
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Nope. They were selected for their abilities as astronauts, not for their ability to study atmospheric science (or even come to rational conclusions about their experiences.)Hillhater said:
Gordon Cooper, one of the Mercury AND Gemini astronauts, and backup for several Apollo missions: "I believe that extra-terrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets... Most astronauts were reluctant to discuss UFOs... I did have occasion in 1951 to have two days of observation of many flights of them, of different sizes, flying in fighter formation, generally from east to west over Europe."
Great astronaut. Fruitcake about UFO's.
What you are doing now is the classic logical fallacy "appeal to authority." This is a fallacy where someone's opinion is given more weight because they are famous in a way that gives them some level of celebrity - even though that fame comes about from something unrelated to the subject being discussed.
sendler2112
100 kW
sendler2112 said:
The cheapest pricing I have seen in the NY area is from Renovus on community/ shared grid scale installations at $2.20/ kW installed. So the Ithaca group's 50kW system would have cost at least $110,000 and have a 15 year pay back at $0.12/ kWh if the electric company gives them the very generous situation of buying any instantaneous excess at the "meter runs backwards" price. If they only received the true spot price for their excess they would only get back around $0.04
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State and national rebates would give back an additional $60,000 of the installation price. And they might even qualify as a "grid scale" installation which unlocks a further $0.03/ kWh federal "feed in tariff" reimbursment.
Right. And in that case the value of the array would be about $0.07/kwhr, because they would get the FIT of 0.04 when they generate more than they use, and they would get 0.12/kwhr reduction in the bill when they offset their own use - and those heavy use times (hot sunny days in the summer) will tend to coincide with maximum solar generation. So that gives you a payback time of ~30 years unsubsidized - in one of the worst places in the US for solar.sendler2112 said:
Bring down the cost of solar (which has been happening regularly) or move the installation to a better location, and payback times go down dramatically.
Hillhater
100 TW
And what you are doing is the classic,'. "Discredit the messenger". Which is a tactic used by oponents who fear that the knowledge and experience of that messenger could cause others to pay attention tto the message.billvon said:
Nope. (BTW the term is ad hominem, not "discredit the messenger.") I am sure he is a nice guy, and has as much credibility as any other layperson. (Say, yourself.) So does my friend Pete the Southwest pilot, who is another climate change denier.Hillhater said:
He does not have as much credibility as, say, a climate researcher on the topic of climate change.
As an aside, do you believe that UFO's are visiting the Earth and flying in formation over it?
Hillhater
100 TW
An independent free opinion is worth more than a thousand sponsored ones.billvon said:
Hillhater
100 TW
Or have research funded by any organisation with a particular interest in a specific outcome !Punx0r said:
TheBeastie
1 MW
That is interesting, still a small scale solar compared to the big ones out there.sendler2112 said:
linked the embeded image, looks like they had some issues in 2016, probably inverter breakdowns.
https://www.sunnyportal.com/chartfx70/temp/CFV1022_04290109E28.png
I am so sick of you other guys talking about climate change in this thread, start a new thread if you want as this is just getting so annoying.
Starting a new thread will help reduce database load as it would cause less data to be pointlessly served when all people want to actually read about is energy technology.
Hillhater, I think Bilvon is just baiting you to fill this thread with crap about climate change that will never ever end.
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