Tesla Model 3
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Hillhater
100 TW
You are living in a dream world !Arlo1 said:
China's electricity in 2016...
4.6% fron Solar
66%. from Coal
They will NEVER shut down their coal plants in the foreseeable future.
Solar will NEVER be their main source of power generation.
TheBeastie
1 MW
Everytime I see a cool thing to post I decide I have to wait till the next page on the forum comes up, all I have to do is wait for bilvon/hillhater etc to argue about climate change etc on almost any thread here now till the next page comes up.
And here it is..
Hillhater, these people are wired for the tribalism/politics etc, all of this stuff on co2 is attached to being a Democrat voter vs a Republican supporter, thus the truth simply does not matter. Or a lot of them have admitted have a financial incentive attached to their views like investments or jobs in renewables etc, they don't care what the truth might be.
There is absolutely no point arguing with them, for example, I am pretty sure bilvon said he even owns a solar business, in fact for a lot of the frequent posters on here I can't think of many of the folks on here who haven't mentioned financial incentive/job-work behind their views at one point in time. So you shouldn't ever believe you can possibly change their views, ever.
Like I have said before, forums like Whirlpool brutally suspend/ban folks for out topic posts or merely deliberate pointless posts like just doing +1 in a reply because its just filling the forum up with garbage and is disrespectful. And comparatively, if Whirlpool forums find you have financial incentive behind your post you are totally banned, that is a low act as far they are concerned.
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For me, I know I have seen an honest Tesla review on youtube when you see them complain about how long you have to wait to get access to a charge station because they are overcrowded, and then how annoying it can be waiting for your car to charge.
This video takes it to the next level, a brutal supercharger access fight.
https://twitter.com/jaydenolson1/status/1054076304654364672
^Sorry, no one has uploaded it to youtube. ^Wow looks like the video self-embedded for super convenience, nice ES forum update that one. This is a good one, because Twitter for the last year has been on fire for good information and videos etc, so many people don't upload little bits to youtube any more, it all goes to Twitter now, believe it or not..
Some argue that Elon Musk/Tesla has destroyed its reputation aiming for a profitable quarter.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some professional traders who analyze Tesla financials and production data on incredibly deep metrics, talk about Elon Musk as a man who is nonother than going to go to jail for a long time, at least eventually.
Seemed over the top when I first saw claims like that but with the news that just came out that even the FBI is subpoenaing ex-Tesla employees, this seems probable.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/26/18029140/tesla-model-3-production-fbi-investigation
FBI agents contacting former Tesla employees asking them for testimony in the criminal case. Some ex-employees were subpoenaed, and the FBI is seeking to interview several of them. The government’s investigation is said to stretch back to early 2017, when Tesla first began to publicize projections about the Model 3 production.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-reportedly-faces-fbi-criminal-investigation/
Saw this summary tweet about Elon's activities and thought it was good
Elon said his (fake) $420 go private was to avoid public scrutiny and short sellers....DURING an alleged all-time best record quarter that he should be dying to publish!!!
Remember his now criminal "funding secured for a take over at $420" tweet was during this most recent supposedly truly smash-hit quarterly profits result that any CEO would only dream of.
So logically there is no reason in the word to have made such a tweet if the numbers are true.
Seems like this is really unfolding into an interesting story now, almost as action packed as an Iron Man movie. What would make it really complete is that Elon Musk gets in so much trouble he turns to advancing the Super AI breakthrough to solve all his problems, and he finally cracks the Super AI nut and merely asks the Super AI to give himself superhuman powers so that no one in the planet can stop him and he can take over the world and avoid jail... Or something of that nature..
The argument being made as to why Tesla moved their 3rd quarter financial report days earlier than originally set (which is a very unusal thing to do) was due to the fact the WSJ reached out to Elon for a comment around a week BEFORE the WSJ was going to publish its "new FBI subpoena/criminal investigation" story.
This means Elon had to get his glowing profit report out early before the FBI story hit, otherwise it would ruin the Tesla stock price momentum..
https://twitter.com/markbspiegel/status/1056291369529106433
"Ellison went off script during an analyst meeting late Thursday to bring up the electric-car maker and its billionaire chief executive officer. He said Tesla is his second-largest investment"
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-26/oracle-s-ellison-says-tesla-is-his-second-biggest-investment
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the whole issue of invisible running costs on Tesla like insurance here is a tweet which I am assuming is for the USA insurance.
This issue revolves around how difficult it is for 3rd party repairs and suppliers and just in general companies outside of Tesla to deal with them, it all ends up in just more expensive insurance costs. Such things are going to trickle down in time into potential Tesla customers decision making.
https://twitter.com/TradingTrooper/status/1056362542640062465
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More on Elon's twitter activity https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-27/musk-boasts-funding-secured-tweet-was-worth-it-calls-fbi-investigation-total-bs
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Like how I pointed out in my youtube roundup on Tesla competitors coming, Jim Chanos has always said the competition is the surest thing that will hurt Tesla.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=70349&start=500#p1415608
If the latest update to Norway sales is to go by this seems true.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All up I think unhappy customers from Tesla is in some ways a good thing, people trust mainstream-media way too much, which Tesla has had very positive support from them for years. People just don't google or browse the web enough other than merely what a swipe of Facebook might bring them.
And here it is..
Hillhater, these people are wired for the tribalism/politics etc, all of this stuff on co2 is attached to being a Democrat voter vs a Republican supporter, thus the truth simply does not matter. Or a lot of them have admitted have a financial incentive attached to their views like investments or jobs in renewables etc, they don't care what the truth might be.
There is absolutely no point arguing with them, for example, I am pretty sure bilvon said he even owns a solar business, in fact for a lot of the frequent posters on here I can't think of many of the folks on here who haven't mentioned financial incentive/job-work behind their views at one point in time. So you shouldn't ever believe you can possibly change their views, ever.
Like I have said before, forums like Whirlpool brutally suspend/ban folks for out topic posts or merely deliberate pointless posts like just doing +1 in a reply because its just filling the forum up with garbage and is disrespectful. And comparatively, if Whirlpool forums find you have financial incentive behind your post you are totally banned, that is a low act as far they are concerned.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For me, I know I have seen an honest Tesla review on youtube when you see them complain about how long you have to wait to get access to a charge station because they are overcrowded, and then how annoying it can be waiting for your car to charge.
This video takes it to the next level, a brutal supercharger access fight.
https://twitter.com/jaydenolson1/status/1054076304654364672
^Sorry, no one has uploaded it to youtube. ^Wow looks like the video self-embedded for super convenience, nice ES forum update that one. This is a good one, because Twitter for the last year has been on fire for good information and videos etc, so many people don't upload little bits to youtube any more, it all goes to Twitter now, believe it or not..
Some argue that Elon Musk/Tesla has destroyed its reputation aiming for a profitable quarter.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some professional traders who analyze Tesla financials and production data on incredibly deep metrics, talk about Elon Musk as a man who is nonother than going to go to jail for a long time, at least eventually.
Seemed over the top when I first saw claims like that but with the news that just came out that even the FBI is subpoenaing ex-Tesla employees, this seems probable.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/26/18029140/tesla-model-3-production-fbi-investigation
FBI agents contacting former Tesla employees asking them for testimony in the criminal case. Some ex-employees were subpoenaed, and the FBI is seeking to interview several of them. The government’s investigation is said to stretch back to early 2017, when Tesla first began to publicize projections about the Model 3 production.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-reportedly-faces-fbi-criminal-investigation/
Saw this summary tweet about Elon's activities and thought it was good
Elon said his (fake) $420 go private was to avoid public scrutiny and short sellers....DURING an alleged all-time best record quarter that he should be dying to publish!!!
Remember his now criminal "funding secured for a take over at $420" tweet was during this most recent supposedly truly smash-hit quarterly profits result that any CEO would only dream of.
So logically there is no reason in the word to have made such a tweet if the numbers are true.
Seems like this is really unfolding into an interesting story now, almost as action packed as an Iron Man movie. What would make it really complete is that Elon Musk gets in so much trouble he turns to advancing the Super AI breakthrough to solve all his problems, and he finally cracks the Super AI nut and merely asks the Super AI to give himself superhuman powers so that no one in the planet can stop him and he can take over the world and avoid jail... Or something of that nature..
The argument being made as to why Tesla moved their 3rd quarter financial report days earlier than originally set (which is a very unusal thing to do) was due to the fact the WSJ reached out to Elon for a comment around a week BEFORE the WSJ was going to publish its "new FBI subpoena/criminal investigation" story.
This means Elon had to get his glowing profit report out early before the FBI story hit, otherwise it would ruin the Tesla stock price momentum..
https://twitter.com/markbspiegel/status/1056291369529106433
"Ellison went off script during an analyst meeting late Thursday to bring up the electric-car maker and its billionaire chief executive officer. He said Tesla is his second-largest investment"
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-26/oracle-s-ellison-says-tesla-is-his-second-biggest-investment
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the whole issue of invisible running costs on Tesla like insurance here is a tweet which I am assuming is for the USA insurance.
This issue revolves around how difficult it is for 3rd party repairs and suppliers and just in general companies outside of Tesla to deal with them, it all ends up in just more expensive insurance costs. Such things are going to trickle down in time into potential Tesla customers decision making.
https://twitter.com/TradingTrooper/status/1056362542640062465
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More on Elon's twitter activity https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-27/musk-boasts-funding-secured-tweet-was-worth-it-calls-fbi-investigation-total-bs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like how I pointed out in my youtube roundup on Tesla competitors coming, Jim Chanos has always said the competition is the surest thing that will hurt Tesla.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=70349&start=500#p1415608
If the latest update to Norway sales is to go by this seems true.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All up I think unhappy customers from Tesla is in some ways a good thing, people trust mainstream-media way too much, which Tesla has had very positive support from them for years. People just don't google or browse the web enough other than merely what a swipe of Facebook might bring them.
Hillhater
100 TW
So, lets get this clear..billvon said:
Everyone has to own an EV to provide power when the Sun is not shining. ?
Those EV's have to be connected to the power system during the day to charge...
...and they also must be connected to the power system when there is no sun in order to supply power ??
A little restrictive in the availability of the EV for transport ...dont you think
And the power system (solar) has to have enough capacity to supply all normal day time use, AND extra to charge EVs with sufficient power to provide energy for the 18 or so, hours of darkness.!!
Yes,!....that sounds like a wotkable plan !!
Its NEVER going to happen !
You have any idea how many times I herd the work "Never" in this industry.... Like EVs will never happen in my lifetime. You will never make that run... EVs can never be faster.... You should never make a AWD car for better acceleration... We can never solve this climate problem......Hillhater said:
Nope. You've got that exactly backwards.Hillhater said:
People who own an EV can charge when the sun is shining. No new power plants required.
Meanwhile, interesting article on the Model 3 from Forbes:
========================================================
Guess What? Everyone Was Wrong About Tesla
Enrique Dans
Forbes
October 28 2018
Pretty much everything has been said about Tesla: it was selling vehicles at a loss and would never be able to make them under the right conditions and fast enough, that its founder was crazy and would lead the company to ruin, while one industry veteran acclaimed the Model S, calling on car collectors to buy one “before the company goes belly up.” But this quarter, Tesla has not only made tons of money, boosting its share price and giving the NASDAQ its best day in months, but has also fulfilled its production and distribution objectives, showing every sign of staying in the black, at least until it has to pay interest on loans in the first quarter of next year.
For once, this third quarter does not seem to be the exception: everything indicates the company has found a stable way to generate profits. What’s more, Tesla is no longer an industry quirk: many have laughed at its production difficulties, grossly underestimating the achievement of moving from a standing start to mass producing 80,000 vehicles per quarter, but the company is now outselling Porsche, Mercedes Benz and BMW, making it the best-selling domestically-made car in the United States, and what’s more with a model that while expensive, is more advanced technologically, as well as cheaper and much safer to run that its internal combustion powered competitors.
This quarter’s spectacular results have confounded the analysts’ forecasts, proving what some of us have been saying for a while now, that few in the motor industry and its so-called experts few understand the strategic vision of a company prepared to take risks to change the world. Virtually everyone was wrong about Tesla’s finances and its future, and many analysts are now scratching their heads trying to understand what happened while still making recommendations of questionable credibility. For one thing, most analysts simply can’t get their head round the idea that a company’s customers would volunteer to help distribute its vehicles, contributing to a project they consider themselves part of. . .
Meanwhile, the company’s profit margin on every Model 3 it sells is now around 20%, well above the industry average in its segment, and overnight its prospects for growth and profitability now seem not only credible, but probable, regardless of the belief in some quarters that Musk is crazy. The world would be a better place with a few more crazy people like him in positions of leadership.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/enriquedans/2018/10/28/guess-what-everyone-was-wrong-about-tesla/#49fe55643ca4
=================================
Hillhater
100 TW
And here is another for you..Arlo1 said:
You can NEVER solve a problem that does not exist .!
....but you will create other problems in the process.
Hillhater
100 TW
Ahh !,... So only those people with EVs can have power afrer dark ?billvon said:
Providing there is enough solar installed to charge their EVs.. (and power their domestic needs during the day)
How do you expect to generate 24 hrs worth of power in just 6-8 hrs of sunshine , without large numbers of new solar power plants ??
Nope. Once again, the opposite.Hillhater said:
Nope. Now you are making s**t up just to rail against it. This thread is about the Model 3, and specifically about how to charge them. Nothing about your "domestic needs."
Here's an idea. Why don't you state your own premise, then argue against it? That way you won't be confused by what people are actually posting.
Hillhater
100 TW
Sometimes....(most times) you are your own worst enemy bill. !billvon said:
Retrace the posts/conversation and see exactly where the discussion came from before you threw in your pet ideas about storage using EVs.
It was about solar being cheaper than coal and supplying all the power that coal currently provides..specificly in China etc ,
.....Nothing about how to charge a Model 3 !
Hillhater said:
So a couple of things. Currently most EV owners likely charge at home, during night hours. That is okay while there is a deficit of power during the day, and surplus at night (conventional power plants can't be easily wound down). Once there is enough EVs, the balance will likely change - there will be a shortage at night, as well as significant load during the day. One thing we may need to look into is to change where/when EVs are charged - instead of charging them at night, we may want them charged during the day when like others said the energy can come directly from solar. Basically need to outfit parking lots, industrial/commercial rooftops with solar so that people can charge while at work.
Second thing is about the sunshine. It is 6-8 hours in a single locality. The key to this problem is to distribute the generation facilities East to West (especially in the US) to catch maximum amount of daily sun as entire solar grid, and ship the energy to consumers using High Voltage DC transmission lines. HVDC has been proven to have significantly lower losses per 1000km than AC lines, making it feasible to ship energy for thousands of miles.
Finally the residential solar - there we probably want to build more hybrid systems with batteries.
Hillhater said:
Sure. Sorry you are confused. To recap:
Neptronix proposed subsidizing coal power plants in rural areas to charge electric vehicles. Not provide power to cities at night. To charge EV's.
You, predictably, jumped in with your "fossil fuels are very good and cheap!" schitck. You pointed out that fossil fuels produce energy at night.
I posted that when charging EV's (i.e. the subject of Neptronix's post) you don't have to produce power at night, since you can charge when solar power is available.
You, having long forgotten the subject of Nep's post in your zeal to push your favorite agenda, started in with your usual "coal is great" meme.
A little clearer now?
Other than the title of the thread. And Neptronix's post that you were replying to.
Ohbse
10 kW
Arlo1 said:
He's convinced there is no 'climate problem', that co2 is essential for life and the enormous scientific consensus and body of evidence is made up by hand wringing liberals. Honestly, just ignore him entirely - he's proven time and time again to be immune to reason.
Along with Mr Beastie, these guys just love being contrarian shitposters, it's a big part of their identities it would seem.
Back ON topic, Model 3 is killing it. Still people coming up with BS reasons why the wheels are going to fall off the tesla train. I look forward to Model 3 availability in Europe and APAC to further prove them wrong. There's a huge potential market - arguably bigger than the US for a mid size sedan in Europe. If I was BMW I'd be very, very concerned that the majority of the 3 series sales are going to evaporate virtually overnight.
Hillhater
100 TW
No, you have conveniently mised Arlo's post (after Nep's). that i was replying to..billvon said:
... Which is when i pointed out the flaw in that statement due to the intermittent and unpridictable nature of Solar requireing investment in Fossil back up supply.Arlo1 said:
That degenerated into more false statements about China shutting down all Coal generation etc
.....Then, later, you came in with your suggestion that EVs will substitute for night time/ poor weather, power generation.!
Which i asked you to clarify exactly how that might work..
...And which you have managed to avoid answering by diverting the thread to another trivial argument...as usual !
So , you see, i was not replying to Neptronixs post, i was replying to Arlo's .billvon said:
Yep. Tesla took a huge gamble. They didn't just try to sell into the existing market of small electric cars, they tried to create a whole new market - ultra high performance luxury EV's. But now it looks like that risk is paying off.Ohbse said:
I just test drove a Model 3 performance version - and that thing is a BLAST to drive. It's so fast that you have to be careful where you floor it because you are over the speed limit almost before you have a chance to look at the speedometer. (0-60 in 3.3 seconds!) Its low CoG makes it feel like it's glued to the road, with almost no body roll during cornering. And even with the smaller-than-model-S 75kwhr battery pack it has a range of over 300 miles. (Most Model S's are shipping with 90kwhr now.)
The one (and only one) display takes some getting used to, but it's not too bad - you just have to look right and down rather than just down. For me a hatch would have been better than a trunk, but the seats do fold down.
Europe is crying out for an affordable, mid-sized EV. There's a fair few hybrids, a smattering of limited-range PHEVs but not much choice of cars that are primarily battery-powered. The choices are all lack-lustre cars with limited range, Leaf-standard stuff. The Bolt/Volt or Model 3 would clean up.
The relative popularity of the model S and even X shows the appetite for BEVs, even at a very premium price.
The relative popularity of the model S and even X shows the appetite for BEVs, even at a very premium price.
Hillhater said:
Well, it's not a complex problem, especially if the power is to be used for for the same household where vehicle is parked during those times.
First, the vehicle needs to have an AUX tap into the EV's pack/BMS. It can be the same as charging port once there is a bi-directional standard. That gets connected to an inverter supporting multiple generation sources and/or AC passthrough. Vehicle is then programmed for the energy budget that can be spent for this purpose (i.e. if my commute takes 25% of the charge, I can easily spend 50-60% on powering up the house during an outage).
For grid-tied operation it is a bit trickier, and depends on distributed capacity management. Vehicles then can be remotely activated/deactivated to supplement the local grid deficits. Technically the grid itself can be used to carry communication signals (typically short-distance, due to noise).
Hillhater
100 TW
But that assumes ownership of both an EV , and a "household" (property ?)cricketo said:
What about those of the population who live in high rise cities, rented property, no parking, no EV, using public transport , etc ..
..what would they do...especially if they are in the NE during the winter months ??
billvon said:
+1
Hillhater said:
Question was about how to use battery packs in EVs for energy generation, not about how to use Model 3 to solve world hunger.
But once again, localized energy production / storage is meant to offload the grid, not to replace it completely. For solving grid-scale power generation problems I suggest installing solar plants across Southern US East to West, and then shipping energy using High Voltage DC Transmission lines.
Hillhater
100 TW
No... That may be the question in your head, but the recent discussion in the thread was regarding solar replacing all world coal generation, and being, as you put it .." The ultimate solution"cricketo said:
And now, your solution is going to need to transfer 100's of GW from the southern states to the North. !
That will be some impressive DC transmission system ... Which i assume you know the cost of ?
Of course there will also be long periods of darkness and bad weather , requireing an equally impressive ..and expensive, storage network. ( remember all those city folk without EV's )
Maybe one day you will understand the economics side of the energy debate.?
Hillhater said:
from wikipedia:
So if developing China and Brazil can afford them, maybe if US were to reallocate say 1% of the defense budget, we could perhaps
build some too ?
Just some wishful thinking I guess...But yeah, keep debating. Meanwhile I and other folks will continue landing rockets on barges.
No, that was the discussion you want to have (and can't get away from in another thread.) Again, check out the title. It's right there at the top of your screen.Hillhater said:
Meanwhile, back to the actual topic - Tesla is starting to lower the price on Model 3 features.
===================================
Tesla reduces price of Model 3 Performance
Fred Lambert
Electrek
Oct. 26th 2018 8:43 pm ET
Tesla has made a pricing change to its Model 3 Performance vehicle by including the previously $5,000 Performance Upgrades Package free.
. . .
In August, Tesla started deliveries of the new Model 3 Performance.
The vehicle could be ordered for $69,000, but Tesla quickly changed the base price to $64,000 and unbundled some features to offer a $5,000 Performance Upgrades Package.
The package included several important features:
20” Performance Wheels
Performance Brakes
Carbon fiber spoiler
Lowered suspension
Aluminum alloy pedals
Increased top speed from 145mph to 155mph
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