New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

sidmodi said:
1 week of reading and 150 pages later, here I am. First and foremost, a huge shoutout to Casainho (and co) for creating and maintaining the open source project. And a huge thanks to everyone else who has posted on this thread filling it up with (mostly useful) knowledge.

Hope everything goes well, don’t be afraid to ask questions :)
 
Hi I'm new here and have been using my TSDZ2 motor for a month. I love it and it seems making the upgrade to the KT-LCD3 with new firmware is the next best thing. Does anyone here maybe know a business or a person in or around Austin, Texas familiar with this motor? I'm looking to see if someone would do this for me as I have bought all the components just don't have the know how. :?:
 
Rydon said:
The coaster brake version is different controller firmware and is also mechanically different. There is 0 motor lag after you stop pedaling and it does not freewheel at the cranks.
Picnic said:
So why is not everybody using this motor? Zero motor lag is no problem, and one freewheel less positive because less defects. Does @Casainho's software have any problems with the coaster brake version of that motor?

For obvious reasons e.g., no freewheel at the motor, you cannot have a throttle or walk assist with the coaster brake version. Also, I don't know the full reason why but TongSheng does not feel the coaster brake version of the motor is safe above 350 watts. I am cautiously running a few at 500 watts and have not seen any safety issues.
 
mctubster said:
Rafe said:
The 850C/DPC14 was improved some months ago and the clock actually remembers the time now. To charge the coin cell, the display needs to be on, battery switched on alone is not enough, Afaik It is not made by Bafang while the new DPC 18 is. I have the DPC 18 and have had both ( I believe there are more than two) variants of the DPC14/850c and my favourite is the later DPC 14 /850c. The viewing angles are good and the remote buttons much improved.

Are you aware of anyway to tell the difference (externally) between the two 850c revisions?

As someone pointed out - the numbers on the back of the 850C are the best way to tell the difference. There were 3-4 different versions during 2016 to 2017 with different firmware for each. One of the latest mods doubled the memory. The 850C versions and firmware appear to have stabilized since the end of 2017. All of 2018 has been the same firmware. Look for 850C-TFTGDV2.1B60 and 850C-TFTGDV2.1C60 as the latest versions. They both use the same firmware.
 
Re Rydon, let me take a wild stab in the dark guess. No facts, just speculation:

Don't see how you could backpedal without the motor backpeddlin' along with you. I mean, wouldn't that strip a gear trying to spin the motor? Therefore you prolly got 500W of coaster braking assist. More than you may actually need. And once it locks up, all current in the motor with no back EMF to restrict it, or movement to keep things cool. Like going straight uphill in high gear, backwards, only worse.

Maybe why they think unsafe? Firmware should be smarter, but perhaps it isn't. Not even a thermal sensor unless you add one. 350W limit might just be a substitute for lazy. Smaller current limit for reverse should solve it. If it already had that feature, backpedal Watt limit would be meaningless and never challenged.

--- --- ---

I didn't get the coaster version, and have never tried it. Traded my 3i coaster away for a CSA 6speed automatic, still in the mail somewhere theoretically. Right now with no rear hub, no spokes, no decided front or rear brake plan whatsoever. Can't exactly ride it like this. A little worried my TSDZ2's chainring sprag will drag more than the CSA derailleur can pull, excess chain could pile up at the top. But until it all arrives (if ever) I can't even make a plan to deal with all the unknown unknowns. Autoshifting with 500W should be interessent, if'n it doesn't fold from such abuse right off the bat. As long as front freewheel drags less than the rear, it should at least downshift to 1st without having to think about it, and that might help.

Did this test fit with chopsticks though. Half-baked scheme still needs to do something about inside face of motor housing. Its all clamped against the top edge of the American bracket and force is not well distributed. If I really wanted to fix this correctly, Bikewow makes an adaptor with a ring that spans a BB30 shaped depression on the inside face. I may just fill the problem area flat with JBWeld, so the entire circumference of my bracket might support the inside face. No sense having it crack in two, as someone in this thread showed us earlier.
 
Or 3D print your own adapter.
 
I "bought" Sturmey hubs and several things I needed from a seller that took the money and never shipped. My remaining budget for 3D is zilch. Hopefully the CSA trade goes better. Buyers regret over a buck worth of chopsticks, when I could have used twigs from the yard.
 
KD5ZXG said:
So, finding some new hope after losing a bunch of money on ripoffs.
I decided was as good a day as any to bang out my bearing cups and
try to fit TSDZ2 on the Electra I had originally intended it for. The
hole through the cups was plenty bigger than 30mm, but the motor
won't clear the bottom edge unless purposely placed not on center.

Hi, sorry to hear of your issues. I 3D printed a PLA SHIM to space out my bottom bracket which was a Dutch non standard size. I printed it solid and it has survived well although almost all load goes against the outside edge of the bottom bracket shell.

It sounds like you have challenges here too, as you don't have enough clearance to center it? Any pics I can look at?

I would be happy to print a SHIM or whatever you need and send to you if you can give me accurate dimensions. It will take a little while to come from down under (AU) though.

Best
Steve
 
KD5ZXG said:
So, finding some new hope after losing a bunch of money on ripoffs.
I decided was as good a day as any to bang out my bearing cups and
try to fit TSDZ2 on the Electra I had originally intended it for. The
hole through the cups was plenty bigger than 30mm, but the motor
won't clear the bottom edge unless purposely placed not on center.

These work great. A little pricey though. If you don't want to mess around get these.

https://lunacycle.com/american-style-eccentric-bb-to-bsa-adapter/
 
Luna shape probably works fine for Bafang. For TSDZ2, you need the green highlighted ring chainside, as shown on Bikewow adaptor. Else BB30 surrounding ridge of TSDZ2 is all that touches (red) an American bottom bracket. Taking side clamping force in a bad way. Red is not a problem with this adaptor, but could be with the Luna.

Bikewow.jpg

If you 3d print something, print the ring separate, to work for both brands. I was just going to fill (JBWeld) my TSDZ2 flat. So it fits like [strikeout]Bafang[/strikeout], and no longer needs the chainside spacer ring. The non-chain side should be flat, ringless in either case.

I don't think you could duplicate these shallow adaptor cups in PLA and not shear the lips off. Need to slightly overfill the entire 68mm width if they are going to support either brand's inside face. To prevent the clamping problem marked in red.
 
This:
AmericanMisfit.jpg

Correction: Looks like this Bafang may have same problem, wanting same or similar ring. 01,02,HD, none are flat. What made me think they were flat? Better yet, why does Luna (who should definitely know better than I) make adaptors as-if all inside faces were flat???
another misfit.jpg
 
KD5ZXG said:
Luna shape probably works fine for Bafang. For TSDZ2, you need the green highlighted ring chainside, as shown on Bikewow adaptor. Else BB30 surrounding ridge of TSDZ2 is all that touches (red) an American bottom bracket. Taking side clamping force in a bad way. Red is not a problem with this adaptor, but could be with the Luna.

All you need are bb spacers to avoid the problem you describe: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50pcs-lot-MTB-Bottom-Bracket-Washer-Bicycle-Flywheel-Hub-Spacer-Gasket-3-Colors-Aluminium-Alloy-Bike/32764311199.html

They are commonly used for chainstay clearance issues with both Bafang and TSDZ2.

I hadn't seen the bikewow version of the adapter. Still pricey.
 
A stack of washer rings as you linked (pic shure looks like BB30 and cassette might be same diameter) could work. You say its been done already, so lets say I trust.

OTOH: Looks like Lingbei GP could be the rare exception, not wanting/needing a ring. Some sort of cone shape fits inside BB30 or adaptor
with BB30 size holes. Would probably sit flush on an American bottom bracket.

LingbeiGP.jpg

Enough about others, I have TSDZ2. Just getting one size to rule them all out the way.
 
Finally I got Bafang 850C LCD working!!!

I had to buy a logic analyzer and was my first time using it -- always learning :)







The firmware is here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/Color_LCD/tree/master/Bafang_LCD_850C_firmware
 
Very cool hacking!!!!
Where did you buy yours? Just to be sure to have the same Version.
thx
vscope
 
vscope said:
Very cool hacking!!!!
Where did you buy yours? Just to be sure to have the same Version.
thx
vscope
Here: http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2016-5e-2eaj
 
Hi.
Question on custom firmware. Is there anyone here, who has a trottle trigger and it work? Controller with 8 pin cable. Hall sensor connected on: white + 5v, black -ground, orange- signal. When i plug my trigger, motor start on max power. Сable testing does nothing. sorry for my english...
 
Thanks to Casainho, Endlesscadence an all who've worked on the new firmware. This has turned a good product, into a great product. what also makes a difference is Lekki Buzz bar offset peddles. I bought a 160mm pair as I couldnt get a 170 black pair in the uk. I fitted them and didn't like them for a start. But after using them for a couple of rides I really like them. The 160mm cranks seem to smooth out the motor even more.

But there are 3 things that would make the TSDZ2 + opensource firmware a fantastic product. These are 1) Fix the latency when pedaling 2) get a walk mode working and 3) fix the resistance when pushing backward with the motor switched on.

I have a Yamaha haibike as well as my TSDZ2 converted bike, and I prefer my TSDZ2 for normal biking and exploring. My sduro I use for more 'serious' all mountain stuff as its a full suspension model.

Keep up the great work.
 
As someone pointed out - the numbers on the back of the 850C are the best way to tell the difference. There were 3-4 different versions during 2016 to 2017 with different firmware for each. One of the latest mods doubled the memory. The 850C versions and firmware appear to have stabilized since the end of 2017. All of 2018 has been the same firmware. Look for 850C-TFTGDV2.1B60 and 850C-TFTGDV2.1C60 as the latest versions. They both use the same firmware.

Thank you for the information.

I have TFTGDV4A60 V5.2 dated 201709 ... so looks like a earlier version and different line. Selling with my BBS now anyway, so if I get another one for the TDSZ2 I can assume the RTC will work!

And yes the buyer knows the RTC is wonkie :)
 
Rydon said:
KD5ZXG said:
So, finding some new hope after losing a bunch of money on ripoffs.
I decided was as good a day as any to bang out my bearing cups and
try to fit TSDZ2 on the Electra I had originally intended it for. The
hole through the cups was plenty bigger than 30mm, but the motor
won't clear the bottom edge unless purposely placed not on center.

These work great. A little pricey though. If you don't want to mess around get these.

https://lunacycle.com/american-style-eccentric-bb-to-bsa-adapter/

I think I'm missing something here ... To me it looks like these adaptors fit inside the bottom bracket shell. If so how do they transfer the load to the adaptor face if their combined width is not the same or slightly more than the bottom bracket shell?
 
Bartman said:
what also makes a difference is Lekki Buzz bar offset peddles. I bought a 160mm pair as I couldnt get a 170 black pair in the uk. I fitted them and didn't like them for a start. But after using them for a couple of rides I really like them. The 160mm cranks seem to smooth out the motor even more.

Thanks for the tip re these pedals. I just had a look and it looks like the left pedal has an offset away from the frame? As in it spaces you legs even further apart? I want to bring the right pedal in closer to the frame like the Bafang cranks do. Could you please confirm your experience?

Cheers
 
A really quick but huge thank you to Casainho and Endlesscadence for all of the amazing work that has gone into the opensource firmware project for the TSDZ2. Also a big thank you to jbalat for the youtube videos which helped with my flashing and the wiki documentation updates from sbridger too.

I am running the latest 14.2 firmware and first decent ride today. I will refine and cleanup and add to the wiki documentation with photos once I have push access.

Many thanks again
Steve
 
casainho said:
Finally I got Bafang 850C LCD working!!!

Yay!!! Awesome! Way to go!

I have TSDZ2 working with the 850C already. This will mean only needing to flash the new firmware with same cable setup. Can the 850C be flashed through the 5 pin higo connector or do you need to open it up?

BTW, the 750C display is now shipping with Bluetooth.
 
Rydon said:
casainho said:
Finally I got Bafang 850C LCD working!!!
Yay!!! Awesome! Way to go!

I have TSDZ2 working with the 850C already. This will mean only needing to flash the new firmware with same cable setup. Can the 850C be flashed through the 5 pin higo connector or do you need to open it up?
Seems that original firmware includes a bootloader, because there is a Windows software provided by the manufacture that flash new firmware by the UART pins/wires that goes to the motor controller. The firmware file that is used to flash seems to be encrypted. I think there is no way to use the original bootloader, the system was designed to be like that, to be locked.

The only way is to do as we do with KT-LCD3, open the LCD, solder flash/debug pins and program/debug using STLinkV2.

I am now in the process to think and define how things/different screens will go to work. Like KT-LCD3, having a main screen and configuration screen. I found and tested some OpenSource libraries for GUIs and I choose the most advanced that I could put to working: https://embeddedlightning.com/ugui/ -- I think original firmware uses a more advanced GUI library, but may be some commercial one.

Now the challenge is to think how the menus can work/should be implemented using the GUI library objects that are kind of simple. I already know that an analog speed meter can be implemented with DrawARC and DrawLine objects...

Rydon said:
BTW, the 750C display is now shipping with Bluetooth.
Well, the good is that they seem to reuse the same software between models, I can see they use the same graphic elements on the GUI, so the hardware should be very similar if we decide to switch 750C with Bluetooth model. Maybe if we wait a bit more they will launch the 850C with Bluetooth model, as the 850C model is the most popular one.
 
Your opinion for color LCD screens/design

As I can implement everything, I would like to decide a path. Here are screenshots of different main screens of different original firmwares of Bafang 850C display.

What design do you guys prefer for the main screen??

1.


2.


3.


4.


As for configurations, I should go like this and seems all versions of original firmwares does like this. It is a clear improvement over configurations on KT-LCD3:
 
Back
Top